Framebuilding II - Enigma Ti travel bike

CramCycle

niceonetom wrote: »

Anyone else got any guesses?

Super light weight Panniers

Beasty

niceonetom wrote: »

Anyone else got any guesses?

Yes - but I still want to know what the prize is

Jawgap

niceonetom wrote: »

Ok, so it seems Lumen is building something.

I'm gonna go with... windtunnel. Anyone else got any guesses?

Turbulent Bill

Lumen wrote: »

Problem for any extremely bored mechanical engineers out there...

I need to calculate the deflection of a square polycarbonate sheet of known flexural modulus of elasticity (say 350000 psi) and dimensions (650mm x 650mm x 3mm), supported at each edge, when subjected to a point mass (say 100kg) acting at the centre point of the sheet.

Workings are not required, although a spreadsheet formula would be handy so that I can vary the thickness (from 1mm-4mm) and elastic modulus to see the effect on deflection for different materials.

The bicycle-related reason for this request will become clear (ha ha) in due course....

Can't remember the plate formula, but something like Roark's Formulas will probably have it. The type of edge support will have a big effect on the deflection, I'm guessing these are simply-supported (i.e., as if resting on a knife-edge).

Lyders' comment on the unit mixing is spot on, wouldn't want you doing a Mars Climate Orbiter on your scales/bulletproof glass/BatBike.

biker_joe

Anyone here ever heard the phrase ?

"Shut up and RIDE your BIKE !!!!!"



Biker Joe

Lumen

Recent posts moved from Broomwagon, since it's more on-topic for this thread.

I'm building a case for my travel bike. The one from S&S is very expensive to ship and I can't get it back here with helpers in time for my trip.

Also, it will be fun to make one my self.

So I need to make a case 26" x 26" x 10" (sorry, I'm copying an American product).

The candidate materials are:

- 4mm ABS plastic, which is probably what S&S use (estimated from product weight). Likely case weight: 6.5-7kg depending on fittings. Since I could buy a case like this I'd rather do something different.

- Aluminium composite panel (e.g. 3mm polyethylene core sandwiched between two 0.3mm aluminium skins). This is typically used for signage applications. Stiff and light but probably not very puncture proof.

- 3mm or 4mm clear polycarbonate. The 4mm or 4.5mm variety is what goes into riot shields. Incredibly tough but a bit flexy. I can even get acrylic piano hinges to create a completely transparent case which would be useful for luggage inspections.

- Aluminium honeycomb. Similar in principal to ACP, but thicker. Used (for example) in aerospace and motorsport. Probably very stiff and light, but quite thick which may make fabrication difficult.



Most of these are very cheap (around €100 or less) for the quantities I need.

I have two choices of finishing. I can either keep the box very plain and use a nylon box cover (already ordered with cardboard box as backup) or add a handle, corner protection, fasteners etc and do without the cover.

Top choices right now are polycarbonate (for toughness) or ACP (for stiffness). Or maybe some weird mix of the two.

I could even use polycarbonate but add ribs for extra stiffness.

Raam

how about a large suitcase with a bit of foam and bubble wrap?

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

how about a large suitcase with a bit of foam and bubble wrap?

I did look around for cases in the approximately correct dimensions, but didn't find anything. Most cases only meet one of the 26"+ dimensions, not two.

I guess I could just get a massive case and shove all my clothes in with the bike, duh.

edit: no, I looked on ebags.com and couldn't find a single case measuring at least 26" in two dimensions

biker_joe

Anyone here ever heard the phrase ?

"Pack yourself into the suitcase and let your bike take the seat on the
plane !!!!!"



Biker Joe

biker_joe

Or two double padded wheel bags should do !! I mean this is carry on luggage yea ??

biker Joe

Lumen

biker_joe wrote: »

Anyone here ever heard the phrase ? "Shut up and RIDE your BIKE !!!!!"

biker_joe wrote: »

Anyone here ever heard the phrase ? "Pack yourself into the suitcase and let your bike take the seat on the
plane !!!!!"

I'm too far down this rabbit hole now, there's no going back.

Lumen

biker_joe wrote: »

Or two double padded wheel bags should do !! I mean this is carry on luggage yea ??

You can't take wheels on as carry on, they're too large.

The idea is that the bike and wheels go on as checked baggage which is small and suitcasey enough that it doesn't need to be booked on as a bike.

The problem is that US airline regs are very particular about luggage dimensions (62 inches adding up W+L+D). Whilst these regs don't apply in Europe, it seems all suitcases are manufactured to conform to them anyway, and since no-one wears square clothes they're all rectangular.

I could possibly use a wheel box and then stick the frame in with my clothes, but it's a messy solution and I'd still have to find a large enough case for the split frame.

Raam

wrap your collapsed frame+wheels in bubble-wrap and stick it in a black sack

biker_joe

All I can say Lumen is you must be minted ...... I hope the new Rothar is worth the ride ....

When I train away I bring a regular bike and NEVER fly RYAN AIR and use the regular bike bag to bring most of my cycling gear ....... I likes to train on bike
I race on .....so usually bring the good bike ! I think is was €80 return Feb just gone ....
But if you are going to be heading away a few times year, i suppose it will pay for itself after a couple of years !! :eek:

Biker Joe

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

wrap your collapsed frame+wheels in bubble-wrap and stick it in a black sack

I have a cardboard box solution already. I just wouldn't mind something with a bit more protection.

Making the hinges etc for the box is easy - I can do it with duct tape if required. It's just the materials choice which I'm deciding on, hence the stiff/stabproof/weight tradeoffs.

elduggo

or pretend you've a sore leg and rob one of the wheelchairs in the airport, and just stick your flashpoints on that.

they're not gonna stop a lad with a sore leg bringing his (superfast) wheelchair on board.

DirkVoodoo

biker_joe wrote: »

All I can say Lumen is you must be minted ......

You forgot two other (more likely) possibilities: anal and crazy.

I can't wait to see the final product, frankly travelling with my bike last year was more hassle than I would like and aside from Lumen's idea my only alternative would be a smaller, soft bag and a titanium frame. I'd still have to pay the sports equipment charges but at least it would be less than the 15Kg and I wouldn't be worried about a carbon frame being destroyed.

Lumen

biker_joe wrote: »

I hope the new Rothar is worth the ride ....

It'll only be my second drop bar road bike, there are loads of boardsies with more bikes than that. I just prefer quality over quantity.

It's not just for holidays, I'll be using it year round for all my non-racing cycling, including (possibly) commuting. Hence the clearance for a rear mudguard.

biker_joe

No Man go for it ..... I too have too many bikes ......... or so I am told !!
ha ha
Any new build or rebuild I undertake is done secretly in the shed !!!!!!
Not everyone is into leaving dipping tanks full of wood bleach in the kitchen.

Biker Joe

cdaly_

Lumen wrote: »

I can even get acrylic piano hinges to create a completely transparent case which would be useful for luggage inspections.

Lumen: It's a suitcase, normal check in baggage.

Airport check-in staff: No it's not, it's a bike. Gotta book a bike on the flight. That'll be EUR200 extra please...


Personally I'd go with an opaque case...

Chips Lovell

Lumen,
Ever seen or read The Day of the Jackal?

Coronal

Lumen wrote: »

Top choices right now are polycarbonate (for toughness) or ACP (for stiffness). Or maybe some weird mix of the two.

I could even use polycarbonate but add ribs for extra stiffness.

Just to throw in some experience with these materials and planes;

I travel with a sport rifle a fair bit and have a toughened polycarbonate case, ribbed, as you were thinking of doing. A mate has ACP and toughened plastic. My case has been banged around a fair bit but it more or less without a scratch, the plastic on his has been bashed in, as have the alu corners.

I think my case is about 4mm polycarbonate or something, and it's pretty tough. Flexible, but the ribs help quite a bit, as do the dimensions to some extent. I've jumped on the thing, as have many others (gotta test it first), and it's still perfect.

Cool project

Lumen

Coronal wrote: »

I travel with a sport rifle a fair bit and have a toughened polycarbonate case, ribbed, as you were thinking of doing. A mate has ACP and toughened plastic. My case has been banged around a fair bit but it more or less without a scratch, the plastic on his has been bashed in, as have the alu corners.

Thanks, that makes sense. The alu skins on the ACP are very thin, whereas polycarbonate is the same all the way through. I'll be using compression members to brace through the spokes, and the rims will give some stiffness in the other plane, so the lack of stiffness of polycarbonate may not be an issue. Polycarbonate is also transparent to x-ray so will probably help with security.

@cdaly: yeah, I was thinking of clear polycarbonate inside the box cover as an alternative to the cardboard box. If I do without the cover I'll definitely use non-transparent materials.

blorg

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

a smaller, soft bag and a titanium frame. I'd still have to pay the sports equipment charges but at least it would be less than the 15Kg and I wouldn't be worried about a carbon frame being destroyed.

Titanium frames are crazy expensive and not as indestructible as you might think. I would never travel with my Ti racer in a soft bag. In fact one of the reasons I got the carbon Planet X in the first place was that I'd have something I could take on a plane without being quite as worried about it!

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

Titanium frames are crazy expensive and not as indestructible as you might think. I would never travel with my Ti racer in a soft bag. In fact one of the reasons I got the carbon Planet X in the first place was that I'd have something I could take on a plane without being quite as worried about it!

It's worth pointing out that (a) your Planet-X frame is worth about a tenth that of your Litespeed, and is therefore practically disposable (b) whilst Ti is in principle repairable, your Litespeed uses very thin walled and unusually shaped tubes which would probably involve shipping back to Tennessee for repair.

If you had the choice between taking a €1500 carbon frame and a €1500 Ti frame with normal tubing I'd guess the plastic one would stay at home.

I imagine the Planet-X gives a very similar ride to titanium given that it's so flexy.

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

It's worth pointing out that (a) your Planet-X frame is worth about a tenth that of your Litespeed, and is therefore practically disposable (b) whilst Ti is in principle repairable, your Litespeed uses very thin walled and unusually shaped tubes which would probably involve shipping back to Tennessee for repair.

If you had the choice between taking a €1500 carbon frame and a €1500 Ti frame with normal tubing I'd guess the plastic one would stay at home.

That is basically my thinking all right with the PX, it would be a lot cheaper than the Litespeed to replace.

Ti tends to be more expensive than carbon though. I don't think it makes sense buying a (normal, full size) Ti bike for travel because you think it is in some way more robust in terms of knocks. Invest in a decent bike box instead.

I take my Ti tourer on planes unboxed. It's quite heavy, plain gauge tubing.

Lumen

Weight weenie bike box v1.0.

Made of:

- 10mm internally ribbed polycarbonate sheet (from B&Q)
- Gorilla tape on inside and outside of each edge.
- S&S box cover.
- S&S compression members.

Total weight: 4.1kg.

Tests passed so far: 69kg static load (me) on largest side, with compression members in place.



(click for full size versions)

niceonetom

There was something niggling in back of my mind about this and it's finally settled...

Lumen wrote: »

So I need to make a case 26" x 26" x 10" (sorry, I'm copying an American product).

Aren't road wheels 27" or thereabouts? What am I missing here?

The homemade box looks good to me (needs foam!).

Static loads are a piece of piss though. Try dropping it from a height onto one of its corners. That'll learn it.

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

Aren't road wheels 27" or thereabouts? What am I missing here?

Road wheels are 622mm at the bead seat, a little more at top of the rim. Measuring a partially inflated tyre, I decided that 640mm would be right. The walls of the box are 10mm (x2) so that's the 660mm (26") exterior dimension. The idea is that I partially inflate the tyres to take the load off the rim (and retain carbon holiday wheel compatibility).

A major advantage of the structured polycarbonate sheet is that it's slightly soft and squidgy, so I don't need to cover the inside in felt or anything. I have tube covers for the frame, and may use some sort of pipe lagging inside those.

Since the bike will be about <8kg, my padding budget is currently almost 3kg in the black even for the 15kg Ryanair limit. I think I'll add some extra panels around the lid to add stiffness.

blorg

You are nuts. Looks good, carry on.

Lumen

I added another pic with some wheels in it. The entire height of the box is taken up by the hubs (with skewers removed).

It's not immediately clear where the rest of the bike is going to go, but I'm sure it'll all work out somehow.

I'll find out in a couple of weeks...

DirkVoodoo

Ribbed polycarbonate, for her pleasure?

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Ribbed polycarbonate, for her pleasure?

Indeed, the weight savings may allow her to pack a hairdryer.

....

edit: here's my post from the Images of Beauty thread, with relevant posts (about practical issues rather than aesthetics) moved here so I can respond better.

Built up my new custom Enigma travel bike last night.

Will post more in the specific thread at some point, but components are:

- Custom Enigma Ti frameset with S&S Ti couplers. 570mm toptube.
- Easton EA90 SLX fork
- SRAM Red shifters, Force mechs, Red chain
- HED Ardennes wheelset, KCNC skewers, Conti 4000S tyres/racelight tubes
- DA7900 12-25 cassette
- Zipp SL bars, SRAM bartape
- Planet-X 120mm Ultralight stem
- Planet-X Ultralight CNC brakes
- USE Alien Ti seatpost
- Spesh Toupe 143mm saddle
- Lifeline Ti cages
- Cinqo Saturn powermeter cranks, shared with my other bikes

Total weight as pictured is around 7.5kg. More pics here.

I'll be fitting the cable splitters and computer mount tonight, then seeing if it all goes in the box.

As the pic shows, there is a bit of a problem with lack of drop on the rear brakes (I specced enough clearance for a full guard at the back), so I may need to find some light, good looking medium drop brakes. Suggestions welcome.

Enigma actually got the finish wrong - I order polished - but I think it looks OK. They've offered to sort it out, but not sure that's going to be practical. Needs carbon or brighter metal cages to add some contrast.

'68 Fastback

Lovely bike Lumen. I like the matte finish too.
I spend alot of my time packing pieces of art for international transport and I have to say that wheel box looks flippin deadly! Is that a Corex box in a nylon case? Sorry, I'm a geek.

Lumen

'68 wrote:

I spend alot of my time packing pieces of art for international transport and I have to say that wheel box looks flippin deadly! Is that a Corex box in a nylon case? Sorry, I'm a geek.

More info here.

The material is Coratherm Twinwall Polycarbonate sheet (see here).

The bike should be under 12kg boxed and bagged, so I never need be away from a bicycle again, until it gets lost by the baggage handlers.

'68 Fastback

Nice!

Corex is just a brand name for the same stuff. They also use it for sealing the back of large canvases and sometimes travel crates for short distances.
Will you be sealing that top edge? Its right under the zipper and if water gets down there it might comprimise the tape on the bottom joins. it wouldn't take much tape to do but it might help make the crate last alot longer, especially if its likely to spend some time on a runway.

Lumen

'68 wrote:

Corex is just a brand name for the same stuff. They also use it for sealing the back of large canvases and sometimes travel crates for short distances. Will you be sealing that top edge? Its right under the zipper and if water gets down there it might comprimise the tape on the bottom joins. it wouldn't take much tape to do but it might help make the crate last alot longer, especially if its likely to spend some time on a runway.

Good idea. I'll probably pack a roll of tape for repairs. The Corex stuff is fantastic, perfect combination of stiffness, puncture resistance and some surface squishyness.

niceonetom

Well done Lumen, 'tis a strange and wondrous thing. Have you taken it for a ride? Pleased with the fit?

Now, pics of it in the box or GTFO!

Chips Lovell

LOL. Pics of your box or GTFO.

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

Now, pics of it in the box or GTFO!

See below. It fits, just. I taped the gaps around the lid after I put on the luggage straps. I might remake the box for the next trip with another 1cm or so in each direction - the bag has enough space for that.

I was up late last night fitting cable splitters and going through the whole disassembly, packing, unpacking, assembly process. Several times, checking which tools I was using. It's not the sort of thing I'd want to do for an overnight trip, but not too bad.

Bagged up including tools, pump etc it comes to around 13.1kg. I'll probably stick some towels in to stop things moving around.

I haven't had time to ride it yet. Flying out tonight and can't be arsed to go through all that again!

(click for large versions)

levitronix

The two sockets which join the frame how tight do you have to get them or what way is it joined ?

Lumen

levitronix wrote: »

The two sockets which join the frame how tight do you have to get them or what way is it joined ?

They came with a special spanner. Not sure how much force, have used anti-seize but don't want to gall the threads. Under the threaded section are sets of meshing teeth so the threads are not taking the strain.

levitronix

Necessity breeds great invention !! such a nice bike never thought a split bike could still look classic

manwithaplan

I am seriously impressed. Don't know where you get the time but the results are superb. +1 on the matte finish. I think it looks fantastic.

In more ways than one, I suspect this project was more about the journey than the destination.

doozerie

@Lumen, Given the rarity of Enigma bikes around here (well, that I've seen anyway), and in particular the rarity of those that dismantle, I presume that was you cycling near Rathfarnham yesterday evening?

The question you directed at me shook me out of my train of thought which consisted of wondering how I could swap my rusting commute bike for your very nice bike without you noticing, to the accompaniment of something loud and vaguely musical pumping through my headphones, so my answer at the time was a bit non-commital. Having given the question some thought since then though (...and double-checking the street signs again this morning) I can now give you a very definitive "Yes, yes you were on Rathfarnham Road". ...tough questions deserve some lengthy thought and consideration, and I am now spent...

Lumen

Ha, boardsies are everywhere! You were right anyway, I think.

I spent that entire journey cursing whoever is responsible for Dublin street signage. Along my route from central Dublin to Rathfarnham (ish) there were only about 20% of major junctions with the street name on them. WTF? How the hell is anyone supposed to navigate without satnav in this city?

doozerie

Due to lack of visual clues such as name signs I gave up a long time ago on trying to remember street names in and around Dublin, hence my not being sure of the name of a road that I travel every day. Street name signs are strategically placed far enough away from every major junction to make them next to useless, and they are spaced far enough apart along each road to make you wonder whether you are still on the same road several minutes later (answer: invariably you aren't!).

And then there are the "real and proper" road names, as opposed to the official road names - one stretch of road near me seems to be named locally according to whichever of the two connecting roads that you use to approach it! A bit like Dublin post/area codes the road names are meant to confuse and confound non-Dubliners and certainly in my case they succeed regularly.

DualFrontDiscs

Gentlemen,

Any difficulty you may have navigating the streets of Dublin pales into insignificance compared with trying to get a timetable for a bus journey outside the capital.

On the buseireann website you can buy a ticket between any two points, but you can't get a timetable! For that, you need to look through the PDFs. You'll also need to know the start and end towns for the route you are interested in and possibly also the location within the start/ end town.

I recently needed to get a bus from Navan to Cavan, both areas I am unfamiliar with. I am entirely unwilling to repeat the process again now for accuracy, but I basically had to go through endless PDFs until I found the relevant one. Had I known that the route starts at Lamb's Corner and ended at Doyle's Cross (picking up and dropping off in Navan and Cavan along the route), then I'd have at least had less difficulty.

I may have the place names mixed up now, but I am frankly too traumatised by process to repeat for accuracy here.

How a complete stranger is meant to plan anything using the bus service is beyond me.

DFD.

Lumen

DualFrontDiscs wrote: »

Any difficulty you may have navigating the streets of Dublin pales into insignificance compared with trying to get a timetable for a bus journey outside the capital.

This is why Bus Aras is full of apparently drunk homeless people.

They popped in to plan an impromptu bus trip in early 2004 but the utter futility of the situation robbed them of their self-esteem and set them on a course of bitter self-destruction.

ROK ON

Signage is significantly worse in the countryside.