Galway-Limerick intermediate timetable

Victor

Did someone have a timetable for the intermediate stations from Galway-Limerick? I know that Galway, Athenry and Ennis-Limerick are listed publicly.

KC61

Monday to Saturday

Galway to Limerick


Dep Galway 06.40 09.45 12.10 14.30 17.25

Arr Athenry 06.53 09.58 12.23 14.43 17.38

Dep Athenry 06.56 10.03 12.26 14.46 17.41

Dep Craughwell 07.05 10.12 12.35 14.55 17.50

Dep Ardrahan 07.17 10.24 12.47 15.07 18.02

Dep Gort 07.32 10.41 13.01 15.21 18.14

Arr Ennis 07.59 11.08 13.28 15.48 18.41

Dep Ennis 08.00 11.08 13.28 15.48 18.44

Dep Sixmilebridge 08.17 11.26 13.46 16.06 19.01

Arr Limerick 08.39 11.48 14.08 16.28 19.24



Monday to Saturday

Limerick to Galway


Dep Limerick 06.00 09.35 11.55 14.15 18.05

Dep Sixmilebridge 06.21 09.56 12.16 14.36 18.26

Arr Ennis 06.40 10.14 12.34 14.54 18.44

Dep Ennis 07.05 10.14 12.34 14.54 18.44

Dep Gort 07.33 10.41 13.01 15.21 19.11

Dep Ardrahan 07.43 10.51 13.11 15.31 19.21

Dep Craughwell 07.54 11.02 13.22 15.42 19.32

Arr Athenry 08.05 11.12 13.32 15.52 19.42

Dep Athenry 08.08 11.19 13.35 15.56 19.45

Arr Galway 08.25 11.34 13.51 16.13 20.00


Sunday
Galway to Limerick

Dep Galway 08.25 12.05 16.25 18.40

Arr Athenry 08.38 12.18 16.38 18.53

Dep Athenry 08.41 12.21 16.41 18.57

Dep Craughwell 08.50 12.30 16.50 19.06

Dep Ardrahan 09.02 12.42 17.02 19.18

Dep Gort 09.14 12.54 17.16 19.36

Arr Ennis 09.41 13.21 17.43 20.03

Dep Ennis 09.41 13.21 17.43 20.03

Dep Sixmilebridge 09.59 13.39 18.01 20.21

Arr Limerick 10.23 14.02 18.24 20.43

Sunday
Limerick to Galway


Dep Limerick 09.00 12.40 16.10 18.30

Dep Sixmilebridge 09.21 13.01 16.31 18.51

Arr Ennis 09.39 13.19 16.49 19.09

Dep Ennis 09.41 13.21 16.49 19.09

Dep Gort 10.09 13.49 17.16 19.36

Dep Ardrahan 10.18 13.58 17.26 19.46

Dep Craughwell 10.29 14.09 17.37 19.57

Arr Athenry 10.40 14.20 17.47 20.07

Dep Athenry 10.42 14.22 17.50 20.10

Arr Galway 10.59 14.39 18.09 20.25

dowlingm

Can someone (KC61 or others) give plausible reasons why Ryanair can turn an 189 seat aircraft in 25 minutes but it looks like it takes IE an hour to turn a couple of 2700s? Or is it simply a case of the long single track sections into Limerick and Galway killing the ability to run high frequency service?

KC61

dowlingm wrote: »

Can someone (KC61 or others) give plausible reasons why Ryanair can turn an 189 seat aircraft in 25 minutes but it looks like it takes IE an hour to turn a couple of 2700s? Or is it simply a case of the long single track sections into Limerick and Galway killing the ability to run high frequency service?

Scheduling these services is not straightforward as it has to fit in around the Dublin/Galway trains between Athenry and Galway and also local Limerick/Ennis services that connect with Dublin services at Limerick.

Coupled with a 40 minute section between Limerick and Ennis it means that it is very tricky to schedule - especially if you want to try to factor in connections at Limerick Junction which IE have not really done well at all.

Bogger77

Monday to Saturday
Arr Limerick **. 08.39 *11.48 *14.08 *16.28 *19.24
Dep Limerick *06.00 *09.35 *11.55 *14.15 *18.05
Turn Time**. 00:55*00:07*00:07*01:13

Arr Galway **. 08.25 *11.34 *13.51 *16.13 2*0.00
Dep Galway. *06.40. *09.45 *12.10 *14.30 *17.25
Turn Time**. 01:25*00:36*00:39*01:12

Formatting is off, but turn around varies from 7 mins to 90mins. I guess it depends on customer demand. If they have to, they can have train ready in 7mins, I've yet to see trains on constant loop between terminii, either in Ireland, UK or France. It's not Transport Tycoon, customer demand has peaks and lows during the day.

KC61

Add to that I am assuming that a decision was made to only operate 5 trains per day.

Victor

I imagine the turn time relates more to driver / staff rostering and breaks than anything.

dowlingm

@KC61 I thought Sixmilebridge was going to have a passing loop to break the section? Or is that to follow later, in the Midleton tradition of open the line and close it again to do the signalling?

KC61

dowlingm wrote: »

@KC61 I thought Sixmilebridge was going to have a passing loop to break the section? Or is that to follow later, in the Midleton tradition of open the line and close it again to do the signalling?

It will form part of the Limerick resignalling project.

mysterious

They need to make a non stop line to avoid Athenry and go straight towards Galway.

Is the line fairly straight and comfortable?

dowlingm

KC61 wrote: »

It will form part of the Limerick resignalling project.

Ah - I thought they weren't going to reopen SMB until that was resolved. The Midleton method so!

mysterious - if you build a direct curve that's just going to annoy people in Athenry for no real benefit to travellers ex Limerick because instead of waiting in Athenry they will be waiting at the junction west of Athenry. As for a new 18km alignment from Kiltartan to Oranmore parallelling the N18...

That's why the WRC makes no sense as a commuter route to Galway as it runs away from the direction of travel north of Kiltartan. It makes sense solely as an intercity route and only then if it's fast and not stopping every five minutes.

I was looking again in Google Earth at the alignment and station spacing from Limerick through to Galway - how two stations between Gort and Athenry got approved eludes me, especially since they have no passing loops either so they're not even good for that. Who sat up in an IE meeting or a DofT meeting and said "we're going with Ardrahan and Craughwell"? I think the public should know that guy's name.

Judgement Day

mysterious wrote: »

They need to make a non stop line to avoid Athenry and go straight towards Galway.

Is the line fairly straight and comfortable?

It's a while since I had a look round at Athenry but judging from the satellite image here http://www.maplandia.com/ireland/west/galway/athenry/

a direct curve to the Galway line (in the Galway direction) would seem possible. However, would it be worthwhile? I doubt it given that another station serving Athenry would then be needed. We should not get hung up on the driver having to change ends of a two-piece railcar at Athenry - 1/2 mins maximum will make little difference to the journey time.

Cool Mo D

Judgement Day wrote: »

It's a while since I had a look round at Athenry but judging from the satellite image here http://www.maplandia.com/ireland/west/galway/athenry/

a direct curve to the Galway line (in the Galway direction) would seem possible. However, would it be worthwhile? I doubt it given that another station serving Athenry would then be needed. We should not get hung up on the driver having to change ends of a two-piece railcar at Athenry - 1/2 mins maximum will make little difference to the journey time.

Why bother stop in Athenry at all? If the train called at Limerick - Ennis -Gort - Galway, maybe there'd be some prospect of a journey time of around 90 minutes.

Carawaystick

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Why bother stop in Athenry at all? If the train called at Limerick - Ennis -Gort - Galway, maybe there'd be some prospect of a journey time of around 90 minutes.

you need to stop so you can go backwards. The driver will change ends in Athenry, as there is no direct way from the Galway-> Athlone line to the Athenry line.

It already takes 40 mins to get to Ennis from Limerick. I doubt it's going to be possible to get to Galway in 50 mins, bearing in mind it takes 18 mins from Athenry to Galway as it is.
So you've got 32 mins to get from Ennis to Athenry.....

FlameoftheWest

dowlingm wrote: »

Can someone (KC61 or others) give plausible reasons why Ryanair can turn an 189 seat aircraft in 25 minutes but it looks like it takes IE an hour to turn a couple of 2700s?

"Partnership"?

FlameoftheWest

KC61 wrote: »

It will form part of the Limerick resignalling project.

When I read your post I did some googling and research on this.

The "Limerick resignalling project" has been on the cards for 10 years now! Why was this not undertaken before reopening the Ennis-Athenry joke?

KC61

One word - money!

There were other projects over the last 10 years that probably were deemed to be more important and more urgent.

Victor

And you didn't need a particularly complicated signalling system when there was only ever one train on the section of train between Limerick Check and Ennis.

dowlingm

Athenry is a stop worth making for people in Gort because once in a while a Dublin train might not actually be on a completely wrong schedule to connect with. Hopefully some bits of passing track between Galway and Athlone might make that more likely over time.

As for the signalling money, this is where IE are fail. They should have costed the signalling as part of the WRC rebuild and insisted that it could not proceed without it.

Dowlingm, passing loops are at Woodlawn and Ballinasloe, if that's any good to you. What effect are you hoping for?

(Off-topic: wondering if it's time there was a dedicated rail forum. Will post in forum requests after work today.)

Just a sec...

Dowlingm, going right back to the third post here, what has ryanair turnaround times on a busy route got in common with an irish city station platform?

Would you not be better comparing a rail service turnaround? What's typical in Ontario?

FlameoftheWest

Deleted User wrote: »

Just a sec...

Dowlingm, going right back to the third post here, what has ryanair turnaround times on a busy route got in common with an irish city station platform?

Would you not be better comparing a rail service turnaround? What's typical in Ontario?

There are dead stations at on the Moscow Metro. Turnaround is in seconds. A driver waits at the other end of the platfrom and gets in when the arriving driver gets out.

KC61

There are other factors here:
1) Driver rosters and the legal requirement to have a break after a certain number of hours- I would imagine that two journeys (being almost 4 hours) would be pushing that limit.
2) Availability of paths - the entire journey is single line track
3) Whether the company wanted to have a service in excess of five trains per day - I am guessing that they did not.

Thankee k61, that'll do me.

mysterious

They could still run trains to Athenry, or put extra facilties at the Craughwell stop, to allow Athenry, Dublin changes to move swiftly. Craughwell station is only a few miles from Athenry station anyway.


The direct curve can easily be built, Infact it would make the Limerick to Galway service more profitable. The reason why people don't use these trains, is because they are slow and more inconvenient than getting there by car.

Judgement Day

mysterious wrote: »

They could still run trains to Athenry, or put extra facilties at the Craughwell stop, to allow Athenry, Dublin changes to move swiftly. Craughwell station is only a few miles from Athenry station anyway.


The direct curve can easily be built, Infact it would make the Limerick to Galway service more profitable. The reason why people don't use these trains, is because they are slow and more inconvenient than getting there by car.

Hello! How is a massive loss making service going to be made more 'profitable'. The Luas is the only rail service in the country that more than covers its operating costs AFAIK.

dowlingm

seaslacker, I was actually thinking more of the Athenry-Galway stretch but don't have access to a track diagram so didn't know about the other loops.

I obviously don't want IE to run unsafely, but airlines also have tough rest rules and are dependent on slots. How long can a crew go for under Irish rules? Tralee-Dublin no-change is scheduled for 3h55m.

From what I hear federal rail rules in Canada let crews work crazy long hours - not sure I'd want to bring that aspect over to Ireland but given our distances I don't think it's necessary in the way it is in Canada.

Here's the thing - a train idling in a station is a train losing money. If crew limits are causing delays, you have to run the numbers on spare crews but it seems to me that this service is being incepted without sufficient track and signal capacity, and talking about stuff like skipping a major town like Athenry isn't the way to solve it.

We need a loop at Oranmore and a start on a station, we need a loop at Sixmilebridge and the resolution of the Limerick signalling (which presumably will help Nenagh/LJ too?), and until all of those are done there are substantial impediments to making this service competitive.

Edit: is it possible that IE have permitted encroachment on the alignment here

Sorry dowlingm, leaving out athenry was an oversight on my part, rest of points taken.

Chris_5339762

dowlingm wrote: »

the alignment here

Why in heavens name is Clarinbridge Pharmacy listed as being in the middle of Lough Atalia? :eek:

KC61

dowlingm wrote: »

seaslacker, I was actually thinking more of the Athenry-Galway stretch but don't have access to a track diagram so didn't know about the other loops.

I obviously don't want IE to run unsafely, but airlines also have tough rest rules and are dependent on slots. How long can a crew go for under Irish rules? Tralee-Dublin no-change is scheduled for 3h55m.

From what I hear federal rail rules in Canada let crews work crazy long hours - not sure I'd want to bring that aspect over to Ireland but given our distances I don't think it's necessary in the way it is in Canada.

Here's the thing - a train idling in a station is a train losing money. If crew limits are causing delays, you have to run the numbers on spare crews but it seems to me that this service is being incepted without sufficient track and signal capacity, and talking about stuff like skipping a major town like Athenry isn't the way to solve it.

We need a loop at Oranmore and a start on a station, we need a loop at Sixmilebridge and the resolution of the Limerick signalling (which presumably will help Nenagh/LJ too?), and until all of those are done there are substantial impediments to making this service competitive.

Edit: is it possible that IE have permitted encroachment on the alignment here

Dublin or Tralee traincrews do not work all the way through. They generally change at Mallow where there are also drivers based.

Dublin/Sligo (3 hours) would probably be the longest through working of any traincrew.

There is a trade-off here - there are not huge numbers of train drivers sitting around available and at the end of the day you have to operate it as efficiently as possible.

I would certainly agree that talk of avoiding Athenry is daft - that is where a reasonable number of customers will join the trains, and avoiding lines are not going to happen. These services will also be Athenry/Galway commuter services.

At present there is a loop outside Galway station and an intermediate signal between Galway and Athenry allowing two trains going in the same direction to operate in the section.

There is also an intermediate signal between Ennis and Limerick.

The resignalling at Limerick is one of the remaining large projects, along with the resignalling and remodelling of Limerick Junction. I suspect though that it may have to wait for the Cobh line resignalling to be completed first.

Carawaystick

KC61 wrote: »

Dublin/Sligo (3 hours) would probably be the longest through working of any traincrew.

Cork/Dublin's 3 hours or was last time I went in January

Mysterious wrote:

The reason why people don't use these trains, is because they are slow and more inconvenient than getting there by car.

It's also slower, less convenient and probably dearer than any of the bus services. And it stops for a few months if it rains......

And the bus is only going to get faster, when Gort Barefield M18 opens

dowlingm

Informative as always KC61- many thanks.