ESB - €11,000 as final bill?!

MOH

Rulmeq wrote: »

Now if the house is as old as you say the meter was, it's probably lacking proper insulation, and probably had an immersion heater without a timer (I know lots of leaping to conclusions here).

Aside from the immersion bit, it was oil heated , which makes the bill even more daft

Biffo The Bare

Grumpypants wrote: »

One suggestion. Don't take this the wrong way, but at least read the thread before you make suggestions like that. The OP has clearly had his **** together as he got and paid his ESB bill on time for 5 years this problem only arose when he closed the account and then found out a meter reading that was given by a estate agent 5 years ago which he has no control or knowledge of was incorrect.

When you move to a new premises, and set up an electricity account, you always get a faq brochure from the supply company. Well I have been sent these over the last 20 years when I set up a new account.
It normally goes something like this:

Before You Move
Keep a note of your gas & electricity meter readings
Keep a note of the readings and the dates on which they were taken in case you do not agree with your final bills.
If you do not tell your supplier before you move, you may have to keep paying the bills for your previous home after you have moved.
If possible, tell the people moving into your old home the name of the gas and electricity supplier. You could do this by telling your estate agent, landlord or letting agent. Also give them your gas Meter Point Reference Number and your Electricity Supply Number (you will find these on your energy bills).

After You Move
Keep a note of your gas & electricity meter readings in your new premises.
When you move into a new property, you will be given a supply under a 'deemed contract'. This means that the gas or electricity supplier of the previous occupant automatically becomes your supplier at the property.
When you move in (or earlier if the property is in your name), contact the current supplier at your new property to provide your details and the meter reading for the day that you took over. This will allow the supplier to send an accurate first bill.

10000maniacs

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

When you move to a new premises, and set up an electricity account, you always get a faq brochure from the supply company. Well I have been sent these over the last 20 years when I set up a new account.
It normally goes something like this:

Before You Move
Keep a note of your gas & electricity meter readings
Keep a note of the readings and the dates on which they were taken in case you do not agree with your final bills.
If you do not tell your supplier before you move, you may have to keep paying the bills for your previous home after you have moved.
If possible, tell the people moving into your old home the name of the gas and electricity supplier. You could do this by telling your estate agent, landlord or letting agent. Also give them your gas Meter Point Reference Number and your Electricity Supply Number (you will find these on your energy bills).

After You Move
Keep a note of your gas & electricity meter readings in your new premises.
When you move into a new property, you will be given a supply under a 'deemed contract'. This means that the gas or electricity supplier of the previous occupant automatically becomes your supplier at the property.
When you move in (or earlier if the property is in your name), contact the current supplier at your new property to provide your details and the meter reading for the day that you took over. This will allow the supplier to send an accurate first bill.

Most people don't need a faq sheet to do this, they do it anyway. But its good advice for the people who don't read the ESB faqs.

Fnergg

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

When I was trying to close the ESB didn't ask me for the MPRN number.. I was asked for a 4 Digit number which I supplied.

I did however take note of another 8 digit number that doesn't match anything on my bill?

The MPRN number on my bill isn't on the meter.

The MPRN doesn't appear on the meter. Nor does the meter number appear on the bill.

A meter malfunction is unlikely but with a bill for €11k I'd ask the ESB to test the meter.

Regards,

Fnergg

Davy

Their would be a serial number on the meter that esb would have on the account also so these could be matched if their was doubts that it wasn't the correct meter

{^Syntax^}

The ESB are sending someone out to test the meter. I've had a very helpful gentleman dealing with my case who has given me past readings supplied by previous occupants.

I dont think we ever used the electricity excessively. We had a couple of TVs, Microwave, Cooker, Laptops, Stereo's etc. Just the usual household items. We had evergy saving light bulbs all over the house.

The only thing I can think of that may have adversely affected the eletricity is we had a lot of shorts. Light bulbs blew out regularly and fuses in electrical appliances blew. There's a major problem with mold in the house that was one of the main reasons for us leaving. The land lady has builders in at the moment. The meter looks like an old one and the house itself is quite old. It had a lot of problems. Leaks and eletrical faults. There was a problem with the house alarm whereby it wouldn't switch off at all so I had a friend, who is an electrician, remove the battery. He said he taped up the mains wires.

jimoc

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

The ESB are sending someone out to test the meter. I've had a very helpful gentleman dealing with my case who has given me past readings supplied by previous occupants.

I dont think we ever used the electricity excessively. We had a couple of TVs, Microwave, Cooker, Laptops, Stereo's etc. Just the usual household items. We had evergy saving light bulbs all over the house.

The only thing I can think of that may have adversely affected the eletricity is we had a lot of shorts. Light bulbs blew out regularly and fuses in electrical appliances blew. There's a major problem with mold in the house that was one of the main reasons for us leaving. The land lady has builders in at the moment. The meter looks like an old one and the house itself is quite old. It had a lot of problems. Leaks and eletrical faults. There was a problem with the house alarm whereby it wouldn't switch off at all so I had a friend, who is an electrician, remove the battery. He said he taped up the mains wires.

Hopefully he taped them seperately and not together
Don't know whether it would blow up, go on fire or just be a constant draw on the electricity, but it might be worth researching a bit.

{^Syntax^}

I'm sure he tape them seperately! Jeez.... That'd be awful if the bill was so high for a mistake my friend made!

Fnergg

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

The ESB are sending someone out to test the meter. I've had a very helpful gentleman dealing with my case who has given me past readings supplied by previous occupants.

I dont think we ever used the electricity excessively. We had a couple of TVs, Microwave, Cooker, Laptops, Stereo's etc. Just the usual household items. We had evergy saving light bulbs all over the house.

The only thing I can think of that may have adversely affected the eletricity is we had a lot of shorts. Light bulbs blew out regularly and fuses in electrical appliances blew. There's a major problem with mold in the house that was one of the main reasons for us leaving. The land lady has builders in at the moment. The meter looks like an old one and the house itself is quite old. It had a lot of problems. Leaks and eletrical faults. There was a problem with the house alarm whereby it wouldn't switch off at all so I had a friend, who is an electrician, remove the battery. He said he taped up the mains wires.

That sounds VERY worrying.

It looks to me that there was a fault in the internal wiring or in one or other of the items of electrical equipment.

And now that the builders are in renovating the premises such a fault will probably be fixed and you will be none the wiser.

Something similar happened to me years ago. I got a huge bill. When I switched everything off the meter disc was still spinning around. An electrician friend identified the problem as a leakage to earth fault. A wire underneath the floor boards had been gnawed bare by a rodent and it caused electricity to leak directly into earth via the meter. I had to pay up and look merry even though I had no beneficial use of the electricity.

I would wager that something similar happened in your case.

At least I was able to do something about it because my bill was based on an actual reading. If I had been getting regular estimates I would eventually have ended up paying a lot more.

Regards,

Fnergg

{^Syntax^}

Fnergg, that does sound familiar! We had a bad vermin problem. Another huge reason for leaving the property! We'd see them in the kitchen at night time or hear them in the attic. The place was in such a state.. I'll send photos of the mold infestatioin...

It was BAD.. Growing everywhere. Especially on the bathroom ceiling and on the back of the internal walls. Behind the radiators...

Fnergg

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

Fnergg, that does sound familiar! We had a bad vermin problem. Another huge reason for leaving the property! We'd see them in the kitchen at night time or hear them in the attic. The place was in such a state.. I'll send photos of the mold infestatioin...

It was BAD.. Growing everywhere. Especially on the bathroom ceiling and on the back of the internal walls. Behind the radiators...

That, almost certainly, is the reason for the huge usage you have been billed for. The wiring must have been in a mess.

I'd still ask the ESB to test the meter - they will probably do it as a matter of course anyhow for such a huge usage - but I doubt if it's faulty. Electricity meters are very reliable instruments.

Regards,

Fnergg

{^Syntax^}

I'm being told there's a full investigation underway. Hopefully something will emerge that'll void this bill. I still can't believe it..

{^Syntax^}

Here are some links that give an idea of how bad the mold problem was in the house. These photos were taken in 2009 and the ceiling had only been painted a few months prior. When I was leaving there was actually no white visible at all. It had turned completely black.

bigbadbear

Just to let you know (although if you have seen a solicitor you may already know this) It is going to be up to the ESB to eventually sue you for the money not the other way round. They will have to convince a judge (but not prove) that you used the electricity and you will have to convince him/her otherwise. I certainly wouldn't be coughing up €11K without a fight.

{^Syntax^}

Has anything like this ever happened to anyone else?

Fnergg

Hopefully the eventual outcome will be acceptable to you but the brute fact remains: you never, in your 5 years as a customer, made sure to get a bill based on actual readings.

Every bill showed the reading as estimated.

It would have been a simple thing to check the meter and phone in a reading.

Why in heaven's name did you not do something about it?

If the ESB can't get access the onus is on the customer to make sure the bill is correct.

It's hardly rocket science.

Fnergg

{^Syntax^}

I'm aware of that now but at the time I didn't realise I had to do anything.. I thought I was paying my bill when it came out and that's what I did - I paid what was on the bill. I was never late with payment either.

The ESB have confirmed that the meter was read by an ESB Engineer in 2007 but the guy must've made a mistake as the reading was never billed. It is on record however. Had I been aware of this back then, the bill would've been closer to €4000.

They are being very helpful to try and come to a mutually acceptible arrangement.

ttm

Fnergg wrote: »

Hopefully the eventual outcome will be acceptable to you but the brute fact remains: you never, in your 5 years as a customer, made sure to get a bill based on actual readings.

Every bill showed the reading as estimated.

It would have been a simple thing to check the meter and phone in a reading.

Why in heaven's name did you not do something about it?

If the ESB can't get access the onus is on the customer to make sure the bill is correct.

It's hardly rocket science.

Fnergg

And its hardly rocket science for the ESB to do a little more than put an E beside the reading for 5 years.

Did they ever send a letter pointing this out? Do they have an automated system to send letters after x number of Estimates. I doubt it.

Where also is any proof that a meter reader bothered to call or left a card to indicate the meter han't been read?

IrishTonyO

ttm wrote: »

And its hardly rocket science for the ESB to do a little more than put an E beside the reading for 5 years.

Did they ever send a letter pointing this out? Do they have an automated system to send letters after x number of Estimates. I doubt it.

Where also is any proof that a meter reader bothered to call or left a card to indicate the meter han't been read?

After a few estimates they leave a cardboard notice with a section to fill in the meter reading and every bill has the same section on it, thats proof enough on your bills

ttm

IrishTonyO wrote: »

After a few estimates they leave a cardboard notice with a section to fill in the meter reading and every bill has the same section on it, thats proof enough on your bills

But so far the OP has not indicated he had a "cardboard notice" left at the house, and if you check this and other ESB/bill threads its not uncommon for people not to know what C, E or a lack of any letter next to a reading on a bill means.

Tail Wagger

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

I have been renting a property since 2005. The ESB meter is inside the house in the garage which is an extension. I recently bought a house and have moved out of the rented property. I called in the meter reading to close the account and I was told by several ESB Customer Service Reps that because the meter reading I called in (23215) was much lower than the one they have (52344) I was owed about €4000 - I had over paid over the years it would seem...

The ESB are now saying that the original meter reading the Estate Agent called in, in 2005, was higher than the one I called in when closing (31120) and that the meter had done a full cycle, over the 99999 and back to 23215 and that I owe them €11,000.

Obvioulsy because the ESB meter was internal, the guy never got to read it. I would've been in work.. I did however, let them in a couple of times to read the meter and I thought this would've allowed them to rectify any innacuracy.

What are my rights here? :mad:

Thank you,

S.

---

Hard luck just Pay the bill I'd say.!:cool:

some years ago I moved into a house which was previously a summer holiday
home for an elderly couple. However, like you the meter was in the garage attached to the house.
I kept getting a bill every two months for £30 - £40 which we taught was to cheap, we of course assumed that the meter was being read.... two years down the line with a family of 6 and renovations going on we finally had the meter read.
I received a bill from the ESB for £2,500 + a few quid, and marked over due I was sick as a Parrot. At the end of the day I had to pay off the bill in total. I know it's a terrible shock and I don't think there is anything you'r going to be able to do. Still chin up, I'm sure you must have been a bit suspicious with the bills you were receiving

{^Syntax^}

I never got a card? I just got the bills. I never knew I had to do something until I phoned the ESB when I was leaving the house and they asked for a meter reading. When the bill came I just looked at how much it was, paid it and filed it away.

When I moved in I was a student then for a couple of years I was working two jobs. From 9am until 10:30pm - I worked most weekends too.

I didn't have time to read documentation on what I'm supposed to do with services I was supscribed to. Any other service I had I just paid monthly and closed the accounts when I left, no problem. Broadband, Phone, NTL etc.

{^Syntax^}

Tail Wagger wrote: »

Still chin up, I'm sure you must have been a bit suspicious with the bills you were receiving

Not at all. The bill was always between €120 and €200 - Why would that raise suspicion with me for 3 / 4 people? The ESB are saying my average bill should've been between €350 and €550.

IrishTonyO

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

I didn't have time to read documentation on what I'm supposed to do with services I was supscribed to. Any other service I had I just paid monthly and closed the accounts when I left, no problem. Broadband, Phone, NTL

I feel sorry for your situation, but saying you did not have time to read one ESB bill in 5 years!! Now that's another matter. Even written on the front page of the bills are the explanations of estimated etc and also how to submit a reading, all on the front of the bill.

{^Syntax^}

Sorry, let me rephrase that: I wasn't aware of the procedure of having to call in a meter reading. I mention the lack of time only to give a reason as to why I didn't realise the responsibility was mine to give a reading. I'm aware of this now. There was nothing on the bills for a long time about a meter reading being required so I just fell into the routine of looking at the sum and paying it.

Yes, the whole thing is very unfortunate but I'm sure we'll be able to come to an arrangement. I just think €350 to €550 seems unusually high for an average bill.

Tail Wagger

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

Sorry, let me rephrase that: I wasn't aware of the procedure of having to call in a meter reading. I mention the lack of time only to give a reason as to why I didn't realise the responsibility was mine to give a reading. I'm aware of this now. There was nothing on the bills for a long time about a meter reading being required so I just fell into the routine of looking at the sum and paying it.

Yes, the whole thing is very unfortunate but I'm sure we'll be able to come to an arrangement. I just think €350 to €550 seems unusually high for an average bill.

========================================================

Listen I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just the pro's and
con's. When you moved in you took on the E.S.B account in your name. When you received your bill you paid it, the bill would have said whether it was estimated or read. If you were not happy with the bill whether it was to high or to low, you should have contacted the E.S.B to readjust your reading. Each account after that you should have followed suit.

If the same problem happened in your Bank, ie a Lodgement you paid in did not show on your account, would you not bother to phone the bank to ask where your Lodgement went, same principal only the other way around. You can pay them in installments, Any way what were you running to make the bill that high?:cool:

{^Syntax^}

I take your point Tail Wagger but I was happy with the bills. They ranged between €120 and €200 which seemed pretty normal. It's just now they've all been re-estimated @ between €350 and €550.

The meter was read by the ESB in 2007 but the reading was never used to bill.

That's the strange thing.. I wasn't running anything out of the ordinary. Just normal household appliances. Cooker, TV, Laptops, Toaster.. etc.

Davy

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

The meter was read by the ESB in 2007 but the reading was never used to bill.

Maybe it wasn't used as they thought the reading took was a mistake. They saw to big a difference and thought the reader took it down wrong. Obviously couldn't say for certain, but its the only thing i can think of why it wasn't used

{^Syntax^}

It just means I would've had to pay €4k back then which would've been a shock but I could've divided it by 3 or 4. Would've been a very big shock but €1000 each would've been very different to €11,000 on my own now.

My partner was let go from part time work at Christmas and the friend that was living with me at the time is seperated and paying a mortgage for his family home where his ex lives with his two children. He's also now renting an apartment so I can hardly ask him for a few grand.

I've been told the reading wasn't used because the ESB decided it was a mistake as it was so out of sync....

Tail Wagger

Contact the E.S.B to meet up with some one of authrorityand ask them to explain what has happened and they will only be to glad to sort it out for you.
The only thing I can see is that you were paying estimated bills, and if your normal bill was running @ €350.00 per bill, you'd have to be living in the house for 5 years for it to amount to that much!

I doubt that the E.S.B would allow a mater to run that lenght of time unchecked!........ are you sure that the other houses along the block are not feeding off your supply, if not. I'd check to see if someone is squatting in the Attic.............:cool: