fianna fail and why they shouldnt get a sniff of your vote in the next election

Dempsey

I dont know who I'm going to vote for but wake up and smell the coffee. The alternatives aren't better. There is a reason that FG and co didn't get a lookin for the last how many years tbh, they weren't good enough. Yes we are in a mess but that doesn't automatically mean that the alternative would have done any better at all.

I think what would be best is a more diverse set of politicians being elected so it isnt a case of one party forcing their hand over another or a government just looking after a percentage of the population. We need a diverse government, elected based on what the politician is promising, not his party.

I know it sound idealistic but its a change from FF or FG + a desperate party trying to run this country. Respect shown to difference points of view and circumstance. Seen too many stories of governments marginalizing good people just because they represented a fraction of the vote.

Liam Byrne

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

To be fair, the Greens never said that they wouldn't go into coalition with FF, they just said that they .....didn't want to go into power with FF

And the difference is ?

Dempsey wrote: »

I dont know who I'm going to vote for but wake up and smell the coffee. The alternatives aren't better.

A lack of corruption - by it's nature - makes them "better".

Yes, we should have much "better" overall, but at least FG aren't as bad.

Dempsey wrote: »

There is a reason that FG and co didn't get a lookin for the last how many years tbh, they weren't good enough. Yes we are in a mess but that doesn't automatically mean that the alternative would have done any better at all.

They certainly couldn't have done any worse!

And maybe "the reason" that FG didn't get a look in was because they didn't lie and buy elections with false promises ?

Dempsey

Liam Byrne wrote: »

A lack of corruption - by it's nature - makes them "better".

Yes, we should have much "better" overall, but at least FG aren't as bad.



They certainly couldn't have done any worse!

And maybe "the reason" that FG didn't get a look in was because they didn't lie and buy elections with false promises ?

Oh yes, Fianna Gael are squeaky clean. If you believe that then all I can do is laugh tbh

The certainly could have done worse!

Fianna Gael would have kept ALL of their promises

Are you really going to try and feed us this FG are better because they werent in the spotlight nonsense?

johnnyskeleton

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And the difference is ?

I don't think you can equate what the greens did with a liklihood that Labour will do the same.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Yes, we should have much "better" overall, but at least FG aren't as bad.

It's a toss up between the lesser of two evils on the one hand and better the devil you know on the other.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

They certainly couldn't have done any worse!

There's always room to do worse, but if FG were in power the last few years at least they probably wouldn't have allowed the public sector to increase so much.

Liam Byrne

Dempsey wrote: »

Are you really going to try and feed us this FG are better because they werent in the spotlight nonsense?

No. I prefer to deal in facts!

Remind me again where Lowry ended up after FG kicked him out because of his corruption ?

Then remind me how many FFers you've heard of getting permanently* kicked out because of corruption ?

* Sneaking BCF back in does not apply, for obvious reasons

Dempsey

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No. I prefer to deal in facts!

Remind me again where Lowry ended up after FG kicked him out because of his corruption ?

Then remind me how many FFers you've heard of getting permanently* kicked out because of corruption ?

* Sneaking BCF back in does not apply, for obvious reasons

But wasnt he corrupt whilst at FG???

What about that fact?

When was he proven as corrupt since his days at FG???

Liam Byrne

Dempsey wrote: »

But wasnt he corrupt whilst at FG???

What about that fact?

When was he proven as corrupt since his days at FG???

What's your point ?

The FACT is that as soon as FG found out, he was history.

In stark contrast to FF.

Unfortunately, you can't ensure that people won't get corrupted, but when found out, you get rid of them.

Except if you're FF, in which case you back them all the way to the nearest tribunal or jail.....or State Funeral (paid for by the people who were screwed, and eulogised by his successor in more-ways-than-one).

Dempsey

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What's your point ?

The FACT is that as soon as FG found out, he was history.

In stark contrast to FF.

Unfortunately, you can't ensure that people won't get corrupted, but when found out, you get rid of them.

Except if you're FF, in which case you back them all the way to the nearest tribunal or jail.

You've converted me, FG are pure as holy water, FF are as pure as the local water scheme.

You believing that they are whiter than white is funny but what even funnier is you thinking that I'm a FF man. I didnt say I was, I didnt vote in the last election, was traveling.

Liam Byrne

Dempsey wrote: »

You've converted me, FG are pure as holy water, FF are as pure as the local water scheme.

No - FG are as pure as TREATED water (i.e. corruption removed when found) and FF are the local slurry tank.

Dempsey wrote: »

You believing that they are whiter than white is funny but what even funnier is you thinking that I'm a FF man. I didnt say I was, I didnt vote in the last election, was traveling.

Funny how you assumed that "you" was directed at you, but the "you" in the sentence before it was generic, simply because it referred to FG :

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Unfortunately, you can't ensure that people won't get corrupted, but when found out, you get rid of them.

If you're as neutral as you claim, why did you only pick one ?

Dempsey

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No - FG are as pure as TREATED water (i.e. corruption removed when found) and FF are the local slurry tank.



Funny how you assumed that "you" was directed at you, but the "you" in the sentence before it was generic, simply because it referred to FG :



If you're as neutral as you claim, why did you only pick one ?

In your innocent mind maybe. In my mind its a case of trying to see life in black and white when its different shades of grey. I'm sure you are a model citizen, declared all your income to the revenue and benefits in kind and just never committed a sin. Your filing an appeal against your original sin as we speak :pac:

You quoted me, when you quote me DIRECTLY I will assume "you" is referring to me. In future, be clearer with what you say, no?

Liam Byrne

Dempsey wrote: »

In your innocent mind maybe. In my mind its a case of trying to see life in black and white when its different shades of grey. I'm sure you are a model citizen, declared all your income to the revenue and benefits in kind and just never committed a sin. Your filing an appeal against your original sin as we speak :pac:

You quoted me, when you quote me DIRECTLY I will assume "you" is referring to me. In future, be clearer with what you say, no?

Hang on a second before you confuse yourself on that tangent of yours.

1 ) I quoted you directly - check.

2 ) I commented about how you get rid of corruption - check.

3 ) I commented about how you don't, if you are in FF - check.

What caused you to completely miss #2, despite it being between the quote and the comment that you [actual you] took exception to ?

I will assume "you" is referring to me

If this was true, then "you" could just as easily have assumed that #2 would have referred to "you". You didn't.

I used the word 3 times. All 3 times were generic and equivalent.

Maybe I should start using the Queen's English and say "one", but in all honesty that wouldn't help if "you" continue to skip and ignore complete sentences, and take exception to arbirtrary ones.

johngalway

Dempsey wrote: »

Fianna Gael

Has something really big happened that I missed...

skearon

Johnnymcg wrote: »

the labour party membership will not vote for a coalition with FF

Of course they will, plus Labour policies are closer to FF's than FG's

skearon

bucks4becks wrote: »

People should be ashamed of themselves for calling themselves members/supporters of this party.

No, its your that should be ashamed of yourself for such a statement about any democratic political party.

sesna

wicklowwonder wrote: »

What ever your beef with Ahern you cannot call the collective group of FF scum.

Yes you can and its completely justified

skearon

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You seriously reckon that Kenny is worse than Cowen ?

Or as corrupt as Ahern ?

Jeez! I must be reading the wrong facts about the last ten years, because while Kenny is certainly no saint and was inept at getting O'Donoghue his due, he's light years ahead of those two.

Kenny has no economic knowledge and no ability to make decisions in a crisis, God help us all if he was ever to make Taoiseach!

Bertie Ahern has not been found guilty of any crime, there is such thing as due process!

sesna

skearon wrote: »

Kenny has no economic knowledge and no ability to make decisions in a crisis, God help us all if he was ever to make Taoiseach!

Bertie Ahern has not been found guilty of any crime, there is such thing as due process!

Ah yes, Brian Cowen really steered the country well during his reign as Minister for Finance. And as for Bertie, of course we all know he won the money on a horse...

skearon

sesna wrote: »

Ah yes, Brian Cowen really steered the country well during his reign as Minister for Finance. And as for Bertie, of course we all know he won the money on a horse...

Proof is the favourable response by the international markets to the Government's economic policy and the budget

sesna

skearon wrote: »

Proof is the favourable response by the international markets to the Government's economic policy and the budget

Proof is that the only thing stopping our live register figures from exceeding half a million people is mass emigration. Yes great economic policy.

Biggins

sesna wrote: »

Proof is only thing stopping our live register figures from exceeding half a million people is mass emigration. Yes great economic policy.

I heard RTE quoting figures of 60,000 from a report published by The Economic and Social Research Institute for the year 2009.

skearon

sesna wrote: »

Proof is that the only thing stopping our live register figures from exceeding half a million people is mass emigration. Yes great economic policy.

It's called a WORLD WIDE recession or did that little point miss you?

There is still nearly an extra million people at work

Since 1997, under FF, pensions have increased at a rate 3 times that of the increase in the cost of living, dole 3.25 times and child benefit 8.25 times!

Not to mention lasting peace on the island of Ireland.

So yes, great and successful policies.

Biggins

skearon wrote: »

...So yes, great and successful policies.

May I remind you of something between the IMF (their VERY damning report), Bertie, Fianna Fail and Ireland...

IT’S unlikely that Bertie Ahern has a copy of the IMF’s damning indictment of the Irish economy on his bedside table. Indeed, if the former Taoiseach were to use the report for nocturnal reading material it’s highly probable he would have nightmares for the rest of the year, because the IMF report is a stinging analysis of Ahern’s lengthy period as leader of this country.


...the Government was attempting to cling to the notion that Ireland had been sucked into the global economic vortex created by the collapse of the American bank, Lehman Brothers. The impression Brian Cowen and others were attempting to manufacture - albeit unsuccessfully - was of little old Ireland as a victim of wretched international economic circumstances. But the IMF didn’t buy that line; in its story we are the authors of our own misfortune. And Bertie Ahern, as Taoiseach for most of the boom period, is the man who must shoulder the lion’s share of the blame.

Ahern will ultimately be judged by the writers of history as a leader who failed to govern. The IMF report points to a glaring lack of accountability in the Ahern administration; a failure to regulate that cascaded from the top to the very bottom of the political and financial system. If Government is supposed to act as a watchdog on behalf of the public than Ahern’s successive administrations were little more than poodles in their dealings with corporate Ireland - if that isn’t an insult to the poodle community. There was no governance; there was no regulation; there was no accountability.

The IMF report identifies 2002 as the year when everything began to turn sour. Up to then Ireland had built a strong, vibrant economy on foreign-direct investment; property prices had increased steadily, but not at the alarming rates that were to be seen in the next five years. But everything changed after 2002.

Many intelligent people bought into the property boom in a manner that was utterly astounding. I have heard of sane, smart people who purchased two, three and four overpriced houses in the mistaken belief that there would be a rental market for ever more. The notion that rents might fall or that the value of the houses could drop - even slightly - was not considered. These are the same people who are now facing financial ruin. Their biggest mistake was to listen to people like Bertie Ahern when they told them that everything was going to be alright; that the worst we could expect was a “soft landing” as we fell from the property ladder.


Ahern’s failure to regulate the property and building industry will, ultimately, dominate his legacy as Taoiseach. It doesn’t matter what else he achieved or failed to achieve during his time in office - when it came to the big issue of the day (i.e. the property bubble) he was incapable of acting decisively. Not only did he not act, Ahern heightened public expectations that the boom would last forever by encouraging young people to invest in the 100 per cent mortgages that have become their ruination.

The IMF report is as bad as it gets from Ahern’s point of view.

He is powerless to rewrite history and the best he can do is hope his involvement in the Northern Peace Process spares him the ignominy of being described as Ireland’s worst ever Taoiseach.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/bertie-ahern-the-teflon-taoiseach-who-came-unstuck-804034.html

Fianna Fail then went on to further wreck havoc on many areas and continue to do so...

Incompetence following upon previous incompetence... and it still continues today.

sesna

skearon wrote: »

It's called a WORLD WIDE recession or did that little point miss you?

And all our economic policies were sound until Lehman Brothers? I suppose international financial commentators are misguided too when they class Ireland in the group of PIIGS basket-case economies.

And Nama isn't going to cost the taxpayer a penny either?
Any other FF hack party lines you want to toe?

skearon

sesna wrote: »

And all our economic policies were sound until Lehman Brothers? I suppose international financial commentators are misguided too when they class Ireland in the group of PIIGS basket-case economies.

And Nama isn't going to cost the taxpayer a penny either?
Any other FF hack party lines you want to tow?

They weren't as there was poor financial regulation here, but main cause was complete lack of regulation in the USA which ended up infecting the world's economic markets.

Wake up call for you - thanks to the Government's fiscal measures, Ireland is no longer internationally regarded as being in a similar state as Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain.

I base my opinions on facts, not insults, and yes the facts clearly show NAMA will be self financing.

dvpower

skearon wrote: »

I base my opinions on facts, not insults, and yes the facts clearly show NAMA will be self financing.

You have facts that can clearly predict the future?

skearon

dvpower wrote: »

You have facts that can clearly predict the future?

If I could I'd be down doing the lotto FFS :-)

No, I believe credible financial projections

sesna

skearon wrote: »

They weren't as there was poor financial regulation here, but main cause was complete lack of regulation in the USA which ended up infecting the world's economic markets, but somehow Ireland ended up in a much worse off position than our neighbours, and most reasonable economists agree about 70% of our problems were homegrown

Wake up call for you - thanks to the Government's fiscal measures European Central Bank, Ireland is no longer internationally regarded as being in a similar state as Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain (in the opinion of FF hack supporters)

I base my opinions on facts, not insults, and yes the facts clearly show NAMA will be self financing..And now back to reality

Necessary changes in bold

Dempsey

Liam Byrne, you are off on a right tangent tbh. Use yer Queens English if thats what you like to do, ya blueshirt... :pac:

Michael Lowery is the one that got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. If you believe that its only FF that corrupt and nobody else then you are deluded.

johngalway wrote: »

Has something really big happened that I missed...

A bottle of Stagger Home would do that to you

skearon

sesna wrote: »

Necessary changes in bold

Nonense, but talking of the ECB, they are fully supportive of NAMA

sesna

skearon wrote: »

Nonense, but talking of the ECB, they are fully supportive of NAMA

The issue was the cost to the taxpayer, not the ECB's support. More spin.