Willie O'Dea accused by Sunday Tribune

RexMundi · 17-02-2010 6:49pm

91011 wrote: »

Is this correct

Last march O'Dea told a couple of porkies about a political rival.

That person took a libel case and O'Dea entered an affadavit in which some points were wrong or ommitted.

In December after it was brought to his attention, O'Dea corrected his affadavit and apologised for the error.

The case was then settled.

In February a reporter from a Independent Newspapers subsiduary suddenly writes about it and compares it to someone who refused to give evidence in a trial that was to do with murder & gangland activity?

Now, from my own knowledge of Independent Newpapers and their many many trials and settlements - they certainly skew the truth on may occasions and ignore it on many more.

If O'Dea only corrected his affadavit AFTER the article was published then there would be a serious case to answer, but he corrected it before the proceeding were finished, apologised and paid up.

Where's the story?????

- of course the anti FF brigade will come up with loads of stuff, but for the non political observer, there really isn't any story. - Another cock-up by angry Enda.

It's been brewing in political circles for a few months at this stage. Check out politics.ie. There have been threads about this for ages.

Now is simply when Fine Gael chose to strike. Fair play to Senator Eugene Regan for raising the issue in the first place. We deserve higher standards from our politicians.

thebaldsoprano · 17-02-2010 6:59pm

91011 wrote: »

That person took a libel case and O'Dea entered an affadavit in which some points were wrong or ommitted.

In December after it was brought to his attention, O'Dea corrected his affadavit and apologised for the error.

Yes, some points were, to quote his affidavit, "emphatically and categorically" denied, which was complete bull.

You conveniently left out a few minor details about a discovery order and a tape recorder.

Finally, of course he corrected his affidavit and apologised, people go to jail for these things and it was the least he could do to avoid it himself.

walshb · 17-02-2010 7:02pm

"Is this correct"

Not exactly correct from my understanding. He signed a sworn affidavit and ONLY after he was found out in court, did he back track. This affidavit made it to the court and was sworn in; this makes the position of this man absolutely untenable. But, here in Ireland, standards in office mean **** all.

dlofnep · 17-02-2010 7:08pm

O'Dea should be 100% accountable for his actions, but I find it highly contradictory that Enda Kenny is calling on him to resign for making false allegations about a member of Sinn Féin, when Enda himself was questioned for his attempts to attack the character of Sinn Féin on the Late Late Show a few weeks back and was unable to answer Tubridy - and was subsequently jeered by the audience for it.

In my opinion, I believe that Fine Gael are using this as an opportunity to weaken Fianna Fáil, and are not doing it for the right reasons. Opportunist tactics at it's finest if I do say so myself.

jmayo · 17-02-2010 7:10pm

91011 wrote: »

Is this correct

Last march O'Dea told a couple of porkies about a political rival.

That person took a libel case and O'Dea entered an affadavit in which some points were wrong or ommitted.

In December after it was brought to his attention, O'Dea corrected his affadavit and apologised for the error.

The case was then settled.

In February a reporter from a Independent Newspapers subsiduary suddenly writes about it and compares it to someone who refused to give evidence in a trial that was to do with murder & gangland activity?

Now, from my own knowledge of Independent Newpapers and their many many trials and settlements - they certainly skew the truth on may occasions and ignore it on many more.

If O'Dea only corrected his affadavit AFTER the article was published then there would be a serious case to answer, but he corrected it before the proceeding were finished, apologised and paid up.

Where's the story?????

- of course the anti FF brigade will come up with loads of stuff, but for the non political observer, there really isn't any story. - Another cock-up by angry Enda.

BS.
How convenioent you spin even more lies and untruths.
They weren't just porkies as you put them.
He accussed a memebr of the public runnign for eleciton of running a brothel which is serious criminal offense.
So stop with the F***ING ff spin.

o'deas original allegations were made public around time of local elections last year.
So an ARTICLE was published.

An injunction was not given to plaintiff to stop these allegations being spread.

o'dea swore an affidavit to the HIGH COURT in which he claimed he never made the allegations.
It was only when confronted with tape of interview that he rechanted his SWORN affidavit.

FFS it really shows how bad this country is when some people like you come on here defending o'dea who LIED to the HIGH COURT and attacks Kenny because he questioned his suitablity for public office. :mad:

I really despair with what is happening in our country.

17-02-2010 7:13pm

Was this case a civil case or a criminal case?

Surely there are many instances of people lying under oath, lying in affadavits, falsifying evidence and there has been no punishment.

Even the Irish times got away with destroying evidence when they knew a court case was coming up it that regard.

I'm no expert myself, but a family member is a senior counsel and there are so many "untruths" in affadavits day in and day out, if everyone who told a fib went to jail the jail population would be doubled.

I just don't understand why it has suddenly come out into the media over 2 months since it was settled, changed & admitted? - Maybe its another thing to distract the ineptness of FG to actually come up with proper proposals of what they would do for the country instead of their constsnt whinging. - I really really wish they could start acting like adults and allow me to vote for them as I did in the Dukes & Fitzgerald years (even canvassed for Mr Shatter!)

17-02-2010 7:19pm

jmayo wrote: »

BS.
How convenioent you spin even more lies and untruths.
They weren't just porkies as you put them.
He accussed a memebr of the public runnign for eleciton of running a brothel which is serious criminal offense.
So stop with the F***ING ff spin.

o'deas original allegations were made public around time of local elections last year.
So an ARTICLE was published.

An injunction was not given to plaintiff to stop these allegations being spread.

o'dea swore an affidavit to the HIGH COURT in which he claimed he never made the allegations.
It was only when confronted with tape of interview that he rechanted his SWORN affidavit.

FFS it really shows how bad this country is when some people like you come on here defending o'dea who LIED to the HIGH COURT and attacks Kenny because he questioned his suitablity for public office. :mad:

I really despair with what is happening in our country.

I'm not defending O'Dea and as per a previous post my closest ties with Politics is FG, but many years ago. Unfortunatley I find them inept at properly chanllenging the current government and as such can't see myself supporting them at present - a new leader and new style of politic would probably help imensely.

I haven't read into the case, I'm just asking why so long after the event, it suddenly becomes front page news - surely childish antics by FG / labour are behind it ?

thebaldsoprano · 17-02-2010 7:26pm

91011 wrote: »

Was this case a civil case or a criminal case?

Surely there are many instances of people lying under oath, lying in affadavits, falsifying evidence and there has been no punishment.

Even the Irish times got away with destroying evidence when they knew a court case was coming up it that regard.

I'm no expert myself, but a family member is a senior counsel and there are so many "untruths" in affadavits day in and day out, if everyone who told a fib went to jail the jail population would be doubled.

Thankfully, there aren't enough people in Leinster House to double the jail population.

If you consider lying to a court a "fib" then why not release O'Dea's constituent Roy Behan? His "fib" was to save his life, O'Dea's for political gain.

91011 wrote: »

I just don't understand why it has suddenly come out into the media over 2 months since it was settled, changed & admitted? - Maybe its another thing to distract the ineptness of FG to actually come up with proper proposals of what they would do for the country instead of their constsnt whinging. - I really really wish they could start acting like adults and allow me to vote for them as I did in the Dukes & Fitzgerald years (even canvassed for Mr Shatter!)

Or maybe it was to distract from FF losing 500 jobs. Whatever the reason, political gain is the likely answer, but that doesn't change or excuse O'Dea's actions.

walshb · 17-02-2010 7:30pm

91011 wrote: »

Was this case a civil case or a criminal case?

Surely there are many instances of people lying under oath, lying in affadavits, falsifying evidence and there has been no punishment.

Even the Irish times got away with destroying evidence when they knew a court case was coming up it that regard.

I'm no expert myself, but a family member is a senior counsel and there are so many "untruths" in affadavits day in and day out, if everyone who told a fib went to jail the jail population would be doubled.

I agree with all you say, sure isn't that why this country is such a disgrace.
The attitude that this is the norm, is acceptable and "Sure what's all the fuss."

O'Dea and those supporting him are the problem this country is facing, not JUST those voting in a no confidence vote, but those actually accpeting this and defending this and seeing nothing wrong with a Minister lying to a High Court. We truly are a sad lot.

sceptre · 17-02-2010 8:09pm

dlofnep wrote: »

O'Dea should be 100% accountable for his actions, but I find it highly contradictory that Enda Kenny is calling on him to resign for making false allegations about a member of Sinn Féin, when Enda himself was questioned for his attempts to attack the character of Sinn Féin on the Late Late Show a few weeks back and was unable to answer Tubridy - and was subsequently jeered by the audience for it.

In my opinion, I believe that Fine Gael are using this as an opportunity to weaken Fianna Fáil, and are not doing it for the right reasons. Opportunist tactics at it's finest if I do say so myself.

Quinlivan being in Sinn Fein has nothing to do with whether O'Dea's actions were acceptable or not. Given that it was a sworn affidavit, Quinlivan being accused of being a brothel-keeper by O'Dea has nothing to do with Kenny giving his views on the Late Late Show either. Important as the Late Late Show has been in the past to the moral fibre of the nation, it's never either been a court of law or required guests to swear that they'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, whether giving their opinion in general or accusing someone of running a whorehouse. They're both clearly distinct from one another.

I'm sure it's at least a little opportunist - almost everything in politics is. Contradictory, no, even if you'd prefer Kenny to like the Sinn Fein party a little more than he does. Key difference is sworn testimony or the lack of it, and that's before anything else even needs to be considered. This issue isn't about Sinn Fein or any member of Sinn Fein. It's got nothing to do with Sinn Fein. It's all to do with whether an elected representative and minister for defence is above the law when it comes to giving the Irish courts a sworn statement which later proves to be demonstrably false and misleading the court system as to particular facts relevant to a case before them. Given that O'Dea has said that the recorder was on the table in front of him, he either lost his marbles and memory temporarily or he made a deliberate attempt to mislead (which would make him a liar), the latter including a deliberate attempt to mislead the court (which would make him a perjurer). And the sentence previous to this one is even giving him the benefit of the doubt in a really generous way. That's what this is about, nothing more and nothing less.

dlofnep · 17-02-2010 8:23pm

I don't disagree with you - I just found it very opportunist, and slightly hypocritical. I'm aware of the difference between making a sworn affidavit, and making a speech of national television - but there is still similarities in the core issue of false accusations.

Grimreaper666 · 17-02-2010 8:39pm

This is certainly a new low for the political establishment as a whole and for Ireland as a nation, not that it surprises me to be truthful, it just goes to show what is now regarded acceptable by us, the people. Like some others have said, this is a criminal offence of the highest order, should be investigated by the Gardai/DDP and dealt with accordingly. If O'Dea gets away with this it will simply open the floodgates for every other two bit politician to have a go at us. Quite despicable carry on but nothing new for FF.

RexMundi · 17-02-2010 8:41pm

dlofnep wrote: »

I don't disagree with you - I just found it very opportunist, and slightly hypocritical. I'm aware of the difference between making a sworn affidavit, and making a speech of national television - but there is still similarities in the core issue of false accusations.

but the false allegation is not the core issue...

it is the lying about it on a sworn affidavit.

Willie O’Dea’s sworn affidavit, given under oath to the High Court:
[FONT=&quot]5) I most categorically and emphatically deny that I said to Mr.Dwane that the Plaintiff was a part owner of the said apartment. I did not at any time say to any other person that the Plaintiff had any ownership of the apartment. Neither did I say at any time to any person that the Plaintiff had any involvement in the operation of the brothel.[/FONT]

Transcript of interview with Willie O’Dea:
[FONT=&quot]“Willie O’Dea: ...while occasionally we send out letters to planning applicants we have never been involved with anyone who shot anybody, or robbed banks, or kidnapped people. I suppose I'm going a bit too far when I say this but I'd like to ask Mr Quinlivan is the brothel still closed?"
Mike Dwane: Is the brothel still closed?
Willie O’Dea: Is the brothel still closed?
Mike Dwane: What brothel is that Willie?
Willie O’Dea: Do you know the brothel they found in his name and in his brother’s name down in Clancy Strand?
Mike Dwane: I never heard about that.
Willie O’Dea: Did you not hear that? You better check your sources. There was a house owned by him that was rented out and they found two ladies of the night operating in there in the last couple of weeks.
Mike Dwane: Right. The other one I wanted to ask you about Willie was were you disappointed to see Noreen Ryan in the witness box?
Willie O’Dea: I don’t want to talk about that................................”[/FONT]

Shea O'Meara · 17-02-2010 8:50pm

It's typical of Fianna Fail. Did anyone really think they would let one of their own lose his position? It goes beyond O'Dea being a proven liar, (in Fianna Fail, shock horror!). If they actually had any care for the public, they'd show a little class instead of living by their 'us and them' philosophy, the 'them' being anyone not a flag waving sticky fingered Fianna Fail member.

watchingthepols · 17-02-2010 9:27pm

Car crash radio for the Greens

Trish Forde Brennan (chair of the National Council of the Greens who negotiated the programme for government) V Maurice Quinlivan at lunchtime today.

Well worth listening to the end

http://www.newstalk.ie/programmes/all/lunchtime/controversy-surrounds-willie-odea/

walshb · 17-02-2010 9:37pm

Cowen is the real weak link here. It is he who is the man in power and it is he who is allowing these shambolic standards and it is he who is not acting to deal with this sham. Gormley is a big factor too; but I guess he like the rest of his sham party, realise that they will never ever have a better chance
to be in power.

walshb · 17-02-2010 9:48pm

watchingthepols wrote: »

Car crash radio for the Greens

Trish Forde Brennan (chair of the National Council of the Greens who negotiated the programme for government) V Maurice Quinlivan at lunchtime today.

Well worth listening to the end

http://www.newstalk.ie/programmes/all/lunchtime/controversy-surrounds-willie-odea/

Who the hell sanctioned this woman to defend this. What an absolute waffler?

BTW, what is all this baloney that "he made a mistake?"

Okay, anytime anyone does this in the future should be able to get
off by the same measure

zootroid · 17-02-2010 10:57pm

watchingthepols wrote: »

Car crash radio for the Greens

Trish Forde Brennan (chair of the National Council of the Greens who negotiated the programme for government) V Maurice Quinlivan at lunchtime today.

Well worth listening to the end

http://www.newstalk.ie/programmes/all/lunchtime/controversy-surrounds-willie-odea/

That actually made the greens look worse that FF.

She accepted that what he said was wrong, but didn't think there should be any consequences for it "ah sure everyone makes mistakes" :rolleyes:

Trojan · 17-02-2010 11:12pm

Green Party Chair, (Senator) Dan Boyle wrote:

As regards to Minister O'Dea I don't have confidence in him. His situation is compromised. Probably be a few chapters in this story yet.

--

Not happy with what happened today. Believe we bounced into supporting mottion. Next week would have been fine.

Sources:
http://twitter.com/sendboyle/status/9245275419
http://twitter.com/sendboyle/status/9245427453

Discussion on this on Newstalk106 at the moment (10.10pm).

We'll see what comes of this, but has the potential to be a government breaker.

IrishTonyO · 17-02-2010 11:20pm

Trojan wrote: »

Sources:
http://twitter.com/sendboyle/status/9245275419
http://twitter.com/sendboyle/status/9245427453

Discussion on this on Newstalk106 at the moment (10.10pm).

We'll see what comes of this, but has the potential to be a government breaker.

At last one of the Greens waking up to a conscience

Liam Byrne · 17-02-2010 11:35pm

Trojan wrote: »

....has the potential to be a government breaker.

Fingers crossed! Willie O'Dea might have actually managed to - indirectly - do us some good, for once!

Mind you, I wouldn't hold my breath......we thought we were out of jail when McDowell initially questioned Ahern's testimonies, and look what happened there.

HalloweenJack · 18-02-2010 12:20am

Has the guy who O'Dea defamed mentioned anything about suing the chancer? I think that'd be the best way to deal with it. It looks like an easy case for him to win.

IrishTonyO · 18-02-2010 12:21am

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Has the guy who O'Dea defamed mentioned anything about suing the chancer? I think that'd be the best way to deal with it. It looks like an easy case for him to win.

He did sue him and won in December and a settlement was made

Trotter · 18-02-2010 1:28am

We've missed the boat on this one. FF were cute enough to rush this through, knowing full well it wouldnt give the Greens time to talk about it much. They've been played for fools and Willie has walked. I think thats the end of it to be honest.

Red_Marauder · 18-02-2010 2:10am

Did anybody hear Dermot Ahern's response to the opposition in the Dáil yesterday as was reported in today's Irish Times?

Dermot Ahern:

"Where was George Lee last week? You jettisoned him. We have a bit more loyalty!"

Bear in mind that this man is Minister for Justice.

I don't believe in hounding members of any persuasion simply for political or petty reasons due to party loyalty. But I really do find it sickening that the Minister for Justice speaks proudly of his "loyalty" to a member of the cabinet who has lied in a sworn statement to the High Court of the country.

That is not acceptable.

IrishTonyO · 18-02-2010 3:37am

A bit of light relief re Willie

http://www.tbcnews.net/2010/02/willie-odea-to-donate-neck-to-medical-science/

jmayo · 18-02-2010 11:05am

dlofnep wrote: »

I don't disagree with you - I just found it very opportunist, and slightly hypocritical. I'm aware of the difference between making a sworn affidavit, and making a speech of national television - but there is still similarities in the core issue of false accusations.

Did Kenny accuse any member of SF of being a brothel keeper ?
DID HE ?

He said he would not go into government with them and he mumbled about their history and what they were like (which actually would include condoning the murder of a member of our police force and the murder and abduction of innocent civiliansv over the last 40 years) and he failed to elaborate his position when challenged.

Where are the false accusations ?

Did he swear an affidavit to the second highest court in the land that he never did say such a thing when he had ?
DID HE ?

There are no FU**ING similarities and if you think there are then you have one almighty f**ked up view of the rule of law.
There are huge differences between the tow instances.
You can accuse Kenny of lots of things, but you have some f***ing neck lumping his comments about not going into government with SF with those of o'dea.

Even if you want to hijack this thread to go off about SF being victimised I do not.

This is bigger than any particular party.
It is an issue where a sitting TD, nay minister, can defame an election opponent (who in this case happened to be SF member) and then later swear in a high court affidavit that he never made the allegations.

It is about ethics in public office, the rule of law and no citizen of the state, no matter who they are or what position they hold being baove the rule of law.

zootroid wrote: »

That actually made the greens look worse that FF.

She accepted that what he said was wrong, but didn't think there should be any consequences for it "ah sure everyone makes mistakes" :rolleyes:

On Morning Ireland gogarty made it even worse by stating what o'dea did was unethical, but yet they have no problem supporting him as minister. :rolleyes:

Trotter wrote: »

We've missed the boat on this one. FF were cute enough to rush this through, knowing full well it wouldnt give the Greens time to talk about it much. They've been played for fools and Willie has walked. I think thats the end of it to be honest.

I wouldn't be so sure.
There may be another twist and that was one of reasons that clowen moved the motion of confidence to try and outflank FG motion.
Why was clowen in such a hurry to this and not wait until next week.

There are rumours that councillor Noreen Ryan may be going after wee willie as well.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/It39s-war-Minister-O39Dea-V.4760933.jp

RexMundi · 18-02-2010 11:50am

jmayo wrote: »

On Morning Ireland gogarty made it even worse by stating what o'dea did was unethical, but yet they have no problem supporting him as minister. :rolleyes:

I emailed him yesterday and got a similar response. I was gobsmacked. The Greens seem to be trying to have it both ways, saying that what O'Dea did was unethical and that they would like him to resign but nonetheless voting confidence in him and backing up his ludicrous story blaming the Gardaí.

jmayo · 18-02-2010 12:04pm

RexMundi wrote: »

I emailed him yesterday and got a similar response. I was gobsmacked. The Greens seem to be trying to have it both ways, saying that what O'Dea did was unethical and that they would like him to resign but nonetheless voting confidence in him and backing up his ludicrous story blaming the Gardaí.

There is another twist in this that could yet get the little f***er.

o'dea admitted yesterday in his Dáil speech that he got information from the Gardaí.
Now if he did get information, he got it in his capacity as government minister and in particular minister of defence.
He then used this sensitive probably confidential information in a private capacity to publicly attack an election opponent.

Yet another reason for him to be unfit to hold the rank of minister and in particular that of minister for defence.

Here is another interesting development to the vote yesterday.
Not alone did the greens vote for o'dea no independent voted aginst him.

Lowry just didn't turn up.
Finian McGrath and Maureen O'Sullivan were present for the vote but abstained.

All the once ffers always ffers like behan and the two form sligo of course voted for lying to courts.

fuelinjection · 18-02-2010 12:14pm

I am not surprised at this at all, Willie O'Dea is just an example of this.
With anti-social behaviour on the rise in Limerick he is probably worried about his own seat at the next election. "All politics is local" is overused but true.

Not too long ago this type of "nod-and-a-wink the Gardai told me" quote was used by journalists to make allegations and there was no punishment for it. Good to see Willie face some public humiliation for what he did.

Willie O'Dea accused by Sunday Tribune

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