ESB - €11,000 as final bill?!

IrishTonyO

Tail Wagger wrote: »

Contact the E.S.B to meet up with some one of authrorityand ask them to explain what has happened and they will only be to glad to sort it out for you.
The only thing I can see is that you were paying estimated bills, and if your normal bill was running @ €350.00 per bill, you'd have to be living in the house for 15 years for it to amount to that much!

I doubt that the E.S.B would allow a mater to run that lenght of time unchecked!........ are you sure that the other houses along the block are not feeding off your supply, if not. I'd check to see if someone is squatting in the Attic.............:cool:

Nah a two monthly bill @ €350 would be €11,000 after 5 years and a few months

ttm

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

I've been told the reading wasn't used because the ESB decided it was a mistake as it was so out of sync....

So while it might not get you very far I'd argue that you only owed the bill back to the date of the correct reading as ESB did nothing as far as we know to check if the reading really was out of sync.

ttm

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Nah a two monthly bill @ €350 would be €11,000 after 5 years and a few months

Not exactly rocket science?

11k divided by (5x6) = approx 366euro each month

BUT then you have to ADD in the 120-200 euro the OP paid each charging period so we're then back up to approx 486 - 566euro each time which is more than double our bill for Washing Machine, Tumble Drier, Dish Washer, Oven, Microwave, occasional water heating, Fridge, two freezers, lights and at least 4 computers on all day, plus some stuff I'm sure I forgot.

IrishTonyO

Was the heating in the place electric?

{^Syntax^}

The place was Oil heated.

It's a very messy situation. For the first couple of weeks, when trying to close my account, I was told by at least 4 different people at the ESB they owed me €4000 as I had over paid.

kevin216

If only airtricity(save up to 13%) were out in 2004....it would have been less than 10,000 euro. :(:(
http://www.airtricity.com/

Tail Wagger

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Nah a two monthly bill @ €350 would be €11,000 after 5 years and a few months

My apologies I obviously I hit the 1 before the 5,
Thanks:cool:

foggy_lad

Tail Wagger wrote: »

The only thing I can see is that you were paying estimated bills, and if your normal bill was running @ €350.00 per bill, you'd have to be living in the house for 5 years for it to amount to that much!

if you had read the thread from the start you would see that this has been the case and not disputed by the op. and as for the €11,000 the op has also been paying between €120-200 every two months in addition to this huge end bill.

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

The place was Oil heated.

It's a very messy situation. For the first couple of weeks, when trying to close my account, I was told by at least 4 different people at the ESB they owed me €4000 as I had over paid.

but rather than pay out on what seemed a lot of money for the esb they then changed their story and now insist without proof that your meter "must have gone around the clock some time ago" while it is more probable considering the bi-monthly estimates between €120-200 you have been paying(an average household bill amount?) that the original result of them owing you €4000 is correct

Fnergg

foggy_lad wrote: »

".... while it is more probable considering the bi-monthly estimates between €120-200 you have been paying(an average household bill amount?) that the original result of them owing you €4000 is correct

Nonsense.

Apply some basic math:

Assume a bi-monthly average bill of €150.

That's €900 per year.

That's €4500 over 5 years.

If the ESB owed the OP €4000 that would mean his total usage for the 5 year period would have been €500 = €100 per year = €16.60 per bill.

Clearly wrong.

Regards,

Fnergg

eth0_

kevin216 wrote: »

If only airtricity(save up to 13%) were out in 2004....it would have been less than 10,000 euro. :(:(
http://www.airtricity.com/

Smartarse or shill - which are you? :mad:

ttm

Fnergg wrote: »

Nonsense.

Apply some basic math:

Assume a bi-monthly average bill of €150.

That's €900 per year.

That's €4500 over 5 years.

If the ESB owed the OP €4000 that would mean his total usage for the 5 year period would have been €500 = €100 per year = €16.60 per bill.

Clearly wrong.

Regards,

Fnergg

I think your maths is a bit too basic?

You haven't allowed for the electic meter going back around, anyway here's my reasoning, please point out any flaws.

I checked my meter (5 reading digits+2 red) and it can only measure about 19,000 euros worth of electicity usage before it goes around the clock, that would be 99999 (rounded up to 100000) times 14.1 cent per unit plus VAT at 13.5%.

Now we can't say for sure what the start reading was or if it was correct but we do know a meter will measure 19,000 euros worth of electic usage, we can be fairly sure the OP's figures of either owing 11,000 euros or being owed 4,000 euros are correct (why would he change that?). Finally we can't be sure of the actual amount the OP paid ESB but we can work out how much the OP has paid (at todays rates) from the figures we do have.

Amount paid by OP = x

x - 4,000 = 19,000 senario OP owed 4,000 x = 23,000

OR

x + 11,000 = 19,000 senario OP owes 11,000 x = 8,000

Therefore OP has paid either 23,000 euro at todays prices or 8,000 euro even allowing for price changes neither sound correct so I'm starting to wonder if the meter is wrong.

foggy_lad

Fnergg wrote: »

Nonsense.

Apply some basic math:

Assume a bi-monthly average bill of €150.

That's €900 per year.

That's €4500 over 5 years.

If the ESB owed the OP €4000 that would mean his total usage for the 5 year period would have been €500 = €100 per year = €16.60 per bill.

Clearly wrong.

Regards,

Fnergg

consider the payments already made to the esb by the op of say €200 x 6 x 5years = €6,000 which ads up to less than the average usage over the period!

so if the esb owed the op €4,000 this would leave them with usage for the 5 years amounting to €2,000 or €400 per year which when broken down further gives an average of just over €66 per bill allowing for higher winter and lower summer bills.

now consider the original meter reading was correct and the op has been very thrifty as many people are when living in rented accomodation and also they were not using electric heating and most of their hot water requirements would have come from their oil heating, it is VERY probably that the esb have made a very serious mistake here.

cee_jay

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

I've been told the reading wasn't used because the ESB decided it was a mistake as it was so out of sync....

What was that reading? If they had used this reading back then would you have had a massive bill like now? If it had been used what would your current bill stand at?

ttm

cAr0l wrote: »

What was that reading? If they had used this reading back then would you have had a massive bill like now? If it had been used what would your current bill stand at?

That's a very good point.

So if the OP was to add his estimated units used to that reading and they come somewhere near his final reading then that would throw some doubt on the orignal reading.

Sorry cAr0l I'm probably just rephrasing your post in a slightly different way.

{^Syntax^}

Thanks for the reply Carol. If they had used the reading in 2007 which was taken by an ESB Meter Reader, the bill at the time would've been €4000, which I could've split between my 3 or 4 house mates.

The Estate Agent called in 31290 when I moved in, in early 2005 and the Meter Reader took 71109 in 2007. When I moved out I called in 23211.

Does this sound normal in terms of usage?

To answer your question Carol, no, if the ESB had used the reading in 2007 I would not have the €11,000 bill now.

Pythia

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

To answer your question Carol, no, if the ESB had used the reading in 2007 I would not have the €11,000 bill now.

Well I think what she means is would the bill have been perhaps 7000 (i.e. 11 - 4)?

{^Syntax^}

Well this bill probably would've been a lot less in the end because I would've been issued with a bill for €4000 in 2007 - I would've reacted by contacting the ESB to find out why the bill was so high and called the land lord to get an electrician in to examine the meter to make sure the electrics in the house were alright.

Because the bill following the ESB Meter Reader's visit was no different to my average bill, I assumed everything was okay. I think anyone else would've assumed the same.

I can't get an electrician in now as the house is undergoing a full renovation and I moved out in January.

ttm

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

Well this bill probably would've been a lot less in the end because I would've been issued with a bill for €4000 in 2007 - I would've reacted by contacting the ESB to find out why the bill was so high and called the land lord to get an electrician in to examine the meter to make sure the electrics in the house were alright.

Because the bill following the ESB Meter Reader's visit was no different to my average bill, I assumed everything was okay. I think anyone else would've assumed the same.

I can't get an electrician in now as the house is undergoing a full renovation and I moved out in January.

I think you are right there, a guy reads the meter and you get a bill thats just like all the rest; do you start looking for a C or E next to the reading on the bill if you even knew what they ment in the first place?

testicle

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

Well this bill probably would've been a lot less in the end because I would've been issued with a bill for €4000 in 2007 - I would've reacted by contacting the ESB to find out why the bill was so high and called the land lord to get an electrician in to examine the meter to make sure the electrics in the house were alright.

Because the bill following the ESB Meter Reader's visit was no different to my average bill, I assumed everything was okay. I think anyone else would've assumed the same.

I can't get an electrician in now as the house is undergoing a full renovation and I moved out in January.

Given the house is rented, and if the problem is traced back to faulty wiring etc in the house, I would be of the opinion that your landlord would be responsible for the bill.

{^Syntax^}

testicle wrote: »

Given the house is rented, and if the problem is traced back to faulty wiring etc in the house, I would be of the opinion that your landlord would be responsible for the bill.

I think that'd be very messy. The landlord could argue that they weren't aware of any electrical flaw and if they were they would've done something to rectify.

The bill for €4000 in 2007 would've been good enough reason to have the wiring looked at! That really should have been double checked.

{^Syntax^}

ttm wrote: »

I think you are right there, a guy reads the meter and you get a bill thats just like all the rest; do you start looking for a C or E next to the reading on the bill if you even knew what they ment in the first place?

I didn't know what a C or E was until this month. I just thought I was paying my bill like I always had. I remember getting home one day and I was told by a house mate that the ESB had been over.

When I got the next bill it was around about the same as it always was so I just paid it and didn't give it a second thought...

cee_jay

Would the ESB not have some part responsibility then for the bill?
They got a meter reading that was abnormally high for some reason or another. They never used this reading, or obtained another meter reading to double check that it was correct or not.
I didn't phrase my question above very well - but what I am trying to say is would this meter reading that they didn't use point to an inaccurate reading by the EA? Has usage been pretty much standard since if you took this meter reading? (ie what would your final bill be now if you take into consideration this reading?).

Fnergg

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

..The Estate Agent called in 31290 when I moved in, in early 2005 and the Meter Reader took 71109 in 2007. When I moved out I called in 23211...

The reading of 71109 in 2007 definitely shows the reading to have clocked over the 99999 mark at a later date.

Assuming the reading of 71109 was taken mid way in 2007: that would give a daily average consumption for the 2.5 year period Jan 05 to June 07 of 44 units.

Likewise, the average daily consumption for the period June 07 to Jan 10 was 57 units.

The average daily usage for the 5 year period was 50 units.

Definitely high. Possibly contributed to by an electrical problem (as I've suggested previously) - although to have such a consistent high consumption would suggest that it was just plain old high consumption of electricity. There were, after all, 4 adults in occupation.

I checked my last ESB bill. It is very clear if the reading is real or estimated. A utility bill - be it gas, phone or electricty - is meant to be checked for accuracy, especially gas or electricity where estimated readings are a feature. It's not like Sky, Chorus et al where the charges are fixed.

I don't think pleading ignorance of same will cut much ice with the ESB. After all, there is an old legal maxim "ignorantia juris non excusat"- "ignorance of the law is no excuse". Ignorance of how to read an electricity bill is no excuse either.

Regards,

Fnergg

dudara

ttm wrote: »

I think you are right there, a guy reads the meter and you get a bill thats just like all the rest; do you start looking for a C or E next to the reading on the bill if you even knew what they ment in the first place?

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

I didn't know what a C or E was until this month. I just thought I was paying my bill like I always had.

The meaning of the "C" and "E" symbols are clearly printed on the bill. I hate to say it, and I do feel sorry for you in this one, but all the evidence was there in front of you over the years.

{^Syntax^}

Valid points Dudara and Fnergg and I appreciate all the advice everyone has given thus far. I'll have to pay it back if it's accurate but it'll have to be a very extended period given my current situation.

I just wish the reading taken in 2007 had been used to correct the bill and it hadn't built up to €11,000.

Still, it could be worse I guess... I could've been there for another 5 years and got a closing bill for €30,000 +

wyrn

Aside from the OP not checking if the reading was a C or E - is there not some onus on the ESB to double check their reading?

I would have thought that there was some rules/guidelines for them when it comes to calculating the bill using a reading taken from an ESB reader. I mean to disregard a reading because it seems implausible is very worrying. They should have called up the customer to verify the number or at least make an appointment to double check the reading.

OP you have my sympathies, it is a horrible situation to be left in especially since you are the only remaining housemate. Good luck, I hope you can find a good resolution.

IrishTonyO

Yeah good luck OP, let us know what happens in the end

{^Syntax^}

I have setup a blog for my experience in the hopes it'll prevent others from falling into the same trap. Hopefully it'll also generate some revenue to help me pay the €11,000 if it turns out I have to!

The URL is www.evilsb.com and any donations are welcome! I'm trying to get google adsense installed also so when that's up and running maybe you could click on some ads for me.

{^Syntax^}

cAr0l wrote: »

Would the ESB not have some part responsibility then for the bill?
They got a meter reading that was abnormally high for some reason or another. They never used this reading, or obtained another meter reading to double check that it was correct or not.
I didn't phrase my question above very well - but what I am trying to say is would this meter reading that they didn't use point to an inaccurate reading by the EA? Has usage been pretty much standard since if you took this meter reading? (ie what would your final bill be now if you take into consideration this reading?).

Carol, it wasn't double checked by the ESB and I never gave it a second thought. The final bill would be €0 now as I would've split the €4000 (result of the meter reading in 2007) between 3 or 4 house mates if it turned out to be accurate.

A flag would've been raised as to the abnormally high useage and I would've worked with the ESB and/or electrician to determine the cause.

Victor

I would try to do an inspection of the meter with the ESB and see if it still spinning when everything else is turned off.

If the property was in a bad state and contributed to the bill, then I wonder if the landlord has some responsibility.

I think the ESB might also have some responsibility with the 2007 meter reading and I wonder if they would be willing to do a deal on that.