Are you happy with the "new" firearms licencing system ?

bunny shooter

Your so right

I agree

That's so blatantly obvious :P

Nice to see I'm not alone in my appreciation of grammer and the proper use of language on this site

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

Your so right

I agree

That's so blatantly obvious :P

Nice to see I'm not alone in my appreciation of grammer and the proper use of language on this site

You let yourself down there

bunny shooter

rrpc wrote: »

You let yourself down there

Be more a spelling than a grammer mistake OR .................. maybe I did it to see would you catch it :P

noodle650

the only things i am not happy about are....The price....the restrictions and the conditions, although the later 2 did not affect me im sure they have hit hundreds below the belt.
regards,
DF

jwshooter

if a goverment is big enough to give you everything you want ,its big enough to take away every thing you have .

gunhappy_ie

I am happy with the new system...

hoewever im not happy with the way that it is being applied in certain areas

daveob007

HAPPY with the speed of the new system.
HAPPY with the 3 year licence.
HAPPY with the cost.
HAPPY with the security bit.

UNHAPPY with the ristriced list,all .22 pistols should be non restricted
the more dangerous thing because of pistol grips looks is crap.
UNHAPPY with the way its been enforced.
UNHAPPY with the ammount of paper work,would like to see an online version paperless.
UNHAPPY with the way the licences were outsourced to an post and the security implications it could have if the info got into the wrong hands.
UNHAPPY that the old 6 euro shotgun licence for vermin control is gone.

cavan shooter

I have no issues with the new system, the forms arent all bad Ive filled out 15 and not one was my own (yet).

I dont have a pistol and the local FO/Superintendent is a very reasonable chap and works with us in relation to issues and is open to discussion/clarification and advise.

I am disappointed with the quality of the cards issued (cheap and shoddy)

I am disappointed with the carryon I read about and the return to court,(I thought we were passed that)

I am disappointed with the two faced approach from the State (the everyone is a criminal approach, and the I have the right to protect the public, so I shall ban) it shows ignorance in relation to lawful sport shooters.

anyway I wont keep ranting...

bunny shooter

Interesting results seems that currently nearly 70% of those polled are unhappy.

yubabill

Been licensed eor over 25 years and was asked for cert of competence. Also had to resubmit shooting permissions in long form. Highly embarrassing for me.
Would be ok if we got something in return, but the jury is out.

ivanthehunter

Not happy!

Garda are still making up their own rules!! Just one look at the Commissioners guild lines will show it to all in black n white... Yet it sits there unchallenged.

Not happy with the security requirements!!
I think that air-rifles under 18ft/lbs should be licenced as normal and stored under lock and key but they should be counted in terms of calculating ones security status!!
I also believe that the same should apply to muzzle loaders and crossbows.

How ridiculous is it that crossbows are now restricted!! ffs This just adds insult to injury! And what about Sabots being restricted?? What if reloading comes in and i want to stick a .224 in my .308--Well..?>?? If they even knew what they were talking about I'd be amazed..

Even though the life blood has been sucked out of handgun sports, the government still sits on the reloading fence! Lets face it- they (the policy makers) know nothing about ballistics or bullet quality control. They are unable to comprehend the passion that some of us would love to pursue by experimenting with our own loads and bullet designs..
Can they not fathom that reloading is an art in its self! and is as justifiable as rifle building or fly tying or even photography.
FFS if i wanted powder and primers I'd just have to wipe open a few cartons of shot gun cartridges. These people are scared sh1tless about the storage of powder and primes and TBH they have no call for this excessive fear other than ignorance of the facts!!
Considering that they have killed legal handgun sports is it too much to ask that they allow rifle sports to blossom by allowing the sport to go full circle via reloading..

I'm am happy that the issue of second barrels has been highlighted but this will soon be clamped down on when Sako quad sale go to high and one the politicians looks a little deeper and discovers that we're getting a two for one deal!!-

ivanthehunter

BTW
I'm not happy with alot of the legislation relating to firearms! It is purely designed to deal with the criminal element within society.

I for one fee that separate laws should have been drafted for legal firearms holders or that the law should give concession to those with permits on some issues.

For too long now, the sport which i love has been governed by anti criminal laws. ffs it really sickens me that stuff like picking up some spent brass down at the club could land me in jail, or ordering a part for the gun over the net is deemed as importation of a firearm ffs.:mad:

TargetWidow

daveob007 wrote: »

UNHAPPY with the way the licences were outsourced to an post and the security implications it could have if the info got into the wrong hands.

Hopefully as someone who works within this system I can be of help in allaying this particular fear on your part.
When you hand your approved letter/request for fee payment across the counter at the Post Office, the bar-code is scanned by the clerk, the fee and name showing up on screen checked as being the same as on the letter, cash accepted, receipt printed, stapled to your letter and handed immediately across the counter to you again. No record remains in the post office of your name, address, calibre, make or model of firearm. All that comes up on screen is the name address and fee. No paperwork is left, as it is all done online though the An Garda Siochana database, to which we do not have access without aforementioned barcode on your aforementioned firearms letter. Your information cannot be accessed by anyone again in that or any other Post Office. All staff that work in the Post Office must sign a declaration every year that they cannot disclose any information they learn in the course of their duties to any person outside of work. (Many of my customers would know of my hubby's involvement in shooting and are always comforted when processing their payments when I reassure them that I do not ever discuss any firearms licences I process with anyone, including the hubby at home and that if they want to tell him their licences have come through they can do so themselves but I don't get into that with him). Our An Garda Siochana contract (for processing both fines/penalty points and firearms) require that we only read certain sections of the paperwork to verify details as necessary. Disclosure of such information is a sacking offense and generally the clerks are very highly vetted. In an environment where there are large sums of cash and vulnerable elderly people whose trust we need to keep our business going it is in our best interests that only the most very discreet and trustworthy and honest of people are employed in our offices.

Personally I feel that the firearms certificate itself poses a far greater risk to your security as it contains your name, address, make, model and calibre of firearm. A shopping list for any crim if the tiny thing should ever be lost or picked from your pocket. All it is short of is a list of the times you may not be a home and a small map of your house showing exactly where you have your gunsafe and small-parts stored.

moan 77

In all fairness lads what did we expect them to make it easy for us when all the do- gooders want us to melt down our guns. I nearly empolyed a secretary to fill out the forms cause i had three gun and to make you laugh i had to call back twice cause form not right. When all was done and dusted i had noted that they didnt come and look at safe also i didnt supply pluse numbers, and i know lads that were nearly raid to look at their safe, some joke the whole thing, what was wrong with the old way.

rrpc

moan 77 wrote: »

In all fairness lads what did we expect them to make it easy for us when all the do- gooders want us to melt down our guns. I nearly empolyed a secretary to fill out the forms cause i had three gun and to make you laugh i had to call back twice cause form not right. When all was done and dusted i had noted that they didnt come and look at safe also i didnt supply pluse numbers, and i know lads that were nearly raid to look at their safe, some joke the whole thing, what was wrong with the old way.

You don't supply pulse numbers, that part is for Garda use only.

moan 77

The dealer's pulse number has to be supplied and i told the cop i cant remember where i got guns from which shop as the three came from different shops.

I also checked with a couple of lads around at the time and they had to supply pulse numbers

rrpc

moan 77 wrote: »

The dealer's pulse number has to be supplied and i told the cop i cant remember where i got guns from which shop as the three came from different shops.

I also checked with a couple of lads around at the time and they had to supply pulse numbers

That's only required if it's a new application and the first time you've licensed the firearm.

It's totally irrelevant if you're re-licensing a firearm under the new system. The dealer you bought the firearm from could have gone out of business. One of my rifles is over twenty years old and was bought from Watts in Dublin (out of business), the other was bought from the UK and my pistol came from Switzerland.

No pulse numbers from any of them :rolleyes:

bunny shooter

This poll is very interesting. Looks like 68% + unhappy.

Maybe DOJ looking in will take note

Grizzly 45

TargetWidow wrote: »

Hopefully as someone who works within this system I can be of help in allaying this particular fear on your part

. .......

Ya know...This post by TW is a minor point that could have been discussed with the FCP and passed onto the revelant shooting bodies who could have informed US shooters that such fears would be groundless.
But No!!! the Irish Govts culture of suspicion and secrecy and non information when it comes to firearms,such information should never be disseminated to the sheeple out there!!
Although I would still be doubtful on how secure this system is when you send off your application to Clare,where it is processed manually still??
Maybe TW you could inform us on that one?
And thanks for the info too it is nice to get some info from the inside,rather than wait for announcements from Govt minions.:(

BornToKill

bunny shooter wrote: »

This poll is very interesting. Looks like 68% + unhappy.

Maybe DOJ looking in will take note

It is very interesting. It shows 52 people to be unhappy (for a variety of reasons) with aspects of the new system. That's out of the approximately 60,000 applications already processed or being processed. Looks like a resounding success if viewed in those terms.

sfakiaman

bunny shooter wrote: »

This poll is very interesting. Looks like 68% + unhappy.

Maybe DOJ looking in will take note

DOJ/Garda will probably get a bonus from Ahearn if they can push it over the 70% mark.

lordarpad

I think the system is a vast improvement. the misapplication by most Garda stations is something else. My F.O. and Super are grand and it has been an actual pleasure to apply for my first gun and go through all the process. It could not have been better.

Sorry to disappoint.

Dvs

lordarpad wrote: »

I think the system is a vast improvement. the misapplication by most Garda stations is something else. My F.O. and Super are grand and it has been an actual pleasure to apply for my first gun and go through all the process. It could not have been better.

Sorry to disappoint.

I don't understand how you can say the system has improved,
you say that you have just applied for your first firearm under the new system, and if you have no experience of the old system, how can you quantify or measure this vast improvement?


Dvs.

lordarpad

I kinda noticed that flaw in my reasoning after posting. Well i know that I am happy that my licence lasts for 3 years and not 1. I am happy that there is an official limit to the processing time of 3 months. I am happy that there are standardised rules out by the garda commissioner.

Sparks

BornToKill wrote: »

It is very interesting. It shows 52 people to be unhappy (for a variety of reasons) with aspects of the new system. That's out of the approximately 60,000 applications already processed or being processed. Looks like a resounding success if viewed in those terms.

As much as the vote of confidence in boards.ie is pleasant to hear, I don't think we have all the applicants who are represented by those 60,000 applications posting in here. Yet.

Mind you, even the old system had, conservatively, 99% of its applications go through each year without any major issue. The question of improvement then has to be determined by looking more at the edge cases than the 'normal' cases and seeing if those are handled better than under the old system.

Sparks

lordarpad wrote: »

I am happy that my licence lasts for 3 years and not 1.

True, but it can be subject to far more rules and restrictions today than in 2004. And it can be revoked more easily.

I am happy that there is an official limit to the processing time of 3 months.

Indeed, but there is not requirement for the Gardai to notify you if they decide not to grant the licence, and there are other caveats.

I am happy that there are standardised rules out by the garda commissioner.

There aren't. There are guidelines, not rules; individual superintendents retain the ability to impose per-licence conditions as before, and now individual chief superintendents and the commissioner and the Minister may make further preconditions as well. This increases the number of sources of rules, which is a recipe for confusion. And added to that is the question of who is the persona designata. Logic says it cannot any longer be the local superintendent because his decision can now be overturned by the District Court judge who can direct him to issue a licence. Previously, even the High Court could not do that, at best it could review a decision and state it had to be remade if it was made on illegal grounds - but the actual decision itself, it was powerless to change or direct.

And that's not mentioning the personal imports minefield.

I'm not saying the new system is unworkable or unfixable, but I don't think it's an improvement as it currently stands.

TargetWidow

The Gardai are still "losing" applications. This is a really worrying problem given the kind of clientele who spend many hours hanging around in police stations. There must be thousands of detailed descriptions of who, what, where and how stored floating around the garda stations of Ireland. And how dare we demand accountability for this loss of highly confidential information! Time we had some suitably qualified civilians processing firearms applications....

Not chosen by the Gardai I hasten to add, given that their firearms "expert" was recently laughed out of court for admitting that his theory that WA1500PPC was an illegal sport was based on "videos he had seen on youtube".:eek: I have had in my possession for a few years, a dossier written over 5 years ago by the same Garda "firearms expert" and which has since become the basis for the theory that all cf pistols are "military and police weapons".... It is mostly made up of adverts and articles from Guns and Ammo from the 80s and his own rather self important opinion. They will be wheeling him out again soon in North Kerry. They have no shame at all!:rolleyes:

bunny shooter

BornToKill wrote: »

It is very interesting. It shows 52 people to be unhappy (for a variety of reasons) with aspects of the new system. That's out of the approximately 60,000 applications already processed or being processed. Looks like a resounding success if viewed in those terms.

52 out of 83 (69.88%) who voted here :rolleyes:

To apply these figures to yours that means potentially nearly 42,000 of your 60,000 firearms owners are unhappy. Or are you unable to think that far outside the proverbial box

That's a lot of votes

rowa

I think the new system is the worst of both worlds , we are getting the same old nonsense we had before , and which this new system is supposed to eradicate, eg, chief supers acting as tinpot gods and people being treated as mugs !

bunny shooter

lordarpad wrote: »

......I am happy that there are standardised rules out by the garda commissioner.

Really

They are "guidelines" and Supers/Chief Supers are free to totally ignore them if they so wish :rolleyes:

This is from my own personal experience