The Class Ridden Psychology of the Conspiracy Theory Debunker

FlameoftheWest

Interesting article this. I tend to agree with the main thrust that CT debunkers are psychologically hard wired to defend and protect the most powerful people and insitutions in the world no mater what. They accept that CTs can happen, they just have some form of deep empathy for US Presidents, Royalty and Big Business. To CT debunkers such people are infalible and will not tolerate that a George Bush, Tony Blair or the CEOs of the worlds most powerful corporations could be psychopaths. It's almost like a class system of sorts.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2010/02/ridicule-of-conspiracy-theories-focuses.html

Indeed, conspiracies are so common that judges are trained to look at conspiracy allegations as just another legal claim to be disproven or proven by the evidence.

But - while people might admit that corporate executives and low-level government officials might have engaged in conspiracies - they may be strongly opposed to considering that the wealthiest or most powerful might possibly have done so.
Indeed, those who most loudly attempt to ridicule and discredit conspiracy theories tend to focus on defending against criticism involving the powerful.

Lab_Mouse

I disagree.I deal which each CT on its own merits,irrespestive of who's involved.

Now if you said dubya bush is a shape changing reppie I would dismiss your claim out of hand.

One thing about any CT involving people high up the power chain is that:

a)they got there by being smart/ruthless etc
b)they arent that stupid to get there hands dirty so more often than not ,its some one from the lower ranks of the power structure gets hung out to dry.Often only leaving a very tenous link to the president or ceo.

humanji

You can just as easily make the claim that all conspiracy theorists are hard wired with a mistrust of all authority. And again, you'd just be making a blanket generalisation.

bytey

this is rubbish

however debunkers , do fall into a habit of close mindedly debunking anything that disturbs or threatens to disturb their image of a predictable
nothing to see here worldview - where governments do not lie , scientific establshments do not lie , and what you see in the media is the real truth .

thats the scary bit - the blind following of the official version- without question.

AND ON THE OTHER HAND

alot of CT theorys are blatant rubbish
and alot of CTERS throw out CT after CT hoping one might stick .

but some - 911 , space exploration , NWO -
do merit assessment - none of these are what they appear to be.

FlameoftheWest

Interesting reponses. Thanks. I do not know were I stand myself on all of these CTs but I am not going to jump into bed with either side. I find both sides psychologically interesting.

The only CT I personally fully signed up for was I was absolutely certain that the "science" behind Man Made Global Warming was complete and total bull**** backed up with propaganda. This is very relevant to this thread as you would also find that many of these foaming at the mouth pro-AGW mouthpieces are also the first ones to shoot down CTs as the delusions of whackos.

The 'proof' they use such as "are you honestly saying thousands of scientists, all the world's media, political structures, banking and business are all lying!" when a CT type bring up the moon hoax or 911 - is just what has been handed right back at them with their beloved Man Made Global Warming Mega Conspiricy of them all.

Climate Gate proved the CT "whackos" to be 100% correct and the true individuals who could think for themselves while being far less easily manipulated by corporate propaganda. Is there something to be learned from the Climate Gate fall out? I think there is. Look at the Green Issues board on this site. The mods are going nuts doing everything they can kill any discussion which challenges their religion.

A part of me wonders if this is all some gigantic psy-op? Almost like to give them they One True Eco Religion and then slay their God they had so much unconditional faith in? In the same way whenever there is a revolution anywhere. The first thing they do is kill off the biggest mouthpieces and defenders of the revolution.

"Useful idiots" indeed... Platos Allegory of the Cave comes to mind.

studiorat

The OP's use of the "class card" is a classic whine. "It's class driven, we're the underdogs". Wrong, CT's are part of a huge industry. They are the internet replacment of folklore. The Exaust Fumes of democracy, as Christopher Hitchens describes them. Conspiracies once purely the domain of right wing extremists have gone mainstream.

Conspiracy theories are popular because no matter what they posit, they are all actually comforting, because they all are models of radical simplicity.

William Gibson, 2007.


The strange thing is that even if the group behing the conspiracy is hostile the conspiracy theorist finds a certain element of reassurance in it. Therefore rendering events that are beyond human control as having some sort of agency behind them. To the conspiracy theorist everything must have a reason, and preferably an element of humanity behind it, thus negating the possibility of events being outside of human control.

According to Namoi Wolf -

Today's explosion of conspiracy theories has been stoked by the same conditions that drove their acceptance in the past: rapid social change and profound economic uncertainty. A clearly designated "enemy" with an unmistakable "plan" is psychologically more comforting than the chaotic evolution of social norms and the workings - or failures - of unfettered capitalism

It would seem some are suffering Media Induced Post Tramuatic Stress Disorder.

“The mistaken belief that a handful of unexplained anomalies can undermine a well-established theory lies at the heart of all conspiratorial thinking (as well as creationism, Holocaust denial and the various crank theories of physics).

Michael Shermer - Scientific American

The central belief of every moron is that he is the victim of a mysterious conspiracy against his common rights and true deserts. He ascribes all his failure to get on in the world, all of his congenital incapacity and damfoolishness, to the machinations of werewolves assembled in Wall Street, or some other such den of infamy

H.L. Mecken - 1936

The OP should also examine exactly who is paying for the evidence against the climate change theory. Exxon Mobil anyone:pac:

mysterious

humanji wrote: »

You can just as easily make the claim that all conspiracy theorists are hard wired with a mistrust of all authority. And again, you'd just be making a blanket generalisation.

Nonsense...

People trust their own authority. You will find that most open minded and intellegent people trust themselves. Conspiracy theorists for the most part apply this aspect to their life. They don't look to the instutions for this "trust"

The biase in your post is spectacular (as usual again with the instutions)

Man with power corrupts all the time. Wars and greed has always been created by the powers of be. History has always repeated. What is it going to take, for you to just get this point?

The point of trusting yourself? Not these governments? They don't have our interests in their hearts. This is something your going to have to face eventually.

mysterious

bytey wrote: »

this is rubbish



alot of CT theorys are blatant rubbish
and alot of CTERS throw out CT after CT hoping one might stick .
.

Oh that was a very immature naive statement to make. First of all, that is incorrect. Secondly that is only your opinion. Thirdly until you jump into the deep end and see how deep it is come back to me and the rest of us with a better developed judgment(I might take it with more credit) , Don't make defenate blatant sterotypes unless you actually swam in the deep end and see how others have learnt what they come to know from endless days of researching the world. Don't judge people based on your perception of seeing others from a distance without actually making some responsibile action in discovering if C.Ts are rubbish or not. That was a very cheap statement. Sounds like something someeone would say in total ignorance to what they don't know.

The last part of your sentence, is an insult and really low. Those kind of comments are below me and I would say are the comments most people say when they don't actually question and reserach what reality is. C.Ts don't make up C.ts so it might stick. That is probably the most ignorant post I have every come across on any forum I've ever been too.

humanji

mysterious wrote: »

Nonsense...

People trust their own authority. You will find that most open minded and intellegent people trust themselves. Conspiracy theorists for the most part apply this aspect to their life. They don't look to the instutions for this "trust"

The biase in your post is spectacular (as usual again with the instutions)

Man with power corrupts all the time. Wars and greed has always been created by the powers of be. History has always repeated. What is it going to take, for you to just get this point?

The point of trusting yourself? Not these governments? They don't have our interests in their hearts. This is something your going to have to face eventually.

Did you actually read my post? Because your reply to it doesn't indicate that you did.

mysterious

Classic example of the biggest cat fight in Americas television history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xht0HcPryWA
It actually started on the breach of the OP argument in this thread. People defending the government in all cost to the pont, to letting the country down,their co workers, families and themselves down. People will find some twisted notion to try and make the tyranny seem smelling of roses.

Elizabeth defended the governments attack on Rosie calling her a "terrorist" for not been patriotic. Rosie asked Elizabeth does she think the statmenets made about "Rosie thinking our troops our terrorists" were true. Elizabeth wouldn't answer, inspite of the bitter attacks Rosie had recieved.

Rosie was snubbed by Elizabeth on T.V to millions about the media attack on Rosie days prior to this last segment. Rosie wanted to see if Elizabeth really thought her as a friend and co worker. She wanted her to tell the truth. Elizabeth been so loyal to the governments, was not going to defend the truth about Rosie for the abuse she had recieved.


This is a classic example of someone going all out on defending the governments even if it means breaking friendships. Sadly this made headlines all over America. All because Rosie was against the war in Iraq, people like Elizabeth spat on Rosie because she was unpatriotic..

Yes, thats the world we live in today and its appauling to see it in such a surreal way.

studiorat

mysterious wrote: »

Nonsense...

People trust their own authority. You will find that most open minded and intellegent people trust themselves. Conspiracy theorists for the most part apply this aspect to their life. They don't look to the instutions for this "trust"

Trust the Conspiracy theory instead. :rolleyes:

mysterious

studiorat wrote: »

Trust the Conspiracy theory instead. :rolleyes:

Stuidio.

I trust myself. Glad to make that more obvious to you.

studiorat

mysterious wrote: »

Stuidio.

I trust myself. Glad to make that more obvious to you.

I guess it's easier than trying to understand the facts.

humanji

Cut out the squabbling!

studiorat

You are missing my point. The conspiracy is a safety blanket to keep the unknown within the realm of humanity.

RGDATA!

mysterious wrote: »

Classic example of the biggest cat fight in Americas television history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xht0HcPryWA

Yes, thats the world we live in today and its appauling to see it in such a surreal way.

respectfully,
while i would agree with you that elizabeth hasslebeck is a complete c*** - and 10s of millions would - you have to acknowledge that there are a spectrum of beliefs. it sometimes seems as though maybe everything is quite black and white and obvious to you, and you are frustrated that not all of the rest of us "get it".

to give you an example of this - while you're pointing out that Rosie is telling the "truth" here (and I agree with you), you might find that you disagree with her views on Obama for whom she was/is a huge cheerleader.

another poster acknowledged this spectrum of beliefs in the last couple of days when he said something like he broadly accepted aspects of the NWO/911 conspiracy theories, but not a lot of other stuff that some posters here would accept as fact.

I think making blanket statments about "CTers" and "skeptics" is fairly pointless. There are aspects in both those characterisations that are true enough for some of the zeolots, but they are gross generalisations.

And I say respectfully to you, that just because someone may not agree with all of your beliefs does not mean that they are sheep/zombies/slaves to authority/blinded by sigh ence/bamboozled by the mainstream media/cannot use their own brain/do not trust their own intelligence.

Truthrevolution

There are two things that drive a skeptic to try debunk the claims.
1.Fear that the conspiracy could turn out to be true (especially the NWO claims)
2.They get a kick out of trying to argue people down and win an argument.
A true skeptic can never be turned no matter how much evidence you put before these people they will just twist the argument around towards another angle.Example-
CT "theres going to be a one world government"
SK "No there isnt your being paranoid"
CT "but look theres the proof"
SK "So whats the big conspiracy, theres nothing wrong with a one world government"

mysterious

RGDATA! wrote: »

respectfully,


And I say respectfully to you, that just because someone may not agree with all of your beliefs does not mean that they are sheep/zombies/slaves to authority/blinded by sigh ence/bamboozled by the mainstream media/cannot use their own brain/do not trust their own intelligence.

Don't twist it around to make it personal to me.
Truth is truth, and it's not conflicting with anything I've said. I also couldn't care less if people don't believe what i have to say, so please don't manipulate my presentation here. I've never EVER said that I think people are zombies to dissagreeing with anything I've said on this forum

With all respect please do not ever do that again. (you've done this with me before) I don't appreiciate people twisting things as you have in a personal subjective way.

Funny how you use the word "respectfully" and then go on been totally disrespectful in the lines from that.:rolleyes:

RGDATA!

Truthrevolution wrote: »

There are two things that drive a skeptic to try debunk the claims.
1.Fear that the conspiracy could turn out to be true (especially the NWO claims)
2.They get a kick out of trying to argue people down and win an argument.
A true skeptic can never be turned no matter how much evidence you put before these people they will just twist the argument around towards another angle.Example-
CT "theres going to be a one world government"
SK "No there isnt your being paranoid"
CT "but look theres the proof"
SK "So whats the big conspiracy, theres nothing wrong with a one world government"

if the argument is this polarized and it's a case of either you're for or against us, then the discussion is destined to go round in circles, nobody will really be convinced on either side and positions become more entrenched.


eg "A true believer can never be turned no matter how much evidence you put before these people they will just twist the argument around towards another angle.

They get a kick out of trying to argue people down and win an argument.

Example-
SK "man landed on the moon"
CT "No he didn't you're just brainwashed by mass media"
SK "but look theres the proof"
CT *rolls eyes*"

Truthrevolution

Truthrevolution wrote: »

There are two things that drive a skeptic CTer to try debunk believe the claims.
1.Fear that the conspiracy could turn out to be true (especially the NWO claims)
2.They get a kick out of trying to argue people down and win an argument.

A true skeptic CTer can never be turned no matter how much evidence you put before these people they will just twist the argument around towards another angle.Example-

SK "they put a man on the moon"
CT "no they didn't, you're just blind"
SK "look at all of the evidence, just look"
CT "I don't believe your evidence, I do my own research"

Fixed your post, as they say.

thecommander

From my year or so on this forum I've learned that believing in a CT is alot like believing in a religion. No matter what proof there is against it, even if its irrefutable, they will still continue to believe in it. It's a faith that cannot be argued against.

In that year nothing that has been discussed has convinced me that any of these CT's are true. The arguments when looked at initially always seem to answer all the questions, but once you drill down and look at the details they fall apart. There's never a smoking gun in the Gbs of data on youtube thats posted as evidence here.

Truthrevolution

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Fixed your post, as they say.

Your way out my friend....
1. I dont fear the so called conspiracies i fight them
2. Im not here to get a kick out of arguing with people, i feel it important that people find out the REAL truth.(in as civilised a manner as possible)

I never made a claim that man never landed on the moon, maybe there is basis for it (no man on moon theory) but unless i can see real smoking gun evidence of things then i dont bother trying to push silly theories.

humanji

thecommander wrote: »

From my year or so on this forum I've learned that believing in a CT is alot like believing in a religion. No matter what proof there is against it, even if its irrefutable, they will still continue to believe in it. It's a faith that cannot be argued against.

In that year nothing that has been discussed has convinced me that any of these CT's are true. The arguments when looked at initially always seem to answer all the questions, but once you drill down and look at the details they fall apart. There's never a smoking gun in the Gbs of data on youtube thats posted as evidence here.

But you can see how it is from the opposite point of view. All there is is the evidence and how it is interpreted. Some interpret it one way and some another. They're just two sides of the one coin.

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Your way out my friend....
1. I dont fear the so called conspiracies i fight them
2. Im not here to get a kick out of arguing with people, i feel it important that people find out the REAL truth.(in as civilised a manner as possible)

I never made a claim that man never landed on the moon, maybe there is basis for it (no man on moon theory) but unless i can see real smoking gun evidence of things then i dont bother trying to push silly theories.

If you don't have to fall into either of those two categories, why must skeptics?

mysterious

thecommander wrote: »

From my year or so on this forum I've learned that believing in a CT is alot like believing in a religion. No matter what proof there is against it, even if its irrefutable, they will still continue to believe in it. It's a faith that cannot be argued against.

In that year nothing that has been discussed has convinced me that any of these CT's are true. The arguments when looked at initially always seem to answer all the questions, but once you drill down and look at the details they fall apart. There's never a smoking gun in the Gbs of data on youtube thats posted as evidence here.

No, religion is dogma and following a system of belief. Conspiracy theorists are the total opposite of that. It's where an individual voids himself away from uniform and conformist way of thinking. The indocrination and dogma of society is actually what Conspiracy theorists see fallacy in.

Science would be closer related to relgion in that regard.:)

studiorat

mysterious wrote: »

No religion is dogma and following a system of belief.

studiorat

studiorat wrote: »

I think mysterious meant "No, religion is dogma and following a system of belief."

RGDATA!

mysterious wrote: »

Don't twist it around to make it personal to me.
Truth is truth, and it's not conflicting with anything I've said. I also couldn't care less if people don't believe what i have to say, so please don't manipulate my presentation here. I've never EVER said that I think people are zombies to dissagreeing with anything I've said on this forum

i was paraphrasing not quoting you. i think you sometimes imply that people who doesn't agree with you on some point are blindly plodding through the world oblivious to the truth and can't think for themselves. if "zombies" isn't a good analogy for this then i withdraw it.

truth is truth, and nobody has a monopoly on it

mysterious

RGDATA! wrote: »

i was paraphrasing not quoting you. i think you sometimes imply that people who doesn't agree with you on some point are blindly plodding through the world oblivious to the truth and can't think for themselves. if "zombies" isn't a good analogy for this then i withdraw it.

truth is truth, and nobody has a monopoly on it

Everyone will see the same truth in the end, its the journey on the way is what makes us see truth differently and subjectively.

It's probably why I'm asking you to stop imposing judgments on me in such arrogant way.

Again, what you think and I what think are very different. It's quite insulting that you keep on making sweeping statements on a public forum in such a rude personal way assuming what I beleive and how I judge people, despite been asked not to do this. You don't know this unless I have told you. You don't know me either. I haven't told you what I was thinking. So don't assume what I was or will be.

I feel your pushing the personal boundary a bit to far, as I've said to you 3 times before. Why do you insist?

This lack of respect to other posters is unbelievable.

RGDATA!

mysterious wrote: »

Everyone will see the same truth in the end, its the journey on the way is what makes us see truth differently and subjectively.

It's probably why I'm asking you to stop imposing judgments on me in such arrogant way.

Again, what you think and I what think are very different. It's quite insulting that you keep on making sweeping statements on a public forum in such a rude personal way assuming what I beleive and how I judge people, despite been asked not to do this. You don't know this unless I have told you. You don't know me either. I haven't told you what I was thinking. So don't assume what I was or will be.

I feel your pushing the personal boundary a bit to far, as I've said to you 3 times before. Why do you insist?

This lack of respect to other posters is unbelievable.

i'm not judging you. i'm giving you my opinion going on what i've read you say. don't take it any more personal than that. it's the internet.

mysterious

RGDATA! wrote: »

i'm not judging you. i'm giving you my opinion going on what i've read you say. don't take it any more personal than that. it's the internet.

Then don't make a assumption like "I think everyone is a sheep if they don't agree with me"


That statement is a sneaky twist and simply not true.

Thats not what I think. You do realise your making a false statement that cuold get you into trouble very easily.

Lab_Mouse

mysterious wrote: »

You do realise your making a false statement that cuold get you into trouble very easily.

He's not makling a false statement.He's offering an opinion on what you post(paraphrasing as he puts it).Report his post if you've got a problem with it and stop trying to goad the chap.simples.

thecommander

mysterious wrote: »

Conspiracy theorists are the total opposite of that. It's where an individual voids himself away from uniform and conformist way of thinking. The indocrination and dogma of society is actually what Conspiracy theorists see fallacy in.

Find that hard to believe. Most of the CTers on here believe the same theories and have the same arguments against skeptics. If they were the total opposite they wouldn't be doing that. The may not conform to the normal way of thinking but they do conform.

Brown Bomber

Truthrevolution wrote: »

A true skeptic can never be turned no matter how much evidence you put before these people they will just twist the argument around towards another angle.

I think you have it the wrong way round. A true skeptic would be open to changing positions and be skeptical of their own position. Unfortunately, what seems to be more common is a religious devotion to material science imo and I for one would hate to live in a world without miracles and faith.

this goes for both sides
My own opinion on why people deny, deny, deny, in the face of solid evidence has got to do with cognitive dissonance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Brown Bomber

thecommander wrote: »

Find that hard to believe. Most of the CTers on here believe the same theories and have the same arguments against skeptics.

Disagree with this from my own observations

Me = Mysterious. On some issues of this earth but certainly the minority overall. I am sceptical to all paranormal CT's

Me = Torackx. No. He seems more into the new-agey stuff

Me = Uprising Getting closer, but certainly don't agree with everything he posts

Truthrevolution = Again no, he seems to be more a follower of the Alex Jones brigade
etc, etc

RGDATA!

mysterious wrote: »

Then don't make a assumption like "I think everyone is a sheep if they don't agree with me"


That statement is a sneaky twist and simply not true.

Thats not what I think. You do realise your making a false statement that cuold get you into trouble very easily.

If I have made a false statement point me to it and I will remove it.
In the above quote you are misquoting me, while you simultaneously accuse me of twisting your words. When you use quotation marks that means you are directly quoting someone and I didn't say what you're quoting me as there.

Also I'm fairly sure I read you say somewhere on the boards that you think 95% of the public are sheep - I can't remember where now but I will search for it if you want the citation. I'm assuming you will remember it yourself.

Again, I will remove any false stament I have made with an apology or as someone else said feel free to report me

Torakx

I have noticed this trend on both sides and have fallen victim to those habits myself in the past.
I am pretty sure there must be a name for this frame of mind.
When i grew up in a certain not so common religion in ireland i found after years of brainwashing i was defending a faith based on only my perspective.
Which was made up from the literature of said religion published.
I had thought i was an authority on the subject because i was in the right religion and had studied thier literature to a sufficient level i could nearly convert co-workers in my spare time.
What i found was because i had a such a strong belief system instilled in me from the ages of 8 yrs to around 23 i would suffer a strong reaction if my faith was questioned.That reaction was to instantly think of any ways i can defend my current perspective so i do not feel unsafe in my thoughts.
It was not to investigate more outside of the box i grew up in.You could say i didnt see the box i was in even though i kept bumping off the in-sides.
Now i am well free of this and i think i can truly understand why "skeptics" and "CT'ers" cling to certain trains of thought once they have gone down that road.
There is nothing anyone can do to stop people reinforcing there belief system.
I think all you can do is not cause so much friction on their journey to the truth as the universe sees it.It is easier to question by first pacing and then leading if you want to CHANGE another persons programming.
But just be sure your programming does not have the same fail safe code i had many years ago before you start

I guess to sum up i think we all suffer from that knee-jerk reaction once we have set down a certain line of thought.If you see someone going down a certain line of thought it is easier to sympathize first while pacing and then lead by questioning politely than jumping in and questioning there ego instead.

Ps. Both CT'ers and skeptics and those inbetween and those with green skin or 6 toes on one foot etc etc are all guilty of this at least once in there lives.So i couldnt agree with the topic as being unbiased.People are hardwired the same.They just all have slightly different programs installed.

mysterious

RGDATA! wrote: »

If I have made a false statement point me to it and I will remove it.
In the above quote you are misquoting me, while you simultaneously accuse me of twisting your words. When you use quotation marks that means you are directly quoting someone and I didn't say what you're quoting me as there.

Also I'm fairly sure I read you say somewhere on the boards that you think 95% of the public are sheep - I can't remember where now but I will search for it if you want the citation. I'm assuming you will remember it yourself.

Again, I will remove any false stament I have made with an apology or as someone else said feel free to report me

The illuminati/bloodlines and big coporations, yes thats a fact. Tje 95% figure would be about right if 5% control the planet. I was in the herd too. We all were. Oh dear see how I can be just real about it and still be honest with myself. Wake up time is hard reality to deal with, because its only then you realised just how sucked into the matrix we are when all the **** you repressed in yourself just comes out. Yes I do see the world like zombie nation. When I go into town and I look around, I see it more and more as technology and materilism takes over our lives. Most people just work, eat, sleep now paying off debts. People prefer to be led than to take the lead. The majority of the population now are so out of touch with reality its the reason, why depression, abuse, war, many disesase, cancers, psychological disorders are rising. People have become so materialistic to the point people have no soul. Why do I feel all this, because if you look at your own life you will see that you abused yourself and allowed yourself to be abused or treated like the herd. We all are on this sinking ship and it's we that has to jump into the sea and swim to the shore ourselves. We are responsible for ourselves, that is to me is someoen whos been realists and really waking up. Waking up to the real world that we refuse to see and accept that is part of our reality.


I have no guilt in saying this, as this is my belief and this is the belief of many and most people who are acutely aware of whats going on in the world. If were alll awakened the world would be a lot better place than it is now. But right now its not, hell is breaking loose as we speak. So I'd rather be realistic about this, and stop trying to pretend everything is just great when its far from it.

I reported the post and it was not dealt with and I would prefer if you stopped trying to personalise this towards me, so Again I will rebute my point because on every thread since you have come to this forum you have been almost stalking me with these kind of personal posts/ Questioning me like I have no place to stand by my beliefs. And When I ask why do you insisting on negating where I stand on issues. To be quite honest I do not respect the way your judging me all the time.


This is the reason why I've reported your post because this thread isn't abuot me, so stop stalking me with this on going perceptions of how I may see things.. You don't know me or how I think.



I quoteed your phrase in a smaller sentence, but hell don't think it doesnt imply the exact same meaning.

that just because someone may not agree with all of your beliefs does not mean that they are sheep/zombies/slaves to authority/blinded by sigh ence/bamboozled by the mainstream media/cannot use their own brain/do not trust their own intelligence.

I don't care if people don't believe in my beliefs. I don't care if you don't believe in what I think. Can you understand that.nInfact my philosphy in life is not to not believing in yourself but to be allowing of yourself. Having a belief is still an illusion. This false hope of something you wish to exist by hypothisis.

I do however have great respect for people who are individuals and think for themselves. I also commend people who use their own brain and our aware of the brainwashing and dangers to the mainstream/system. it's basic cop on, that you can figure out what ticks in this world without having to follow mainstream thought. I have always said that and I will always keep saying that. I respect people who simply use their intellegence and power in a responsible way. I do not bother with people who don't nor do I need to judge others because they don't. You may want to go overboard in this stalkerish stance of where I stand with others and have this urge to try figure out what I'm thinking.

You are twisting it, There is a difference here. I've told you where I stand, but where I stand does not and should not affect my position of judgment of others. If people don't agree with me thats ok. Don't put words in my mouth and say that I may think people are sheep because they don't believe in what I have to say. I frankly don't care what you think.

thecommander

mysterious wrote: »

I do however wish people would use their own brain and stop depending on the mainstream/system to figure out what ticks in this world. I have always said that and I will always keep saying that.

Why is mainstream so inherently bad? I'm sure theres a percentage of it is, like all things but why should we writeoff the rest?

Just seems to me like the indie kid that will hate anything thats in the charts, just because it is, even if a song is good.

mysterious

The first paragraph in my previous post, would explain why many deniars and people who are loyal to the shepard, is because deep down they don't want to face self responsibilty for this **** in the world, because our great governments will look after us.

I feel this is a big part to the underlining issue deep in the subconcious of one who is always out to defend the government or instutions that blatantly lie to us all the time.

mysterious

thecommander wrote: »

Why is mainstream so inherently bad? I'm sure theres a percentage of it is, like all things but why should we writeoff the rest?

Just seems to me like the indie kid that will hate anything thats in the charts, just because it is, even if a song is good.

I don't think in polarization good and bad mindset. I'm not a left brain thinker. There is no rigid defenate answer to everything. Rephrase your question better and I may answer it.

thecommander

mysterious wrote: »

I don't think in polarization good and bad mindset. I'm not a left brain thinker. There is no rigid defenate answer to everything. Rephrase your question better and I may answer it.

Can you not just give a straight answer? Its a straightforward question

Why do you believe that mainstream is so inherently bad?

mysterious

thecommander wrote: »

Can you not just give a straight answer? Its a straightforward question

Why do you believe that mainstream is so inherently bad?

Can you give me a inherently good reason as to why its good.

In other words I don't think in polarizing extremes.:) There is good and bad in everythng. It's why I seek for balance. If you can rephrase your question a little better if you can't, tough. Nobody here dedicates their life to answering your ingrained demanding questions.

thecommander

mysterious wrote: »

Can you give me a inherently good reason as to why its good.

In other words I don't think in polarizing extremes.:) There is good and bad in everythng. It's why I seek for balance. If you can rephrase your question a little better if you can't, tough. Nobody here dedicates their life to answering your ingrained demanding questions.

Was just asking a simple question, doesn't really matter that much.

espinolman

thecommander wrote: »

Why is mainstream so inherently bad? I'm sure theres a percentage of it is, like all things but why should we writeoff the rest?

You have to know history to see why mainstream establishment is bad , the PTB want to keep the populace ignorant and stupid and thats the way its always been and is today .

Truthrevolution

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Disagree with this from my own observations

Me = Mysterious. On some issues of this earth but certainly the minority overall. I am sceptical to all paranormal CT's

Me = Torackx. No. He seems more into the new-agey stuff

Me = Uprising Getting closer, but certainly don't agree with everything he posts

Truthrevolution = Again no, he seems to be more a follower of the Alex Jones brigade
etc, etc

Although we have different perspectives, i think all the guys you mention including me share the same goal - exposing the evil agendas that people prefer to ignore, and bringing out the TRUTH.There will be a lot more of us "cospiracy theorists" to come, the awakening is happening all around us.
p.s Im not as big a fan of AJ as you may think lol

Lab_Mouse

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Although we have different perspectives, i think all the guys you mention including me share the same goal - exposing the evil agendas that people prefer to ignore, and bringing out the TRUTH.

Nothing wrong with that at all truth revolution.

There will be a lot more of us "cospiracy theorists" to come, the awakening is happening all around us.

If might happen a lot quicker if people answered questions(justifiable ones)honestly with the reasoning behind their point of view because if it is the TRUTH it will stand up to those questions.Anything else is just conjecture imho and should be discussed as such

Truthrevolution

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that at all truth revolution.
If might happen a lot quicker if people answered questions(justifiable ones)honestly with the reasoning behind their point of view because if it is the TRUTH it will stand up to those questions.Anything else is just conjecture imho and should be discussed as such

Glad you agree.I always answer as many questions as possible (within reason) with as much evidence as possible.I would not insult people by trying to get them to believe silly theories with no back-up.

mysterious

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Disagree with this from my own observations

Me = Mysterious. On some issues of this earth but certainly the minority overall. I am sceptical to all paranormal CT's

Me = Torackx. No. He seems more into the new-agey stuff

Me = Uprising Getting closer, but certainly don't agree with everything he posts

Truthrevolution = Again no, he seems to be more a follower of the Alex Jones brigade
etc, etc

i'm not a paranormal C.T.:p.

I'm a cosmic being living a human experience. i am here in flesh completing my purpose for bringing universal conciouness back into balance within this universe.

I'm not anything you think I am, nor am anything you probably imagine I am to be.

The simple truth is, in your descrrptive post, most people are confused by whats normal and whats not. People view things that are not normal are thing/'s they are not familar with or have experienced. In ignorance we tend to view everything unknown to us in the world as psychotic, nuts, crazy, unseen, unprovable, untouchable, unimaginable. We tend to label things so we can pretend we can see things better. But the truth to that is again, illusion. Labelling to me makes to much generalization and denial to the consciousness of all things and perspectives.


I however am in total acceptance of the unknown in all facets. I will not judge soemthing unless I throughly understand the message and experience from it. Onced known and understood I simply move on to the next stage.

Most of what I'm in acceptance of, others have a hard part in facing or dealing with, its probably why I get labelled, "the PARA- normal C.T, or simply to extreme in my views.

It's the total opposite infact.

This world isn't a "normal" experience its an experienment unlike anything ever existing within this universe EVER.

mysterious

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

Anything else is just conjecture imho and should be discussed as such

Discussed with who and what standard to whos standards?

thecommander

espinolman wrote: »

You have to know history to see why mainstream establishment is bad , the PTB want to keep the populace ignorant and stupid and thats the way its always been and is today .

Take for instance youtube. Youtube is mainstream, owned by a huge multi billion dollar corporation. Yet every day there are links put up here from Youtube. Now, am I to believe that this is bad?

Also, when it suits, there are links put up to Reuters, BBC, RTE etc that may support a CT in some way. Why is this taken as OK, yet other times its not?

mysterious

thecommander wrote: »

Take for instance youtube. Youtube is mainstream, owned by a huge multi billion dollar corporation. Yet every day there are links put up here from Youtube. Now, am I to believe that this is bad?

Also, when it suits, there are links put up to Reuters, BBC, RTE etc that may support a CT in some way. Why is this taken as OK, yet other times its not?

Youtube isn't mainstream in the literal sense, simply because individuals use the medium. For individual reasons. This is lets say different to CNN and fox, where its totally coporation agenda propaganda spewing and voices only.

There is mainstream crap on youtube there is no doubt about that, Youtube itself is not constricted to mainstream. Infact youtube is whats creating the global conciousness on this planet, where billions are now youtube broadcasting their "own" mediums to broadcast themselves in the world.

This is the opposite of been mainstream. Youtube are trying to censor it, but they will fail each time. Youtube used to have much better distrubuted vids, but it too has been censored and taken major steps to make it more mainstream as another way to control the masses.