Small tube amp

ball ox

I'm looking for a small tube amp (5w or lower) to use at home with a 1x12 cab. I'm not looking for something high end but it needs to be fit for recording. I'd love a tiny terror but it's a little above budget at the minute. I'm also considering the build your own amp kits that seem to be getting pretty popular.
I'm really looking to spend as little as possible but still get a tube sound. The only really cheap thing I have seen is a Harley Benton one. Generally I wouldn't touch Harley Benton stuff with bullets but is there that much they can get wrong with a 5w tube amp? Probably....
Anyone here know of any alternatives that won't break the bank?
I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who has used a build your own amp kit, are they any good?

Dord

I bought an old 60's Harmony tube amp from the states last year. Cost about as much as you'd pay for a chinese 5 watter. Sounds far better and tonnes of fun. I say look for something similar.

Mine is a Harmony H303A. It has a nice snarl to it if you drive it.

ball ox

Yeah, I'm keeping an eye on ebay in the hope that something nice will come up. Cant believe the price tag on some small tube amps though.
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/15202-z-vex-nano-head-tube-amplifier.html
http://www.impamp.com/impdirect.html :eek:

Sandvich

I have an AC4 and it's great even though the stock 10" speaker(very bassy for a 10").

http://www.box.net/shared/1if750eqg9

Didn't capture the bass all that well in this clip but you can kind of see what it can do. If you don't like the harsher fuzzier tones at higher gain you might want to swap the tubes. Personally I love it, almost sounds like a Big Muff made into a tube amp but more mid heavy, reminds me a bit of an Orange.

Note how well it cleans up for such a fuzzy sounding amp; when I go between clean and heavy I'm just swapping pickups at the start, then after that I'm just picking softer or harder to get a clean/heavy sound. Amazing dynamics. Is one of the best amps for use with a Neck humbucker that I've found too, sounds very smooth at lower gain.

Didn't agree with my Tele as much, a bit fizzy, though I could get some nice punky tones out of it. Thinking of swapping the tubes to other Sovteks.

ball ox

I had forgotten all about the AC4, I remember spotting one of these a while back in a music shop. I didn't know they made a head only version, they have them on Dolphin for around €185. Hmmmmm, can't really afford it but GAS is setting in pretty rapidly here!

rcaz

ball ox wrote: »

Yeah, I'm keeping an eye on ebay in the hope that something nice will come up. Cant believe the price tag on some small tube amps though.
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/15202-z-vex-nano-head-tube-amplifier.html
http://www.impamp.com/impdirect.html :eek:

Mr. Vex slaps a hefty margin on everything though, doesn't he? As far as I can tell, you're paying for his name with any of his gear. And all he had to do was derive some self-oscillation from a fuzz face :rolleyes:

Sandvich

Better clip of the AC4:

http://www.box.net/shared/e496bqb3vf

Switchable wattage makes it MUCH more useful than any other low wattage head. Also, it cleans up fantastically, if you note the cleans from rolling the volume back aren't all that much quieter than the dirty tones, so you should in theory be able to get clean sounds when using this against a drummer.

It's a shame these small amps didn't have reverb or effects loops, would be perfect for recording. I used a spring reverb DSP that really seems to agree with the AC4's tone there.

Fingers Mcginty

Was gonna suggest A Dr Z mini head 5 Watt with attenuator but if the TT is beyond your budget then the Z will be pie in the sky

Sandvich

ball ox wrote: »

I had forgotten all about the AC4, I remember spotting one of these a while back in a music shop. I didn't know they made a head only version, they have them on Dolphin for around €185. Hmmmmm, can't really afford it but GAS is setting in pretty rapidly here!

It's nearly worth getting the combo from here -

http://www.candyappleredguitars.com/product_info.php?products_id=909&osCsid=ba9ddd0b3763593f60eaf470c271b3ba

Or since you're using a cab with it -

http://www.candyappleredguitars.com/product_info.php?products_id=1120&osCsid=ba9ddd0b3763593f60eaf470c271b3ba

You could probably nab one second hand for much cheaper.

Most of the cheap 5 watters don't have a lot of personality. They might be good for using with pedals at low volume.

Eoin Madsen

Whatever you get, factor new valves into your budget. JJs or tungsols or something nice. Nothing comes with great stock valves, and they're usually not in great nick after shipping and storage of the amp.

What kind of sound are you actually looking for? There's no such thing as a "tube sound", really. Any two valve amps could sound more different to each other as any valve amp from a solidstate. Valve amps tended to be better quality until recent years because the technology was too expensive to compete with supercheap low end solidstate amps. But "tubes!" has become a greater buzzword than ever in the last decade, so that has distinctly changed now.

Welease

I would seriously suggest checking out the Blackheart Little Giant head (not combo) (5/3w switchable) for your price range (~150 Euro)..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po2iD9-7sP8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLyDWZ8HBqo&feature=related

Paolo_M

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

Whatever you get, factor new valves into your budget. JJs or tungsols or something nice. Nothing comes with great stock valves, and they're usually not in great nick after shipping and storage of the amp.

What kind of sound are you actually looking for? There's no such thing as a "tube sound", really. Any two valve amps could sound more different to each other as any valve amp from a solidstate. Valve amps tended to be better quality until recent years because the technology was too expensive to compete with supercheap low end solidstate amps. But "tubes!" has become a greater buzzword than ever in the last decade, so that has distinctly changed now.

^+ eleventymillion. Valves have a subjectively better tone when distorting.

I'm willing to bet that no-one (including myself) would pick the tone of a quality SS amp from a quality valve amp when both are played completely cleanly a lower volumes (talking to shouting levels) and under similar conditions.

IMO, if you want a valve amp to play it cleanly at bedroom volume and use pedals for you distortion then you've just wasted quite a bit of money.
In the bedroom level range using pedals, you'll get a better SS amp with the same money.

Don't get me wrong, nothing compares to a quality cranked valve amp for overdrive/distorted tone, and I do mean nothing, but at this level it's money wasted on a buzz word IMO.

Organeer

Hi, Not sure how far your budget stretches, but I think I remember seeing some Fender Champs in that small music shop in Ballymount a while ago.

ball ox

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

What kind of sound are you actually looking for? There's no such thing as a "tube sound", really. Any two valve amps could sound more different to each other as any valve amp from a solidstate. Valve amps tended to be better quality until recent years because the technology was too expensive to compete with supercheap low end solidstate amps. But "tubes!" has become a greater buzzword than ever in the last decade, so that has distinctly changed now.

By "tube sound" I am referring to the common characteristic that most tube amps (that I have owned/played anyway) share - warmth and the ability to break up nicely when pushed. I am unable to get the sound I want with my AC15 or AD30 at home as they are too loud which is why I am looking for something 5w or lower, preferably lower actually, so that I can crank them without getting evicted. As I said, I'm not talking top of the range here so tone is something that will have to be compromised on some level but I have various tubes lying around to experiment with. The fact that I have a spare 1x12 hanging around is a bonus too and specifically why I want a head as opposed to a combo.

Paolo M, I have no intention of using pedals for distortion, this is specifically why I want a low wattage amp, so that I can crank it...

The Blackheart looks pretty cool Welease, thanks. I thought they only made the combo but the head on its own is pretty affordable. It's a toss up between this and the AC4 methinks, gonna try and play them in some of the shops around town...... although I doubt anywhere stocks Blackheart

ball ox

Organeer wrote: »

Hi, Not sure how far your budget stretches, but I think I remember seeing some Fender Champs in that small music shop in Ballymount a while ago.

Yeah I think they are actually giving these away if you buy a US Fender, pretty decent deal! Must give one a try when I'm out there next, cheers.

Welease

ball ox wrote: »

The Blackheart looks pretty cool Welease, thanks. I thought they only made the combo but the head on its own is pretty affordable. It's a toss up between this and the AC4 methinks, gonna try and play them in some of the shops around town...... although I doubt anywhere stocks Blackheart

I meant to post this earlier, but it may be worth looking into their 1w version (little ant i think), which is even cheaper.. Even on 3w the little giant is incredibly loud, I live in the arse end of nowhere and it's still too loud.. My next amp will probably be a .5/1w amp.

I'm not sure who stocks them in Dublin (got mine off iMuso), but you are welcome to come and test drive it if you are every out near Carbury in Kildare.

Sandvich

Paolo M, I have no intention of using pedals for distortion, this is specifically why I want a low wattage amp, so that I can crank it...

The AC4 is the only amp in that range you'll get that "cranked" sound from thanks to the wattage switch going down to 1/4W.

nicknackgtb

Another one that might be worth checking out is the Marshall C5, its a small 5watt Class A Valve amp, and then by looking at it, it seems to be a serious amp if you plug it into an external cab. Seriously cool looking amp too! I was in Perfect Pitch in the city centre, they have one in there, but its basically 100w sound from a 5w tube amp! If not, check out X-music, im sure they have one!

Eoin Madsen

Single-ended amps don't really sound the same as push/pull amps when you crank them, so I'm not sure you'll actually achieve what you're hoping to achieve. At low volume, a digital modelling amp will fool your ears better.

At the very least, you want a low watt valve amp which has a preamp like the amp you're hoping to sound like. I'd look for something with a pair of ECC83s in the preamp, brilliant and normal inputs and volumes, and bass/middle/treble controls.

Paolo_M

^+ twelvty million.

Again, I'm agreeing with Eoin here.

A decent modeller will sound far more like a cranked 100 Watt valve amp at bedroom volume than a small, low wattage valve amp.

I know this because I('ve) (owned) currently own large valve amps (JCM800, Dual Rec, 5150, JMP50 etc.), modellers (Amplitube, Peavey ReValver etc. PC-based, but the algorithms are similar to the amp versions) and small valve amps (HB GA5).

5 watt valve amps have a sound of their own, but do not expect cranked Marshall tone, that's just not what they do, however the 5150 in ReValver at bedroom levels sounds damn close to a real cranked 5150.

Sandvich

I think that's probably about right, however I would say the Vox AC4 is a bit better than most of the other lower wattager amps.

Also, the Blackstar HT-5 is particularly good though it does cost quite a bit more and uses some chips to get it's sound(then again so do a lot of tube amps).

Paolo, what do you run your modelers through? I've considered getting a good modeler and keyboard or bass amp with a direct in so it'll have a flatter frequency response. Or a pair of really good speakers.

I tried Amplitube and it didn't agree much with my computer at all. Very noisy.

Paolo_M

Sandvich wrote: »

Paolo, what do you run your modelers through? I've considered getting a good modeler and keyboard or bass amp with a direct in so it'll have a flatter frequency response. Or a pair of really good speakers.

I tried Amplitube and it didn't agree much with my computer at all. Very noisy.

I them as plug-ins with Reaper. I feed the preamp only into LaConvolver and use Impluse responses from there.
ReValver allows you to use impulses natively so you can go stand alone without the DAW. I think Amplitube 3 is supposed to support IR natively.
This is then feed through the monitors (which are the old living room Surround Sound system. I know, I'll be upgrading soon!!) or my studio headphones.

The IRs are the job. Couldn't really get the right sounds using Amplitubes normal cab sims, though with the right amount of amb mixed in it was close.
The right IR makes a big diff though.

Was the copy of Amplitube you used "official"? What computor are you using? OS?

Sandvich

I don't remember now, it was a while back. I think it might have been a demo.

Eoin Madsen

If you get into a sequencer/DAW with VST support, Voxengo's Pristine Space is pretty much the most awesome IR engine going. And shockingly inexpensive.

Sandvich

I think I'd rather get a stand alone modeler like the POD. If the Vypyrs had a nicer design I'd probably pick up one of those.

Eoin Madsen

I'd rather buy a Muse Receptor and run a software modeller through an 8 channel IR processor, a 32-band compressor, and a 64-band EQ.

Paolo_M

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

I'd rather buy a Muse Receptor and run a software modeller through an 8 channel IR processor, a 32-band compressor, and a 64-band EQ.

ooooooooooooooooooooooooh, fancy pants

Eoin Madsen

I should probably clarify that I can't afford a Muse Receptor. The bank won't give me any more money since I blew their last loan on releasing an album with no financial prospects at all. :pac: