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ESB - €11,000 as final bill?!

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    #152
    IrishTonyO
    Registered Users Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    Heroditas wrote: »
    This is certainly a colossal load.
    It's the equivalent of having a kettle boiling 24/7 ...... or the immersion constantly left on.
    I'd find it hard to justify that number of units even with 4 people in the house.
    There would have to be TVs on in every room and a load 50W spot lights used to light up the place. Even then, it's a very large load.

    For something like that, it screams faulty immersion to me!

    Plus faulty immersion is not the ESB's problem. But even though the bill is high it is not impossible, like you say if the immersion is kept on all the time and 4 people having showers/baths etyc, that alone would clock up a large bill.


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    #153
    Sharlovesjohn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 216 ✭✭Sharlovesjohn


    Wow I feel so sorry for OP that is alot of money!
    I only pay 20-40 quid for two months on Airticity for a 2 bed house it has storage heaters and all I think I may want to get a reading done fairly soon so!


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    #154
    IrishTonyO
    Registered Users Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    Sharlovesjohn wrote: »
    Wow I feel so sorry for OP that is alot of money!
    I only pay 20-40 quid for two months on Airticity for a 2 bed house it has storage heaters and all I think I may want to get a reading done fairly soon so!
    €20 would about cover the standing charge for 2 months I would read your meter immediately and check your bills


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    #155
    Heroditas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,505 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    Plus faulty immersion is not the ESB's problem. But even though the bill is high it is not impossible, like you say if the immersion is kept on all the time and 4 people having showers/baths etyc, that alone would clock up a large bill.

    Exactly.
    Essentially it's the resident's responsibility to ensure the meter is working properly and that regular meter reads of some type are submitted.
    What happens to the wires after the meter is the occupier's responsibility.


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    #156
    {^Syntax^}
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭{^Syntax^}


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    €20 would about cover the standing charge for 2 months I would read your meter immediately and check your bills

    I second that - Call in a reading ASAP.


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    #157
    Sharlovesjohn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 216 ✭✭Sharlovesjohn


    Its ok I wont end up like yourself I only moved in a couple of months ago but at least I wont hold off getting readings in

    Just to add I switch from ESB when we moved in we were only in two weeks and I phoned up giving a meter reading I also have a letter confirming this from ESB ( bill was 60 euros how crazy is that!) yet they Still send out their staff to take reading? Maybe its not ESB staff at all :) Airticity are so much nicer etc and defo cheaper


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    #158
    wyrn
    Registered Users Posts: 6,978 ✭✭✭wyrn


    Heroditas wrote: »
    Exactly.
    Essentially it's the resident's responsibility to ensure the meter is working properly and that regular meter reads of some type are submitted.
    What happens to the wires after the meter is the occupier's responsibility.

    True.


    But also the ESB has some responsibility to double check the reading they took in 2007 - they cannot simply ignore it because it's out of whack.

    I'm sure there's been a good few hefty bills in Ireland over the years due to faulty wiring, rodents chomping on the wires and faulty immersions etc... So if an odd reading did pop up that they could have made a call or sent a letter asking the owner to recheck the value.


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    #159
    Axwell
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    Have been checking in on this thread over the last while, came on today and read the last few posts only to read the bit about the website. I find it ridiculous to be honest that you would setup a website looking for donations, in fact to even set it up at all. You have turned what was a serious issue into a joke imo by setting that site up and gone from people having pity on you over the situation to doubting your credibility and making a site that looks like a scam.

    You have a full investigation underway with the ESB yet you instantly set this site up and call it evilsb even though you claim that its in no way to flame or slander the esb. Also if the house was mouldy as you show in your pictures why stay there for a number of years and put up with the conditions? Whatever pity I had on you over the whole situation is dwindling away after seeing that website of yours and the paypal donation option.


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    #160
    {^Syntax^}
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭{^Syntax^}


    Axwell wrote: »
    Have been checking in on this thread over the last while, came on today and read the last few posts only to read the bit about the website. I find it ridiculous to be honest that you would setup a website looking for donations, in fact to even set it up at all. You have turned what was a serious issue into a joke imo by setting that site up and gone from people having pity on you over the situation to doubting your credibility and making a site that looks like a scam.

    You have a full investigation underway with the ESB yet you instantly set this site up and call it evilsb even though you claim that its in no way to flame or slander the esb. Also if the house was mouldy as you show in your pictures why stay there for a number of years and put up with the conditions? Whatever pity I had on you over the whole situation is dwindling away after seeing that website of yours and the paypal donation option.

    Regardless of my actions and certain peoples perception of me and my panic to generate revenue in what I consider to be a very serious and daunting situation, it's still a very real situation and could happen to other people.

    The investigation has been completed and I will be updating the site to reflect the outcome of it soon.

    I'm just panicing.. Maybe I'm going about it the wrong way but if people visited the blog and clicked on adverts it might help. How would feel if you were in my situation?


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    #161
    Axwell
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    {^Syntax^} wrote: »

    The investigation has been completed and I will be updating the site to reflect the outcome of it soon.

    Well what did the investigation find?

    If you wanted to keep the focus of the topic on the issue at hand then you really shouldnt have made the website to begin with.

    Until you have the full feedback from the investigation there isnt much you can do. You may or may not have to pay that amount, if its down to faulty equipment etc then its obviously not your fault.

    Im still curious why you would live in a house thats full of mould also. I cant see it turning out that you used that much and it has to be down to a faulty meter. Did you enquire how it went from you being owed €4000 to owing them €11,000. What were they basing the €4000 on in the first place, they must have had some information to come up with that figure.


    Also I believe at one point in the thread I read that your meter doesnt have the extra digits at the end (the ones in red i think) which would suggest your meter is old. Have you spoke to the landlord about it and what did he say?


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    #162
    {^Syntax^}
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭{^Syntax^}


    Axwell wrote: »
    Well what did the investigation find?

    If you wanted to keep the focus of the topic on the issue at hand then you really shouldnt have made the website to begin with.

    Until you have the full feedback from the investigation there isnt much you can do. You may or may not have to pay that amount, if its down to faulty equipment etc then its obviously not your fault.

    Im still curious why you would live in a house thats full of mould also. Considering your ESB bill would suggest you have heating on all the time you would wonder why there is any damp at all. I cant see it turning out that you used that much and it has to be down to a faulty meter. Did you enquire how it went from you being owed €4000 to owing them €11,000. What were they basing the €4000 on in the first place, they must have had some information to come up with that figure.

    All of these questions are answered on the thread and on my blog. I had a reading of 23211 when I left and the ESB had something like 52325.. Their reading was higher than mine therefore they owed me money. But it emerged that the meter had rolled over from the original reading in 2005 of 31290, rolling over from 99999 back to 23211...

    The investigation has shown that the meter is correct. The ESB has very kindly offered to take a €3000 off the bill for their error of not issuing a bill in 2007 following the official ESB Engineer meter reading. This means I now owe them €8000.

    They are holding firm with that. I have no way of checking the electrics in the old house so what can I do but pay it? Still, I am grateful for the deduction and for how helpful they have been in trying to come to a workable arrangement.


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    #163
    ch750536
    Registered Users Posts: 3,736 ✭✭✭ch750536


    Offer to pay them €5000 now in full or agree to pay €50 a month. If they take the €5000 go get a personal loan and be happy with paying it.

    If it is something on your property and it was ignored then it is your fault.

    I always check all bills, bank statements, receipts etc, its down to you in the end.


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    #164
    IrishTonyO
    Registered Users Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    I reckon you should remove your website as well as the reading is correct and they have just given you over 27% reduction. I wouldn't have minded a 27% reduction in my bill for the last 5 years


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    #165
    Axwell
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    Based on what you said above your original meter reading in 2005 was 31290 and has gone the whole way round to 23211..lets call it 123211 for handiness. This works out at 91921 units used. I have a bill here from a few months ago where there was 1000 units used in a 2 month period and after vat and the different domestic rates the bill came to €200 which is the average bill we had at the time.

    91,921/1000 = 91.9 * €200 = €18,380

    I know their are different domestic rates but they dont make a huge difference overall. Based on the figures above that would be approximately €18,000 - they billed you for €11,000, still seems like a huge difference to me in the numbers.

    Bases on my average bill for 2 months being €200 for 1000 units, that would be €1200 per year. For 5 years that would come to €6000.

    Seems no matter what way you look at it there is a large discrepancy somewhere. What was your average bill in the house every 2 months when estimated?


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    #166
    {^Syntax^}
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭{^Syntax^}


    Axwell wrote: »
    Based on what you said above your original meter reading in 2005 was 31290 and has gone the whole way round to 23211..lets call it 123211 for handiness. This works out at 91921 units used. I have a bill here from a few months ago where there was 1000 units used in a 2 month period and after vat and the different domestic rates the bill came to €200 which is the average bill we had at the time.

    91,921/1000 = 91.9 * €200 = €18,380

    I know their are different domestic rates but they dont make a huge difference overall. Based on the figures above that would be approximately €18,000 - they billed you for €11,000, still seems like a huge difference to me in the numbers.

    Bases on my average bill for 2 months being €200 for 1000 units, that would be €1200 per year. For 5 years that would come to €6000.

    Seems no matter what way you look at it there is a large discrepancy somewhere. What was your average bill in the house every 2 months when estimated?

    Average bill was between €120 and €200 every two months.


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    #167
    Axwell
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    {^Syntax^} wrote: »
    Average bill was between €120 and €200 every two months.

    Well €200 *6 = €1200 a year * 5 years = €6000
    They are telling you according to the readings you owe €11,000. Thats almost twice the amount of electricity used, I really dont see how you would use that amount of electricity based on normal usage in a house.


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    #168
    jimoc
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭jimoc


    We've got a house with granny flat built on, house is 3 bedroom, flat is 2 bedroom.
    Both use seperate oil fired heating, no electrical emmersions in either building, one electric shower.
    Both residences are occupied 24 hours a day.
    The past year we've spend 1750 euro on electricity.
    so over 5 years that would be 8750.

    Now if ESB are saying the OP has used 11000 more electricity then they have paid far that sounds as if either something is really wrong with the supply or there is some serious energy usage going on.


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    #169
    Axwell
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    Exactly, if you have been paying your estimated bills then you have paid at minimum €120 every 2 months as you said yourself so how on top of that you could owe €11,000, itseems madness. If you never paid any bills in all that time you would owe a lot of money alright, still probably not 11,000 but you paid your bills so this figure of 11,000 just doesnt add up. They are basing this on the meter reading itself and the numbers on it but without a proper electrical inspection you wont know if their is something using up huge amounts of electricity which is causing the high readings on the meter. While the meter reading is probably correct, in the sense the numbers on it and the fact it has gone full circle, the usage however doesnt seem right.
    At this point you should be talking to the landlord and trying to find out if there is something wrong in the wiring or the appliances etc in the house. Was their an immersion in the house that could be faulty or something? Is there only one property connected to the meter. Something seems wrong somewhere and your going to have to investigate it further otherwise the ESB will be looking for their money because as far as they are concerned the readings are right and you used the electricity.


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    #170
    starfish12
    Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭starfish12


    I see you havent updated your website to state that they have reduced your bill by 27%......


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    #171
    The \/\/anderer
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭The \/\/anderer


    I agree with previous posters. Something is not quiet right.
    I live in an old badly insulated house with four other adults. Electric cooker - we all cook seperatley. There are 2 en-suites in the house with 2 electric showers, and the rest of us in the house use the immersion for our hot water. Although we have oil central heating, we all have electric heaters in our rooms too. The washing machine, dryer and dishwasher are used alot too.
    So we use a good bit of electricity!

    The largest bill we've had in the last 3 years is just over €400 for 2 months. This was for December and January just gone, which has been the coldest winter in a good while. However, our average bill would be less than €300.

    So in your case, 4 adults, we could say the bill would be around €300 MAX.
    €300 x 6 x 5 = €9000 over 5 years. And the ESB are basically charging you around €15000 for 5 years?

    Defo something wrong somewhere.


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    #172
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Have you got anyone to check if there are wires going elsewhere? Neighbours house, etc?


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    #173
    {^Syntax^}
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭{^Syntax^}


    starfish12 wrote: »
    I see you havent updated your website to state that they have reduced your bill by 27%......

    I'm in work..


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    #174
    ztoical
    Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    {^Syntax^} wrote: »
    I'm in work..

    yet have time to post on boards....how are you able to get away with that at work yet not update your blog?

    also not sure how impressed boards.ie is going to be with you linking to them as your "forum"


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    #175
    {^Syntax^}
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭{^Syntax^}


    ztoical wrote: »
    yet have time to post on boards....how are you able to get away with that at work yet not update your blog?

    also not sure how impressed boards.ie is going to be with you linking to them as your "forum"

    Posting to a forum is a bit easter than editing PHP / HTML.

    Lads,

    Why am I being flamed here? Cause I stuck a donate button on my blog? Wasn't there a woman a few years back that put a donate on her blog to help pay her €50,000 credit card bill and it was actually paid and then some. The button is gone.

    I got approval from a boards.ie moderator to link back to here before I linked. If they asked me to remove the link, I would.

    The only people that are aware of my blog are the viewers of this thread.

    This could happen to any of you. I only posted to this forum to get some advice and publish my experience of a very daunting situation and hopefully educate those who may find themselves in similar circumstances.

    The ESB are not monsters and I've said from the start they are being very helpful. I'll update the blog to reflect same soon.


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    #176
    {^Syntax^}
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭{^Syntax^}


    the_syco wrote: »
    Have you got anyone to check if there are wires going elsewhere? Neighbours house, etc?

    I had a look at the meter myself when I was there and it doesn't appear there are wires going anywhere outside of the house. I'm not sure how Electrical Cables are run (presumably under the ground?) but it didn't seem odd to me in terms of wiring. Then again I'm not an electrician. I haven't had anyone other than the ESB check the meter and they said it's working fine.


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    #177
    ztoical
    Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    {^Syntax^} wrote: »
    Posting to a forum is a bit easter than editing PHP / HTML.

    To add a quick update saying they've reduced the bill by X% is not a major coding issue and frankly if your going to run a blog about this issue your priority should be to update that first rather then a message board.

    {^Syntax^} wrote: »
    This could happen to any of you. I only posted to this forum to get some advice and publish my experience of a very daunting situation and hopefully educate those who may find themselves in similar circumstances.

    The ESB are not monsters and I've said from the start they are being very helpful. I'll update the blog to reflect same soon.

    The chances of this happening to people is pretty slim given that modern meters are normally in easier to read places so the ESB can access them without you having to be home. You said yourself the ESB tired to do readings but couldn't get at the meter...it was up to you then to send them a reading rather then having estimated bills for 5 years. The bills clearly stated they were estimates and you can phone in a reading or do it online so they have made it very easy. You also didn't check the reading done by the estate agent when you moved in, again your own mistake not the ESB. You ask why are you being flamed...because you've been very foolish and frankly there is something very odd about this whole thread and your actions with this website. The woman with the credit card bill honestly admitted she messed up and got herself in debt and was using the net to help get herself out....do I think that was right no, but much like the man begging on the corner who tells me he will spend any money he gets on drink and drugs I at least appreciate their honesty. In this case it seems to change...you didn't use the power and it was a mess up by the ESB yet are looking to raise funds to pay for it regardless or the wrong reading was given or you did use but it's cus the house is old and full of mold.

    your website states it is "a system that relies on the consumer to actively monitor a meter" I'm sorry but what's wrong with that? Your using it so you should keep an eye on it.


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    #178
    {^Syntax^}
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭{^Syntax^}


    The \/\/anderer wrote: »
    I agree with previous posters. Something is not quiet right.
    I live in an old badly insulated house with four other adults. Electric cooker - we all cook seperatley. There are 2 en-suites in the house with 2 electric showers, and the rest of us in the house use the immersion for our hot water. Although we have oil central heating, we all have electric heaters in our rooms too. The washing machine, dryer and dishwasher are used alot too.
    So we use a good bit of electricity!

    The largest bill we've had in the last 3 years is just over €400 for 2 months. This was for December and January just gone, which has been the coldest winter in a good while. However, our average bill would be less than €300.

    So in your case, 4 adults, we could say the bill would be around €300 MAX.
    €300 x 6 x 5 = €9000 over 5 years. And the ESB are basically charging you around €15000 for 5 years?

    Defo something wrong somewhere.

    I have been told that electrical heaters consume a lot of electricity and are a big no no! We did have one in the upstairs bedroom as the in there was always air locked and we couldn't fix it. There was an immersion yes.

    It's strange that your average bill was around €300 as onmy final bill the invoices ranged between €300 and €525 - €300 being at the lower end of the scale.


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    #179
    {^Syntax^}
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭{^Syntax^}


    ztoical wrote: »
    To add a quick update saying they've reduced the bill by X% is not a major coding issue and frankly if your going to run a blog about this issue your priority should be to update that first rather then a message board.

    Working on it now.
    ztoical wrote: »
    The chances of this happening to people is pretty slim given that modern meters are normally in easier to read places so the ESB can access them without you having to be home.

    There are still a lot of old houses out there. Has half of Ireland been upgraded to new meters over the last 10 years?
    ztoical wrote: »
    You said yourself the ESB tired to do readings but couldn't get at the meter...it was up to you then to send them a reading rather then having estimated bills for 5 years.

    I've already answered this.
    ztoical wrote: »
    The bills clearly stated they were estimates and you can phone in a reading or do it online so they have made it very easy. You also didn't check the reading done by the estate agent when you moved in, again your own mistake not the ESB.

    I'm not flaming the ESB. Read previous posts.
    ztoical wrote: »
    You ask why are you being flamed...because you've been very foolish and frankly there is something very odd about this whole thread and your actions with this website.

    So it's okay for me to publicly discuss the issue on boards.ie but not on my own blog?
    ztoical wrote: »
    The woman with the credit card bill honestly admitted she messed up and got herself in debt and was using the net to help get herself out....do I think that was right no, but much like the man begging on the corner who tells me he will spend any money he gets on drink and drugs I at least appreciate their honesty. In this case it seems to change...you didn't use the power and it was a mess up by the ESB yet are looking to raise funds to pay for it regardless or the wrong reading was given or you did use but it's cus the house is old and full of mold.

    Have you ever paid €15,000 for five years of electricity in your home? That's €500 per bill. 6 * 5 = 30 & €15,000 / 30 = €500. For 3 to 4 people? Wouldn't you try to draw some conclusions? Mold? Electrical faults? Rats?
    ztoical wrote: »
    your website states it is "a system that relies on the consumer to actively monitor a meter" I'm sorry but what's wrong with that? Your using it so you should keep an eye on it.

    Read past posts.


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    #180
    ztoical
    Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    {^Syntax^} wrote: »
    So it's okay for me to publicly discuss the issue on boards.ie but not on my own blog?

    Nope your free to express yourself however you wish but you can't then complain on people questioning said actions.


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    #181
    {^Syntax^}
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭{^Syntax^}


    ztoical wrote: »
    Nope your free to express yourself however you wish but you can't then complain on people questioning said actions.

    Oh, you noble Stoics :o


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