Framebuilding II - Enigma Ti travel bike

Lumen

So Rottenhat was happy enough for me to tack on to his thread, but I decided to keep it clean by starting a new one.

Inspired by RH's experiences, and by Planet-X's (the boardsie, not the bike maker) Enigma Eclipse, and after about a year of procrastination and dithering, I've stuck a deposit down on a custom Ti Enigma.

The basic plan is:

- Titanium, because it looks nice, is light enough, and was the material robots were going to be made of when I grew up.

- Traditional (ish) horizontal top tube design, based on the Enigma Esprit (but perhaps with a degree or two of slope.

- Fast handling, but with a fraction extra chainstay to accomodate full mudguards.

- S&S couplers (titanium), so it can be transported on foreign trips in standard sized luggage, under normal weight limits.

The frame will be built in the UK by Mark Reilly of Enigma. I think only the head tubes will be outsourced, not quite sure. I chose Enigma for a variety of reasons, including the fact that they're based near where I grew up.

Since the frame is necessarily a totally custom build (the S&S couplers mean, for instance, straight gauge tubing in top and seat tube) I'm going over for a bit fit.

The bike should be ready in time for a family holiday in June.

I don't expect to have the same degree of photo story as Rottenhat got, but I'll post updates in case anyone's interested.

It'll look something like this:



...except with Ti bottle cages, seatpost and (maybe) stem, more rear clearance and a SRAM groupset (and maybe Cinqo cranks).

Now, back to fretting about how long I want my head tube...

el tel

Nice one, Enigmas are beautiful bikes. I'm sure it'll be class when it's done.

BTW - what is that thing on the top tube of the pictured bike?

DirkVoodoo

Must be joints for his crazy folding idea.

Well, at least you are going ahead with it

blorg

el tel wrote: »

BTW - what is that thing on the top tube of the pictured bike?

That is the S&S coupling, it allows you to split the bike in half for easier transport. With modern airline weight limits you might need to book this as a bike anyway though... or split it into two bags (between two people travelling.) Getting entire bike and box under 15kg would be a bit of a trial I suspect.

Caroline_ie

You sure it's a good idea ? Do you remember last time you ordered something custom made? ... I hope the bike is more successful than those jeans

niceonetom

and those glasses... sheesh.

This purchase makes a lot of sense to me though - and I'm sure that if you throw enough money at the issue you could come up with a sub 15kg package that is within the dimensions the airlines allow. Have you investigated what kind of boxes are available? More opportunities for wightweenism and bespoke tailoring there prehaps...

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

That is the S&S coupling, it allows you to split the bike in half for easier transport.

Yes, this is one close up:

blorg wrote: »

With modern airline weight limits you might need to book this as a bike anyway though... or split it into two bags (between two people travelling.) Getting entire bike and box under 15kg would be a bit of a trial I suspect.

niceonetom wrote: »

I'm sure that if you throw enough money at the issue you could come up with a sub 15kg package that is within the dimensions the airlines allow. Have you investigated what kind of boxes are available? More opportunities for wightweenism and bespoke tailoring there prehaps...

Yes, I have investigated. S&S do cases here.

The 10" Edge pull Butterfly Latch hard case weighs 15.2lbs, or 6.9kg.

The bike should easily be sub-8kg (frame perhaps 1350g, which is ~400g heavier than my Addict, which is itself about 7.3kg including computer, cages, pedals, pump, and 1950g wheelset). Fancy wheels on the roadmap too...

So I can't see the whole thing going over 15kg. I rarely travel with Ryanair for pleasure, and the luggage limits on other airlines are typically 20kg per passenger + cabin baggage

Aside from the weight, the packaging itself is pretty amazing. It should go down into a 26" x 26" x 10" case, which is actually smaller in two dimensions than an inflated tyre - you have to take the air out of the tyres to pack it.





I'm not really looking forward to all the assembly and disassembly, but being able to book flights with multiple airlines and transfers (which often happens on our family holidays) without any extra bike booking hassle is a major attraction.

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

So I can't see the whole thing going over 15kg. I rarely travel with Ryanair for pleasure, and the luggage limits on other airlines are typically 20kg per passenger + cabin baggage

It's not just Ryanair, Aer Lingus is also 15kg. Between the two of them that is basically 80% or so of all flights out of Dublin.

You can't just add up "published" weights for bike and box either, as you know they tend to be off and then there are all the other things you have to check like tools to reassemble... if you had other checked bags though that would be OK.

I have a sub-8kg bike and a 9.5kg bike box but packed up with the _absolute_ minimum I needed to travel to Spain last week (e.g. nothing but bike and a few allen keys in the box) I was at 21kg.

Just something to bear in mind. The size is impressive.

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

It's not just Ryanair, Aer Lingus is also 15kg. Between the two of them that is basically 80% or so of all flights out of Dublin.

Ah. But....

Aer Lingus wrote:

The maximum weight allowable for carriage of sports equipment is 15kgs/33lbs.

Aer Lingus wrote:

A maximum of 9 bags can be booked online per passenger. Please note that a total weight of checked bags must not exceed 20kgs/44lbs per passenger excluding infants.

If it's in a case which conforms to normal conventions for checked luggage, then it's not sports equipment. Probably.

DirkVoodoo

I may have said this before, but I think if you are going to start introducing weight limits then you should really go the whole hog and have a combined passenger+luggage limit.

Alternatively, you could just make your kids travel with one set of clothes (something neutral, ski/swim wear) and have more weight allowance for your bike and accessories.

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Alternatively, you could just make your kids travel with one set of clothes (something neutral, ski/swim wear) and have more weight allowance for your bike and accessories.

Yes, this is the plan. Usually it's 20kgx4 or 5.

80kg-100kg of luggage is a lot. We went away for 3 months with that amount, when one of them was a baby (a baby needs about as much logistical support as a US Army platoon).

I'm sure I can cut it down to 80kg+bike for the five of us on a short beach holiday.

cdaly_

Um, and the family's bikes?...

Lumen

cdaly_ wrote: »

Um, and the family's bikes?...

I think I have another year or two before that bridge needs to be crossed.

penexpers

Interesting project. I vaguely looked at S+S couplers a couple of years back. The impression I get from most people who have used them is that they are a good idea, but the amount of disassembly/assmebly required made it not worth while and they went back to using their normal bikes and just paying the airline bicycle fee.

abcdggs

if anyone needs an excuse to go for s&s

Lumen

penexpers wrote: »

Interesting project. I vaguely looked at S+S couplers a couple of years back. The impression I get from most people who have used them is that they are a good idea, but the amount of disassembly/assmebly required made it not worth while and they went back to using their normal bikes and just paying the airline bicycle fee.

Around an hour for assembly or disassembly seems normal. It remains to be seen whether this is a zen-like process or a massive PITA.

Aside from the actual airline shipping, ground transportation is another potential advantage. It can be difficult getting all our stuff in a taxi or hire car as it is, adding a full size bike box would be problematic.

I think the best alternative approach is something like a Bike Friday. They apparently cater for smaller riders:



..which could be handy when the kids get bigger.

The problem with a proper folder is that it would never get used in Ireland.

abcdggs

Lumen wrote: »

The problem with a proper folder is that it would never get used in Ireland.

you would also lose all euro points...

and i find them really odd to look at like one of those massive trailers with tiny wheels

while looking for an example i came across this

blorg

abcdggs wrote: »

if anyone needs an excuse to go for s&s

I managed to carry an entire frame fork and groupset over to Mr Skeff for assembly. A frame is very light, easiest way to carry it is head through the main triangle.

ROK ON

Lumen.
Looks like a nice bike apart from the bulge in the top tube which I understand is functional.

Given the amount of comfort issues that you have had it is probably about time that you got a custom made frame. Best of luck and well wear.

Query however. Given the hassle involved in dis/re-mantling there needs to be a benefit.
What is the exact benefit? How many trips would it take to recoup the investment. That is how many BikeBagFares will you avoid?

Impressed at the claimed weight.

Lumen

ROK ON wrote: »

Query however. Given the hassle involved in dis/re-mantling there needs to be a benefit. What is the exact benefit?

The incremental cost of the couplers adds a bit to the frameset cost, which I might recover through reduced baggage charges, but that's not the primary motivation.

I was planning on getting a custom Ti build at some point, for various reasons. You can't really have S&S couplers on carbon bikes (and retrofitting metal bikes is not trivial), so the custom Ti travel bike idea seemed natural.

The main motivation is less hassle at airports and transporting the bike at the destination, and fewer things to worry about when booking.

For instance, for our summer holiday we're planning on flying to Gatwick one evening, staying 30 miles away, then up early next morning to get back for a charter flight, with a coach transfer at the other end. Two airlines, eight individual transfers. With a bike box, every part of that journey is a hassle. As you know, travelling with young kids can be fraught. The last thing I need is more problems, particularly when I'm planning on cycling solo every morning on the holiday. I need to preserve a little goodwill.

If I was travelling solo it wouldn't be such an issue.

Raam

This looks like an interesting project. In the bike-box pics, it looks like the drive side crank has to come off. Apart from that, and the frame connections, there doesn't seem to be any assembly in excess of what you would need to do with a regular bike box.

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

This looks like an interesting project. In the bike-box pics, it looks like the drive side crank has to come off.

Yes, which could be interesting given that my SRAM cranks need about 40nm of torque from my mega-heavy torque wrench.

I can see myself at the beach bar on the first night with the frame over a bar stool using a parasol as leverage.

edit: I think cable splitters are recommended but not essential.

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

Yes, which could be interesting given that my SRAM cranks need about 40nm of torque from my mega-heavy torque wrench.

Maybe consider Shimano cranks, they are very easy to get on and off, just 12-15 Nm on two pinch bolts, you can use a small torque wrench for it. Pretty sure you could leave the rest of the groupset SRAM if you wanted.

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

Maybe consider Shimano cranks, they are very easy to get on and off, just 12-15 Nm on two pinch bolts, you can use a small torque wrench for it. Pretty sure you could leave the rest of the groupset SRAM if you wanted.

Good idea. Except they're a bit ugly.

I may just have to live with taking a 500g torque wrench.

Raam

Shimano cranks, ugly... maybe, but arguably a lot more functional and robust than SRAM. Less confusion over pronunciation also. Buying a crankset because it's novel or pretty is not a clever way to spend money.

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

Buying a crankset because it's novel or pretty is not a clever way to spend money.

On the other hand all cranksets are functional, so why buy one that you don't find aesthetically pleasing? I don't have anything against Shimano - they've done a fine job of advancing the art of forging.

I may end up doing a straight component swap from my Addict. I have enough parts lying around that I only need derailleurs and handlebars to build a complete race bike.

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

On the other hand all cranksets are functional, so why buy one that you don't find aesthetically pleasing? I don't have anything against Shimano - they've done a fine job of advancing the art of forging.

I can remove my crankset with a small hand tool. That's a lot more convenient than a 500g torque wrench.

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

On the other hand all cranksets are functional

cdaly_

Lumen wrote: »

For instance, for our summer holiday we're planning on flying to Gatwick one evening, staying 30 miles away, then up early next morning to get back for a charter flight, with a coach transfer at the other end. Two airlines, eight individual transfers. With a bike box, every part of that journey is a hassle. As you know, travelling with young kids can be fraught. The last thing I need is more problems, particularly when I'm planning on cycling solo every morning on the holiday. I need to preserve a little goodwill.

Once we had kids, the notion of flying on holiday pretty much went out the window. Holidays these days are stuff the car and roofbox, bikes on roof and rear rack and drive the hedgehog onto the ferry...

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

I can remove my crankset with a small hand tool. That's a lot more convenient than a 500g torque wrench.

Right, so now Mr Euro With The White Cervelo is lecturing me on practicality. :pac:

blorg wrote: »

Broken chainrings

Yes, fat people break light stuff.

FWIW, I don't really like the Red chainrings, but that's purely an aesthetic judgement and they haven't snapped on me yet, regrettably. Obviously I'm too puny. If they had, I'd have upgraded to Force rings.

Since I'm likely moving to crank power at some point the Red crankset will probably stay on the Addict.

Lumen

cdaly_ wrote: »

Once we had kids, the notion of flying on holiday pretty much went out the window. Holidays these days are stuff the car and roofbox, bikes on roof and rear rack and drive the hedgehog onto the ferry...

I was fine with ferries when I lived on the south coast of England.

Now the prospect of a day on a boat fills me with queasy dread.

DirkVoodoo

Laps of the deck FTW!

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

Yes, fat people break light stuff.

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

Right, so now Mr Euro With The White Cervelo is lecturing me on practicality. :pac:

This isn't about me.

Lumen wrote: »

Yes, fat people break light stuff.

FWIW, I don't really like the Red chainrings, but that's purely an aesthetic judgement and they haven't snapped on me yet, regrettably. Obviously I'm too puny. If they had, I'd have upgraded to Force rings.

Since I'm likely moving to crank power at some point the Red crankset will probably stay on the Addict.

Are you ditching the powertap?

DirkVoodoo

Raam wrote: »

Are you ditching the powertap?

Dibs if he is!!!

Raam

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Dibs if he is!!!

My post has an implied dibs.

DirkVoodoo

Raam wrote: »

My post has an implied dibs.

You can't imply dibs, it must be an explicit statement. That's like saying because I'm wearing a coat I'm implying "shotgun"...tut tut.

You can have it though, Dirk needs no power training, I go by feel, like the rules say!

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

Are you ditching the powertap?

Probably not until all my bikes have crank power. Which is not likely to happen, ever.

dave2pvd

cdaly_ wrote: »

Once we had kids, the notion of flying on holiday pretty much went out the window. Holidays these days are stuff the car and roofbox, bikes on roof and rear rack and drive the hedgehog onto the ferry...

Yes indeed. Bikes and beach toys for 2.5 people:



Lumen, some of my team-mates are using bikes built with S&S couplers. With $150 charges per flight for over-sized luggage over here, it makes a whole lot of sense. The feedback I have heard is that they work very well. Personally, I would opt for components that make reassembly straight-forward (elegant or otherwise). Also, don't use cable crimps - solder the ends instead. Oh - another 1: always unbolt your rear derailleur, as those barrel adjusters love to break.

ROK ON

Lumen wrote: »

I was fine with ferries when I lived on the south coast of England.

Now the prospect of a day on a boat fills me with queasy dread.

Fair point but slightly hypocritical given that you will spend time in three airports with all tue potential for fu+k ups that that brings. Plus when you arrive you will spend hours putting the thing together.
Time for advice;
1. Get the bike. You need one that fits and Ti custom should be good for you.
2. Don't get the thingy that folds the bike. You don't need it.
3. Try simpler holidays.
4. Rent a bike when abroadm
5. When you save money from all of this you will be able to fit power cranks to all of your bikes.

You know it makes sense.

DirkVoodoo

I think you should buy a light aircraft. Seriously.

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I think you should buy a light aircraft. Seriously.

I researched this a great deal about 6 years ago, and decided it was easier just to move country. Weather is a real problem for small planes.

cdaly_

Lumen wrote: »

Now the prospect of a day on a boat fills me with queasy dread.

Sea Bands FTW...

Lumen

I did a bike fit and build consultation today at Enigma's premises in the UK.

The premises are very "British industrial estate". Workshop downstairs, showroom/office upstairs. It was great to hear the chaps at work whilst we chatted over the build.

For bike fit they use the bikefitting.com system, although I didn't sit on the jig - they just measured height, inseam, shoulder width and arm length, then fed these into the software. It came out with a recommendation of 565mm top tube, which feels about right from my experience. Also validated my 40cm c-c handlebar preference.

Build decisions:

- Clearance and eyelets for full mudguard on the rear, but not on the front (probably going for Easton EA90 fork @ 350g). Apparently front clearance would require different frame geometry and would compromise my requirement for racy handling, whereas the rear only requires an additional 5mm of chainstay length, 415mm in total, 10mm more than my Addict. I don't really need a front mudguard anyway, and can always use a clip-on if it bothers me.

- Completely horizontal top tube. Apparently with round tubing (required for the S&S couplers) this will not look downward sloping like the tapered tubing on the off-the-shelf Esprit.

- Non-integrated headset (Chris King), for the classic look and also because the head tubes for integrated ones are made in Taiwan rather than in-house.

- A single 10mm headset spacer. Enigma normally build customs with 30mm of spacers, which surprised me, as I assumed that custom=no spacers, but apparently not - spacers keep the frame more compact, or something.

- Replaceable derailleur hanger.

- Bright polish finish with black decals.

There will not be much seatpost showing, but I'm planning on using my USE Alien Ti seatpost with a similar finish to the frame, so it should look quite neat and have a bit of give.

The CAD software is pretty cool.

Lumen

Problem for any extremely bored mechanical engineers out there...

I need to calculate the deflection of a square polycarbonate sheet of known flexural modulus of elasticity (say 350000 psi) and dimensions (650mm x 650mm x 3mm), supported at each edge, when subjected to a point mass (say 100kg) acting at the centre point of the sheet.

Workings are not required, although a spreadsheet formula would be handy so that I can vary the thickness (from 1mm-4mm) and elastic modulus to see the effect on deflection for different materials.

The bicycle-related reason for this request will become clear (ha ha) in due course....

Beasty

Lumen wrote: »

The bicycle-related reason for this request will become clear (ha ha) in due course....

Any prizes for guessing ....?:D

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

Problem for any extremely bored mechanical engineers out there...

I need to calculate the deflection of a square polycarbonate sheet of known flexural modulus of elasticity (say 350000 psi) and dimensions (650mm x 650mm x 3mm), supported at each edge, when subjected to a point mass (say 100kg) acting at the centre point of the sheet.

Workings are not required, although a spreadsheet formula would be handy so that I can vary the thickness (from 1mm-4mm) and elastic modulus to see the effect on deflection for different materials.

The bicycle-related reason for this request will become clear (ha ha) in due course....

I know the answer, but I'm not going to tell you.

lyders

Lumen wrote: »

Problem for any extremely bored mechanical engineers out there...

I need to calculate the deflection of a square polycarbonate sheet of known flexural modulus of elasticity (say 350000 psi) and dimensions (650mm x 650mm x 3mm), supported at each edge, when subjected to a point mass (say 100kg) acting at the centre point of the sheet.

Workings are not required, although a spreadsheet formula would be handy so that I can vary the thickness (from 1mm-4mm) and elastic modulus to see the effect on deflection for different materials.

I am actually studying plate theory at the moment, so I could answer this! But you asked for a mechanical engineer, so I'll leave it to them! Also psi??? Very American! We like real units this side of the Atlantic!

Lumen

lyders wrote: »

I am actually studying plate theory at the moment, so I could answer this! But you asked for a mechanical engineer, so I'll leave it to them!

You're just a mech eng working at really large scales, surely?

lyders wrote: »

Also psi??? Very American! We like real units this side of the Atlantic!

Gah, Euro fail - they came from whatever materials data sheet I was looking at. I think the answer is 3mm = not stiff enough, but I'll probably try it and suffer the consequences.

niceonetom

Ok, so it seems Lumen is building something.

I'm gonna go with... windtunnel. Anyone else got any guesses?

Chips Lovell

niceonetom wrote: »

Anyone else got any guesses?

Bullet proof windows for his car