Tendering for a predator control job, need advice please

johngalway

i all,

I am considering putting in a tender for a pest control job. Thing is I haven't got the first clue how to go about this :clapper:

The job entails trapping mink & greycrows and controlling foxes. I've got the experience to do those jobs no problem.

The area would be several specific sites which would entail me doing considerable mileage (€40 fuel allowance per week), basically I'm at one end of it and it would stretch 100 miles away from me.

The work is supposed to be "full time", yet to have that defined. May involve weekend and unsociable hours :clapper:

I know I can do the job. But, I have no experience in pricing! I'd rather over quote and lose the job than cost myself money I don't really have.

Any genuine help appreciated

Yours drooling over the prospect..

JG

dicky82

hey john,
im an electrician and pricing jobs is a bit of a pain in the arse. you never know what your going to be faced with and the last thing you wana do is cut yourself short.

based on some of the pricing ive done i try to factor in everything.

1. calculate your millage per day. two trips a day to the farthes point by seven days (even if you dont do seven rather be covered than not)

2. how many traps, baits rounds are you likely to use in the week.

3. what will the cost be in disposing of the quarry (there might be environmental laws you'll have to abide by)

4. most importantly, how much are you worth? are you willing to work an eight hour day for eighty euro? (example only) i would doubt it, so you have to ask yourself if your going to provide an eight hour service how much do you want for it? (obviously you'll want more on those cold nights in december).

5. from what i gather you're a sheep farmer john, so if your going to be committing your valuable time to this then it has to be worth your while. you'll know what return you get for a days work on your farm so use that as a guide.

6. john dont let your love of your sport cloud your judgement i think you'd nearly do this job for free if it came to it? :D. hope i havent over stepped the mark and have been of some help?

sfakiaman

Don't forget to factor in a portion of the running costs of the vehicle including wear & tear, insurance, road tax, depreciation, servicing. Also allow for traps etc being damaged or even stolen. Sounds like a nice job but there is nothing like being under paid to take the gloss off something.

Vegeta

That was a good post dicky82

John just sit down with pen and paper, a nice hot cuppa and add it all up.

Fuel, wear and tear on the vehicle, services, repairs, Eventual replacement of vehicle

Equipment, ammo, breakages and again replacement of all of the above over time

Cost of Business and Overheads, accountants, laptop or computer to track all invoices and receipts. Cost of electricty and heat may be small but the computer has to be powered some how and the home office lit up somehow. Disposal of quarry. Sure shooting 1 or 2 foxes a week is nothing the predators cant deal with but what if there are scores of carcasses?

Your worth, how much can you make a day on the farm or at other activities you have skills for. Are you willing to take a drop in this figure for job satisfaction? What are your outgoings that simply must be met. Loan on car, mortgage, mouths to feed, ESB or heating oil?

Unsocial hours are part of the job and probably not something I'd put weight into. My brother was a chef and had to work early mornings and late evenings. His pay wasn't any higher as a result. Would it even bother you really?


And John if you ever need a hand there will surely be lots of offers of free labour :P

johngalway

Thanks guys, keep it coming, really good info so far

Jonty

Don't forget about Public Liability Insurance and relevant tax clearance details. I imagine NARGC club insurance wouldn't cover you as you are pest controlling for "hire or reward".

johngalway

I would agree with that Jonty. What type of insurance would I need to do a job such as that? Also they did mention I must provide proof of tax compliance, would my last years tax bill do? I just hand in receipts to my accountant lol.

Jonty

johngalway wrote: »

I would agree with that Jonty. What type of insurance would I need to do a job such as that? Also they did mention I must provide proof of tax compliance, would my last years tax bill do? I just hand in receipts to my accountant lol.

I don't know about the insurance. I reckon it would be steep enough, as soon as firearms, poison, and trapping is mentioned. It would be a form of public liability insurance. As regards the tax compliance I think you'd have to apply for a C2 cert or maybe c35 not sure.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/business/running/tax-clearance.html

cavan shooter

youll need to regester as a sole trader or recommended a limited company(your limiting your liabilities)
C2 from the tax man
safety statement with risk assessments your sorted

fish slapped

JG, just to wish you the best of luck, you're well up to it and if it didn't work out you could always get a job writing for any hunting mag.

meathstevie

John, can I suggest a reverse calculation ? What do you need in your hand at the end of the week to make a living ?

Take that figure, calculate a good estimate of your costs and you'll know what you need to charge.

Also don't forget that you'll now be able to offset the cost of your scopes, rifles, ammo, lamps, callers etc against taxes.

Invoices or receipts from gun dealer needed.

Are you vat registered ?

dicky82

Vegeta wrote: »

That was a good post dicky82

cheers for that mate.

EPointer=Birdss

Well John, a tempting venture indeed.

If going through the books John you'll have to go the sole trader route or Limited company route. LC is prob better but you'll need a sectretary also I think. It costs less to set up the Sole trader route as i did while back but you lose out on what you can claim on tax. Some colleagues were claiming loads on tax I couldn't.
If the proposed job is over 65K (check this figure) a year you will have to register for VAT. This adds 21.5% to all invoices you send to your customer. They may not like the increased cost.
It has benefits in that you can offset the VAT on all equipment, laptops etc that are wholely & solely business orientated to the VAT returns each 2 months. So basically all you buy for work will be 21.5% cheaper once you have a Vat receipt.

My advice is scope out whats involved. Google Fishbone diagram to help brainstorm the potential factors. It is not designed for this but could be applied. It applies a man, machine, method, etc methodology which might get the aul cogs turning & considoring areas you might have overlooked.
Apply a cost to each factor so you don't miss anything & sum up over a period (annually to start & easy work out weekly)

I would also talk to an accountant to discuss what route you go & your options. I learned a lot from mine.

When you have your facts & costs worked out as you see it & I think the lads explained this well already I would add 10-15% for hidden costs.
Then you need to work out what margins you want to make out of the whole thing.

I would also look at ringing a few similiar companies & ask them to quote on a phantom job you have. This gives you a measure of what the going rates are & you can evaluate if you are competitive or not before pricing yourself out of it or grossly under selling yourself...

Hope this helps Be interested to see how you get on...

clivej

John just to add to EPointer=Birdss.
When you get the VAT set up you can clain for everything to do with your new job.
So thats all your ammo, a new gun , tyres for the car/pickup and so on.................

It wasn't me!

John, don't have much to add to the advice here, but would love to hear how you get on with this venture, and if you're successful, what it involves for you. Hell of a job if you could get it.

sikastag

John,

Sincerely wish you the best with this venture, and hope that it proves properous for you. Maybe we might read about some of your job details??? Sound advice from the lads. May be worth considering applying for dealers licence, even ammo only licence, might aid your trading a little and coupled with VAT registration, it may open up some cost effective avenues for you should your venture be successful. Not sure how easy/difficult it is to get licence nowadays (security etc...) but might be worth exploring.

Either way, all the best with it and as fishslapped said keep writing!

No6

John look carefully at the job and what it involves, 40 euro a week travel will not cover you if you have to go to the end site 100 miles away every day!!! I would go as self employed, theres way less returns at the end of the year and lower accounantcy costs, price what insurance you need before you complete your quote, public liability at least and it will need to be around 6.5million. It could be pricy if you are using firearms or any dangerous substances. You may also have to buy a lot of traps or materials to make them to achieve the results required. You will need a C2 or a tax clearance cert if you havn't been working in an area where revenue provide C2's, sounds interesting good luck with it.

Invincible

Hi John,I know a fella from the county that's done a mink control programme over 10 weeks for the Shannon callows area a couple of years ago,this was paid for by the wildlife dept if I remember correctly.I could put you in touch with him if it would be any help.

johngalway

Invincible wrote: »

Hi John,I know a fella from the county that's done a mink control programme over 10 weeks for the Shannon callows area a couple of years ago,this was paid for by the wildlife dept if I remember correctly.I could put you in touch with him if it would be any help.

That would be of great help, thanks

dicky82

john forgot to menchine in my origional post john, best of luck!!!

also can i be the first to apply for an apprenticiship with your firm if you are successful. . . :D

J. Ramone

No need to obtain a C2 as pest control is not an activity that would define you as a relevant contractor (mainly construction and forestry). If you want to form a limited company you would need to factor an additional cost of a couple of thousand per anum for costs of additional administration/compliance. Not sure if say an accident were to happen that you would be personally secure as a director/employee of your company. What if you were sued as well as the company?

On another point, your prospective hirer would be on shaky ground with the Revenue hiring you as a self employed contractor. You would meet some of the tests such as using your own equipment, however being effectively full time would be on the Revenues' side. The benefit for the hirer would be to avoid paying employers PRSI on your gross pay and would mean you would have no rights under employment law. Revenue are currently putting the boot in on this issue with IT professionals. Mileage payments as an employee could be more tax efficient from your point of view. Also beware of becoming obliged by contractual obligations such as continuity of service.

Do your sums and add a bit is my advice, once you know where you stand having done your homework, you will be better positioned to negotiate.

noodle650

Hi mate,
Wish i could get in on that! im sending bunnies up to Fota wildlife park at the moment! i got the .22 at last! *jumps and skips around like a lil girl*

Best,
Dogfox

Invincible

Hi John,I was in contact with that man about putting you in touch,PM sent to you with contact details.

Double Barrel

John,

Good advice by all.

Put your 'plan' on paper.

Get your figures together and add 10% to the bottom line. There's "always" something not in the equation. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Find an Accountant (chartered or certified) that specialises in 'self employed' persons and or businesses. At the end of the 'day' you are a farmer and your secondary income will be as a self employed contractor.

There may be a possibility you would be considered ' a self employed gamekeeper ' , a stretch but worth a try.

The entity you contract to may/will have liability insurance, you may be covered with a rider on their policy. If not get very specific requirements as to Ins. needs.

Do you know what return you get for a years work on your farm?

How much of that time are you willing to give up to your new source of income? ..... Is it worth it ? ..... Trade off.'s.

"6. john do not let your love of your sport cloud your judgement". Very Good advice.

BTW it will only be a dandy 'job' if it pencils out.
Good Luck

greenpeter

Maybe get a shooting buddy involved and split the running costs, anyway the very best of luck with it John hope it works out for you.

Rosahane

John, with regard to the transport allowance, have a look at the public service mileage rates which take account of the running, depreciation and replacement costs of a vehicle. They are somewhat, but not overly generous and well worth using as a rule of thumb possibly applying soem level of discount.