Do some people feel that Ireland should win the EURO qualifying group?

Liam O

Was reading the Trap to Nigeria thread and there seemed to be a feeling amongst some posters that we SHOULD qualify for the EUROs because our group is weak. Well, is it really that weak? Italy weren't at their best in our WC group and Russia I would say are on the same level.

Then there's Slovakia. They have been steadily improving and aren't whipping boys. They are on a higher level than Bulgaria anyway. They did what we couldn't and knocked out the top seeds to make it to the WC.

If I remember back to the draw for the WC playoffs it was Russia who a lot of people didn't want to draw and they've only had 1 bad game since then and suddenly they are weak?

While I think Ireland should build on the WC qualifying I'm not getting my hopes up. The team play shocking football at times and are very limited. There is now a sense of expectation which I don't think is totally warranted and while I would love to make it to the Euros I just have my doubts about the team's ability.

Reganio 2

Russia aren't as good as Italy no where near as good. Slovakia aren't great at all. If these Premiership players are worth their salt they should qualify easy squeasy... Which they won't they may qualify but they will make it harder work than it should be.

m@cc@

Irish teams have traditionally done well when there isn't that much expected of them. I recall us being in a group with Russia and Switzerland where similar things were said about the Irish team and look how that ended up. I'll stick with us being favourites for the runner-up spot. Russia are still a better team than Ireland no matter who is in charge of either team.

lordgoat

I don't think that 'should qulaify' is the best phrase. I think with this group we have a good chance of getting results again all the opposition. We look to win all our home games against pretty much all teams and then get what's needed away. As the OP said we need to build on the last campaign and that to me is finishing top or very close to it.

Ferris_Bueller

I think for me anyway, its the fact that we have a chance of finishing top for the first time in a while. Now having said that we could finish 2nd or 3rd just as easily, but the fact that 1st is a realistic option for us this time is nice. Russia won't be as strong as Italy, especially with Hiddink gone, however they will still be a stronger team than us.

L'prof

We'll finish second and lose in the qualifiers...surprisingly. I think the only way we'll make the Euros is best runner-up!

noodler

We always have a chance.

Italy are better than Russia - Italy win in nearly any circumstance no matter where they are playing. It doesn't affect them.

Russia will depend on their mood on the day. One of the few times I would like to play the big team in the group at home first.

lordgoat

noodler wrote: »

Russia will depend on their mood on the day. One of the few times I would like to play the big team in the group at home first.

I'd agree with this alot

Mitch Connor

i don't think we should win it, but we should certainly be expecting to get close to it.

Lukekul

Of course we're going to win it, only a communist would think otherwise, are you a communist, punk?







but i suppose there is a few (former) communists who might think otherwise

ironictoaster

Definitely, that game against France proved Ireland can play good football when they want to. I really think we have a good chance of topping that group. Also Russia are definitely overrated, but shouldn't be taken too easily nevertheless.

DazMarz

18 points required from the home/away games against Macedonia, Armenia and Andorra. This is a must.

Beat Slovakia at home, and take what happens in Bratislava in our stride.

Russia is always gonna be a bitch.

Above all else, Ireland must beat Macedonia, Armenia and Andorra home and away in order to have any real chance of topping/coming 2nd in the group.

SlickRic

not should.

can.

very different.

flahavaj

Russia are better than us. But not that much better than us that we don't have a real chance of winning it IMO.

~Rebel~

Agree with Ric, we CAN win the group, but it wont be all that easy.

There isn't a massive deal to be made of comparing ourselves to Russia directly, as that only counts for 2 games. I can however seeing Russia taking very close to maximum points in their home fixtures and doing well enough in the away matches too.

We're well capable of doing the same, but I just have a feeling Russia are more likely to perform close to their ability more often then we are over the course of the campaign. Regardless who tops, i think it will be very very close.

Xavi6

I don't think we will qualify. I'm a cynic when it comes to the national team and I think we will struggle against Macedonia and Slovakia.

It'll depend on how many points Russia drop, not how many we gain.

keane2097

"Believe-a your-a-self"

Johnny Utah

DazMarz wrote: »

18 points required from the home/away games against Macedonia, Armenia and Andorra. This is a must.

Beat Slovakia at home, and take what happens in Bratislava in our stride.

Russia is always gonna be a bitch.

Above all else, Ireland must beat Macedonia, Armenia and Andorra home and away in order to have any real chance of topping/coming 2nd in the group.

If we have any notion of qualifying, then we have to beat the weaker teams in the group. I think the problem is we're not clinical enough or else we're too naive or too honest. For example, when we played the first leg play-off against France in Croker, I noticed some of the French players were timewasting at the end of the match. Lloris went down at the end of the match to use up a bit of time and I think a couple of other French players were timewasting too. Anyway, the point is that we should be a bit more shrewd when it comes to killing off games. A case in point is the game against Georgia away. We should have wrapped the game up at 2-0, but we sat back and invited them onto us, which was suicidal imo. They scored in injury time iirc. Georgia ultimately finished bottom of our group, but they could have easily got a draw out of that match because of our naivety.

Also drawing away to Montenegro was very disappointing. If we have ambitions of winning the group or even securing a play-off, then we must beat the weaker teams, home and away.

Xavi6 wrote: »

I don't think we will qualify. I'm a cynic when it comes to the national team and I think we will struggle against Macedonia and Slovakia.

It'll depend on how many points Russia drop, not how many we gain.

I agree with Xavi here. Ireland (for as long as I remember) have always struggled against the lesser teams for some reason. I think we will drop points to Macedonia which will ultimately cost us dearly. Probably get a play-off place, but will lose out again.

monkey9

I honestly think this group is winnable, but Ireland being Ireland, probably second at best again!!

For a long time, we have lacked the killer instinct to really see off the 'weaker nations', and have also seemed happy with moral victories against the bigger nations, rather than actual victories.

Having said that, Russia appear to be a declining force, and this group offers us a reasonably decent chance of getting that elusive first place.

OPENROAD

Can't see Ireland topping the group, they are in a battle for second imo.

Liam O

I think that people really are underrating the Russians tbh. They are a borderline top team and have plenty of world class players. They made it to the semis of the last EUROs and I can't see Ireland matching them. Russia could have a bad qualifying but they are too strong for Ireland imo.

I think it depends on if Trapattoni builds on the performance in Paris and lets the team go for games instead of the defensive approach that maybe cost us a couple of points in the group.

The thing is, I don't think that people should expect that we will qualify because realistically I think we have the third best team in the group.

OPENROAD

Liam O wrote: »

I think that people really are underrating the Russians tbh. They are a borderline top team and have plenty of world class players. They made it to the semis of the last EUROs and I can't see Ireland matching them. Russia could have a bad qualifying but they are too strong for Ireland imo.

I think it depends on if Trapattoni builds on the performance in Paris and lets the team go for games instead of the defensive approach that maybe cost us a couple of points in the group.

The thing is, I don't think that people should expect that we will qualify because realistically I think we have the third best team in the group.

Good post imo, fully agree with you re. the Russians, thing is I can see Ireland returning to the defensive approach again.

DazMarz

Liam O wrote: »

The thing is, I don't think that people should expect that we will qualify because realistically I think we have the third best team in the group.

Agree here. We're not seeded 3rd for nothing. I think that we will be lucky to do well in this group.

It's not being pessimistic, it's being realistic.

noodler

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Also drawing away to Montenegro was very disappointing.

I must disagree there. They are quite a good team, the heat was something else and the atmosphere was hostile. It was a decent, tense game and the 0-0 was not disappointing.

The home 0-0 is another matter but it was a dead rubber fixture.

monkey9

noodler wrote: »

I must disagree there. They are quite a good team, the heat was something else and the atmosphere was hostile. It was a decent, tense game and the 0-0 was not disappointing.

The home 0-0 is another matter but it was a dead rubber fixture.

Were you at the match??? I didn't even think heat was factor that night, i just wasn't aware of it (obviously, as i was watching on tv)

noodler

monkey9 wrote: »

Were you at the match??? I didn't even think heat was factor that night, i just wasn't aware of it (obviously, as i was watching on tv)

Amazingly I wasn't there, yet I know.

redout

I dont feel Ireland will nor could win the group.

Same old, same old.

We will be fighting for the playoffs.

Lets hope the trips to eastern europe dont fcuk us up because they will be tough.

LeBash

We should top this group. In reality the only game we should be fearing is Russia away on the fake pitch (everytime I have seen that ground, the away team have been shocking).

I dont think we will win the group though, and will finish second.

Every team in the whole draw wouldnt have wanted us or Bosnia in thier group cause we really should be second seed teams, but they are up and coming and we had a meltdown during the last Euro qualifiers.

The thing that might play in our favour is, the Russian league is on its break during some of the ties and we might come up against some off the pace players (not many unfortunetly).

OPENROAD

Am I correct in saying Ireland have only qualified for one Euro tournament :eek:

PHB

We've got a decent chance of topping this group. We haven't been able to say that in a long time, and beyond that, a different draw would have ensured we couldn't say it.

m@cc@

OPENROAD wrote: »

Am I correct in saying Ireland have only qualified for one Euro tournament :eek:

It's hardly that much of a surprise though. We were also the only unbeaten team in the Euro '92 competition. Unlucky in Euro 2000 as well.

DazMarz

It was only Euro '88 we qualified for, wasn't it???

OPENROAD

m@cc@ wrote: »

It's hardly that much of a surprise though. We were also the only unbeaten team in the Euro '92 competition. Unlucky in Euro 2000 as well.

Only qualified for one though and this one will be equally as tough imo, mad to underestimate the Russians imo.

honeymonster

DazMarz wrote: »

It was only Euro '88 we qualified for, wasn't it???

Sounds about right

LeBash

88 was the only one we quailified for.

We have come very close a few times though.

BTW, has anyone noticed England always seem to get a group the Boards XI could more than likely quailify from. Italy and Holland also got groups they should be disapointed unless they win every game.

DazMarz

LeBash wrote: »

BTW, has anyone noticed England always seem to get a group the Boards XI could more than likely quailify from. Italy and Holland also got groups they should be disapointed unless they win every game.

The wonderful world of seeding. Specifically designed to keep the bigger/better sides apart to ensure they all get to the tournament.

OPENROAD

LeBash wrote: »

88 was the only one we quailified for.

We have come very close a few times though.

BTW, has anyone noticed England always seem to get a group the Boards XI could more than likely quailify from. Italy and Holland also got groups they should be disapointed unless they win every game.

England are a top seeded team though as are the others.

As someone said third seeds is about right, Russia are still a top team imo, could be the play offs again.

OPENROAD

DazMarz wrote: »

The wonderful world of seeding. Specifically designed to keep the bigger/better sides apart to ensure they all get to the tournament.

Just like the Champions league etc

DazMarz

DazMarz wrote: »

The wonderful world of seeding. Specifically designed to keep the bigger/better sides apart to ensure they all get to the tournament.

OPENROAD wrote: »

Just like the Champions league etc

With any tournament under the FIFA umbrella, it is like that. Prefers the bigger sides... Might not be fair to the little guy, but what is.

Back to topic: Ireland always perform poorly against lesser sides, so stumbling against Macedonia (particularly away) would not be an impossibility.

For several players, this could be their last hurrah in terms of an international tournament in an Ireland jersey, so they might wanna pull their socks up and go out with a bit of a bang.

OPENROAD

When is first qualifier?

LeBash

DazMarz wrote: »

The wonderful world of seeding. Specifically designed to keep the bigger/better sides apart to ensure they all get to the tournament.

I understand the seeding of teams, but it could have been a hell of alot tougher.

2nd Seeds- Czech, Romania, Turkey, and imo Greece or Sweden would be tougher than the Swiss.

3rd Seeds- Us, Northern Ireland, Bosnia, Isreal and the Scots would have turned it on for that game as well.

Ok, so seeding keeps the big european players apart to make sure they make the tournement, but if im not mistaken I doesnt work on work ranking, but more on the status or thier domestic league.

Boskowski

What makes anyone think that Russia weak/declining is beyond me. They held Germany off til the very end in the WC qualifier. It took an unprecedented away win to overcome them and secure direct qualification. I remember they were more than handy in the last EC, too. Certainly in different spheres than Ireland.
For Ireland its same as usual IMO. Not impossible but will take punching above their weight to qualify directly. Considerably so if we're talking about 1st spot.

cooker3

I think what most people mean is not that we should but our chances of qualification are higher then they have been in recent campaigns which I think is right.
Our most recent match had the best Irish display in at least a decade. We have retained the same squad. We are on an upward curve and constantly improving. Russia are on downward curve and with Hiddink quitting there is no reason to think that will change.

In saying all this I wouldn't put our chances at 50%. Travel wise it's a tough group and I think we will drop points along the way. I think how our fixtures work out will prove to be very important.

As a fan, I am hopeful!

OPENROAD

cooker3 wrote: »

I think what most people mean is not that we should but our chances of qualification are higher then they have been in recent campaigns which I think is right.
Our most recent match had the best Irish display in at least a decade. We have retained the same squad. We are on an upward curve and constantly improving. Russia are on downward curve and with Hiddink quitting there is no reason to think that will change.

In saying all this I wouldn't put our chances at 50%. Travel wise it's a tough group and I think we will drop points along the way. I think how our fixtures work out will prove to be very important.

As a fan, I am hopeful!

I think the French match was a once off, a real cup game in which Ireland raised there game against a French team who had there problems. I don't think Ireland are on an upward curve, though that is just my opinion.

The draw could well have been tougher, and they could well get second spot, though looking at the odds, Ireland are not expected to qualify.

cooker3

OPENROAD wrote: »

I don't think Ireland are on an upward curve, though that is just my opinion.

Our last manager was a shambles. We are in a far better position even forgetting the French game. It's not even close.

Paul Tergat

SlickRic wrote: »

not should.

can.

very different.

Slick as per talks sense.

CHD

Should? No. Could? Obv yes but alot better chance than we have had in the past. We need Lansdowne to be a fortress and to cut out the away draws when we should burst on for 3 points. Hopefully we have a full panel for our tough away trips, Russia won't be the same team without Hiddink. Group is there for the taking but I doubt we will top it.

DazMarz

We won't top this group. No way. Russia, with or without Guus, are a far stronger side. And even if Guus leaves, the Mafiya will pay some other world class manager to take his place.

To finish 2nd, when we are only seeded 3rd, should be our biggest aim.

Ireland need to play well against the three weaker teams (Macedonia, Armenia, Andorra) and beat them home/away to have any hope of qualifying for Euro 2012, fact.

Paul Tergat

DazMarz wrote: »

We won't top this group. No way. Russia, with or without Guus, are a far stronger side. And even if Guus leaves, the Mafiya will pay some other world class manager to take his place.

To finish 2nd, when we are only seeded 3rd, should be our biggest aim.

Ireland need to play well against the three weaker teams (Macedonia, Armenia, Andorra) and beat them home/away to have any hope of qualifying for Euro 2012, fact.

I dont see why Ireland can't top the group.

As has been said, its not that you should but you definitely can.

And the bits on bold really annoy me. Aspire to finish top!

m@cc@

DazMarz wrote: »

Ireland need to play well against the three weaker teams (Macedonia, Armenia, Andorra) and beat them home/away to have any hope of qualifying for Euro 2012, fact.

Rafa?