Nipping

Ave Sodalis

Know a horse at the yard I go to often and they have a horse that has a terrible habit a nipping people. Is there any way to stop this as i can be fairly dangerous with young ones?

Hobbidance

The horse is either doing it out of fear or disrespect. Easy way to tell which is if he draws away sharply after he tries to nip which means he's doing it out of defense. If he stands and nips he could be either playful or trying to be dominant.

Either way with a horse that nips, especially in a yard with people and children about who may be unaware of how some horses may be, the matter needs to be dealt with straight away.

The only way I've ever been able to stop a horse nipping or biting is by basically showing it who is boss. You cant shout at it or be angry as it doesn't mean anything. For a horse acting out of fear (you may not have done anything to make him afraid but it may be imprinted) you cannot be too rash or you could end up making your problem worse instead of better.
A quick tough pinch or jab into the neck (never the head) ensuring that you never yell at it or hurt him, the aim is to discipline not punish. If the horse is already acting out of fear then it will automatically step back. You should never keep going 'disciplning' after the horse has stepped back. You're going beyond what the horse understands and adding to fear instead of solving your problem.
If the horse doesn't step back it is a sign of defiance and you have gained nothing from your action so repeat it a fraction tougher each time until he steps backwards away from you. Then reward him by leaving him have his space for a moment.

It might take a few days or a few weeks depending on the horse but it has never failed for me from ones acting out of defense and fear to youngsters playing or stallions being dominating. Key things are dont get angry, dont shout, dont beat the horse and never dicipline him further after he has taken a backward step and always reward this show of good behaviour with a reward of his own space.

Another tip which is a major thign with nippy horses especially in riding yards. DON'T feed them from your hand. That just begs more trouble.

Ave Sodalis

Yeah, i think thats when he was out in the field over the summer, youngsters kept feeding him from their hands.

Thanks, thats good advice!

Jen Pigs Fly

I will have to agree with everything Hobbidance said.

If the horse nips a good hit will do it.

My mare used to always nip other people, she tried it once with me (made me bleed and everything on the side) I punched her once only on the neck and she has never done it again. while she does have a tendency to do it to others all she needs is a warning sound to remember the pain

On that note, there is a really push pig of a pony that's up, likes to barge around the stall, go where it wants to, pushes you away, will drag you along, typical bossy brat of a pony. I was tacking this pony up for the owner, she decides she's leaving the stable and didn't take lightly to me giving her a not so soft reminder that she is to stay and she took a chunk from my arm.
The hit she got made my own hand hurt, only did it once. Since then the pony has stood stock still whenever I'm around. I'm trying to teach the owner that you HAVE to get angry sometimes and not let the pony walk all over you. The pony is still a brat but she now looks at me and behaves.

In the end it's all about asserting your dominance, reward for good behaviour, but if they even move to bite you again, make a nose, raise your hand if you need to (don't hit unless pony still bites) and that pony should stop.

Ave Sodalis

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

I will have to agree with everything Hobbidance said.

If the horse nips a good hit will do it.

My mare used to always nip other people, she tried it once with me (made me bleed and everything on the side) I punched her once only on the neck and she has never done it again. while she does have a tendency to do it to others all she needs is a warning sound to remember the pain

On that note, there is a really push pig of a pony that's up, likes to barge around the stall, go where it wants to, pushes you away, will drag you along, typical bossy brat of a pony. I was tacking this pony up for the owner, she decides she's leaving the stable and didn't take lightly to me giving her a not so soft reminder that she is to stay and she took a chunk from my arm.
The hit she got made my own hand hurt, only did it once. Since then the pony has stood stock still whenever I'm around. I'm trying to teach the owner that you HAVE to get angry sometimes and not let the pony walk all over you. The pony is still a brat but she now looks at me and behaves.

In the end it's all about asserting your dominance, reward for good behaviour, but if they even move to bite you again, make a nose, raise your hand if you need to (don't hit unless pony still bites) and that pony should stop.

Its more nibbling then biting as such but it's very annoying when your brushing him or standing beside the door.

Tried giving him a slap, but it didn't work. He just pulled his head back, waited for you to turn around then started again.:(

We have another horse too, that runs at the door to snap at people. He has his ears flat back a his eyes roll and everything. It doesn't matter who it is. The owners caught me shouting at the horse when he got my finger as I was standing beside the stable and gave out to me:eek: ah well.

Jen Pigs Fly

sup_dude wrote: »

Its more nibbling then biting as such but it's very annoying when your brushing him or standing beside the door.

Tried giving him a slap, but it didn't work. He just pulled his head back, waited for you to turn around then started again.:(

We have another horse too, that runs at the door to snap at people. He has his ears flat back a his eyes roll and everything. It doesn't matter who it is. The owners caught me shouting at the horse when he got my finger as I was standing beside the stable and gave out to me:eek: ah well.

Hmmm sounds to me that he's just being a brat. I may be wrong however. Nibbling? Perhaps he was fed a lot of treats ad is just expecting to find treats in your pocket. My mare will nudge my pocket as she knows that's where I keep treats. It could be possible.

Have you tried with the horse that runs at the door to challenge him almost? I know a horse like that was a real dominatin type, was always top of the pecking order. Next time the horse runs to the door to attack, give the door a right auld boot (steel toe boots work wonders!) In my experience this tends to catch the horse off guard. You have to assert your dominance over this horse otherwise he will hurt someone. Booting the door just as the horse is at the door is akin to another horse kicking out almost at him, make him think he's the boss. Don't shout, but if you much make a noise growl almost, I find making your voice deep makes them listen (I growl at horses who like to refuse jumping, works for me).

If the owner gives out to you for shouting perhaps you should tell them what the horse is like? Unless they already know. At the end of the day if the owners arn't putting in the effort there's not that much you can do but correct the horse and assert your dominance over them, even if just to keep yourself from teeth's way.

Hobbidance

sup_dude wrote: »

Its more nibbling then biting as such but it's very annoying when your brushing him or standing beside the door.

Tried giving him a slap, but it didn't work. He just pulled his head back, waited for you to turn around then started again.:(

We have another horse too, that runs at the door to snap at people. He has his ears flat back a his eyes roll and everything. It doesn't matter who it is. The owners caught me shouting at the horse when he got my finger as I was standing beside the stable and gave out to me:eek: ah well.

It's not just giving him a slap, he will (more so seeing a he's young) take it as playing. As young horses play nip each all the time. You need to give him either a tough jab, or pinch (more like a horse bitting) as in you grab the skin on his neck and give it a good twist. If that doesn't work follow it with a tough thump and continue thumping him until he takes a step backwards from you. I suggest if he does it while grooming thump him more closely to the jugular groove as that would give him more incentive to move backwards. Thumping on the side of the neck or shoulder might not get the submissive backwards step. After he does step back, continue grooming for another minute or so to be sure he got the idea. If not repeat the sharp pinch and the thumps until he moves back again. Groom again till he stands quietly for a minute. Then leave the stable.

If he tries to follow and nip you immediately step right up to him and thump him in the same place till he steps back and then try leaving again. Repeat until he stands a resepctful distance away while you leave. Horses should never be leaning over you or pushing behind you as you go to leave the stable. It is very dangerous.

It probably wont sink in overnight but it shouldn't take too long either. You need to always reinforce it. If he nibbles at clothes reprimand him for that as well as that may also cause a scare to a child. I remember once we had a horse in a yard that used to love pulling on peoples zips and it was very cute till a little girl was petting him and when he nibbled on her zip she screamed which scared him the woman holding the girl tried to pull her away and the horse shot back into the stable at the same time and the little girl hit her head off the stable door. She was ok just a little shaken but the mother was furious. Fortunately when she realised there was no harm done she was ok but it could have been worse.

My horses both know that when I approach the door they must move back from it. They also stand if I turn to bring the barrow to the door or if I'm just standing in the door speaking to the person down the yard before they disappear. They aren't 'wallpaper' horses though because I've never been rough with them than what is fair. So they dont pin themselves to the back wall when I approach in fear of a beating for standing by the door. Even when it's feed time my horse paws and leans on his door as he loves his grub but as soon as I approach he doesnt lean out to snatch his feed but steps back so I can open the door and waits to go the feed until I leave it down. He doesnt bash me for it or charge the door at feed time. He knows if he does he'll get an 'oi' followed by a thump if he doesnt back off.

Anyway I'm rambling. That horse that charges has an owner as you say so I assume it is a livery horse. You should discuss his behaviour with his owner. Never touch a horse you have no right to. Even if what you're doing is no where near cruel. Try and get him/her to see how dangerous it could be to have this horse attack a passing child or horse. The horse may not even touch anyone but bear his teeth and flatten his ears. However if he suddenly charges a spooky horse. That horse gets a frights and runs of down the yard. The spooked horse could slip and cap his knees, run into equipment or a fence and damaged that or hurt himself or even worse run into a person or child who was an innocent bystander. If he doesn't have liability insurance it could end up very costly if his horse caused any such situation. If the person realises what you're saying suggest perhaps offering to help with the horse by organising a specific repremand that the owner agrees with. Some will allow you to thump the horse on the neck till he backs off and some will only allow you walk up and shout in the door (which is useless and infact reinforcing the bad behaviour because he gets attention for doing it instead of disipline). If it seems like the person doesnt want to know maybe bring it to the attention of the yard owner and then leave it at that. You can only do so much before you're actually imposing. There are just some people who don't think their pushy or badly behaved horses are dangerous to others until something happens that opens their eyes. You can try and help people with their horses as much as possible if you're sure of what you're doing. However if you're not tactful and understanding of how people dont like hearing their beloved horses are potentially dangerous you can end up making more enemies than friends.

Hobbidance

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

Hmmm sounds to me that he's just being a brat. I may be wrong however. Nibbling? Perhaps he was fed a lot of treats ad is just expecting to find treats in your pocket. My mare will nudge my pocket as she knows that's where I keep treats. It could be possible.

Have you tried with the horse that runs at the door to challenge him almost? I know a horse like that was a real dominatin type, was always top of the pecking order. Next time the horse runs to the door to attack, give the door a right auld boot (steel toe boots work wonders!) In my experience this tends to catch the horse off guard. You have to assert your dominance over this horse otherwise he will hurt someone. Booting the door just as the horse is at the door is akin to another horse kicking out almost at him, make him think he's the boss. Don't shout, but if you much make a noise growl almost, I find making your voice deep makes them listen (I growl at horses who like to refuse jumping, works for me).

If the owner gives out to you for shouting perhaps you should tell them what the horse is like? Unless they already know. At the end of the day if the owners arn't putting in the effort there's not that much you can do but correct the horse and assert your dominance over them, even if just to keep yourself from teeth's way.

I agree with kicking the door it is effective. Carefull however I did that with one horse and he got such a fright the first time he knocked his head of the top of the stable when he threw himself back. There was no cut or anything and the horse was given over to me for training so I had permission to give him repremands. It did work however he was less likely to charge the door if I walked up but still didn't solve his festering mood. Which only improved after he got the calming settlement in knowing I was top horse and he was a lower rank. Some horses get angry and fearful when they're just unsure of their place.

Another tip is be 'big' you should always walk around, groom, ride, lead horses with confidence and assertiveness. A horse relies heavily on body language. They know looking at a person whether they know what they're doing or are unsure, a lower rank than them so to say.

Ave Sodalis

Thanks for the advice guys! Has all been taken on board and I'll try it out the next day. Hopefully it'll work now:D

Wicked

i have this problem with my two foals. luckily they don't charge at you but they playfully nip when being fed. i'd still like to get them out of the habit.

the other problem i had with them was that they kept eating their door! not like a crib biter they just nibbled away breaking lumps off it!

got a variety of ideas off people on how to fix it, one person suggested putting mustard on the door, we went a step further and put hot chilly sauce on it! the boys loved it! licked it all off in about ten minutes!


eventually fixed the problem by painting the door with black oil and putting a piece of thin steel on the top. haven't looked back since

convert

Wicked wrote: »

the other problem i had with them was that they kept eating their door! not like a crib biter they just nibbled away breaking lumps off it!

Sometimes horses will nibble/bite/eat at wood, weather in doors, door posts, fences or poles if they are lacking in some types of minerals. I remember reading about it when my horse started doing that a few years ago. I bought a mineral lick, and the horse stopped eating the timber almost immediately.