Female: starting off with weights

funlovintapir

Hi, I've enjoyed reading through some of the old posts here.

I'm a 23 year old female, 65kg, 5ft 2. My body fat is 35.5%, so, as evident from that, I have never gone to the gym, the woman at the gym said it was awful.
I joined last week and I was given this routine on the machines:

Adductor: 25kg, 3 x 20
Fly: 5kg, 3 x 20
Row/Rear Deltoid: 5kg, 3 x 20
Abdominal: 15kg, 3 x 20

I know I've only been doing it a week, but the weights feel very light. I'm a little bit sore after them, but they are nowhere near as heavy as I could lift if I had to. I was just wondering am I supposed to be lifting light weights, or am I lifting the wrong ones. Should I try to lift the heaviest I can, or am I supposed to give it a few weeks on really light ones first.

My biggest fear is that I'm wasting my time lifting tiny little weights that to me look like a bar of chocolate moving up and down in the machine, and won't do anything for me. (I am trying to lose weight and tone myself a bit. )

legend365

If you want to lose weight - eat right + do cardio.

If you want to tone - lift heavy.

I think you should do one before the other, thats my opinion though nothing scientific.

Brian?

funlovintapir wrote: »

My biggest fear is that I'm wasting my time lifting tiny little weights that to me look like a bar of chocolate moving up and down in the machine, and won't do anything for me. (I am trying to lose weight and tone myself a bit. )

You're dead right to be afraid of that, it is wasting time. If the weight feels too light, lift heavier. Aim for 8 reps, if you can do 3 sets of 8 easily add more weight next time.

cmyk

funlovintapir wrote: »

I'm a 23 year old female, 65kg, 5ft 2. My body fat is 35.5%, so, as evident from that, I have never gone to the gym, the woman at the gym said it was awful.

Wow, I don't know why at this stage, but I'm constantly shocked at the standard of gyms and their dealing with clients when people post things like this.

funlovintapir wrote: »

I joined last week and I was given this routine on the machines:
Adductor: 25kg, 3 x 20
Fly: 5kg, 3 x 20
Row/Rear Deltoid: 5kg, 3 x 20
Abdominal: 15kg, 3 x 20

As briankeating said above, your routine should be challenging, is that the extent of the programme she gave you? Did she discuss nutrition at all?

funlovintapir

She wasn't great. I'm also doing cardio, but I've upped that because it was too easy. I'm doing
20 mins on the bike
30 mins on the stepper
30 mins on the treadmill
burning about 400 calories from those combined, 5 days a week, and i feel very tired after that. i'm eating about 1500 calories a day, i think my eating plan is ok, its just the weights i'm apprehensive about.
i dont want to get injured by going too heavy for myself, i dont know if you're supposed to take your first few weeks with the lightest ones and then move up, just to get used to it.

Ciaran500

funlovintapir wrote: »

burning about 400 calories from those combined, 5 days a week, and i feel very tired after that. i'm eating about 1500 calories a day, i think my eating plan is ok, its just the weights i'm apprehensive about.
i dont want to get injured by going too heavy for myself, i dont know if you're supposed to take your first few weeks with the lightest ones and then move up, just to get used to it.

Are you hitting the same muscles in the gym 5 days a week?

funlovintapir

yeah, the same machines i posted above. i've been doing about 2 hours each day.

is there a chance she might have measured my body fat percentage wrong? i mean, thats obese, and i'm definitely not. i'm not that fat even, i was 8 stone always until last year, went on antidepressants for about 6 months, gained 3 stone. rubbish

Chet Zar

funlovintapir wrote: »

yeah, the same machines i posted above. i've been doing about 2 hours each day.

is there a chance she might have measured my body fat percentage wrong? i mean, thats obese, and i'm definitely not. i'm not that fat even, i was 8 stone always until last year, went on antidepressants for about 6 months, gained 3 stone. rubbish

Your instructor sounds like a complete tool, what was she trying to gain telling you your weight is awful first off, and then the programme she gave you is an absolute disgrace, I don't even know where to start! Man alive.

Start with the freeweights, and try and find a knowledgeable instructor in your gym to show you how to do them (or check reliable vids online).

Bench press
Squats
Lunges
Reverse ab curls
Shoulder press
Push ups
Dumbbell rows

..are all great exercises that will get you great results.

Keep asking questions.

cmyk

funlovintapir wrote: »

yeah, the same machines i posted above. i've been doing about 2 hours each day.

is there a chance she might have measured my body fat percentage wrong? i mean, thats obese, and i'm definitely not. i'm not that fat even, i was 8 stone always until last year, went on antidepressants for about 6 months, gained 3 stone. rubbish

It's quite possible she has measured you wrong.

You are right to start relatively light and concentrate on form, especially if you've never trained before, ease into it.

There are also more productive/effective ways to burn 400cals (take the machines reading with a pinch of salt) than spending an 1hr20min on the cardio machines. You must be spending nearly 2hrs in the gym each session?

An honest recommendation is to do a couple of sessions with a decent trainer who'll get you better results over a shorter amount of time.

funlovintapir

thanks for that. could you please tell me what would you consider a better way of burning 400 calories in the gym?
time is not an issue for me. i would like to run but i get too tired within a few minutes, hoping to build myself up to a level of fitness where i can run without getting heartburn and feeling faint. i find by taking time i can get the most calories out of the machines that i use, but if there are better machines or ways to burn it i would find it very helpful.

legend365

Well the whole point is to be exhausted by the end.

That is how you get fitter.

funlovintapir

i know that. but not to the point where you feel dizzy, thats just stupid.

d'Oracle

legend365 wrote: »

If you want to lose weight - eat right + do cardio.

If you want to tone - lift heavy.

Can you define that term?

funlovintapir

me or him? by tone, i mean "firm and healthy" or - lose weight without looking like an empty plastic bag.

injured365

d'Oracle wrote: »

Can you define that term?

Tone (literature), in grammar the manner in which the author uses words to convey a mood
Tone (linguistics), the pitch and pitch changes in words of certain languages

cmyk

funlovintapir wrote: »

i find by taking time i can get the most calories out of the machines that i use.

I'm not sure what you mean by this bit?

Well it really depends on your goals, if you're goals are purely fat/weight loss and to increase your metabolism then steady state cardio is probably not the most effective route. However if you enjoy running and want to improve your running then stick with that and maybe take a look at, and throw in some interval training. (You'll get plenty of info/workouts if you just google that)

Someone posted a basic running plan here a few weeks ago if you search within this forum you should get it, but i'll let someone with more experience in running help you with that.

d'Oracle

funlovintapir wrote: »

me or him? by tone, i mean "firm and healthy" or - lose weight without looking like an empty plastic bag.

Him, but if it helps, your definition doesn't make any sense in this context.

d'Oracle

injured365 wrote: »

Tone (literature), in grammar the manner in which the author uses words to convey a mood
Tone (linguistics), the pitch and pitch changes in words of certain languages

You could also add a musical definition, but none of the three have any relevance to the post.

What does tone mean with relation to the body and fitness?

I ask because I think its a BS term, which is usually bandied around in relation to the complete opposite of what the poster posted. If we excuse the fact that it means largely nothing that still puts the original post at loggeheads with what I have seen to be the established usage.

Oryx

You joined last week and have gone five days.. do you think youll maintain that long term without getting bored? I know I couldnt. And I would vary what you do each day. Concentrate on weights one day, cardio the next. Personally Id prefer to go longer say, running and leave out some of the other cardio for certain workouts. Does your gym offer spinning classes etc? Youll always push harder in a class environment.

Well done on a good start, but maybe work out a more varied plan or youll have trouble sticking with it.

injured365

d'Oracle wrote: »

You could also add a musical definition, but none of the three have any relevance to your post.

What does tone mean with relation to the body and fitness?

I ask because I think its a BS term, which is usually bandied around in relation to the complete opposite of what you posted. If we excuse the fact that it means largely nothing that still puts your post at loggeheads with what I have seen to be the established usage.

Hey the original post wasnt mine buddy!! :eek::eek:

funlovintapir

why don't you say what it really means then instead of enjoying pointing out how people are wrong.

i want to build enough muscle so i dont look like a sack of **** when i lose weight. i dont want to look like this
http://nynerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/body_builder_chick_6.jpg

d'Oracle

injured365 wrote: »

Hey the original post wasnt mine buddy!! :eek::eek:

Right indeed.
Sorry.

Fecking 365.......

Better edit that up a bit.

Edit: Hows that?

Oryx

funlovin, no amount of weights in the gym (on their own) will have you looking like that... Dont be afraid of weights. Youd be surprised how heavy you have to go to get visible muscle. I remember someone here saying if you could bulk with light weights all shelf stackers in tesco would be musclebound.

injured365

d'Oracle wrote: »

Right indeed.
Sorry.

Fecking 365.......

Better edit that up a bit.

Edit: Hows that?

Beautiful!!

d'Oracle

funlovintapir wrote: »

why don't you say what it really means then instead of enjoying pointing out how people are wrong.

Because it doesn't bloody mean anything, or more likely it seems to mean doing two things at once.

funlovintapir wrote: »

i want to build enough muscle so i dont look like a sack of **** when i lose weight. i dont want to look like this
http://nynerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/body_builder_chick_6.jpg

You won't, ever, and if you think you will you need to go and do some reading.

Start here: http://www.stumptuous.com/lies-in-the-gym

cmyk

funlovintapir wrote: »

i want to build enough muscle so i dont look like a sack of **** when i lose weight. i dont want to look like this
http://nynerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/body_builder_chick_6.jpg

That's fine, it's a common view shared by a lot of girls/women out there that tend to avoid resistance training. In order for you to look like that you'd need to be taking a lot more than food. The benefits of resistance training for women are huge...You'll lose body fat, get stronger, help your posture, strengthen your bones to name a few.

g'em

funlovintapir wrote: »

i want to build enough muscle so i dont look like a sack of **** when i lose weight. i dont want to look like this
http://nynerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/body_builder_chick_6.jpg

you will never look like that unless you take a phenomenal amount of steroids. And I mean humongous amounts.

You need to lift heavy with lower reps. Free weights, not machines. Lift so that you can barely finish 8 reps (but with good form). Don't rest too long between sets and keep the intensity up. Do exercises for your legs (squats and lunges) your back (rows, pull-ups and deadlifts) shoulders and arms (curls, raises and push ups)*

Supplement your resistance training with cardio that complements it - something like Crossfit is really good, or interval training. Banging away on the treadmill for 40 minutes will do little or nothing. Your diet will also be very important to help you achieve your goals.


*after many years of self-experimentation and watching other girls go through similar I'm actually of the opinion that where aesthetics are concerned girls really don't need to do much chest work, it's one area that we can get a little bit "bulky" if you're prone to it. Needless to say you have to make sure you do plenty of mobility and pre-hab shoulder work to offset any imbalances though, and bodyweight work like push ups or even weighted push ups will give you plenty of chest training.

funlovintapir

thanks to you all for replying anyway. i think i'll just up the weights to the next setting and then get someone to show me how to use the free weights in a week or two.

i don't really think i'll end up looking like that photo if i do heavier weights, it was sort of a joke

thanks again

funlovintapir

g'em wrote: »

you will never look like that unless you take a phenomenal amount of steroids. And I mean humongous amounts.

You need to lift heavy with lower reps. Free weights, not machines. Lift so that you can barely finish 8 reps (but with good form). Don't rest too long between sets and keep the intensity up. Do exercises for your legs (squats and lunges) your back (rows, pull-ups and deadlifts) shoulders and arms (curls, raises and push ups)*

Supplement your resistance training with cardio that complements it - something like Crossfit is really good, or interval training. Banging away on the treadmill for 40 minutes will do little or nothing. Your diet will also be very important to help you achieve your goals.


Thanks for that. I will try the interval training. since you seem to know a bit about it, what do you mean by saying 40 minutes on the treadmill will do little or nothing? if so, what is its purpose. if i walk on the fat burn setting for 40 minutes, surely it is doing something.

groovyg

I think you just set yourself a goal of doing some thing like running a 10k and achieving that goal as opposed to going to they gym five days and your ultimate goal is to lose weight and tone up. going every day for two hours - do you think you can keep that up for the next 6 months? I know thats what happened to me when I first joined a gym joined for 6 months went every day for the first two months by the last month I think I manged to go about once a week.
I don't want to put you off going to the gym I think its a good plan for what you want to achieve but you might need to vary the routine each day and maybe set yourself a target of doing a 5 mile run or a 10k in six months time. Look up the athletics forum for a list of runs that are on. Also as Oryx said - if there are any classes on - go to them as well just to vary the routine and work out in a group ..at least then you are not alone going through the pain. Best of luck with it.

g'em

funlovintapir wrote: »

Thanks for that. I will try the interval training. since you seem to know a bit about it, what do you mean by saying 40 minutes on the treadmill will do little or nothing? if so, what is its purpose. if i walk on the fat burn setting for 40 minutes, surely it is doing something.

To really get your body to burn substantial calories on a treadmill you'd have to keep up quite a high, intense pace for 40 minutes. That's not really do-able for most beginners (and non-beginners, running for 5 minutes knackers me - I'm fit, but anaerobically so ) whereas you can get similar effects in much shorter time with interval training.

High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) does exactly what it says on the tin - you do short burst of really hard training with rest periods in between. This allows you to give each interval 85-95% and you work your socks of for it. Because it's a largely anaerobic form of exercise you'll also find that your metabolism is raised for longer afterwards, so you'll keep reaping the benefits.

There's also a practical reason - If you were to try and do long cardio sessions as well as decent weight training sessions you might get bored/ tired/ worn out very fast. But with HIIT you can do 2 short sharp sessions a week and still be able to give lifting your all.

And example of a HIIT would be very simply:
30 seconds running
1 minute fast walking.

Repeat 7-8 times. Simples

funlovintapir

g'em wrote: »

To really get your body to burn substantial calories on a treadmill you'd have to keep up quite a high, intense pace for 40 minutes. That's not really do-able for most beginners (and non-beginners, running for 5 minutes knackers me - I'm fit, but anaerobically so ) whereas you can get similar effects in much shorter time with interval training.

High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) does exactly what it says on the tin - you do short burst of really hard training with rest periods in between. This allows you to give each interval 85-95% and you work your socks of for it. Because it's a largely anaerobic form of exercise you'll also find that your metabolism is raised for longer afterwards, so you'll keep reaping the benefits.

There's also a practical reason - If you were to try and do long cardio sessions as well as decent weight training sessions you might get bored/ tired/ worn out very fast. But with HIIT you can do 2 short sharp sessions a week and still be able to give lifting your all.

And example of a HIIT would be very simply:
30 seconds running
1 minute fast walking.

Repeat 7-8 times. Simples

That definitely sounds do-able. I will start to try that next week instead of the treadmill. Thanks

legend365

d'Oracle wrote: »

Right indeed.
Sorry.

Fecking 365.......

Better edit that up a bit.

Edit: Hows that?

Yea because calling the term 'tone' BS is helping in any way.

OP sounds like you jst want to lose weight.

Edit: High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) is exactly what i was going to suggest.

You push yourself by little bits....not sprint for 10 minutes. Of course your going to collapse that way :P

d'Oracle

legend365 wrote: »

Yea because calling the term 'tone' BS is helping in any way.

Ah, so can you define the term?

I think it is helping.
Can you define "tone"? Is it a valid definition?
If not then it is BS and debunking it is helping a lot.

Oryx

g'em wrote: »

And example of a HIIT would be very simply:
30 seconds running
1 minute fast walking.

Repeat 7-8 times. Simples

Its only towards the last few you find how not simples it is.


And seconding the goal thing. Try to have a goal that is not simply x weight by x time.

funlovintapir

i take 'tone' to mean :
reduced body fat percentage plus building muscle, but on a scale where you are not noticeably muscle-y.

cmyk

d'Oracle wrote: »

If not then it is BS and debunking it is helping a lot.

It's not really helping...it's a moot point that's littered an advice thread with 9 or 10 posts. BS or not regulars here know what's meant when 'tone' is referenced on a fitness forum.

d'Oracle

funlovintapir wrote: »

i take 'tone' to mean :
reduced body fat percentage plus building muscle, but on a scale where you are not noticeably muscle-y.

Exactly.
Burning fat and building muscle are two different things.

The third bit is based on insecurities about stuff that just isn't true.

You can get stronger and build muscle, with out ever getting noticably muscle-y as you put it. In fact, you probably won't ever look "noticably mucscl-y. Most women who start to get stronger and build muscle will find that they just look better.

I'm not getting into the usual nonsense of posting pics of ladies in good shape and saying how hot they are, but it boils down to that.

You can reduce fat, hell there is a chance weight training will help, but they are not things that will happen at the same time because you lift a certain weight at a certain rep scheme.

Basically g'ems post says it all. She is strong and from what I have seen (I hope you don't mind me saying this g'em) she looks good. So she is coming from a solid frame of reference.

d'Oracle

cmyk wrote: »

It's not really helping...it's a moot point that's littered an advice thread with 9 or 10 posts. BS or not regulars here know what's meant when 'tone' is referenced on a fitness forum.

So you think its better that nothing was said and OP just lift heavy to tone?
You will note that OP has gotten some good advice and bad advice.
Its important to separate the two.

Yapamillias

+1 for interval training

lets not open up the 'toning' debate :rolleyes:

Barry.Oglesby

I think we all know the colloquialism "tone" and what people are referring to when they say they want it. When someone says they want to get sharper, do we say "ooh ooh ooh then do you mean you want to be pared with a knife until you're sharp? Do you?" We all know what the girl means.

OP the programme written for you sounds either lazy or ill informed. I would recommend educating yourself about your training and diet or investing in someone who already knows about how to get fitter and lose weight.

Start with the basics of nutrition, and then remember that any and all exercise and movement is good. Yes there are more efficient ways than what you've had written for you in the gym but I think the real sin is how dull the prgramme is. I wouldn't look forward to that programme and I doubt you do either. The walking would be much more fun outdoors, with a friend or your dog and an iPod, and the weights are almost pointless. You could, with a little discipline and research, achieve far better results at home yourself.

g'em

d'Oracle wrote: »

Basically g'ems post says it all. She is strong and from what I have seen (I hope you don't mind me saying this g'em) she looks good. So she is coming from a solid frame of reference.

Thank you

Much of this argument also comes down to just what kind of look a girl is going for. If she just wants to be slim then you can put more emphasis on the cardio/ diet aspect and lifting will just support it.

But if you want to actually look like you go to the gym and have some appreciable definition then you have to be prepared for a different tack. I think one of the hardest things here is that for girls (and for guys too but more so for girls) to get that 'toned' look (and in fairness we know what people are getting at when they say that) does somewhat require an initial phase where you have to risk getting a bit bigger.

When I started lifting I only lifted and did no cardio. I got very strong but I got quite big - some of it was muscle but much of it was fat and I was weighing in at 80kg. Then I kept lifting but went on a strict diet and did lots of cardio and I went down to 67kg and had a six-pack. Then I started eating again, stopped lifting for a summer while I went travelling, shot back up to 83kg and got fat. Proper fat

After a year or so of powerlifting and getting back to 80kg I swapped to Olympic lifting (more technique and explosive power involved, more intense) and got down to 75kg. Now I do Olympic lifting for 4-5 hours a week and Muay Thai for 3.5 hours a week and I'm 69kg and in the best shape I think I've ever been. My diet is better than it ever been but because I have good lean mass and I do a decent amount of cardio I get away with cheating fairly regularly. But I'm in good shape because I put in all the strength work at the beginning and my body is much better at handling what I throw at it now.

I'm not writing all of that as a miniature life story of g'em, but just to say that for girls, when it's that 'toned' look you're looking for, you may need to get a little bigger before you get smaller again - it's happened to a lot of girls I've seen who take up resistance training in an appreciable way (and by that I mean free weights and big lifts, not fannying around on machines). To get muscles you need to get strong. To get strong you need to eat more. When you eat more you get bigger. When you decide you have a decent level of muscle you can worry about leaning out.

And that's ok, it takes time to get a good figure, and it definitely doesn't happen overnight. The same is said for the guys too - look at powerlifters who slim down - they tend to have really, really great physiques because they concentrated first on gaining weight and secondarily on getting leaner.

Orlee

So why do the majority of gyms have weights machines?

Lifting is lifting no???

(duck and cover)

Sitric

Tone is not just a colloquialism, it's a perfectly acceptable physiological term referring to the tension or firmness of resting muscle

g'em

Orlee wrote: »

So why do the majority of gyms have weights machines?

Lifting is lifting no???

(duck and cover)

No need to duck, it's a very valid question!

When you use a machine you target one muscle group. Take a Chest press for example: when you push the machine out your pectorals are used.

But when you bench press a free barbell on a bench not only are you using your pecs but you use your shoulders, arms, and back to stabilise yourself - you increase coordination and kinesthetic awareness, essentially you're getting waaaay more bang for your buck.

But a lot of people are understandably intimidated by free weights and find machines much more approachable. It's not that they don't work, per se, but they far inferior to free weights.

Barry.Oglesby

Sitric wrote: »

Tone is not just a colloquialism, it's a perfectly acceptable physiological term referring to the tension or firmness of resting muscle

Not to be anal but that's Tonus.

d'Oracle

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I think we all know the colloquialism "tone" and what people are referring to when they say they want it. When someone says they want to get sharper, do we say "ooh ooh ooh then do you mean you want to be pared with a knife until you're sharp? Do you?" We all know what the girl means.

Before I walk away in disgust, I'd like to point out that OP didn't mention toned until after I took issue.
You could at least read the thread before you admonish me.

Barry.Oglesby

d'Oracle wrote: »

Before I walk away in disgust, I'd like to point out that OP didn't mention toned until after I took issue.
You could at least read the thread before you admonish me.

Admonish first, read later.

Assets Model

[*after many years of self-experimentation and watching other girls go through similar I'm actually of the opinion that where aesthetics are concerned girls really don't need to do much chest work, it's one area that we can get a little bit "bulky" if you're prone to it. Needless to say you have to make sure you do plenty of mobility and pre-hab shoulder work to offset any imbalances though, and bodyweight work like push ups or even weighted push ups will give you plenty of chest training. [/QUOTE]

Kind of off topic G'em but does doing push ups not incraese the size of your pecs and therefore your boobs? Which would be a good thing for me so i've been working on being able to do real push ups should I not bother?

Oh yeah OP i've been doing weights for 7 months now and I am looking more 'toned' even my fairly critical husband says so I've been eating better too for the most part cutting out junk food and bread and pasta. I'm getting a better shape with weights than I ever did with my stints of trying to get into running though I'm shrinking but maintaining my curves IYKWIM

g'em

Assets Model wrote: »

Kind of off topic G'em but does doing push ups not incraese the size of your pecs and therefore your boobs? Which would be a good thing for me so i've been working on being able to do real push ups should I not bother?

Well for me personally I've found that heavy chest work tends to bulk me around that area a bit - you know when you're wearing a bra and you get overspill over the top of it, like a reverse muffin top kinda thing?

But with bodyweight or weighted push ups, because you can do so many variations and work the shoulders/ arms as well as they chest I find that simply tighten everything up. When your pecs are tight, your boobs are perky *

Again, that's just me personally - I don't have big boobs by any means*, but they look good because there's no droopage, and I attribute that to simply keeping my chest relatively strong from bw work, not heavy weight work.



* I will ban anyone who says pics or gtfo.

g'em

Assets Model wrote: »

Oh yeah OP i've been doing weights for 7 months now and I am looking more 'toned' even my fairly critical husband says so I've been eating better too for the most part cutting out junk food and bread and pasta. I'm getting a better shape with weights than I ever did with my stints of trying to get into running though I'm shrinking but maintaining my curves IYKWIM

Good on you!! I don't think all girls put on weight when they train with weights, not by a long shot, but if strength is your #1 goal I think it's a fairly inevitable by-product. From what I've seen of your training your doing some Crossfit type work and you're concentrating on weights for conditioning as opposed to pure strength?

Delighted you're seeing such good results