Does she care?

changes

flanzer wrote: »

Ask the locals in Donegal and there's the differing opinion. She's a demi-God in these parts.

I can't speak for everyone, but she is not well regarded where i'm from. She has done very little for these parts.

On the issue though. MOL has one eye on taking over air lingus with all this carry on IMO. Why not accept a new hanger.

bamboozle

snubbleste wrote: »

You should've seen her on BBC Worldwide, broadcasting her deputy prime minister views globally.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCQ_x15g0hQ

oh dear me that is cringe viewing of the highest order, that reporter seemed to know more about the woes of the country than dear old Mary!
we gotta appreciate that Mary has been very busy these last few months, what with signing off on early full pensions for disgraced public servants who were forced to retire early and ignoring reports on FAS placed on her desk in June until September when she decides to finally release the FAS finding on the day NAMA is launched....she has done an extremely poor job but no doubt next election she'll be relelected just like Bev in Mayo and Michael down in Tipp!

donkey balls

bamboozle wrote: »

oh dear me that is cringe viewing of the highest order, that reporter seemed to know more about the woes of the country than dear old Mary!
we gotta appreciate that Mary has been very busy these last few months, what with signing off on early full pensions for disgraced public servants who were forced to retire early and ignoring reports on FAS placed on her desk in June until September when she decides to finally release the FAS finding on the day NAMA is launched....she has done an extremely poor job but no doubt next election she'll be relelected just like Bev in Mayo and Michael down in Tipp!

+ 1 and to think that it was broadcast around the globe what will other countries think of our second in command:rolleyes:

mossfort

mary coughlan has come out of the meeting with michael oleary failing to reach an agreement.
it seems to be over a clause in the lease of the hangar in dublin airport that it cant be vacated.
o leary says hes going to look at other european countries. it looks like ireland will miss out yet again because of government incompetence.

JMSE

I'm no fan of anyone on anyside of this arguement. I think O'Leary though is just playing to the gallery, you dont just walk into a hangar and kick an airline out especially when they are tenants there. And you dont do it just to put their opposition IN. And now MOL is gonna walk away from this having created a storm, leaving the others scrapping over the details. Why cant he build a new facility, think of all the jobs in that alone. If Irish unemployed people were his main concern he would get over his problems with the DAA.

Welease

O'Leary doesn't want to do anything except create some sh*t. His only interest is himself, Ryanair and his rediculous war of words between him and some members of the government...

stepbar

JMSE wrote: »

I'm no fan of anyone on anyside of this arguement. I think O'Leary though is just playing to the gallery, you dont just walk into a hangar and kick an airline out especially when they are tenants there. And you dont do it just to put their opposition IN. And now MOL is gonna walk away from this having created a storm, leaving the others scrapping over the details. Why cant he build a new facility, think of all the jobs in that alone. If Irish unemployed people were his main concern he would get over his problems with the DAA.

Did you read the letters?

He offered to rent the Hanger at the price that the DAA purchased the lease off SR Technics for. The DAA said they had "interested parties" and told him to effectively PFO. The "interested parties" turned out to be Aer Lingus, who are under utilising the facility. So effectively they were telling porkies.

Diarmuid

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I take it that you know this because Michael O'Leary says so.

You have one incredible chip on your shoulder about MOL

P. Breathnach

Diarmuid wrote: »

You have one incredible chip on your shoulder about MOL

I don't. I'm not a fan, but I don't carry chips on my shoulder.

thebman

The real question is if the DAA were a completely private business, would they move AL for Ryanair.

I think the answer would be yes given Ryanair have the best long term prospects and AL can use other facilities that don't put them out in anyway.

If AL did sign a lease that said they can be moved any time then that is their own fault same as any company that took an upwards only rent review lease on a premises during boom times.

heyjude

Riskymove wrote: »

fobbed off?

The DAA own the hangar, if Ryanair wanted the fecking hangar they should have dealt with the DAA, or at least attempted to

this is all just because its Coughlan and people dont like her....as I said above, if this was Sean dunne or seanie fitzpatrick demanding a Minister do something favorable for them (even if jobs were to be created) it would be a different slant on boards today

The issue is not how Coughlan would react to a request from Sean Dunne or Seanie Fitzpatrick, the issue is how she would be reacting if instead of it being Michael O'Leary and Ryanair, it had instead been someone like SouthWest Airlines or American Airlines. Do you honestly think if SouthWest or American Airlines wanted to use the hangar, promised these jobs and didn't want to deal with the DAA, that she'd have given them the same reply ? I seriously doubt it.

The DAA may own the hangar, but who owns the DAA ? The state. So its a bit rich to pretend that the Minister has no influence.

'He who pays the piper calls the tune' and in this case, it seems Ryanair are the only party with 300 jobs to offer, we need a minister who's prepared to go the extra mile to secure these jobs, before the offer is withdrawn(as I expect it will be) and they end up somewhere else in Europe.

Then again, this government doesn't seem to specialise in urgency, so it would be out of character to expect them to show any urgency now.

Guy:Incognito

stepbar wrote: »

"Coughlan wants Ryanair business plan"
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0216/ryanair.html

I LOL'ed

I wonder did Aer Lingus produce a business plan when they went forth to the DAA asking to rent Hanger 6?
.

Why would they? There was an empty hanger and they rented it out. Ryanair wanting the government tostep in and tell the DAA to throw AL out of the hanger to let Ryanair in is completely different.

Riskymove wrote: »

fobbed off?

The DAA own the hangar, if Ryanair wanted the fecking hangar they should have dealt with the DAA, or at least attempted to

this is all just because its Coughlan and people dont like her....as I said above, if this was Sean dunne or seanie fitzpatrick demanding a Minister do something favorable for them (even if jobs were to be created) it would be a different slant on boards today

Theres a bit of selective reading going on. People just want to jump in and give out about the government or Mary Coughlan, reasoned debate doesnt seem to factor.

stepbar wrote: »

http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/company-profile/board-of-directors.html

Do you think that's a good board of directors? 4/13 are effectively union reps. 2 are from the other airports. And the rest well....... only 1 really has real experience of managing an airport (or set of). And I won't start about Bill Cullen (although I admire him in other respects)....

And then look at the management team - http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/company-profile/management.html

What the fcuk business has anyone from Cork and Shannon got being on the mgt team in Dublin?

And I thought the DAA was "supposed" to be independent.....

The DAA runs Dublin , Cork and Shannon, not just Dublin.

heyjude wrote: »

The DAA may own the hangar, but who owns the DAA ? The state. So its a bit rich to pretend that the Minister has no influence..

Maybe the public need to draw up a list of private companies that the Government can step in and help out or bend rules for. They swing wildly from "FF lineing their friends pockets" and "jobs for the boys"etc to "give Ryanair what they want regardless"

Are we to assume that if all the developers and bankers people like to give out so much about had put on a show argueing and opposeign FF for a bit, no one would have had a problem with any of the events of the last couple of years?

CityCentreMan

It seems to be in everyone's interest that these jobs be retained in Ireland and that they be "activated" as quickly as possible.

The proposal to build a new hangar is obviously a red herring on the part of the DAA. Between negotiations, tendering processes, environmental impact assessments, planning appeals and finally construction, it would be years before completion.

There can be little doubt that if this was Michael Dell instead of Michael O'Leary all the state sector would be falling all over him. In the eyes of the "Powers that Be" in our little fiefdom, MOL is certainly regarded as a bit of a "lout", possibly with some justification. However, he is our lout and in terms of tourism, employment & general wealth creation, he has done more for Ireland than any of our politicians or civil servants or government quangos.

MOL is being accused of over-simplifying the situation in terms of what he wants. I totally disagree.

1) The Aircraft Engineers are fully qualified and available immediately;
2) The Hangar is not being used and is ideally located;
3) The Hangar is currently being leased to Aer lingus who:
a) Is'nt using it!
b) Cant afford it;
c) Is unlikely to be around in the longer term;
d) Presumably, has a majority of it's shareholders who want this deal to go ahead. (Between the Govt Stake, Ryanair Shareholding and Shares held by former Team Aer lingus employees)

The antipathy of Aer Lingus Management, the DAA and successive Government Ministers towards Ryanair & MOL in particular, whilst understandable (given their collective inadequacies ) must not be allowed to let these jobs be lost.

MOL's efforts to deal with Mary Coughlan instead of the DAA was obviously an attempt to both generate extra publicity for his company as well as an attempt to carve out a workable deal by negotiating with the Organ Grinder instead of the Monkey.

Unfortunately, he just got another monkey!

flanzer

Ryanair are a bunch of media hungry sh!t stirrers and media rags like the Indo prefer to DAA bash and government bash when they feel like it. I'm no fan of the government and half a fan of the Ryanair but some of the lies and media puppetry from Ryanair is sickening.

Aer Lingus do use that hanger for their wide body aircraft like the A330, but at the time this was taken, there was none on the ground at Dublin Airport.....or was there????

Here's the evidence.....

Take a look at their website with their photographic evidence of Hanger 6 and the 'unoccupied' state it is in

http://www.ryanair.com/ie/news/o-leary-invites-tanaiste-to-meet-on-300-jobs

I've highlighted some that might be of interest to the public. To me it looks like the back of an A330:


Now take a look at the beautiful cropping that the Indo has done on the same image, in their article on page 12:



I'll people decide and discuss....

P. Breathnach

CityCentreMan wrote: »

...
2) The Hangar is not being used and is ideally located;
3) The Hangar is currently being leased to Aer lingus who:
a) Is'nt using it!
...

This contradicts a number of posts on these boards from people who seem to me to know the situation at the airport.

Are you asking us to believe that Aer Lingus signed a lease on a major facility in order to leave it lying empty?

draward

Can the goverment not tell the daa to move air lingus?
or are daa the goverment. Who is running our country. If AL have a lease the goverment owns or has a big share in them.

I am confussed

Riskymove

heyjude wrote: »

The DAA may own the hangar, but who owns the DAA ? The state. So its a bit rich to pretend that the Minister has no influence.

'He who pays the piper calls the tune' and in this case, it seems Ryanair are the only party with 300 jobs to offer, we need a minister who's prepared to go the extra mile to secure these jobs, before the offer is withdrawn(as I expect it will be) and they end up somewhere else in Europe.

I think you are missing my point somewhat here

there are a number of people here saying that a Government Minister should direct another state organisation to evict their legal tenants and give the hangar to Ryanair just because O'Leary wants it and, crucially, there are some jobs

the idea seems to be that ANYTHING should be done in return for some jobs and if the Governemnt dont act in this way, they are in the wrong...I cant agree...indeed I am certain of the Minister instructed the DAA to kick Ryanair out of some facility so that Aer Lingus could use it, there would be uproar

on a side note, Coughlan has no authority over the DAA, if anyone does it would be the Minister for Transport

some other posters are also on similar lines of thinking to me

the difference to what you say is that no other airline (american or otherwise) would come in, blasting in the media, demanding that the Government of the Country dance to their tune....they would deal with the DAA directly (quietly) and probably work out a deal

Riskymove

draward wrote: »

. If AL have a lease the goverment owns or has a big share in them.

I am confussed

the government owns a share in Aerlingus, but so do Ryanair!!

niether can really direct AL to do anything until they have majority share

P. Breathnach

flanzer wrote: »

... I'll people decide and discuss....

Good spotting! Is that an airplane I see before me?

Does nobody in Ryanair know how to use image manipulation software? At least to the same standard as their truth manipulation software?

Sesshoumaru

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Good spotting! Is that an airplane I see before me?

Does nobody in Ryanair know how to use image manipulation software? At least to the same standard as their truth manipulation software?

I don't think Ryanair ever said AL don't occasionally put an airplane in there for maintenance. Their argument seems to be that AL don't need a hangar that size for what they use it for and that it is significantly under utilised by AL.

Another good opportunity to provide employment for people wasted by our country. Does anyone who is complaining about MOL or Ryanair have 300 to 500 jobs to offer the unemployed technicians who formerly worked in SRT?

Riskymove

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I don't think Ryanair ever said AL don't occasionally put an airplane in there for maintenance. Their argument seems to be that AL don't need a hangar that size for what they use it for and that it is significantly under utilised by AL.

AL are paying rent for the premises, they can, effectively, operate it as they wish.

If its possible for them to go elsewhere without too much inconvenience then that should be explored through proper dialogue....the idea that one company can demand that the Government kick another company out of legally held premises is just a joke..and I cannot see how people cannot get that?

Welease

Riskymove wrote: »

AL are paying rent for the premises, they can, effectively, operate it as they wish.

If its possible for them to go elsewhere without too much inconvenience then that should be explored through proper dialogue....the idea that one company can demand that the Government kick another company out of legally held premises is just a joke..and I cannot see how people cannot get that?

I would imagine the vast majority of sensible people get that.. I just sense a lot of anger that the government were in a position to facilitate the creation of 500 new jobs if they had acted quicker and with more resolve. They can work with the DAA to explore options, they can work with Aer Lingus to look at alternative premises (and there is apparently a clause in the lease that allows this), and they can work with Ryanair to bring the work back to Ireland.

Is it the perfect process to land the jobs? Absolutely not.
Is MOL taking the piss? Of course he is.

But have the ministers and people we pay highly done enough to secure those jobs.. Absolutely not.. and that I sense is where a lot of the anger comes from.

Sesshoumaru

Welease wrote: »

I would imagine the vast majority of sensible people get that.. I just sense a lot of anger that the government were in a position to facilitate the creation of 500 new jobs if they had acted quicker and with more resolve. They can work with the DAA to explore options, they can work with Aer Lingus to look at alternative premises (and there is apparently a clause in the lease that allows this), and they can work with Ryanair to bring the work back to Ireland.

Is it the perfect process to land the jobs? Absolutely not.
Is MOL taking the piss? Of course he is.

But have the ministers and people we pay highly done enough to secure those jobs.. Absolutely not.. and that I sense is where a lot of the anger comes from.

+1 You articulated that better than I did.

Surely something could have been done to accommodate both companies if Coughlan had acted with a little more urgency back in August. No I just get the feeling those in power have a chip on their shoulders when it come to MOL/Ryanair and would rather just frustrate their efforts no matter the cost! As long no one notices they are costing us jobs anyway!

stepbar

Stekelly wrote: »

Why would they? There was an empty hanger and they rented it out. Ryanair wanting the government tostep in and tell the DAA to throw AL out of the hanger to let Ryanair in is completely different.

Exactly. My question is why would the Government would want a business plan from Ryanair.

Stekelly wrote: »

The DAA runs Dublin , Cork and Shannon, not just Dublin.

But yet each of them has a seperate authority and have a seperate legal standing.

Riskymove

Welease wrote: »

Is it the perfect process to land the jobs? Absolutely not.
Is MOL taking the piss? Of course he is.

But have the ministers and people we pay highly done enough to secure those jobs.. Absolutely not.. and that I sense is where a lot of the anger comes from.

I have no problem with people being frustrated at the situation but I can see plenty of blame on all sides here including Ryanair.

however, the focus on this thread has been to lay the blame at Mary Coughlan's door...simply because she is not well regarded on Boards.

Welease

Riskymove wrote: »

I have no problem with people being frustrated at the situation but I can see plenty of blame on all sides here including Ryanair.

however, the focus on this thread has been to lay the blame at Mary Coughlan's door...simply because she is not well regarded on Boards.

Agreed, and the story is being spun 20 different ways depending on which side is currently talking to the media..

But there is one person who's clear remit is to work to secure those jobs in Ireland, and that is Mary Coughlan. She is also in a position to work with the other parties (AL and DAA) to make this happen.

One could be forgiven (given that a clause was written in AL's lease one would imagine for precisely this eventuality) that if it was British Airways, American Arlines or any other major carrier looking for that hanger, more would have been done to accomodate them. People have a right to be concerned about that and a right to get some answers.

At present, it really looks like a half arsed effort is being made late in the day (because O'Leary forced the issue in the media), and we as a country should expect far more from our highly paid ministers and their respective departments.

Guy:Incognito

Welease wrote: »

But there is one person who's clear remit is to work to secure those jobs in Ireland, and that is Mary Coughlan. She is also in a position to work with the other parties (AL and DAA) to make this happen. .

The purpose of the DAA is to run the airport and deal with these things. Why the hell does MOL feel he should be able to walk in and decide he doesnt want to have to deal with the DAA but instead have the government do it for him? It smacks of him just wanting to play games with and take the piss out of a government he doesnt like because they are in a bad way.

Is Mary Coughlan to be available at all times as MOL's private secretary for any and all of his dealings with the DAA? What happens when he wants to put up some new advertiseing hoardings? Does he ring MC and just say "hey you, go get me a good deal"?

CityCentreMan

P. Breathnach wrote: »

This contradicts a number of posts on these boards from people who seem to me to know the situation at the airport.

Are you asking us to believe that Aer Lingus signed a lease on a major facility in order to leave it lying empty?

I'm sorry! I should have said that it appears that the Hangar concerned does not appear to be used to capacity and that it would appear that Ryanair's argument that Aerlingus activities could be easily transferred to other available facilities seemed to have some validity.

I am also sorry for being a bit hard on Mary Coughlan. What I should have said is that I would have preferred if she had:

a) demonstrated a "can do - will do" approach;
b) wholeheartedly taken on the task of securing these jobs for Dublin;
c) undertaken to personally do everything possible;
d) committed the good offices of her staff & colleagues to find a solution;
e) committed herself to raising this issue with the Min for Transport who is also (on our behalf) a major shareholder in Aer Lingus
f) In general terms.......looking as if she cared!!!!!

To answer the OP's question.....No she does not care!

Just noticed that this is my 100th post. Am I due a raise, any allowances or other entitlements?

bamboozle

Stekelly wrote: »

The purpose of the DAA is to run the airport and deal with these things. Why the hell does MOL feel he should be able to walk in and decide he doesnt want to have to deal with the DAA but instead have the government do it for him? It smacks of him just wanting to play games with and take the piss out of a government he doesnt like because they are in a bad way.

Is Mary Coughlan to be available at all times as MOL's private secretary for any and all of his dealings with the DAA? What happens when he wants to put up some new advertiseing hoardings? Does he ring MC and just say "hey you, go get me a good deal"?

in my view, any company willing to create 300 new jobs should be facilitated in all manners possible. When there was rumblings of Dell pulling out of Limerick it wasnt a delegation from the IDA we saw going over to America to negotiate with Dell, it was our Minister for Enterprise as this was of national importance and needed to be treated accordingly.
If ryanair are willing to create 300 jobs then any role that any member of our government can play in sealing this deal should be fully encouraged.

Guy:Incognito

CityCentreMan wrote: »

I'm sorry! I should have said that it appears that the Hangar concerned does not appear to be used to capacity and that it would appear that Ryanair's argument that Aerlingus activities could be easily transferred to other available facilities seemed to have some validity.

If your renting a 3 bed house for you, your wife and a child that you signed a 1 year lease for , would you be happy if another family decided that because they have 2 kids you should be kicked out of the house and sent elsewhere to rent a smaller house?