Israeli apartheid

Irlandese

I would like to interject, if I may, along the same lines as a recent post I made on another forum about Israel. The reason is because I feel I have learned something recently, that changed my perspective a lot on this subject, which has occupied more than a little of my time and interest, since I became involved in Medical Aid for Palestine in the early eighties and in various campaigns for palestinian rights since that time. I also spend a lot of time researching related issues, especially about Zionism.

Recently, I made friends with an active Israeli Army reservist who regularly returns into uniform to defend his country and to work in the West Bank and Gaza Strip with Israeli Security. I expected to be appalled by his views. Nothing could be further from the truth. I met a sincere, humane, decent family man with similar values to my own. I met a man who supports the twin nation solution and equal rights for all in both states. I met someone with similar views to me about the lunatic fringe of settlers and their crazy backers in New York and elsewhere, who push for ever more settlemsnts in East Jerusalem and elsewhere. He informed me too about the strong negative feelings within Israel about the parasitic orthodox jews who do no work and live off the state, rearing large families and voting for far-right extremist zionists, intent to continue the anti-palestinian policies of prostitutes like netayahu.
In short, I was forced to re-evaluate a lot of my previous over-simple and what I now recognise to be wrong beliefs. Too often, also here, I have argued strongly against the Israeli position, without realising that many Israelis think like me but are too frightened by continuing attacks to lower their guard and begin the difficult but ultimately necessary process of normalisation.
We do no good for palestinians or Israelis if we adopt simplistic analeses of this complex conflict. We do palestinians no favours if we doggedly support aggressive pro-hamas or pro-fatah stands, without first checking to see if the security and rights of Israelis are also protected in any suggested interventions.
Too often, reading here, I am reminded of the many times in my work abroad how people have slapped me on the back and expressed support for IRA freedom fighters and nationalists in Northern Ireland. I have the feeling that many who blindly support anti-Israeli rhetoric are falling into the same trap. I have often spent time explaining how the IRA of today are not like the IRA of 1916-1922 but a sick gang of drug-selling, sadistic gangsters, much like the Italian Mafia, but with much better PR. (Yes, I worked on cross-border stuff before I left for fields afar- so speak from first-hand experience).
How I am sorry now that I was not as aware or diligent in my many arguaments in favour of Palestinian rights, without addressing legitimate Israeli rights to security in what, for good or ill, is now the home of the many generations of young secular humanist Israelis who live there and love their homeland as much as they share the same humane principles as I hope I do.

So, as I admit my past failings, I ask that people think here, careflly, before jumping on bandwagons and try to see how we can move our understanding forward, both defending the rights of palestinians who deserve same very much and also respecting the right of right-minded Israelis to live in peace and security, in parnershipwith their palestinian neighbours.
They cannot grant full rights to those who may be carrying suicide bombs to explode in their children's classrooms. I would do as they do, if the same situation prevailed here.
I too would kill any person who tried to hurt my family in that way.
That is why we need to be more balanced and delicate in our contributions and try to give the same support to the Israeli Peace Movement as we do to the Palestinian movements.
I have many palestinian friends who think as my new Israeli friends. Both groups are far more tolerant and constructive than many of the contributors here seem to be, judging from some of the posts. If I am wronging anyone in this, I apologise and ask your forgiveness and support, brothers and sisters.

wes

Irlandese wrote: »

They cannot grant full rights to those who may be carrying suicide bombs to explode in their children's classrooms. I would do as they do, if the same situation prevailed here.

There is no excuse for not granting Palestinians rights. The reason the Palestinian engage in violence is due to denial of rights. Supporting denial of there rights, perpetuates violence.

Also, Israel generally screams security as a excuses to steal land. How exactly is taking more land make Israel safer? It hard to believe there security claims are legitimate, when they use security claims to steal more land, and seeing as it is a conflict over land, there activity perpetuates violence.

Also, Why should the Palestinains then grant any rights to colonists or members of the IDF, who regularly kill innocent Palestinains (they even bomb schools and use Human shields), albeit with better weaponary?!? Sorry, IMHO the IDF are not better than Hamas terrorists.

**EDIT**
Just to add, I do agree with some of the other stuff you say above, but I think the denial of rights to Palestinians only make things worse, and Israel less secure.
**END EDIT**

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

I actually don't understand what point you are so laboriously trying to make !

I'm asking you a question, based on what you stated -

Sounds a bit like Cromwell in Ireland doesnt it ?
Of course we at some point decided that having three green fileds was an option we could live with and accepted the Fourth green field had to stay under the rule of the Brits ! Guess that is why ireland desoite the recession is still not a third world country. And we even changed our constitution to reflect the reality of life.

What are the "three green fields" that the Palestinians have?

anymore wrote: »

P.S for once it is my turn to ask a question you have ignored: are you the same Nodin who posts on P.ie ?

I fail to see the relevance, however I post under the same name everywhere.

TheDreamer

wes wrote: »

There is no excuse for not granting Palestinians rights. The reason the Palestinian engage in violence is due to denial of rights. Supporting denial of there rights, perpetuates violence.

Hi Wes,
I hope you don't mind me barging in on this discussion. It's my first post here so be nice
I wanted to share with you some information on the terrorist activity carried out by Palestinians (the Arab residents of Israel, the WB and Gaza) against Jews/Israel before 1967 - meaning, before Israel occupied the WB and Gaza Strip (which makes the "denial of rights" claim irrelevant).

First nationalistic murder of a Jew by Palestinians on the land of Israel – 1851

Early 1920’s – Sheik Az Al Din El Kassam was considered to be the first to lead violent activity against the Jews and the British rule.
The first terrorist activity against Jews by Palestinians took place during 1920 (6 Jews murdered) and in 1921 (43 Jews murdered).

The terror activity included:

1. penetrations to Jewish towns and neighborhoods and murdering of their residents
2. Ambushes and shootings
3. Burning crops and fields of Jews

1929 – 113 Jews murdered, 339 wounded in several attack. One of these attacks was the Hebron Massacre which wiped out the Jewish community of Hebron.

1936 – 1939 Riots and attacks of Jewish communities and British rule. Resulted in the killing of 400 Jews and 200 British.

1940’s – The Palestinians co-operate with the Nazis against the British and the Jewish communities. Haj Amin El Husseini commanded a Muslim SS unit in the Balkans. There was a plan to poison the waters of the Tel Aviv Jews.

1947 – The Arabs open a guerrilla war after the UN proposed the Partition Plan.

1949 – Fadayun attacks started right after the Israeli Independence War ended, mainly on the borders with the West Bank and Gaza and were carried out mostly by Palestinian refugees who fled Israel in 1948. (The Fadayun attack were on of the main causes of the Sinai War.)

1959 - Yasser Arafat forms the Fatah.

1964 - The PLO was formed.

1.1.1965 – Fatah carried out their first terror attack against Israel

1966 – Terrorist from the Jordanian West Bank plant bombs near Jewish homes in Jerusalem.

Nodin

TheDreamer wrote: »

Hi Wes,
I hope you don't mind me barging in on this discussion. It's my first post here so be nice
I wanted to share with you some information on the terrorist activity carried out by Palestinians (the Arab residents of Israel, the WB and Gaza) against Jews/Israel before 1967 - meaning, before Israel occupied the WB and Gaza Strip (which makes the "denial of rights" claim irrelevant).

A list of historical incidents devoid of context. Great stuff. And of course a list that contains no similar activities carried out by the other side.

wes

TheDreamer wrote: »

Hi Wes,
I hope you don't mind me barging in on this discussion. It's my first post here so be nice
I wanted to share with you some information on the terrorist activity carried out by Palestinians (the Arab residents of Israel, the WB and Gaza) against Jews/Israel before 1967 - meaning, before Israel occupied the WB and Gaza Strip (which makes the "denial of rights" claim irrelevant).

I could easily come up with a similar list to yours, if I was bothered, with incidents following along a similar time line. I could also point out that Zionists came to Palestine with the express intention of creating a state against the wishes of the pre-existing indigenous populace and ethnically cleanse them, which was always going to result in violence. i could also talk about the Iron wall which Zionists came up with in the 1920's, where they decided to use over whelming violence to solve there problems, but the history doesn't matter in the context of the current topic.

What matters is what is happening right now, which is Apartheid plain and simple. Israel is occupying the Palestinians, stealing there land, denying them equal rights, half starving them in some cases, and other abuses. When, you do these things there will be violence, and there is simply no excuse for them, in much the same way there is no excuses for militant Palestinains groups in Gaza targetting Israeli civilians. When, either side attack innocent civilians its wrong, but Israel gets a free pass for some bizare reason for the crap the pull, even when they murder 100s more civilians than the other guy.

TheDreamer

Nodin wrote: »

A list of historical incidents devoid of context. Great stuff. And of course a list that contains no similar activities carried out by the other side.

I was trying to show that Palestinian terrorism did not start as a result of the occupation, but rather was there before Israel even existed. The post was very relevant to the statement made by Wes.

wes

TheDreamer wrote: »

I was trying to show that Palestinian terrorism did not start as a result of the occupation, but rather was there before Israel even existed. The post was very relevant to the statement made by Wes.

So what is Israel didn't exist at the time. Zionists wanted to create there own state against the wishes of pre-exisiting indigenous majority. Native peoples have always resisted colonization. Of course, they were violent. People invaded there country to steal there homes and drive them out. That always leads to violence.

**EDIT**
Also, the history doesn't really matter in the context of the thread. What matters is that Apartheid exists in the here and now, and there is no excuse for denying people equal rights. Israel is simply racist towards Palestinians, in the same way that the White Supermacists of South Africa, were racist to Black people there.
**END EDIT**

Nodin

TheDreamer wrote: »

I was trying to show that Palestinian terrorism did not start as a result of the occupation, but rather was there before Israel even existed. The post was very relevant to the statement made by Wes.

You've thrown in a list that spans over a hundred years, with no context whatsoever, with the underlying presumption that theres a direct correspondence between 1920 and todays "Palestinian terrorism" in terms of cause, goals and ideology, ignoring changing conditions, social development....its nonsensical, really.

anymore

Nodin wrote: »

You've thrown in a list that spans over a hundred years, with no context whatsoever, with the underlying presumption that theres a direct correspondence between 1920 and todays "Palestinian terrorism" in terms of cause, goals and ideology, ignoring changing conditions, social development....its nonsensical, really.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222–230.
I suspect quote this may be appropriate here Nodin !
You are of course free to create your own context here and use as much detail and as space as you wish. I note that over the past fifty years Israel has to react to the changing conditions and development of palestinian terrorism and change it's defence policies to meet the new challenges. The new challenge now incorporates a fundamentalist religious religious element which has links accross the globe and which incorporates such bizarre notions as the idea that suicide bombers will be greeted by 70 or so virgins after their acts of mass murder.

It is good to see a new face in this debate and by the sounds of it a very knowledgable one at that. Facts are a precious commodity, so welcome to Boards.ie The Dreamer.

wes

anymore wrote: »

You are of course free to create your own context here and use as much detail and as space as you wish. I note that over the past fifty years Israel has to react to the changing conditions and development of palestinian terrorism and change it's defence policies to meet the new challenges. The new challenge now incorporates a fundamentalist religious religious element which has links accross the globe and which incorporates such bizarre notions as the idea that suicide bombers will be greeted by 70 or so virgins after their acts of mass murder.

No more bizarre, than God promising a particular piece of land to a particular group of people, and using violence to take it from its pre-existing inhabitants. Which is what Zionists (who came from Europe) subscribe to, of course secular Zionists leave out the Religous stuff, but still use the same source for there ridiculous land claims, and instead of Religous extremism they subscribe to secular ultra nationalism. It is of course this ideology that the settlers and there enablers in the Israeli government to steal more and more land that doesn't belong to them.

anymore

wes wrote: »

No more bizarre, than God promising a particular piece of land to a particular group of people, and using violence to take it from its pre-existing inhabitants. Which is what Zionists (who came from Europe) subscribe to, of course secular Zionists leave out the Religous stuff, but still use the same source for there ridiculous land claims, and instead of Religous extremism they subscribe to secular ultra nationalism. It is of course this ideology that the settlers and there enablers in the Israeli government to steal more and more land that doesn't belong to them.

Well I disagree with you on the question of which is the more bizzare. but the whole palestinian question has moived on from purely earth bound and secular considerations, has it not ?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/03/unchr-goldstone-report-totally-ignores-genocidal-hamas-charteras-all-un-bodies-did-for-20-years-sile.html
.United Nations Human Rights Council -13th session (1-26 March 2010)
Statement by David G. Littman - Tuesday (12:50) 22 March 2010
President (Chair): Ambassador Alex Van Meeuwen (Belgium)
Item 4: Human Rights situations in Palestine ... (Gaza-Goldstone Report: follow-up)

[The words in square brackets were not pronounced in the two minutes time limitation]
[Thank you, Mr. President. Five months ago at the 12th special session, the Council adopted a follow-up resolution on the Goldstone-Gaza Report sponsored by the OIC (Organization of the Islamic Conference), the NAM (Non-Aligned Movement) & the African & Arab Groups - with the usual automatic majority] which stresses: "that the right to life constitutes the most fundamental of all human rights." A/HRC/S-12/L - 14 October 2010]

Sir, we wish to stress again that the "right to life" is contradicted by a blatant omission in the 452 page Goldstone Report [A/HRC/12/48], which is the root cause of the Gaza tragedy. I am referring once again to the Hamas Charter which simply calls for Jews to be killed and Israel to be eliminated; a text which, like Mein Kampf, refers at length to a crude forgery [The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion]; a text that inspires a Jihadist-terrorist regime - with links to Hezbollah and Iran - to teach systematically a culture of hate and death to children and adults in schools, the media and on TV. We recommend last week's Report by MEMRI1 which provides scores of links to Hamas-controlled Al-Aqsa TV clips that show how Gaza children are taught to become 'Jihad martyrs', while killing Jews and anyone near them. These bloodthirsty TV 'shows' are there for all those with eyes to see and ears to hear.
[The titles are clear: "Dispatch those sons of apes and pigs to the hellfire on the wings of Qassem rockets" / "The Jihad against the Jews will continue until their annihilation / A Palestinian who kills one Jew will be rewarded as if he killed 30 million / Killing all Jews will not be satisfactory compensation for the 'Real Holocaust' in Gaza. On this visual irrefutable evidence, the U.S Treasury Department last week imposed sanctions on Al-Aqsa TV. Officials from the UK, France, Germany, Italy have been briefed on all this. (MEMRI, also PMW; and Intelligence & Terrorism Information Center: 'Response to the Goldstone Report: 'Hamas & the Terrorist Threat from the Gaza Strip. 2 ]
Sir, millions of Germans (not just Nazis) read Hitler's Mein Kampf - his Aryan 'struggle', mainly against Jews, that led to the monstrous 'final solution'- but very few persons worldwide felt concerned by such incitements to kill. Today, there is also little interest shown in this genocidal Hamas Charter, a Jihad / 'struggle' to kill Jews and wipe Israel off the map (with help from all and sundry), which we have been denouncing here since 1989 in vain. [1st time quoted by D GL for WUPJ at 45th session, Commission on Human Rights, 31st January 1989] Few have bothered to read how Jews, Judaism and Israel are targeted:
["Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Muslim people. 'Let the cowards never sleep.'" (Article 28), or that Article 7 quotes a 'saying' (hadith) still widely preached in talks and sermons worldwide that call on Muslims to fight & kill all Jews; 3 and that article 8, the Hamas 'slogan', is taken from the Muslim Brotherhood Charter, inspiring 'Jihadist Martyrdom Bombers' worldwide, and including U.S. convert 'Jihad Jane'; 4 and that the preface quotes its founder Hassan al-Banna's politicidal call: "Israel will exist and continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." Cf. our written NGO statements. 5]

Mr. President, we would ask: how can Judge Goldstone, his colleagues, the UN Secretary-General, the High Commissioner for Human Rights, UN officials, UNESCO, UNICEF, the OIC and this Council, and the 'international community', willingly ignore such blatant calls for children to kill [a "direct and public incitement to commit genocide" that are punishable under articles 3 and 4 of the 1948 Genocide Convention] and shrill defamations of religion: Judaism - all in the name of Allah and Islam, while the Council prepares to adopt another resolution on "Combating Defamation of Religions" [first initiated in 1999 by the OIC]?
Sir, future historians will ask: why this weird silence; this eerie faculty for forgetfulness of past and planned horrors via direct and public incitement to both politicide and genocide? Next week Christians will celebrate Easter and Jews Passover - the Exodus from Egypt to the Promised Land of Israel [Cf. Koran, The Table, Surah V: 23-26], followed by the official Shoah / Holocaust Remembrance Day on 11 April. Now is the time, sir, for this Council to denounce all this and the Hamas Charter and not keep silent - while seeking true peace rather than one more 'resolution'.
.... A last word from Shakespeare's Othello: "Silence that dreadful bell." [II. iii. 175]
Thank you, Mr President.

The Saint

anymore wrote: »

Well I disagree with you on the question of which is the more bizzare. but the whole palestinian question has moived on from purely earth bound and secular considerations, has it not ?

And what context is this in, in relation to the West Bank and East Jerusalem?

wes

anymore wrote: »

Well I disagree with you on the question of which is the more bizzare. but the whole palestinian question has moived on from purely earth bound and secular considerations, has it not ?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/03/unchr-goldstone-report-totally-ignores-genocidal-hamas-charteras-all-un-bodies-did-for-20-years-sile.html

Yeah, sorry Jihad watch are a joke. Can't possibly take them seriously. Also, invoking Memri, who have been caugh purposefully mis-translating TV shows, is even more funny. They have 0 credibility between the lot of them.

Anyway, look at the numbers, Israel murders far more Palestinian civilians than Hamas murders Israels ones, and we know Israel attack civilians according to the Goldstone report. Also, what does anything said have to do with Israels attack on Gaza, it seems to be typical whataboutery, that seeks to excuse Israel murderous violence, and pretend it never happened.

**EDIT**
Now, back to the topic at hand. Its seem as the Saint pointed out earlier. A new IDF order, means that Israel can basically engage in mass deporatations of Palestinians. Basically, I would call it ethnic cleansing, which is nothing new for Israel or anything. Will be interesting to see if they actually try it, what with the whole world watching them, but Netanyahu seems crazy enough to give it a go.
**END EDIT**

anymore

The Saint wrote: »

And what context is this in, in relation to the West Bank and East Jerusalem?

The context is I was replying to Wes's comments :
Quote:
Originally Posted by anymore
You are of course free to create your own context here and use as much detail and as space as you wish. I note that over the past fifty years Israel has to react to the changing conditions and development of palestinian terrorism and change it's defence policies to meet the new challenges. The new challenge now incorporates a fundamentalist religious religious element which has links accross the globe and which incorporates such bizarre notions as the idea that suicide bombers will be greeted by 70 or so virgins after their acts of mass murder.

Wes:
No more bizarre, than God promising a particular piece of land to a particular group of people, and using violence to take it from its pre-existing inhabitants. Which is what Zionists (who came from Europe) subscribe to, of course secular Zionists leave out the Religous stuff, but still use the same source for there ridiculous land claims, and instead of Religous extremism they subscribe to secular ultra nationalism. It is of course this ideology that the settlers and there enablers in the Israeli government to steal more and more land that doesn't belong to them.
Today 11:38
Is replying to a direct post now not relevant ?

The Saint

anymore wrote: »

The context is I was replying to Wes's comments :
Quote:
Originally Posted by anymore
You are of course free to create your own context here and use as much detail and as space as you wish. I note that over the past fifty years Israel has to react to the changing conditions and development of palestinian terrorism and change it's defence policies to meet the new challenges. The new challenge now incorporates a fundamentalist religious religious element which has links accross the globe and which incorporates such bizarre notions as the idea that suicide bombers will be greeted by 70 or so virgins after their acts of mass murder.

Wes:
No more bizarre, than God promising a particular piece of land to a particular group of people, and using violence to take it from its pre-existing inhabitants. Which is what Zionists (who came from Europe) subscribe to, of course secular Zionists leave out the Religous stuff, but still use the same source for there ridiculous land claims, and instead of Religous extremism they subscribe to secular ultra nationalism. It is of course this ideology that the settlers and there enablers in the Israeli government to steal more and more land that doesn't belong to them.
Today 11:38
Is replying to a direct post now not relevant ?

I just fail to see how this has any relevance to the thread.

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

The lady(....) The Dreamer.

More vague waffle.

Have you an answer to the question I put to you?

anymore

Nodin wrote: »

More vague waffle.

Have you an answer to the question I put to you?

I had hoped the thread asking for solutions to the Israel/Palestine issue might absorb the time and energies of those with a real interest in an equitable solution.
The analogy was crystal clear; if you are having difficulty with it, then further explanation would probobably not be useful. Perhaps one of your like minded posters on P.ie might help you out.

Dr_Serious

The usual bandwagon jumpers giving out about Israeli and the lack of civil rights they allow. Palestine, as a country, would be likely to convict homosexuals of a crime and deny women any semblance of free will. Where would the civil rights be then? Israel is not perfect but it's surrounded by hostile nations, as the six-day war showed, and they have to do what they can to protect their citizens.

Irlandese

time to chill, guys.
You both seem to appreciate that it is obviously best to look at the issues from two sides and try to ease away from single-perspective approaches but you are slipping a bit.
I am trying to follow your arguaments without butting in, but it's getting confusing..........

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

The analogy was crystal clear; .

To an extent - that the Palestinians should be content with 'x' and forget about 'y', roughly. I want to know what x is, and thats what I'm asking.

Why won't you explain yourself?

wes

Dr_Serious wrote: »

The usual bandwagon jumpers giving out about Israeli and the lack of civil rights they allow. Palestine, as a country, would be likely to convict homosexuals of a crime and deny women any semblance of free will. Where would the civil rights be then? Israel is not perfect but it's surrounded by hostile nations, as the six-day war showed, and they have to do what they can to protect their citizens.

I fail to see how Israels racism against Palestinians (which is a reality) is some how better, than a hypotetical treatment of Homosexuals and Women (which is speculation, as none of us can really predict the laws of a future Palestinian state). Treating people like crap over sexual orientation or gender, is no different than treating them like crap due to race.

Also, there being nations "hostile" to Israel, is no excuse for there blatant racism. Also, to add that Israel is not surrounded by "hostile" nations, they have peace deals with both Jordan abd Egypt, and the entire Arab league is offering peace via the Arab Peace Initiative. So, you claim is simply factually incorrect.

Nodin

Dr_Serious wrote: »

Where would the civil rights be then? Israel is not perfect but it's surrounded by hostile nations, as the six-day war showed, and they have to do what they can to protect their citizens.

.....but it would seem that many are measures taken to protect those of its citizens engaged in colonising areas of the OT. Wouldn't it be better to stay inside it's own borders, as other states are expected to do?

IrishTonyO

Dr_Serious wrote: »

The usual bandwagon jumpers giving out about Israeli and the lack of civil rights they allow. Palestine, as a country, would be likely to convict homosexuals of a crime and deny women any semblance of free will. Where would the civil rights be then? Israel is not perfect but it's surrounded by hostile nations, as the six-day war showed, and they have to do what they can to protect their citizens.

Strange for someone who has just joined today and has 2 posts, knowing what is usual or unusual here.

The Saint

Dr_Serious wrote: »

The usual bandwagon jumpers giving out about Israeli and the lack of civil rights they allow. Palestine, as a country, would be likely to convict homosexuals of a crime and deny women any semblance of free will. Where would the civil rights be then? Israel is not perfect but it's surrounded by hostile nations, as the six-day war showed, and they have to do what they can to protect their citizens.

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

joesoap007

TheDreamer wrote: »

Hi Wes,
I hope you don't mind me barging in on this discussion. It's my first post here so be nice
I wanted to share with you some information on the terrorist activity carried out by Palestinians (the Arab residents of Israel, the WB and Gaza) against Jews/Israel before 1967 - meaning, before Israel occupied the WB and Gaza Strip (which makes the "denial of rights" claim irrelevant).

First nationalistic murder of a Jew by Palestinians on the land of Israel – 1851

Early 1920’s – Sheik Az Al Din El Kassam was considered to be the first to lead violent activity against the Jews and the British rule.
The first terrorist activity against Jews by Palestinians took place during 1920 (6 Jews murdered) and in 1921 (43 Jews murdered).

The terror activity included:

1. penetrations to Jewish towns and neighborhoods and murdering of their residents
2. Ambushes and shootings
3. Burning crops and fields of Jews

1929 – 113 Jews murdered, 339 wounded in several attack. One of these attacks was the Hebron Massacre which wiped out the Jewish community of Hebron.

1936 – 1939 Riots and attacks of Jewish communities and British rule. Resulted in the killing of 400 Jews and 200 British.

1940’s – The Palestinians co-operate with the Nazis against the British and the Jewish communities. Haj Amin El Husseini commanded a Muslim SS unit in the Balkans. There was a plan to poison the waters of the Tel Aviv Jews.

1947 – The Arabs open a guerrilla war after the UN proposed the Partition Plan.

1949 – Fadayun attacks started right after the Israeli Independence War ended, mainly on the borders with the West Bank and Gaza and were carried out mostly by Palestinian refugees who fled Israel in 1948. (The Fadayun attack were on of the main causes of the Sinai War.)

1959 - Yasser Arafat forms the Fatah.

1964 - The PLO was formed.

1.1.1965 – Fatah carried out their first terror attack against Israel

1966 – Terrorist from the Jordanian West Bank plant bombs near Jewish homes in Jerusalem.

you forget one thing
the stern gang/haganah were bombing the birts to and were causing most of the trouble in palestine,,oh you havin told how meny arabs were killed 1851 to 1966 just jews? why is that...how much do you guys get 4 posting bullsh1te? a 5er a 10er a post

ps its the land of palestine

anymore

Dr_Serious wrote: »

The usual bandwagon jumpers giving out about Israeli and the lack of civil rights they allow. Palestine, as a country, would be likely to convict homosexuals of a crime and deny women any semblance of free will. Where would the civil rights be then? Israel is not perfect but it's surrounded by hostile nations, as the six-day war showed, and they have to do what they can to protect their citizens.

I would add to what you have said, that Israel is judged as a first world country whilst its adversaries are judged, when they are judged at all, by third world standards and even lower than third world standards.

anymore

joesoap007 wrote: »

you forget one thing
the stern gang/haganah were bombing the birts to and were causing most of the trouble in palestine,,oh you havin told how meny arabs were killed 1851 to 1966 just jews? why is that...how much do you guys get 4 posting bullsh1te? a 5er a 10er a post

ps its the land of palestine

The wonderful thing about forums like this is that everyone gets to post their facts and figures, so use the opportunity to inform of us of any facts you feel are relevant.

anymore

Nodin wrote: »

.....but it would seem that many are measures taken to protect those of its citizens engaged in colonising areas of the OT. Wouldn't it be better to stay inside it's own borders, as other states are expected to do?

I dont see too many people objecting to Iran's neo -colonial ventures in Palestine or Lebanon.

meditraitor

anymore wrote: »

I dont see too many people objecting to Iran's neo -colonial ventures in Palestine or Lebanon.

I dont see anyone accusing Iran of

Neocolonialism is a term used by post-colonial critics of developed countries' involvement in the developing world. Writings within the theoretical framework of neocolonialism argue that existing or past international economic arrangements created by former colonial powers were or are used to maintain control of their former colonies and dependencies after the colonial independence movements of the post-World War II period. The term neocolonialism can combine a critique of current actual colonialism (where some states continue administrating foreign territories and their populations in violation of United Nations resolutions[1]) and a critique of the involvement of modern capitalist businesses in nations which were former colonies. Critics adherent to neocolonialism contend that multinational corporations continue to exploit the resources of post-colonial states, and that this economic control inherent to neocolonialism is akin to the classical, European colonialism practiced from the 16th to the 20th centuries. In broader usage, neocolonialism may simply refer to the involvement of powerful countries in the affairs of less powerful countries; this is especially relevant in modern Latin America. In this sense, neocolonialism implies a form of contemporary, economic imperialism: that powerful nations behave like colonial powers of imperialism, and that this behavior is likened to colonialism in a post-colonial world.

Wiki