how many atheists live here now

allisbleak

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Shouldn't you try to convince them of your side first? And then if that fails, accept them for who they are?

I wouldn't be happy if my children became bible bashers, but I wouldn't disown them unless they started murdering abortion doctors.

There is no side here.

You can choose to believe the truth, or you can believe in a delusion.
No matter how much believing they do it is still not real.

If there was no religious congregation indoctrinating our childrens heads with this nonsense, then we wouldn't need to be discussing it here. Where else would kids learn this BS

ChocolateSauce

allisbleak wrote: »

If there was no religious congregation indoctrinating our childrens heads with this nonsense, then we wouldn't need to be discussing it here. Where else would kids learn this BS

Parents.

What are you gonna do, take kids away from their parents? How would you like it if the religious took an atheist's children because they weren't passing on faith?

dvpower

There isn't actually a question on the census that can count atheists accurately

Here's the 2006 form.

What is your religion?
(one box only)

• Roman Catholic
• Church of Ireland
• Presbyterian
• Methodist
• Islam
• Other, write in your RELIGION
• No Religion

So the question is about religion or lack of it, not about belief in God(s) or lack of.

One could believe in the existence of a God, but just choose not to follow him/her/it.
Or, you could be, say, a lapsed catholic, who believes in God but doesn't want to be associated with the RC church.

Daftendirekt

allisbleak wrote: »

There is no side here.

You can choose to believe the truth, or you can believe in a delusion.
No matter how much believing they do it is still not real.

Well, actually you can't 'choose' to believe anything. You can only be convinced or unconvinced of a proposition.

Turtwig

allisbleak wrote: »

There is no side here.

You can choose to believe the truth, or you can believe in a delusion.

Oh Brilliant! Perhaps you can enlighten us all here as to what the "truth" actually is?

bud1970

God bless atheisim.:P:P

*sorry i'll get me coat*

Turtwig

bud1970 wrote: »

God bless atheisim.:P:P

*sorry i'll get me coat*

Well I guess if the OP's sentiments are to believed and followed I should be grabbing my pitchfork right about now. Sorry bud.:(

ChocolateSauce

dvpower wrote: »

There isn't actually a question on the census that can count atheists accurately

Here's the 2006 form.



So the question is about religion or lack of it, not about belief in God(s) or lack of.

One could believe in the existence of a God, but just choose not to follow him/her/it.
Or, you could be, say, a lapsed catholic, who believes in God but doesn't want to be associated with the RC church.

It could be worse. In the old days the choices were "Catholic" "Protestant" and "Other".

Antbert

keano_afc wrote: »

The ironing is delicious.

Just to say... The irony/ironing isn't delicious. It's a commonly used colloquial term. It irritates me no end when people say "Atheists use the word 'God!' What ridiculous hypocrites!"

It's sort of like the equivalent of realising you're losing an Internet argument and so correct your opponent's grammar.

Turtwig

God God God
God God God
God God God.

3 Square God.

robindch

Malty_T wrote: »

3 Square God.

Thinking of Aimee Semple McPherson?

allisbleak

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Parents.

What are you gonna do, take kids away from their parents? How would you like it if the religious took an atheist's children because they weren't passing on faith?

Absolutely not.
Parents can teach as much fiction to their children as possible.

The difference will be that when they attend a secular school (which all schools will be soon), they will be educated about all other religions by the other kids with different or no religious backgrounds.

Daftendirekt wrote: »

Well, actually you can't 'choose' to believe anything. You can only be convinced or unconvinced of a proposition.

Would you be convinced of the historical accuracy of the bible.

Zillah

Antbert wrote: »

It's sort of like the equivalent of realising you're losing an Internet argument and so correct your opponent's grammar.

Point of information: I do this anyway.

Speaking of which:

bud1970 wrote: »

God bless atheisim.

Atheism. It's in the forum title and used about a thousand times per day around here.

MikeC101

allisbleak wrote: »

This is a cop out. Religion is a delusion. You cannot have it both ways.

I'm pretty sure I can.

allisbleak wrote: »

Children cannot tell the difference in teaching between an actual subject based on reality (maths or english) and fiction (religion or astrology) if they are thought both the same way from the age of 5.

And yet, despite going to a Catholic school, with the communion and the confessing and all the trimmings, I came to my own conclusions, due in no small part, I think, to my parents encouraging me to read widely and providing access to encyclopedias / childrens science books, etc..

I'm happy my own (hypothetical) kids can do the same.

I'd also point out that the above is in the context of having a partner who wished to raise the kids in a certain religion. Otherwise it'd be a secular school, if at all possible.

Antbert

MikeC101 wrote: »

And yet, despite going to a Catholic school, with the communion and the confessing and all the trimmings, I came to my own conclusions, due in no small part, I think, to my parents encouraging me to read widely and providing access to encyclopedias / childrens science books, etc..

That's you though. I'd be very surprised if the majority of children even give it that much thought.

I think it's silly for children to HAVE to fight against something in order to make their own mind up.

But I've written about one million posts on secular schools and now find the subject boring.

Lazare

*MOD NOTE*

-- Snipped to avoid further action. Folks if you have issues with other users use the "report post" function. --

Dades

Daftendirekt

allisbleak wrote: »

Would you be convinced of the historical accuracy of the bible.

No?

Rb

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Shouldn't you try to convince them of your side first? And then if that fails, accept them for who they are?

I wouldn't be happy if my children became bible bashers, but I wouldn't disown them unless they started murdering abortion doctors.

If/when I have children, I hope to show them the beauty of nature and introduce them to the science behind it, the story of the world around us and the universe that we are a part of. I hope to do this from a very early age so they can have the maximum amount of time to appreciate how absolutely amazing the life we live is.

If they then, having received an education on how things have came to be, how things work, then go ahead and dismiss it as the work of a super-man in the sky and start believing that we should live our lives according to the words of men who lived in caves and huts 2000 years ago in order to please this sky God, so that we get into a new dimension that no evidence exists for nor ever will so that we don't actually "die", I will genuinely be so horrified that I would probably never forgive them.

I do intend on keeping the anti-theism in the household to a minimum though, to discourage rebellion in later years, however I'm sure I'll remain quite condescending about any friends or other students they know that are open believers.

It'd be a worse reaction than a catholic family finding out their child had converted to Islam

eoin5

Rb wrote: »

If/when I have children, I hope to show them the beauty of nature and introduce them to the science behind it, the story of the world around us and the universe that we are a part of. I hope to do this from a very early age so they can have the maximum amount of time to appreciate how absolutely amazing the life we live is.

If they then, having received an education on how things have came to be, how things work, then go ahead and dismiss it as the work of a super-man in the sky and start believing that we should live our lives according to the words of men who lived in caves and huts 2000 years ago in order to please this sky God, so that we get into a new dimension that no evidence exists for nor ever will so that we don't actually "die", I will genuinely be so horrified that I would probably never forgive them.

I do intend on keeping the anti-theism in the household to a minimum though, to discourage rebellion in later years, however I'm sure I'll remain quite condescending about any friends or other students they know that are open believers.

It'd be a worse reaction than a catholic family finding out their child had converted to Islam

Being condescending towards your child's friends sounds like you'd be giving them a reason to hate you. Chances are that theyll have plenty of openly religious friends. Good luck with that.

GLaDOS

Brought up the subject of the census at dinner today with my family, general reaction was that they're gonna put Catholic down despite not practising at all. I made my arguments as to why they shouldn't but generally they didn't see it as something particularly important, my sister was the only one who really considered my point of view (I'm the youngest btw)

Have to confess I was somewhat surprised, but I guess some people just don't care.

Rb

eoin5 wrote: »

Being condescending towards your child's friends sounds like you'd be giving them a reason to hate you. Chances are that theyll have plenty of openly religious friends. Good luck with that.

Doubt it, all it requires is instilling the belief that the notion of an all-seeing, all-knowing super deity is ridiculous (rightly so) and that belief in said deity is merely an emotional crutch at best.

eoin5

Rb wrote: »

Doubt it, all it requires is instilling the belief that the notion of an all-seeing, all-knowing super deity is ridiculous (rightly so) and that belief in said deity is merely an emotional crutch at best.

You just believe that everything will be fine if you do that with no evidence or guarantee. Its a hypocritical standpoint no?

Lemegeton

Biggins wrote: »

You won't get a very accurate figure.
Some will still put down "Catholic" on the next national census for a number of reasons including stigma, saving face, family history, etc...

funny story about that. i checked into hospital for a day last year and when asked for religion i said atheist and there was a nun checking into the same day ward as me and she actually requested that i be moved to another room. which i was. they moved me into another room on my own. LMAO.
its so pathetic.

Dades

^^ Must remember that next time to score a private room. Result!

Was there a crucifix shaped bit of paint on the wall above you head where the cross had been removed?

Lemegeton

Dades wrote: »

^^ Must remember that next time to score a private room. Result!

Was there a crucifix shaped bit of paint on the wall above you head where the cross had been removed?

lol no, not that i noticed

ChocolateSauce

Lemegeton wrote: »

funny story about that. i checked into hospital for a day last year and when asked for religion i said atheist and there was a nun checking into the same day ward as me and she actually requested that i be moved to another room. which i was. they moved me into another room on my own. LMAO.
its so pathetic.

The perk of having your own room beside the point, this is blatant anti-atheist discrimination. They wouldn't move a blackman because the nun was racist, they wouldn't remove Donegalfella because Joe Higgins was his roomie, and they shouldn't remove an atheist because a nun doesn't like atheism.

I'd have demanded they move her instead, if the room was not to her liking.

Lemegeton

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

The perk of having your own room beside the point, this is blatant anti-atheist discrimination. They wouldn't move a blackman because the nun was racist, they wouldn't remove Donegalfella because Joe Higgins was his roomie, and they shouldn't remove an atheist because a nun doesn't like atheism.

I'd have demanded they move her instead, if the room was not to her liking.

at the time my main concern was what i was in hospital for so i didnt make a big deal out of it.

Galvasean

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

The perk of having your own room beside the point, this is blatant anti-atheist discrimination. They wouldn't move a blackman because the nun was racist, they wouldn't remove Donegalfella because Joe Higgins was his roomie, and they shouldn't remove an atheist because a nun doesn't like atheism.

I'd have demanded they move her instead, if the room was not to her liking.

Or started hissing and spinning your head around whilst quickly crawling around the room on all fours, periodically flicking your tongue out like a lizard.

That'd learn 'em.

Rb

eoin5 wrote: »

You just believe that everything will be fine if you do that with no evidence or guarantee. Its a hypocritical standpoint no?

Not quite. The environment a child is brought up in, including beliefs/non-beliefs passed down by the parents, tend to stick with the kid for life in some stength or another.

Evidence of this is religion in itself, along with attitudes such as racism. Though the child may "grow out" of some beliefs/attitudes such as racism, when push comes to shove it's quite often still there in some form.

I'm just going by what I observe as human nature and the nature of families, however if it should be different by the time my own sprogs roll around I'll deal with it then.

eoin5

Rb wrote: »

Not quite. The environment a child is brought up in, including beliefs/non-beliefs passed down by the parents, tend to stick with the kid for life in some stength or another.

Evidence of this is religion in itself, along with attitudes such as racism. Though the child may "grow out" of some beliefs/attitudes such as racism, when push comes to shove it's quite often still there in some form.

I'm just going by what I observe as human nature and the nature of families, however if it should be different by the time my own sprogs roll around I'll deal with it then.

I think that's a bit of a weak explanation. Sure kids will follow in their parents paths but when the teens hit and you start looking down on your kids friends because of their creed you'll have no chance in getting them to believe what you want them to. The'd probably join up just to spite you, as per human nature.

aidan24326

allisbleak wrote: »

I would love to know how many atheists live here now.

Its gotta be more than 20% of the population. I have never seen more written against the church and its followers than in the last year.

As Dades mentioned in an earlier post someone can take issue with the Catholic Church as an organisation while still retaining their catholic faith. And the same goes for any religion. I'm sure there plenty of decent moderate muslims who hate the fundamentalist wing that has emerged, but it still doesn't stop them believing in Islamic doctrine, Allah etc

Rb

eoin5 wrote: »

I think that's a bit of a weak explanation. Sure kids will follow in their parents paths but when the teens hit and you start looking down on your kids friends because of their creed you'll have no chance in getting them to believe what you want them to. The'd probably join up just to spite you, as per human nature.

Ah yeah but sure all kids go through rebellion. If they go through a Goth phase I'll have a chuckle and await them to grow out of it, if they decide to start worshipping a non-existent God I'll have a chuckle and wait until they realise what an arse they're making of themselves.

I don't mean I'll lambast their friends btw, I'll just be (extremely) dismissing/condescending if the subject of their religion is brought up. Nothing like "Isn't your friend Jimmy such a fat little retard?"

Also, you may think it's a weak explanation but it holds true for the overwhelming majority.

eoin5

Rb wrote: »

Also, you may think it's a weak explanation but it holds true for the overwhelming majority.

I also think the vast majority are as nice to their kids friends as possible unless they think they're trouble. There's good reasons for that as I mentioned before. Kids dont get over everything you know.

Anyways their friends are people too. I think they would deserve more respect than someone being condescending to them as a matter of principle, whats wrong with just giving your views and having a discussion with them? Bein all nice loike.