Non - Psychology Graduate.

I_am_Jebus

Hi all,

I am just looking for some advice on the best way to get into a psychology career. I have a BA(Hons) in Business with a speciality in HR.

I would really like to get in to psychology as a career. I have been looking around at courses etc (part time (evening) as I work full time)). I am 26. I had leaned mostly towards the Dublin Biz School BA(Hons) in Psychology. But I have also notice that they offer a 2 year Post Grad Higher Diploma in Psychology http://www.dbs.ie/Psychology/Postgraduate-Higher-Diploma.htm
which is offered to Non-Psychology graduates.

The Post Grad Diploma is not currently accredited by PSI but it seems DBS are seeking this accreditation.

I am just wondering if people "in the know" would consider if the PG Higher Dip. is a worth while approach to take for this career or would it be better to undertake the undergraduate degree instead.
Obviously I am aware that a Masters and PhD are also required and I would be determined to undertake these when the time comes.

The Higher Dip is a little more attractive to me because it is 2 years in duration compared to 4 years for the undergraduate.

But as this is a career I really want to pursue I would like to make the correct/better choice in the beginning.

Any guidance would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

hotspur

The H Dip is equivalent to the undergraduate degree so there is really not much value in spending 4 years doing what you can get in 2 years. DBS has only started their H Dip so that explains why it has not yet been validated by the PSI but given their undergrad is then the H Dip surely will be. Psychology training postgrad is long enough without adding an extra 2 years to getting your undergrad degree.

I_am_Jebus

Hi.

Thank you for your response.
If you (and others) don't mind I would just like to ask some further advice please.

Long-term wise I would like pursue professionally a career in analysing, diagnosing and treating individuals/families/groups etc... with psychological difficulties / mental illnesses etc...

I was wondering what, in terms of the courses available which would be the best way to pursue this.

The PG. H.Dip in Psychology is most likely my starting point - http://www.dbs.ie/Psychology/Postgraduate-Higher-Diploma.htm

Just wondering would you think general psychology like that above would be a better or worse way to go than say the

PG. H.Dip in Counselling and Psychotherapy
http://www.dbs.ie/Counselling-Psychotherapy/Postgraduate-Higher-Diploma.htm

My long-term goal is to work full time with clients/patients etc... rather than in research. Although I am sure I would engage in continued life long research in my own time in order to upskill learn new techniques etc..

Likewise it is a goal of mine to spend 12-18months counselling in clinics in Africa or Asia (particularly but not solely with HIV patients etc...). VOS advertise such posts from time to time.

I suppose I am having difficulty in determining the difference between say a Psychologist Counsellor and a Psychotherapist.

Following (hopefully) successful completion of either of the above PG. H.Dips I would be very likely to do one of the Following Masters, either also at DBS or in another university:

MA in Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy
http://www.dbs.ie/Psychoanalytic-Psychotherapy-MA.htm

MA in Psychotherapy
http://www.dbs.ie/Psychotherapy-MA.htm

I would really appreciate any advice anyone might have as there so many paths/options out there it is difficult to understand them all.

Thanks
Jebus

hotspur

Firstly I think you need to spread your gaze a bit wider than DBS. That's not a slight on them, I have a masters from there myself, but there are many H Dips in psychology and many many psychotherapy courses out there.

The issue about the differences between a psychologist, a psychotherapist, and a counsellor is an interesting one. Firstly a psychologist is considered a higher professional usually. While there are numerous types of psychologist the main ones relevant to what you are interesting in are clinical psychologist and counselling psychologist.

Clinical psychology is extremely difficult to get onto as a training programme which is a doctorate, it requires a degree / h. dip in psychology, usually a masters, and a lot of relevant experience. It pays the highest and the training tends to be paid for along with a salary during training. It is a researcher-practitioner model. You probably don't need me to tell you more about what a clinical psychologist does as I know less than Google does.

A counselling psychologist will do either a masters or a doctorate in counselling psychology, it too is difficult to get onto and requires the psychology degree and experience.

Both of these types of professionals are trained to do psychotherapy, but they also have other skills such as assessment and diagnostic skills and work from a scientific basis.

A psychotherapist / counsellor (the difference in meaning between the 2 has largely disappeared) who is not a psychologist or psychiatrist is not trained in psychology, does not conduct assessments and diagnoses, does not manage a persons overall treatment within a team setting, and tends not to base their work on the science of psychology. That is, they are not experts on human behaviour and mental illness, and are not qualified to diagnose a person with a mental illness or often work with a person severe mental illnesses.

They just do psychotherapy. Counselling and psychotherapy is based on using yourself as therapist as the primary agent of affecting therapeutic change in the client.

Becoming a psychotherapist takes less time, is less exclusive, and is less well paid than becoming a psychologist who does psychotherapy. It's very much a question of what you want and what you wish your options to be in the future. Be aware that working as a psychotherapist in private practice is not a good way to make a living, the money just isn't very good in it.

If you choose psychotherapy there are a load of courses out there both at undergraduate and postgraduate level. Search for threads on this forum about such courses. If masters / doctorates are important to you then you may wish to take a look at the universities such as UCD and DCU over DBS. DCU for example has developed a structure which facilitates study from a foundation course in psychotherapy right up to doctorate in psychotherapy.

There is a foundation course starting in April in IICP that is a good course:
http://www.iicp.ie/index_files/Page380.htm

I_am_Jebus

Hi

Thanks a million for taking the time to provide all that information. It has definitely "shored" up my thinking on it.

I would definitely prefer to go down the Clinical / Counselling Psychologist route.

I reckon I've pretty much decided to go with the H.Dip in Psychology in DBS for the next 2 yrs.

I see that most doctorates are limited to very few spaces per year,so obviously will be waiting a long while.

I am just wondering could you recommend a Masters that would be useful for pursuing the Clinical / Counselling Psychologist route. There doesn't appear to be a Masters in Counselling Psycho. except Cork but I can't really operate outside Dublin. Would the Masters in Psychotherapy be useful even if you wanted to go "higher" career wise - as in Clinical/Counselling Pychologist.

Just wondering would this be a better option at DCU in order to get the "right stuff" for Clinical/Counselling Psych. - It's 3 yrs H Dip and an additional year for MSc. http://www.dcu.ie/prospective/deginfo.php?classname=GDPC&mode=full&originating_school=
Not sure if I am too late applying for the Sept 2010 Part time intake though.

Just finally, also wondering on completion of the H.Dip, what kind of jobs would I be eligible for to get clinical experience as required for the Doctorate.

Thanks for all your help.

hotspur

I_am_Jebus wrote: »

I am just wondering could you recommend a Masters that would be useful for pursuing the Clinical / Counselling Psychologist route. There doesn't appear to be a Masters in Counselling Psycho. except Cork but I can't really operate outside Dublin. Would the Masters in Psychotherapy be useful even if you wanted to go "higher" career wise - as in Clinical/Counselling Pychologist.

Trinity's counselling psychology was a Masters up until this year when they turned it into a doctorate. Doing any significant psychotherapy course before choosing to train in counselling psychology seems to me to be something of a waste as the counselling psychology course will replicate such training.

People ask here a lot for suggestions for Masters courses to help get into clinical if you do a search, and there are people on here better able to answer that than me. A research masters would help but that doesn't seem too relevant until you graduate from the H Dip you will be doing for the next 2 years. Doing maybe a foundation course in psychotherapy one night a week or on a Saturday for a few months might be a good idea. Apart from that getting some experience of clinical populations should be an aim.

I_am_Jebus wrote: »

Just wondering would this be a better option at DCU in order to get the "right stuff" for Clinical/Counselling Psych. - It's 3 yrs H Dip and an additional year for MSc. http://www.dcu.ie/prospective/deginfo.php?classname=GDPC&mode=full&originating_school=
Not sure if I am too late applying for the Sept 2010 Part time intake though.

You're unlikely to get onto that course without a relevant social science degree and / or clinical experience of some type. But anyway it's a different route, sometimes people who train in clinical do further psychotherapy training afterwards, but doing full training in psychotherapy beforehand plus doing a H Dip in psychology seems both unnecessary and taking too much on by far, not saying anything about costs.

I_am_Jebus wrote: »

Just finally, also wondering on completion of the H.Dip, what kind of jobs would I be eligible for to get clinical experience as required for the Doctorate.
Thanks for all your help.

Honestly? You won't really be eligible for much at all just having a H Dip or undergraduate degree in psychology. There are these whispered about magical posts called assistant psychologist, but they appear to be even less easy to get than getting onto clinical psychology courses.

My advice is find ways to volunteer in your spare time with clinical populations, and try to get in experience of a few different populations. Do a foundation course in psychotherapy somewhere to get a feel for it and maybe help you in their volunteering, then just enjoy your H Dip and think about a possible research Masters in something that interests you after it. If you get a chance to help in any capacity with research projects then take it. But I have a feeling the staff in DBS don't too much research.