Israeli apartheid

wes

anymore wrote: »

Try to look on it as Compulsory Land Acquisition ! You know every State operates this type of land grab. It is for the greater good

So, basically you want to disregard International law?

Look here is a simple question, do you support Israel taking land in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, regardless of what International law states?!?

wes

anymore wrote: »

Well you asked for ' follow through thinking in relation to Israel, so here goes......

Morocco's occupation of the Western Sahara and the acceptance of it by their fellow Muslim States in the Middle East, makes Israel's present, and of course temporary, security led occupation of a small part of Jerusalem, seem like the norm rather than the exception.
The manner in which both Sunni and Shiite militants have forced thousands of fellow Iraqis from their traditional homes and the huge numbers of innocents( Up to one hundred thousand) who have been slaughtered by these militants, make the Israelis seem quite restrained in comparision.

Let me anticipate your answer :

• That not the question I asked ! (meaning that is not the answer I want)
• Thats off topic -
• Thats irrelevant ....etc

Use the New Topic button, and stop trying to derail this thread.

Secondly, nothing you said has any weight in International law, and finally seeing as you disregard International law, then I personally find you criticism of Hamas and there goals to be rather hilarious. You clearly support Israel violence to take other peoples land, and seem to have a problem when the other guys used violence to further there goals. You can't have your cake and eat it to, you know.

Also, to call a 40 year occupation, where Israel has stated they intend to keep huge chunks of the West Bank, and all of Jerusalem temporary, is simply unbelievable. The fact in no way shape or form back up your assertion. Israel clearly intends the occupation to be permanent, well at least the current government does.

wes

anymore wrote: »

Belfast and Derry are not part of the Republic, but we have accepted it and got on with life.

Yeah, just like East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza are not part of Israel.......

The Saint

anymore wrote: »

Well you asked for ' follow through thinking in relation to Israel, so here goes......

Morocco's occupation of the Western Sahara and the acceptance of it by their fellow Muslim States in the Middle East, makes Israel's present, and of course temporary, security led occupation of a small part of Jerusalem, seem like the norm rather than the exception.

Temporary occupation? It is the longest occupation in the world. Also, if you think the occupation is primarily based on security concerns you are delusional. Also, it is not a small part of Jerusalem. Israel has repeatedly and illegally expanded Jerusalems municipal boundaries since 1967. If you want to know the impact of this look at the case of Al Walaja.

anymore wrote: »

Belfast and Derry are not part of the Republic, but we have accepted it and got on with life.

Nothern Ireland is recognised internationally as being part of the UK. Israel's claim to the West Bank and East Jerusalem are not recognised by anyone. Your comparison is ridiculous.

anymore

wes wrote: »

Use the New Topic button, and stop trying to derail this thread.

Secondly, nothing you said has any weight in International law, and finally seeing as you disregard International law, then I personally find you criticism of Hamas and there goal to be rather hilarious. You clearly support Israel violence to take other peoples land, and seem to have a problem when the other guys used violence to further there goals. You can't have your cake and eat it to, you know.

Also, to call a 40 year occupation, where Israel has stated they intend to keep huge chunks of the West Bank, and all of Jerusalem temporary, is simply unbelievable. The fact in no way shape or form back up your assertion. Israel clearly intends the occupation to be permanent, well at least the current government does.

You cant logically bring International law into the thread and then complain about analagous situations. Well, logically it should not be be done but logic tends not to have much of a place in thse threads.

wes

anymore wrote: »

You cant logically bring International law into the thread and then complain about analagous situations.
Well, logically it should not be be done but logic tends not to have much of a place in thse threads.

Utter nonsense, you have tried repeatedly to derail the thread, and you have in no way shape or form provide anything analagous, and this has been shown repeatedly as well. If you want to discuss these topics, you can start a new thread. Your entire arguments have boiled down to "What About....", and nothing more.

Secondly, you have completely ignored huge chunks of my post, as per usual.

anymore

The Saint wrote: »

Temporary occupation? It is the longest occupation in the world. Also, if you think the occupation is primarily based on security concerns you are delusional. Also, it is not a small part of Jerusalem. Israel has repeatedly and illegally expanded Jerusalems municipal boundaries since 1967. If you want to know the impact of this look at the case of Al Walaja.


Nothern Ireland is recognised internationally as being part of the UK. Israel's claim to the West Bank and East Jerusalem are not recognised by anyone. Your comparison is ridiculous.

Ridiculous ?
Until recently we had a constitutional claim to the six counties. From our point of view, we had a legal right to the six counties. The UK had internationally recognised title to all of of Ireland for centuries. Internatinal recognition is very fickle. What is International law doing about Tibet ?

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

Well you asked for ' follow through thinking in relation to Israel, so here goes......

Morocco's occupation of the Western Sahara and the acceptance of it by their fellow Muslim States in the Middle East, makes Israel's present, and of course temporary, security led occupation of a small part of Jerusalem, seem like the norm rather than the exception.

Theres nothing temporary or security led about it. They annexed it with a vote in the Knessit years ago....You also seem to be deliberately ignoring the West Bank building, and the building in Arab East Jerusalem thats been constantly mentioned in the news this week.

Do you have any clue about the subject at all?

anymore wrote: »

Let me anticipate your answer :

• That not the question I asked ! (meaning that is not the answer I want)
• Thats off topic -
• Thats irrelevant ....etc

Correct on the last two, and the first part of the first.

anymore wrote: »

Belfast and Derry are not part of the Republic, but we have accepted it and got on with life.

....that makes no sense whatsoever.....

anymore

wes wrote: »

Utter nonsense, you have tried repeatedly to derail the thread, and you have in no way shape or form provide anything analagous, and this has been shown repeatedly as well. If you want to discuss these topics, start a new thread.

Secondly, you have completely ignored huge chunks of my post, as per usual.

This is your constant refrain on threads dealing with your hobby horses. It seems to be ' Do it my way or start a new thread.'
Let me repeat, if you want to introduce International Law into proceedings, then you cannot refuse the use of analagous situations.

wes

anymore wrote: »

This is your constant refrain on threads dealing with your hobby horses. It seems to be ' Do it my way or start a new thread.'

You seem to constantly want to derail this thread, so due to this, I have to repeat that you are being off topic, and suggest that if you really want to discuss the topic then you could of course start a new thread, and not derail this one.

anymore wrote: »

Let me repeat, if you want to introduce International Law into proceedings, then you cannot refuse the use of analagous situations.

You have not provided analagous situations, and you have rejected International law, and as such what you are saying makes no sense what so ever.

anymore

Nodin wrote: »

Theres nothing temporary or security led about it. They annexed it with a vote in the Knessit years ago....You also seem to be deliberately ignoring the West Bank building, and the building in Arab East Jerusalem thats been constantly mentioned in the news this week.

Do you have any clue about the subject at all?




Correct on the last two, and the first part of the first.



....that makes no sense whatsoever.....

Millions of people were forcibly uprooted from their traditional homes at the end of the last war and forced to new lands. The Palestinian situation is not unique. So lets stop making Palestine the epicentre of the world. It is not. Their situation is not unique - they will have to accept compromise - most people do.

IrishTonyO

anymore wrote: »

Well you asked for ' follow through thinking in relation to Israel, so here goes......

Morocco's occupation of the Western Sahara and the acceptance of it by their fellow Muslim States in the Middle East, makes Israel's present, and of course temporary, security led occupation of a small part of Jerusalem, seem like the norm rather than the exception.
The manner in which both Sunni and Shiite militants have forced thousands of fellow Iraqis from their traditional homes and the huge numbers of innocents( Up to one hundred thousand) who have been slaughtered by these militants, make the Israelis seem quite restrained in comparision.

Let me anticipate your answer :

• That not the question I asked ! (meaning that is not the answer I want)
• Thats off topic -
• Thats irrelevant ....etc

Of course they are the answers you will get this thread is about Israeli apartheid and you consistently bring in Western Sahara when you can't back you your points, derailing the thread

anymore

wes wrote: »

You seem to constantly want to derail this thread, so due to this, I have to repeat that you are being off topic, and suggest that if you really want to discuss the topic then you could of course start a new thread, and not derail this one.



You have not provided analogous situations, and you have rejected International law, and as such what you are saying makes no sense what so ever.

Why is the Western Sahara different from Palestine ? Or Tibet, or Kosovo or Chechnya or .....

The Saint

anymore wrote: »

Ridiculous ?
Until recently we had a constitutional claim to the six counties. From our point of view, we had a legal right to the six counties. The UK had internationally recognised title to all of of Ireland for centuries. Internatinal recognition is very fickle. What is International law doing about Tibet ?

Ireland's constutional claim had no basis internationally nor was not recognised internationally and therefore had no legitimate claim to Northern Ireland under international law. Unfortunately there is not much that can be done internationally about Tibet as China has a veto on the Security Council.

IrishTonyO

anymore wrote: »

Ridiculous ?
Until recently we had a constitutional claim to the six counties. From our point of view, we had a legal right to the six counties. The UK had internationally recognised title to all of of Ireland for centuries. Internatinal recognition is very fickle. What is International law doing about Tibet ?

Now you bring in Tibet will you please stick to the thread or create new ones

wes

anymore wrote: »

Why is the Western Sahara different from Palestine ? Or Tibet, or Kosovo or Chechnya or .....

Start a new thread, if you wish to discuss those countries. I won't be dragged into the whataboutery nonsense.

IrishTonyO

anymore wrote: »

Why is the Western Sahara different from Palestine ? Or Tibet, or Kosovo or Chechnya or .....

They are not the subject of this thread. It is very simple look at the title!!!!

wes

Anyway to get back on topic, another example from peacenow.org of the Apartheid that exists in Israel:

Setting the Record Straight: Palestinians Can't Really Live in West Jerusalem

BlaasForRafa

wes wrote: »

Start a new thread, if you wish to discuss those countries. I won't be dragged into the whataboutery nonsense.

Its never stopped you in the past.

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

What is International law doing about Tibet ?

Nothing, as China can veto any motion in much the same way as the US vetoes motions on the Occupation, despite the fact its clearly illegal.

The expression "two wrongs don't make a right" is new to you, I take it?

BlaasForRafa

Nodin wrote: »

Nothing, as China can veto any motion in much the same way as the US vetoes motions on the Occupation, despite the fact its clearly illegal.

The expression "two wrongs don't make a right" is new to you, I take it?

This topic is pretty much played out at this stage. I've said just about all I want to say in any case, I don't need to clarify any of the statements I've already made.

However if this just turns into a "random slag off Israel" thread then it'll say more about the participants than it does about Israel.

wes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its never stopped you in the past.

Yes, and hence why I am trying not to do so now. Secondly, I could easily say various things about your contributions, but I don't see any reason to get personal.

BlaasForRafa

wes wrote: »

Yes, and hence why I am trying not to do so now. Secondly, I could easily say various things about your contributions, but I don't see any reason to get personal.

Theres a number of things I could say about your contributions too.

wes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Theres a number of things I could say about your contributions too.

Well, you already have in this thread........

Anyway, the thread isn't about either of us, so best to move on.

joesoap007

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Yeah Fatah seized the west bank...after Hamas seized the Gaza strip. They are both violent organizations more interested in power than their peoples welfare. Trying to make one out to be "good" and one out to be "bad" is foolish.

power of what? they have nothing..hamas are doing the best they can do.remember idf targeted palestine police men with their first shells and air strikes wich is a war crime i think, they hit everything of importants.hamas are trying to rebuild homes schools and stuff like that.they have bad people to but everyone has that same problem EVERYWERE..at lest hamas didn sell out their own people and fill them full of sh1te..robert fisk book explains it well..fatah sold out..thats why hamas took power..thats why israel want to crush them because they cant be bought and sold like fatah arafat was..

anymore

wes wrote: »

Anyway to get back on topic, another example from peacenow.org of the Apartheid that exists in Israel:

Setting the Record Straight: Palestinians Can't Really Live in West Jerusalem

Thank you for that. Clearly all citizens of israel shoul havethe right to buy land in East Jerusalem and not just rent it.. The sooner East Jerusalem is fully integrated into the rest of Jerusalem, the better for all. Though it is reassuring to see Ethnic palestinians seeking to rent property there. Presumably if they had ideological objections, they wouldnt be seeking the right to buy off of the State of Israel. :rolleyes:
Long live the free market !

wes

anymore wrote: »

Thank you for that. Clearly all citizens of israel shoul havethe right to buy land in East Jerusalem and not just rent it.. The sooner East Jerusalem is fully integrated into the rest of Jerusalem, the better for all. Though it is reassuring to see Ethnic palestinians seeking to rent property there. Presumably if they had ideological objections, they wouldnt be seeking the right to buy off of the State of Israel. :rolleyes:
Long live the free market !

So, you have decided to ignore the entire thurst of the article, and the clear and unambigous inequality between Israeli's and Palestinians in the city.

Well, I can't say I am surprised, and once again you show support for the illegal annexation of East Jerusalem, which isn't recognised by any other country on the planet, as it is a clear violation of International law, and surefire way to ensure the conflict is never resolved.

Also, the reason Palestinians are renting property, is that there is a desperate shortage of housing for them, which is clearly explained in the link article from Peace Now.

IrishTonyO

don't bother wes, anymore just sees and hears what he wants to, God forbid the facts might get in the way

anymore

wes wrote: »

So, you have decided to ignore the entire thurst of the article, and the clear and unambigous inequality between Israeli's and Palestinians in the city.

Well, I can't say I am surprised, and once again you show support for the illegal annexation of East Jerusalem, which isn't recognised by any other country on the planet, as it is a clear violation of International law, and surefire way to ensure the conflict is never resolved.

Also, the reason Palestinians are renting property, is that there is a desperate shortage of housing for them, which is clearly explained in the link article from Peace Now.

Well the site can hadly be regarded as detached and unbiased !

wes

anymore wrote: »

Well the site can hadly be regarded as detached and unbiased !

Yes, your right, they are biased towards peace. Still, everything they say is true in this instance, and imho what Israel does in Jerusalem is indefensible and is further evidence of the existence of apartheid.