Time for an 'alternative' Green Party?

Scofflaw

ajdb wrote: »

An alternative GP - interesting idea. The Greens have definitely not lived up to the expectations of many supporters, going into power with FF was a mistake and one that has been compounded over time. NAMA was and will continue to be a disaster. Ryan hasn't delivered on Broadband although at least he's done more in two years than Dempsey ever did. Gogarty is a total waste of space.

I am a GP member and am of the opinion that FF will do far more damage to the country than any possible good the Greens can do.

The GP should pull out of Government and we should be engaging with Labour and FG.

There is no 'silver bullet' solution to the mess that FF has created, however once FF are out, the country can at least start to clean up.

Unfortunately, the Greens can't deliver "FF out" and they certainly can't deliver "FG/Lab" in.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Macha

ajdb wrote: »

An alternative GP - interesting idea. The Greens have definitely not lived up to the expectations of many supporters, going into power with FF was a mistake and one that has been compounded over time. NAMA was and will continue to be a disaster. Ryan hasn't delivered on Broadband although at least he's done more in two years than Dempsey ever did. Gogarty is a total waste of space.

This has been discussed over and over. As a minority party, it was practically impossible for the Greens to live up to expectations - particularly since many of their supporters had never experienced the realities of government and compromise.

ajdb wrote: »

I am a GP member and am of the opinion that FF will do far more damage to the country than any possible good the Greens can do.

I don't. I see FF, and FG for that matter, as parties whose policies ebb and flow depending on the political landscape. As such, both parties are actually very open to influence if the situation is right (ie, the renewed programme for government in Autumn 2008).

ajdb wrote: »

The GP should pull out of Government and we should be engaging with Labour and FG.

I would, of course, consider Labour to be a much more natural alliance than FG or FF. But what do you mean by "engaging"?

ajdb wrote: »

There is no 'silver bullet' solution to the mess that FF has created, however once FF are out, the country can at least start to clean up.

I actually think it's quite nice to see FF cleaning up their own mess for once.

ajdb

taconnol wrote: »

I don't. I see FF, and FG for that matter, as parties whose policies ebb and flow depending on the political landscape. As such, both parties are actually very open to influence if the situation is right (ie, the renewed programme for government in Autumn 2008).

When in power it is not just your policies it's how you go about implementing them. The majority of the FF front bench over the last 20 years have proven to be the most corrupt politicians Ireland has ever had.
Any minority party that keeps them in power is doing the country a disservice.

taconnol wrote: »

I actually think it's quite nice to see FF cleaning up their own mess for once.

You actually believe that FF are cleaning up there own mess?? At most, what they are doing is trying to cover up their mess once it has been uncovered by somebody else......

Macha

ajdb wrote: »

When in power it is not just your policies it's how you go about implementing them. The majority of the FF front bench over the last 20 years have proven to be the most corrupt politicians Ireland has ever had.
Any minority party that keeps them in power is doing the country a disservice.

Most corrupt politicians Ireland has ever had? What a claim.

As for the Greens keeping them in power, it is foolish to believe that FF aren't in with a decent chance at the next general election, whenever it may be. It isn't the Greens that are keeping FF in power - it is the die-hard 25% of this country who vote for them no matter what that are keeping FF in power.

ajdb wrote: »

You actually believe that FF are cleaning up there own mess?? At most, what they are doing is trying to cover up their mess once it has been uncovered by somebody else......

Yes, I do believe FF are cleaning up their own mess and if you're going to claim otherwise, please provide some evidence or an argument.

anymore

taconnol wrote: »

Most corrupt politicians Ireland has ever had? What a claim.

As for the Greens keeping them in power, it is foolish to believe that FF aren't in with a decent chance at the next general election, whenever it may be. It isn't the Greens that are keeping FF in power - it is the die-hard 25% of this country who vote for them no matter what that are keeping FF in power.


Yes, I do believe FF are cleaning up their own mess and if you're going to claim otherwise, please provide some evidence or an argument.

The FF party has shown once again that is a virus that has infected the irish political system and that exists only for itself. See how it has contaminated the Green party and destroyed it, just as it has done to the PDs !

Macha

anymore wrote: »

The FF party has shown once again that is a virus that has infected the irish political system and that exists only for itself. See how it has contaminated the Green party and destroyed it, just as it has done to the PDs !

Oh it would be so nice to be able to have a level-headed discussion on this but the populist ravings just keep on coming.

ajdb

taconnol wrote: »

Oh it would be so nice to be able to have a level-headed discussion on this but the populist ravings just keep on coming.

Well in my book it is quite difficult to have a level-headed discussion with someone who believes that FF are cleaning up the system..... come on wake up!!

Ireland over last 10 years - gap between rich and poor increased faster in Ireland than any other EU country, worker productivity gone south, FAS, Berties deal with the Catholic church, land rezoning, Burke, Lawlor, PFlynn, his daughter, Willie O'Dea, Anglos loans to politicians.... the list goes on and on

On that note we can agree to disagree :-)

Raiser

taconnol wrote: »

Oh it would be so nice to be able to have a level-headed discussion on this but the populist ravings just keep on coming.

I challenge anybody on this Forum to find me a handful of Posts from Tackonnol where he is not deflecting valid, well-reasoned and logical arguments by branding everything as "populist".

Macha

Raiser wrote: »

I challenge anybody on this Forum to find me a handful of Posts from Tackonnol where he is not deflecting valid, well-reasoned and logical arguments by branding everything as "populist".

I'm female. But thanks for gathering the mob.

Stroke Politics

[/QUOTE]

ajdb

Scofflaw wrote: »

Unfortunately, the Greens can't deliver "FF out" and they certainly can't deliver "FG/Lab" in.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Well no totally true, they did have an option to opt out of the programme for government last year - but they didn't take it.

Agreed they can't deliver Labour/FG in - but they could form a coalition with Labour/FG

The longer the GP is seen as FFs' whipping boy, the more damage it will do to country and to the GP.

Scofflaw

ajdb wrote: »

Well no totally true, they did have an option to opt out of the programme for government last year - but they didn't take it.

Agreed they can't deliver Labour/FG in - but they could form a coalition with Labour/FG

The longer the GP is seen as FFs' whipping boy, the more damage it will do to country and to the GP.

That's true, but the seat arithmetic doesn't make a Fine Gael/Labour/Green coalition possible, and it was even less possible when the PfG came up for renewal.

Pulling out of government right now would leave the whole Dáil in a state where neither of the two main parties could form a coalition with a majority. That's probably the least useful possible thing for anyone to do at the moment.

cordially,
Scofflaw