ESB - €11,000 as final bill?!

{^Syntax^}

I have been renting a property since 2005. The ESB meter is inside the house in the garage which is an extension. I recently bought a house and have moved out of the rented property. I called in the meter reading to close the account and I was told by several ESB Customer Service Reps that because the meter reading I called in (23215) was much lower than the one they have (52344) I was owed about €4000 - I had over paid over the years it would seem...

The ESB are now saying that the original meter reading the Estate Agent called in, in 2005, was higher than the one I called in when closing (31120) and that the meter had done a full cycle, over the 99999 and back to 23215 and that I owe them €11,000.

Obvioulsy because the ESB meter was internal, the guy never got to read it. I would've been in work.. I did however, let them in a couple of times to read the meter and I thought this would've allowed them to rectify any innacuracy.

What are my rights here? :mad:

Thank you,

S.

Max Power1

I'd be contacting ESB (maybe networks and not supply) and estab;ishing when the last accurate read was taken, and what it was. If you say you let the reader in there should be an accurate read taken. May be difficult to figure out what the correct coa here is. A lesson to all - dont let your bills be estimated for years!

rubadub

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

The ESB are now saying that the original meter reading the Estate Agent called in, in 2005, was higher than the one I called in when closing (31120) and that the meter had done a full cycle, over the 99999 and back to 23215 and that I owe them €11,000.

Unless you have a cannabis farm with millions of grow lights then €11,000 sounds like a lot of electricity! have you any idea what you do actually use? you could take readings over a week. It would make more sense that the estate agent called in the wrong number, or they took it down wrong.

Paulw

You have the ability to provide ESB with your meter reading at any stage. On each bill there is an option to report in your meter reading.

You should have done this, especially if most of your bills are estimated.

I'm not sure what sort of grounds you would have (if any) to object to their bill now.

{^Syntax^}

I called in a meter reading in 2006 / 2007 - They are saying there's no record of this... I was onto ESB Networks who are saying the last correct meter reading was in 2004.

This can't be correct. I didn't have anything special in that house, just a couple of laptops, TV, Washing machine etc. The usual.

This can't be right. The bill averaged about €120 per month.

Cabaal

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

I called in a meter reading in 2006 / 2007 - They are saying there's no record of this... I was onto ESB Networks who are saying the last correct meter reading was in 2004.

Easy check if they did receive them, check bills from this period to see if they were estimated or meter readings

dudara

You have a start reading and an end reading. The next step is to determine if other readings exist. You mention leaving in meter readings sometimes, so their readings should be on the system. Their readings should corroborate this idea of the meter rolling over.

Pull out the old bills (if you still have them) and see if any of the readings are without letters next to them - this means that they are official readings.

The onus is on the ESB to prove that the meter rolled over. I wouldn't accept their statement that it rolled over without proof. Otherwise you could counter with the argument that the person who called in the meter reading all those years ago made a mistake.

looksee

You are saying that you have been paying €120 a month, and yet you still owe them 11,000? My bill for a family house was around €120 this time because I was using an electric heater during the very cold weather, usually its around €90 (with Bord Gais).

It is not impossible for there to be a misconnection somewhere and for you to be paying for someone else's electricity, could you get an electrician to check it out? Would the estate agent be co-operative?

grizzly

I had funny readings in my place. Found I had two meters. Both placed near each other, but one was for the street lights (no idea way it was setup this way). Check you have the right MPR.

grizzly

looksee wrote: »

You are saying that you have been paying €120 a month, and yet you still owe them 11,000? My bill for a family house was around €120 this time because I was using an electric heater during the very cold weather, usually its around €90 (with Bord Gais).

It is not impossible for there to be a misconnection somewhere and for you to be paying for someone else's electricity, could you get an electrician to check it out? Would the estate agent be co-operative?

Yeah, it's very possible that a previous occupier gave a low reading by mistake or to avoid a large bill. Always a good idea to check readings when you move into a property.

{^Syntax^}

Well I certainly don't plan on paying anything until I have proof that they are accurate and the meter isn't faulty. I have checked most of my bills over the years and they all have E after the number (TARIF: Domestic).

There's a bill in 2007 that has P after the reading?

I mean, I pay on average €120 per month for 5 years, that's €7,200 - I don't see how they can clock up €17,000 for a domestic property....

Paulw

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

Well I certainly don't plan on paying anything until I have proof that they are accurate and the meter isn't faulty. I have checked most of my bills over the years and they all have E after the number (TARIF: Domestic).

From https://www.esb.ie/esbcustomersupply/residential/your_account/understand_your_bill.jsp

Meter readings

This shows the first and last meter reading for your billing period.

If there is an 'E' beside either number, it means the reading has been estimated.
If there is a 'C' beside either number, it means the reading has been taken by a customer.

91011

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

Well I certainly don't plan on paying anything until I have proof that they are accurate and the meter isn't faulty. I have checked most of my bills over the years and they all have E after the number (TARIF: Domestic).

There's a bill in 2007 that has P after the reading?

I mean, I pay on average €120 per month for 5 years, that's €7,200 - I don't see how they can clock up €17,000 for a domestic property....

I have a 4 bed detached. Usual washing, fridges, electric shower, portable heater for heating boost, oven, diswasher, lights. 2 people living in the house.

Average bill over past 3 years is about €200 per 2 month period.

Unless you are using electricity for all heating and have the heating on constantly, it is highly unlikely that you have the usage ESB is claiming.

{^Syntax^}

I have most of my bills filed. I'm looking at the first one I have in my file here, dated shortly after I moved into the house in 2005. There are two readings... A Present Reading which has an E at the end of it and a Previous Peading which has a C at the end of it.

It looks like the Estate Agent called in the meter reading and the first bill was estimated :eek:

The reading with C at the end of it is 31290C and I called in 23215 when closing.... Does this mean they are actually right? F**********!!!

I don't ever remember calling in a meter reading, I'm sure it was the estate agent (they are currently trying to dig out the file).

Paulw

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

It looks like the Estate Agent called in the meter reading and the first bill was estimated :eek:

The reading with C at the end of it is 31290C and I called in 23215 when closing.... Does this mean they are actually right? F**********!!!

I don't ever remember calling in a meter reading, I'm sure it was the estate agent (they are currently trying to dig out the file).

Pure speculation here, but what if the agent read the meter wrong? What if it was 81290 and not 31290???

If all readings after that are estimates, then they are just adding a guess on top of the last confirmed customer reading.

You're in a very difficult position, if you don't have readings in between.

{^Syntax^}

Thanks for the info all.

I can't see any other C meter readings on the bills. The ESB said that last correct meter reading was in 2004 but I wasn't living there then.

I wonder if it was the Estate Agent that called in it in, in December.

Do you think I could have an Electrician look at the meter with the permission of the land lord to make sure it's working okay? It's VERY old looking and wouldn't have been serviced in a long time.

I can't see any other readings on my bills with C at the end of them. The ESB said they'd come up with a long term payment plan if I do have to fork out for this which is a help but I'm now paying a mortgage and other loans! Serves me right for not calling in the reading I guess but it's very excessive!

RangeR

I know I'm being extremely flippant here but if you find that you are liable, it may be cheaper for you to leave the country.


That's an awful amount of money for a domestic house to use over that period. Something has to be wrong. I'd be getting an electrician out to check the box.

{^Syntax^}

If it's over a long term period it might not be too bad.. It's just a real shock considering I've just bought a house on my own. My partner is out of work so I'm trying to do everything myself... Mortgage, bills, food etc.

Now this..

Dublin_Gunner

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

If it's over a long term period it might not be too bad.. It's just a real shock considering I've just bought a house on my own. My partner is out of work so I'm trying to do everything myself... Mortgage, bills, food etc.

Now this..

Just looking over your posts - you don't seem overly concerned about the fact that you may not have used this electricity.

Is there any way that you could have used that much electricity? I would find it hard to believe unless you were running heavy electrical machinery and electric storage heaters off it 24/7 that you could be using that much electricity.

rubadub

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

The reading with C at the end of it is 31290C and I called in 23215 when closing.... Does this mean they are actually right?

I doubt they are telling lies but it has to be a mess up and I am surprised they are not even questioning if you have high usage, -it reminds me of that little britain "computer says no" sketch. Surely they have to investigate as there is obviously something wrong.

Apart from the estate agent they should be able to check the previous tenants usage. I was joking about the cannabis farm but seriously I have read of neighbours tapping into another neighbours supply and effectively syphoning off electricity, or otherwise bypassing the electricity box to grow cannabis. In a few cases this is how they caught them out, in the UK anyway, they are meant to have a main counter on the street and if all the houses meters read less than the main street count they know tampering is going on -or conversely a faulty meter spinning to fast.

If the flat is wired incorrectly by mistake or on purpose your landlord or some other crafty tenant could have minimal bills stealing your electricity.

I think they could investigate if they wanted to, on the flipside this means I could use loads of electricity for years, and let it go over 99999 several times and just pay like it went over once.

gpjordanf1

Cant you get the last meter reading that was done in 2004
then the meter reading done in 2005? and then where you are now, two out of 3 should be right and take it from there?

Thats where I would start because I suspect the estate agents in 2005 gave a wrong reading.

MarkR

Try filling in the energy cost calculator on the esb site, and compare it to a weeks usage where you check the readings start to finish.

It will give you an idea at least to how much you are using per week, and what you may have used over the years.

{^Syntax^}

Just spoke to my solicitor.. He's going to contact them.

Guy:Incognito

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

Thanks for the info all.

I can't see any other C meter readings on the bills. The ESB said that last correct meter reading was in 2004 but I wasn't living there then.!

Can they tell you what that reading was from 2004? If it was up near 81290 then it points to the estate agent reading your initial one wrong as PaulW says. If is down under 31290 then it's looking like the ESB are right.

jimoc

According to
http://www.esb.ie/esbcustomersupply/residential/your_account/our_reading_policy.jsp

ESB should be reading your meter at least 4 times a year.
Did they give you an explanation as to why they have not read your meter in over 5 years?

jor el

jimoc wrote: »

Did they give you an explanation as to why they have not read your meter in over 5 years?

The meter is in the garage, so the occupant has a responsibility to let them in or submit accurate readings.

the_syco

jor el wrote: »

The meter is in the garage, so the occupant has a responsibility to let them in or submit accurate readings.

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

Obvioulsy because the ESB meter was internal, the guy never got to read it. I would've been in work.. I did however, let them in a couple of times to read the meter and I thought this would've allowed them to rectify any innacuracy.

Seems he did leave them in a few times, but they (meter readers) didn't keep a record of the visit, it seems :S

jhegarty

Any chance there is a wrong account number associated with the meter ?

EKRIUQ

In a slightly related topic, a tenant in a friend's house moved out 2 weeks ago and my friend was sorting out the ESB bill. The bill had been estimated for the last 24 months and the ESB had estimated the bill to be €7 for a 2 month period (not too sure why it was this amount maybe because the house had been vacant for a long time before) which the tenant never paid and had arrears of €63.

Luckily they had a forwarding address for the tenant who won't be too happy getting the balance of the bill.

{^Syntax^}

If only they were hitting me with a bill for €63. There's a bit of a difference between that and €11,000. :mad:

There was definitely a meter reading taken in 2006 / 2007 as I was sharing with friends. The annoying thing about this is that it was shared accomodation but the bill was in my name as I was the first there.

Grumpypants

I wonder if the estate agent gave the full number ie included the red number at the end as well ? I dont think you are meant to include that one (that may be a gas meter)
And are the bills you recieved for every month or every 2 months ?

If the 31,120 the estate agent rang in was actually 3,120. Then the ESB have been working off the wrong number as a starting point.

That would mean you used around 20,000 units of esb over the 4 years (23215-3112)
Unit ESB cost would be about 16 cent : 20,000 units @ .16 = 3200euro or 800 per year. If your bills are every 2 months then thats about 133ish euro per bill average. Which is around the amount you have paid all along (120). (its out a little but an awfull lot of estimating has gone on here on the part of the ESB).

To round it all up the ESB estimated your usage at around 20,000 for 4 years which you paid for. Its all too convient for the numbers to be about 20,000 out when you look at them. 31,000+20,000 = 51,000 (around the reading the ESB estimate) 3,112+20,000= 23,112(around the reading you Estimate). 20,000 The amount of units you paid for.

How you prove it is a different question? other than taking it further and showing that to use the amount of unit they are suggesting to make the meter go full circle (around 90,000 units) would power a small street for a number of years. Any reasonable person could see that that isnt the case.