Sligo is doing it wrong.

jimmmy

dardevle wrote: »

, how do you account for the growth in towns like Castlebar, Ballina,Athlone, and Tralee, where pop growth has been above the 50% mark... while Sligo has seen very small increase in pop, rather a shuffling of the existing population from the town to outline villages.

Sligo has obviously got too spread out - why try to make it like L.A. in the rain ? ...where everyone has to have a car and drive miles. As fossil fuels get more scarce and expensive the planners will see the folly of their ways in not just allowing but actually encouraging through tax breaks eg section 23 + section 27 developments in outlying areas eg Collooney and Collaney.
Too many ghost estates were allowed to be built, in the wrong areas, away from jobs, transport ( rail bus etc ) hubs, schools, colleges, hospital etc. There are industrial estates / retail parks in Collooney with virtually nobody in them, and where nobody ever will be in them either, and which some say are now worth 15% of the construction cost. The planners did not allow Sligo to develop from the centre out, and some business which did well in Sligo found when they moved to Collooney they suffered, and have since closed in Collooney. That is why Sligo has not grown. Visiting shoppers to Sligo cannot be expected to try to find places like Cleveragh, Duncans island, Carraroe etc, and travel between them. Sligo did not develop a critical mass ; allowing development outside Sligo has been shown to be detrimental. Plus of course there should be more car parking spaces, preferably free , close to the centre of Sligo, and easily accessible from the inner relief road, which most people entering Sligo travel on.

T runner

dardevle wrote: »

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if you want to exclude those towns from the commuter belt, how do you account for the growth in towns like Castlebar, Ballina,Athlone, and Tralee, where pop growth has been above the 50% mark... while Sligo has seen very small increase in pop, rather a shuffling of the existing population from the town to outline villages.

to parahrase a quote from another thread..." in the 70's Sligos population was 14,000 and Galways 21,000, Galway has now 72,000.we are missing out."



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I did point out in my last post that rural-urban migration has not had as large an impact on Sligo. Rural migration has had a huge affect on the population of Castlebar for example. Tralee is similar and its population has been fed by a large migration from rural areas in Kerry. Co Sligo is simply too sparsely populated for the rural-urban type migration to have had an affect like in these other towns.

You have also ignored that 32,000 people live in the Sligo-Strandhill and Sligo-Drumcliff electoral areas.

There is potential for growth in Sligo although it will never be a Galway. The gateway project if successful would see investment brought in from outside which should affect the cachment populations of these gateway cities.

dardevle

T runner wrote: »

The gateway project if successful would see investment brought in from outside which should affect the cachment populations of these gateway cities.

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..in the same way the chamber of commerce, if successful, would see investment brought in from outside, ( as proscribed in the CoC mission statement) which should affect the catchment population.





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T runner

dardevle wrote: »

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..in the same way the chamber of commerce, if successful, would see investment brought in from outside, ( as proscribed in the CoC mission statement) which should affect the catchment population.





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The cachment population is atleast 32,000. This is about what youd expect.
The Gateway project would envisage a future population of 50,000.

We will need a powerstation for that though and they aint cheap.

darealtulip

T runner wrote: »

The cachment population is atleast 32,000. This is about what youd expect.
The Gateway project would envisage a future population of 50,000.

We will need a powerstation for that though and they aint cheap.

What does cachment population?

T runner

darealtulip wrote: »

What does cachment population?

Its the area around a town and city that depends on it. The area for example where most of the workers would work in the town/city. Strandhill, Rosses Point, Drumcliff, Ballisodare, Cooloney, etc would be in the cachment area of Sligo.

darealtulip

T runner wrote: »

Its the area around a town and city that depends on it. The area for example where most of the workers would work in the town/city. Strandhill, Rosses Point, Drumcliff, Ballisodare, Cooloney, etc would be in the cachment area of Sligo.

Thanks! Thankfully you understood what I ment, forgot to write 'mean'

redarmyblues

Table of population increases of Irish Counties (without County Boroughs) from 2002 to 2006, again Sligo has the smallest population growth.

Carlow 9.4
Kildare 13.7
Kilkenny 9
Laoighis 14.1
Longford 10.7
Louth 9.3
Meath 21.5
Offaly 11.3
Westmeath 10.4
Wexford 13
Wicklow 10
Clare 7.4
Kerry 5.5
North Tipperary 8.2
South Tipperary 5.2
Connacht 8.6
Leitrim 12.2
Mayo 5.4
Roscommon 9.3
Sligo 4.6
Cavan 13.2
Donegal 7
Monaghan 6.5
State 8.2

redarmyblues

The population of Sligo/Strandhill and Sligo/Drumcliff at the 2006 census is 32645 up from 27060 in 1979 an increase of 20% (compared with 15% for Sligo Town) so claims of massive increases in the hinterland are wrong. Of course these electoral areas are not Sligo town as they strech from Bunduff on the Sligo Leitrim border to Colloney and east towards Ballintogher. If these electoral divisions were indicative of urban areas then Enniscorthy with 31797 would be much of a muchness with Sligo.
Source again is the CSO.

T runner

redarmyblues wrote: »

The population of Sligo/Strandhill and Sligo/Drumcliff at the 2006 census is 32645 up from 27060 in 1979 an increase of 20% (compared with 15% for Sligo Town) so claims of massive increases in the hinterland are wrong. Of course these electoral areas are not Sligo town as they strech from Bunduff on the Sligo Leitrim border to Colloney and east towards Ballyfarnon. If these electoral divisions were indicative of urban areas then Enniscorthy with 31797 would be much of a muchness with Sligo.
Source again is the CSO.

All these areas are basically within a 10k range of Sligo town and the people living there are dependent on the town as the choef supplier of employment. The Enniscorthy electoral areas ofcourse covers a huge geographical area that could be classified as rural ie The majority of the 31000 in the areas outside Enniscorthy town are NOT dependent on Enniscorthy for employment.


You seem to agree that population is not relevant. You still havent provided us with a source that said Sligo chamber of Commerce/Sligo CoCo etc have said that increasing the population of Sligo Borough is their objective. The slogan "making Sligo grow" on the chamber's site explicitly refers to
business, infrastructure etc as defined in their mission statement.

Can you provide us with a source that says specifically they want the population to grow?

Or is this thread just an excuse for a rant?

redarmyblues

bunduff is 29km and 27 minutes from sligo. Source google maps.
Sources close to the coc tell me, in a sinister development that plans are in hand to annexe dromahair, charlestown and the leitrim half of the glencar valley. An insider said "sure how else can you grow a county"

dardevle

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..just think how bad some of the other towns on the list must be feeling right now-
business growth, infrastructure growth, commercial growth,industrial growth.... but also cursed by population growth to support this, if only they had followed the model of Sligo CoC.;)




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T runner

dardevle wrote: »

...

..just think how bad some of the other towns on the list must be feeling right now-
business growth, infrastructure growth, commercial growth,industrial growth.... but also cursed by population growth to support this, if only they had followed the model of Sligo CoC.;)




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The point is that Sligo CoCo has never claimed that population growth in Sligo town was a goal of theirs. Nobody has. (Unless you can show us where Sligo CoCo has said this?)

Another point is that the population of the cachment area around Sligo has balooned. Strandhill is a completly different place to where I grew up in the 70's. It is now a suburban town of Sligo. The vast majority of people from strandhill who work work in Sligo town.

There are several reasons why Sligo's population has not grown like towns like Drogheda and Ill tell you this, the population of Drogheda has increased dramatically but there has been no reciprocal increase in Industry. All the new peopel work and commute to Dublin. If they had a choice between a 1-1.5 hour commute or a 20 min commute form the cachment area of Sligo I know which theyd choose in a heartbeat.

But I forgot we're from Sligo so lets be negative. Youre right Sligo is undoubtedly the worst town in Ireland.

T runner

redarmyblues wrote: »

bunduff is 29km and 27 minutes from sligo. Source google maps.
Sources close to the coc tell me, in a sinister development that plans are in hand to annexe dromahair, charlestown and the leitrim half of the glencar valley. An insider said "sure how else can you grow a county"

The vast majority of the 32000 people live within 10k of Sligo and not in places like Bunduff. The thin sliver of land beside Benbulben and the sea must naturally go into the Sligo-Drumcliff area. Sure remove the 40-50 people who lifve in teh townland of Bunduff if it makes you feel better. BTW Are you denying the massive increases in population of places like Strandhill?

Population growth is not an issue for you, for me, for the CoCo or for Sligo chamber of comerce. Sligo Chamber of Commerce have not failed by their own standards on this issue because they never claimed population growth in Sligo Borough as an objective. What is this thread really about? Have you any solutions at all?

Shadow78

T Runner> what about towns like Ballina, Castlebar, Tralee. No need to point at east coast or midland towns within range of dublin.

T runner

Shadow78 wrote: »

T Runner> what about towns like Ballina, Castlebar, Tralee. No need to point at east coast or midland towns within range of dublin.

Several reasons have been pointed out in a previous post with possible explanantions as to why Sligo town was slow to grow. Rural to Urban migration has occurred in many towns including Sligo. The majority of Sligo County now lives within 10k of Sligo town. Rural migration is more prnounced in counties that have a bigger population naturally enough. Rural Sligo was extremely sparsely populated to start with.

There is absolutely no evidence to show that the population growth or lack was directly as a resultb of failed policies by local leaders which was the original claim by the OP. Again, what is this thread about?

tedshredsonfire

Have to say am with T runner here but op like what has been asked whats your solution? Run for local government or lobby for what you believe in its very easy to point the finger.

redarmyblues

T runner wrote: »

No, although that is possible that is not what I am saying. Business growth etc can occur in Sligo Borough without the population of that Borough increasing.

Possible but highly improbable.

You keeping harping on about massive increases in the the catchment area. I repeat that the population of Sligo/Strandhill and Sligo/Drumcliffe increased by 120% between 1979 and 2006 while the population of Sligo town increased by 115% yes the town and nearby rural area have done better than the town alone but the increases are not the massive increases you speak of. Furthermore you have twice stated that the populations of rural areas have fallen in the same period, this is not true. The combined populations of the Tubbercurry, Ballymote and Dromore rural area increased by 1% in the period.
If you are going to post on this topic, you first should do your research or else you risk making a fool of yourself. If you had bothered to read my posts instead of making it up as you go along you would know the purpose of the thread (It is clearly stated).

Shadow78

There is absolutely no evidence to show that the population growth or lack was directly as a resultb of failed policies by local leaders which was the original claim by the OP

you mean other than the evidence that sligo shows very poor growth in comparison to any other town on the list.

And if its not the people with influence on Sligo that are to blame who is then? the people with no influence?

Personally I think Sligo has sufferened from poor local leadership and poor political clout.

dardevle

Shadow78 wrote: »

Personally I think Sligo has sufferened from poor local leadership and poor political clout.

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some would have you believe to question this "leadership" is too negative, better to only look at the positive- rather than reality.

oh and if you do question then you have to also run for office.... otherwise no criticism is allowed,:rolleyes:


:cool: sunshine, lollipops and rainbows forum that way.>>>>>>>



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tedshredsonfire

dardevle wrote: »

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some would have you believe to question this "leadership" is too negative, better to only look at the positive- rather than reality.

oh and if you do question then you have to also run for office.... otherwise no criticism is allowed,:rolleyes:


:cool: sunshine, lollipops and rainbows forum that way.>>>>>>>



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dardevle, not suggesting everyone needs to run for office but how many here put in a proposal to any development plan or got involved in a lobby group to put forward their point of view on the development of Sligo?
I see a lot of giving out here but very little they should have done... etc etc.
I just feel we are getting a bit Joe Duffyesq on Sligo boards.

My golden rule on complaining is try never to do it as 80% of the people I complain to don't care and the other 20% are kinda glad I have the problem in the first place.

dardevle

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whenever people run out of steam in a discussion its the same old lines that get thrown out" well why don't you run for office?"......."whats your soloution?"...."what are you going to do about it?"

you say that you try not to complain.... fair enough, but i'm sure you would speak up if you got ripped off in a shop or had a ****ty experience with a service you paid for that did'nt deliver....why should local government be any different, if i feel that they are not delivering then i will speak up, we are entitled to question on promises not fulfilled, and to say that people should be silent because others don't want to rock the boat is just wrong.

i don't have to have the soloution before i am allowed to talk, if i feel that the local government vehicle is going in the wrong direction then as a passenger i am entitled to speak up.
the first step is to stop it proceeding further in the wrong direction.!
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Vintagekits

I love it - "Helping Sligo Grow"

from the very group that fought tooth and nail to stop that for 30 years!

tedshredsonfire

I could be wrong here but I get the vibe that sligo chamber isn't liked all that much. I get it lets move on.

dardevle, not suggesting you say nothing at all or not rock the boat but lets have ideas as well. do we just stop the bus and stay stopped? at least if we are moving we can adjust while we move instead of stopping completely.
as for complaining if I have a bad experiance shoppping i usually just don't go there anymore. obviously with local government we dont have a choice so have to be heard.
My question to all the contributors on here is what are they doing aside from complaining. How many made a submission to the next development plan or eastern bridge plan or at least joined a group lobbying for their point of view? or will they complain when something passes through like there was nothing that could be done about it.
The biggest problem in ireland at present is apathy. Not directing that at any member here just asking the question.

jimmmy

They have actually fought tooth and nail to encourage that for 30 years, and some of their members have worked 6 or 7 days weeks doing their bit in trying to help Sligo grow. Any business which wants to set up in Sligo - the same as in any other similar size centre in Ireland today - has a multitude of empty shops, units, sites etc to choose from, to buy or lease, and would be free to join their local chamber of commerce the same as they would in any other town or city. If anything, time has proven that the chamber of commerce as well as the general population should have objected more about the ghost estates which were allowed to be built in outlying areas : Sligo should have developed from the centre out, with proper planning.

T runner

redarmyblues wrote: »

Possible but highly improbable.
You keeping harping on about massive increases in the the catchment area

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Incorrect, I have pointed out massive increases in places like Strandhill. The cachment area includes Sligo town. Ill ask again do you deny these increases? Do you deny what everyone knows in that the balooned population of Strandhill for example all are due to people working in Sligo town?

I repeat that the population of Sligo/Strandhill and Sligo/Drumcliffe increased by 120% between 1979 and 2006 while the population of Sligo town increased by 115% yes the town and nearby rural area have done better than the town alone but the increases are not the massive increases you speak of.

People in Strandhill and Ballisodare would completely disagree withy you obviously. Again I dont recall speaking of massive growth in the general cachment area.

Furthermore you have twice stated that the populations of rural areas have fallen in the same period, this is not true.

Please show me where I have I have stated that the population in rural areas has fallen?

I have stated that there is rural to urban migration and that the rural populations were not large to begin with. The rural-urban proportion has changed. Please stop misrepresenting me to try and prove whateber it is you are trying to prove.

If you are going to post on this topic, you first should do your research or else you risk making a fool of yourself.

Im sorry but looking up a few stats on the CSO site misrepresenting a slogan on the Chambers site and making 10 out of 2 + 2 does not add up to research. (BTW you have not given us exact links to the your sources. Why not? Where on the CSO site are you getting your population)

You feel I am making a fool of myself? I dont really react to antagonism, no point. It usually is an indication that the person attempting the antagonism is not capable of winning his/her argument by more conventional means.

If you had bothered to read my posts instead of making it up as you go along you would know the purpose of the thread (It is clearly stated).

Oh I have read your post. You claimed that Sligo Chamber of Commerce had as their goal an increase in the population of Sligo Borough and they have failed in this due to a a comparatively slow increase in Sligos population.

Infact Sligos Chamber of Commerce mission statement makes no such claim, it claims only to officially (surprise, surprise) target growing the business base in Sligo. (Unofficially they are probably more concerned with protecting their own businesses but nothing new here--thats what Irish chambers are like, French ones, for example being quite different)

Again I ask you: Where has any organisation stated as a goal that they are interested in increasing Sligos population? If you cant provide this the OP is meaningless and if you ignore this question once again we can assume it is actually just an excuse for another useless rant.

You have also stated that you dont agree that population variances is a relevent gauge of progress or otherwise but that you are only bringing it up because the chamber of commerce did. You really do need to show us exactly where they have stated this population increase target.

If you cant maybe let it lie and next time think it through the next time a slogan on a website annoys you. Ill await your answer to the above question with interest.......

T runner

dardevle wrote: »

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whenever people run out of steam in a discussion its the same old lines that get thrown out" well why don't you run for office?"......."whats your soloution?"...."what are you going to do about it?"

you say that you try not to complain.... fair enough, but i'm sure you would speak up if you got ripped off in a shop or had a ****ty experience with a service you paid for that did'nt deliver....why should local government be any different, if i feel that they are not delivering then i will speak up, we are entitled to question on promises not fulfilled, and to say that people should be silent because others don't want to rock the boat is just wrong.

i don't have to have the soloution before i am allowed to talk, if i feel that the local government vehicle is going in the wrong direction then as a passenger i am entitled to speak up.
the first step is to stop it proceeding further in the wrong direction.!
....

This thread claims to be about how the Chamber of Commerce claimed population growth as an aim and failing in that target.

If you feel this is true then please show us where the chamber of commerce has made this claim (doesnt look like the OP can). If you srea satisfied that this claim is valid then you can complain here lor make your point here, but you should also complain to the chamber or take other more meaningful action IMO.

I have a feeling that this thread is just about blowing more hot air though....
The latest made up excuse for a useless rant.

dardevle

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perhaps we can get the CoC change their motto to "helping Sligo grow- in all area's except population"!


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tedshredsonfire

Mission statement from Sligo COC website.
"Sligo Chamber exists to further the interests of its members by influencing all appropriate public and private bodies or agencies, to promote the long term economic developments of the county and to create, maintain and develop an environment and infrastructure in County Sligo which is conducive to the development of local business, industry and commerce".

dardevle

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2 questions Ted..... do you believe that population growth should occur (even by default) if the necessary business, commercial, and industrial growth happens?,

and if you do, is the absence of one(pop growth) not an indicator as to the absence of the other?



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