Irish Should be compulsory?? WHAT YOU THINK?

Iwasfrozen

Lawliet wrote: »

Wishful thinking but I doubt the majority of people would risk dropping Irish if it meant they might not be able to apply to their dream collage. I'd image most would keep Irish on to keep their options open.

Only the NUI's require a pass in Irish, however once the majority of people have dropped Irish, which they will, the NUI's will be forced to cut the requirement or lose out on students.

grrrrrrrrrr

Lawliet wrote: »

You're forgetting about NUIs they require Irish as well as a third language. And then there's collages that accept Irish instead of a foreign language like French or German.


Wishful thinking but I doubt the majority of people would risk dropping Irish if it meant they might not be able to apply to their dream collage. I'd image most would keep Irish on to keep their options open.

in fairness i dont think this would be the case! try explain to your employer why your employer why you chose a pointless subject over one which may add to you career!!

And im sure if the NUI's wanted to stay open they'd revoke this irish needed rule!!

grrrrrrrrrr

5 votes, 60:40, thats the majority of the crountry spoken for!! haha!

Will i e mail this link to Batt o keefe??

Iwasfrozen

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

5 votes, 60:40, thats the majority of the crountry spoken for!! haha!

Will i e mail this link to Batt o keefe??

Yes, please do.

Lawliet

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Only the NUI's require a pass in Irish, however once the majority of people have dropped Irish, which they will, the NUI's will be forced to cut the requirement or lose out on students.

Or more likely, students will think ahead and check whether their course/ collage needs Irish and if it does they'll keep it on. Sure plenty of students will drop Irish, but that'll just free up places for the students who didn't drop Irish.

Besides even if Irish isn't technically compulsory, schools can still require their students to do it.

grrrrrrrrrr wrote:

in fairness i dont think this would be the case! try explain to your employer why your employer why you chose a pointless subject over one which may add to you career!!

Sorry, what?

And im sure if the NUI's wanted to stay open they'd revoke this irish needed rule!!

Yeah...I really can't see the NUIs closing die to lack of demand any time soon.

grrrrrrrrrr

Lawliet wrote: »

Or more likely, students will think ahead and check whether their course/ collage needs Irish and if it does they'll keep it on. Sure plenty of students will drop Irish, but that'll just free up places for the students who didn't drop Irish.

Besides even if Irish isn't technically compulsory, schools can still require their students to do it.


Sorry, what?


Yeah...I really can't see the NUIs closing die to lack of demand any time soon.

if you did pick irish as an option it would mean you didnt do physics or geography etc! in your interview if an employer asked you why did you chose irish over another more benefiticial subject what would be your reply?

grrrrrrrrrr

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes, please do.

If a few more people vote then i will send it on to batt and see if i get a reply! just for the fun of it!! haha!

Will need a few more numbers tho!!

Iwasfrozen

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

If a few more people vote then i will send it on to batt and see if i get a reply! just for the fun of it!! haha!

Will need a few more numbers tho!!

If you wait for a few days you'll get a realistic result, although tbh, I don't think you'll get a response from his Lordship himself rather a reply from one of the underlings.

grrrrrrrrrr

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

If you wait for a few days you'll get a realistic result, although tbh, I don't think you'll get a response from his Lordship himself rather a reply from one of the underlings.

Id nearly have more respect in one of his underlings... have met him before and i wouldnt vote for him really like.

he's prob rather dizzy too with all his U-turns, snow closures, college fees etc!! although i know im just being harsh!!

but in fairness to hanafin she seemed to be more of a mininster for the students!!

Anyway off point! more people comment and vote and ill e mail him say on friday or so and we'll see how it goes!!

Lawliet

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

if you did pick irish as an option it would mean you didnt do physics or geography etc! in your interview if an employer asked you why did you chose irish over another more benefiticial subject what would be your reply?

Simple, I'd just say that in order to get on to my course I was required to have Irish. But it seems unlikely that an employer would be asking someone about their leaving cert subject choices, provided they have the relevant qualifications for the job.

Ash_M

I'd be very surprised if someone asked why you did a certain subject in an interview. The primary reasons people do subjects are that they're needed for a course or future career, or that they play to their strengths and will get them the points. In an interview you've most likely gotten past all that and have your qualifications.

Iwasfrozen

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Id nearly have more respect in one of his underlings... have met him before and i wouldnt vote for him really like.

he's prob rather dizzy too with all his U-turns, snow closures, college fees etc!! although i know im just being harsh!!

I also met him during the offical opening of our school extension, tbh I didn't like him one bit and he wasn't very charasmatic.

I'm old enough to vote now but no way in hell would I vote for him, especially after he tried to introduce third level fees.

Elessar

No it shouldn't. There is no reason other than patriotism that it is compulsory. It is a meaningless language in this world and, specifically, in this country. It has no general purpose and should never be forced upon any young person.

I can't see a logical reason why it's not optional. Let those who want to learn it learn it, and those who don't, do something else. Something that will be useful that they will be interested in. What's wrong with that? Everyones happy.

Looking back, Irish was the biggest waste of my time as a school student. Thousands of hours spent forcibly learning something I haven't the slightest interest in, can't speak, don't want to speak, have no interest in whatsoever. That time could have been spent doing another subject I had at least a semblance of attraction to. I resent having been forced to learn it.

grrrrrrrrrr

Elessar wrote: »

No it shouldn't. There is no reason other than patriotism that it is compulsory. It is a meaningless language in this world and, specifically, in this country. It has no general purpose and should never be forced upon any young person.

I can't see a logical reason why it's not optional. Let those who want to learn it learn it, and those who don't, do something else. Something that will be useful that they will be interested in. What's wrong with that? Everyones happy.

Looking back, Irish was the biggest waste of my time as a school student. Thousands of hours spent forcibly learning something I haven't the slightest interest in, can't speak, don't want to speak, have no interest in whatsoever. That time could have been spent doing another subject I had at least a semblance of attraction to. I resent having been forced to learn it.

Here here, Was at the gym with three of the lads their and waas telling them about this and they all agreed it should be an option! id hardly say it'd be as radicle iintroducing the HPAT!

There would just be a handful of hippies that would reject it!

Ill ask Batt his opinion on the matter at the end of the week! he'll prob ignore me but ive an aunt working for the dept and ill ask her what she makes of the whole thing.

at the end of the dayirish will be at least made an option in years to come. certainly before our grandkids anyway and hopefully for our kids!!

dambarude

It's been touted before-

I think it should be compulsory to Junior Cert, which should in turn have a compulsory oral. Instead of the unseen poetry and stories and all that which is studied at JC, one fairly easily understood, short novel would probably be better. But the bulk of the marks should be for oral and general language ability. And they need to do something about the "D'fhéach mé amach an fhuinneog agus chonaic mé timpiste" stories that everyone seems to write.

At LC it should probably be optional, or split into two courses- literature and language capability. I don't know how the practicalities of that would work though, i'd say it's unlikely to happen. If it stayed as once subject I think that once again, instead of studying a plethora of different stories and poems, as well as a novel/drama/autobiography/or more shortstories, it should be more confined.

grrrrrrrrrr

dambarude wrote: »

It's been touted before-

I think it should be compulsory to Junior Cert, which should in turn have a compulsory oral. Instead of the unseen poetry and stories and all that which is studied at JC, one fairly easily understood, short novel would probably be better. But the bulk of the marks should be for oral and general language ability. And they need to do something about the "D'fhéach mé amach an fhuinneog agus chonaic mé timpiste" stories that everyone seems to write.

At LC it should probably be optional, or split into two courses- literature and language capability. I don't know how the practicalities of that would work though, i'd say it's unlikely to happen. If it stayed as once subject I think that once again, instead of studying a plethora of different stories and poems, as well as a novel/drama/autobiography/or more shortstories, it should be more confined.

In my opinion, not that anyone asked, there are prob 100s of teachers and dept workers with very good plans, ideas, theories etc on how this could be implemented but they arent speaking out(loud eniugh)

I dono any teacher who likes the current system!

Dont forget to vote...

Geard

Ba chéart naire a bheith oraibh féin!!!! Téanga a throid ar sinsearach fa bhur gcoinne!!!! 800 bhlian!!!!!!!!!!!

Evan93

Elessar wrote: »

No it shouldn't. There is no reason other than patriotism that it is compulsory. It is a meaningless language in this world and, specifically, in this country. It has no general purpose and should never be forced upon any young person.

I can't see a logical reason why it's not optional. Let those who want to learn it learn it, and those who don't, do something else. Something that will be useful that they will be interested in. What's wrong with that? Everyones happy.

Looking back, Irish was the biggest waste of my time as a school student. Thousands of hours spent forcibly learning something I haven't the slightest interest in, can't speak, don't want to speak, have no interest in whatsoever. That time could have been spent doing another subject I had at least a semblance of attraction to. I resent having been forced to learn it.

I completely agree with this. People should have the choice to do it or not. After we leave secondary school we will never use it again except for a small number of people. You may say, oh you might never use history again. What I would say is, you were given the choice to do history,no one else but yourself made that choice and it's your own tough luck if you did not like the subject. We were never ever given the choice to do Irish, it was forced upon us. Poetry and literature were forced upon us,essays and grammer.

The likes of English and Maths are a nessecity. We will need these in our future lives. Maybe not Shakespeare or Wuthering Heights. However, we will need a reasonable grasp of the language as we will be using it everyday. We will not be using Irish. For maths, it develops our aritmithic skills and helps us to think logically.

As we can see, Irish is unessential,irrelevant and a waste of time. It has no purpose to our lives as other subjects have.

Also, I have been learning Irish from about 5 years of age. Over this amount of time it would be expected that I would be fluent. Yes, it didn't take me more than 5 years to speak english fluently. However, I am not fluent in Irish, why is this? Well, now it comes down to the teaching. The teaching is of an older time, not our time. Saying this, I have been learning French for 4 years and my French is drastically better than my Irish.

At the end of the day, it's compulsory and we have to get on with it. Unfair? Yes. Something to get angry over? No.

In my opinion the course will not be changed for a long time. If it is, I hope it takes the French/German approach and not the Literary approach.

spurious

Evan93 wrote: »

In my opinion the course will not be changed for a long time.

Reform of the Irish syllabus is at quite an advanced stage.

grrrrrrrrrr

Evan93 wrote: »

I completely agree with this. People should have the choice to do it or not. After we leave secondary school we will never use it again except for a small number of people. You may say, oh you might never use history again. What I would say is, you were given the choice to do history,no one else but yourself made that choice and it's your own tough luck if you did not like the subject. We were never ever given the choice to do Irish, it was forced upon us. Poetry and literature were forced upon us,essays and grammer.

The likes of English and Maths are a nessecity. We will need these in our future lives. Maybe not Shakespeare or Wuthering Heights. However, we will need a reasonable grasp of the language as we will be using it everyday. We will not be using Irish. For maths, it develops our aritmithic skills and helps us to think logically.


As we can see, Irish is unessential,irrelevant and a waste of time. It has no purpose to our lives as other subjects have.

Also, I have been learning Irish from about 5 years of age. Over this amount of time it would be expected that I would be fluent. Yes, it didn't take me more than 5 years to speak english fluently. However, I am not fluent in Irish, why is this? Well, now it comes down to the teaching. The teaching is of an older time, not our time. Saying this, I have been learning French for 4 years and my French is drastically better than my Irish.

At the end of the day, it's compulsory and we have to get on with it. Unfair? Yes. Something to get angry over? No.

In my opinion the course will not be changed for a long time. If it is, I hope it takes the French/German approach and not the Literary approach.

Must agree really!!

grrrrrrrrrr

spurious wrote: »

Reform of the Irish syllabus is at quite an advanced stage.

Well i'd hardly call adding in a grammar section at JC reforming being at an advanced stage!

Maybe im just being ignorant tho and am not fully aware of what has is changing! but to me it seems like nothing has changed and it is rather annoying!!

Iwasfrozen

spurious wrote: »

Reform of the Irish syllabus is at quite an advanced stage.

The thing is, it shouldn't be reformed. It should be scrapped.

Or at least made optional for those who enjoy wasting their time.

Fad

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Well i'd hardly call adding in a grammar section at JC reforming being at an advanced stage!

Maybe im just being ignorant tho and am not fully aware of what has is changing! but to me it seems like nothing has changed and it is rather annoying!!

You are

In the next 2 or 3 years the oral will worth 40% of the overall mark and I presume the marks going for listening will remain the same. So the actual written paper will be worth a lot less (And chunks of the literature course will probably be removed to allow for more focusing on spoken Irish)

grrrrrrrrrr

Fad wrote: »

You are

In the next 2 or 3 years the oral will worth 40% of the overall mark and I presume the marks going for listening will remain the same. So the actual written paper will be worth a lot less (And chunks of the literature course will probably be removed to allow for more focusing on spoken Irish)

Everyone keeps saying about "tir gan teanga tir gan anam"!

but what about "beatha teanga e a labhairt"!

in french or german it makes sense to have letter writing and reaction essays! they are practicle, but to say "oh make EVERYONE do irish and they wont have to learn off as many stories is a bit of a joke really llike. i can appreciate at least they are doing something but still it really isnt enough.

the gov needs to do what they did with the budget: catch it by the balls, do what they need to do(make it an option) and people will thank them in time to come cause they know its the right thing to do!!

Mayoegian

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Everyone keeps saying about "tir gan teanga tir gan anam"!

but what about "beatha teanga e a labhairt"!

in french or german it makes sense to have letter writing and reaction essays! they are practicle, but to say "oh make EVERYONE do irish and they wont have to learn off as many stories is a bit of a joke really llike. i can appreciate at least they are doing something but still it really isnt enough.

the gov needs to do what they did with the budget: catch it by the balls, do what they need to do(make it an option) and people will thank them in time to come cause they know its the right thing to do!!

That was only mentioned once on this thread-by me:)

Also, only people who don't like the language will be thanking the Government if they make it optional. The amount of people who would drop it would be phenominal-the language would be dead and buried. Even if people do have a liking for Irish and they get the chance to drop it-of course they will! Irish can be a difficult subject to achieve a high grade on-they would take up an easier subject. So this rubbish about 'people who like Irish will keep it on' is nonsense-they will give it up to do an easier subject. The language would be doomed.

spurious

It costs money to do what needs to be done (and not just in Irish), so I don't fancy our chances at the moment.

grrrrrrrrrr

Mayoegian wrote: »

That was only mentioned once on this thread-by me:)

Also, only people who don't like the language will be thanking the Government if they make it optional. The amount of people who would drop it would be phenominal-the language would be dead and buried. Even if people do have a liking for Irish and they get the chance to drop it-of course they will! Irish can be a difficult subject to achieve a high grade on-they would take up an easier subject. So this rubbish about 'people who like Irish will keep it on' is nonsense-they will give it up to do an easier subject. The language would be doomed.

Yes but ive heard that pharse so many times before, as im sure many have. everyone prob has it learned off for aistes anyway!!

but what is the point in irish. just give your reasons in bullet point format with a small explaination. ill do the same later and we'll see which side out weighs the other!!

grrrrrrrrrr

spurious wrote: »

It costs money to do what needs to be done (and not just in Irish), so I don't fancy our chances at the moment.

Ya but even when we had money there was nothing done!! the gov could be spending money on alot worse things than the education of the children, the future!!

spurious

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ya but even when we had money there was nothing done!! the gov could be spending money on alot worse things than the education of the children, the future!!

You're singing my song.
In the 'boom' years special needs classes got bigger, budgets got smaller.
Fair enough I suppose sure the FF developer mates needed the money more I'm sure.

grrrrrrrrrr

spurious wrote: »

You're singing my song.
In the 'boom' years special needs classes got bigger, budgets got smaller.
Fair enough I suppose sure the FF developer mates needed the money more I'm sure.

TBH i wouldnt be too hard on FF. FG dont seem to have too many ideas on the matter!

FF just seem to be trying to keep the issue hush hush and not get into the debate!!

grrrrrrrrrr

gemxpink wrote: »

Um, yes you would. Hypothetically, regardless of whether or not it is compulsory you would still need it if the school you were teaching in offered it.

If Irish is to be optional then English should be too. English can be a pain in the backside a lot of the time, more than Irish.

but english is essential in every part of everyday life!!
Do irish like french or german. you can take it up in 1st year or not....


Amnt i debating with you gemxpink over fees aswel on the other thread?? ha

they could cut out irish to pay for your mocks... sorry bad form

grrrrrrrrrr

gemxpink wrote: »

But poetry isn't! Reform Irish AND English, cut the crap and just make us write essays etc. So much easier.

Haha yeah, looks like its just you and me on kiddo! Nah I love Irish, favourite subject! Cutting out English would be fabulous. I memorized all of Yeats's poetry for the mocks and I can't get it out of my head

Well i like the poetry cause it makes you look at things in dif ways! like the same way with doing Billy Elliot although it can be so annoying, when i watch films now its hard to turn off besides looking at the dif techs used by the director! but i like having that kind of thinking!!


Wasnt someone saying on a dif thread that you were mentioned in a paper for giving out the mock papers?? haha

unknown13

The ciriculam is a bit of joke. They should make the listening worth about 5%, the oral worth about 55% and written about 40%, it makes absolutely no sense that most marks for a language come from a written paper. You are not going to communicate a language by writing it.

grrrrrrrrrr

unknown13 wrote: »

The ciriculam is a bit of joke. They should make the listening worth about 5%, the oral worth about 55% and written about 40%, it makes absolutely no sense that most marks for a language come from a written paper. You are not going to communicate a language by writing it.

here here, but you might communicate french or german but DEF not irish!! you'd hardly speak irish as it is!

grrrrrrrrrr

just thought id let ye know i was watching a report on BBC a while back and they had some interesting facts about the number of school children in dif european countries learning forgein lanuages

germany and france had 100% of school children learning a forgein lanuage (any coincidence that they have the biggest economies??)

England had somewhere in the region of 10 to 15% (i dont have the exact figures but in that ball park!!)

Ireland was just over 20%.

now if you replaced irish with german wouldnt it make alot more sense??

Grindylow

Personally, I don't think it should be made optional.
It remains part of the Irish culture, and will remain so.
Saying that, I do think that the course should be redone.
Nothing that I am learning is relevant to speaking Irish.
When will I need to be able to quote Poetry, Stories, and Plays?
Never.

Junco Partner

keep it compulsory but teach it like french get rid of prose and poetry thats grand in english but we're fluent in that

grrrrrrrrrr

Noel2k9 wrote: »

Personally, I don't think it should be made optional.
It remains part of the Irish culture, and will remain so.
Saying that, I do think that the course should be redone.
Nothing that I am learning is relevant to speaking Irish.
When will I need to be able to quote Poetry, Stories, and Plays?
Never.

keep it compulsory but teach it like french get rid of prose and poetry thats grand in english but we're fluent in that

Why make people do it tho??

Orlaladuck

As far as english goes, it is slightly necessary and it's been dumbed down enough as it is. I swear I've heard someone ask can they use text speak in an exam - how much simpler can we get really. A lot of people struggle with it but then again I'd say Double the figures struggle with irish and maths yet maths is logic whereas irish doesn't teach you anything really vital in everyday life.

I think it should be made optional as well as reformed to focus on the language itself rather than some bloody poetry written in the 5th centuary whinging about the english. The stair na gaeilge should be kept as big a pain it is though but I hate how the texts give tiny bullet points then you're expected to write 3/4 of a page from this?! Reform it someone please!

Mayoegian

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

TBH i wouldnt be too hard on FF. FG dont seem to have too many ideas on the matter!

FF just seem to be trying to keep the issue hush hush and not get into the debate!!

FG don't seem to have too many ideas on what matter? It wasn't clear from your post!

unknown13 wrote: »

The ciriculam is a bit of joke. They should make the listening worth about 5%, the oral worth about 55% and written about 40%, it makes absolutely no sense that most marks for a language come from a written paper. You are not going to communicate a language by writing it.

While I agree with what you're saying, 5% would not be enough. Aurals are a huge part of understanding the language, and it would merit a higher percentage than that!

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

just thought id let ye know i was watching a report on BBC a while back and they had some interesting facts about the number of school children in dif european countries learning forgein lanuages

germany and france had 100% of school children learning a forgein lanuage (any coincidence that they have the biggest economies??)

England had somewhere in the region of 10 to 15% (i dont have the exact figures but in that ball park!!)

Ireland was just over 20%.

now if you replaced irish with german wouldnt it make alot more sense??

To be honest, no it wouldn't. Are you seriously suggesting that learning a foreign language would expand our economy? France and Germany have a strong economy because they have a more better-planned government than we have, and a large and skilled population. We don't. Please give me a full explanation on how our economy would improve if we had another foreign language.

grrrrrrrrrr

Mayoegian wrote: »

To be honest, no it wouldn't. Are you seriously suggesting that learning a foreign language would expand our economy? France and Germany have a strong economy because they have a more better-planned government than we have, and a large and skilled population. We don't. Please give me a full explanation on how our economy would improve if we had another foreign language.

Im not saying it would make us a super power or anything but it would have to help?? like what benefit is there is learning irish?!?!

Oh we can keep a lanuage alive. its like dating a girl in a coma, you dont really want to leave her cause she could be dead anyday but its pointless going out with her cause your not getting anything out of it!! its pointless!!!

Mayoegian

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Im not saying it would make us a super power or anything but it would have to help?? like what benefit is there is learning irish?!?!

Oh we can keep a lanuage alive. its like dating a girl in a coma, you dont really want to leave her cause she could be dead anyday but its pointless going out with her cause your not getting anything out of it!! its pointless!!!

Ok, in what way-please explain.

grrrrrrrrrr

Mayoegian wrote: »

Ok, in what way-please explain.

well surely it would make it easier for irish companies to communicate with forgein companies?

Whats that sayin about the lanuage of the buyer is the lanuage you should use!!


Why irish?

grrrrrrrrrr

Mayoegian wrote: »

FG don't seem to have too many ideas on what matter? It wasn't clear from your post!

I just havent heard any FG politician with strong views on this topic!
I read the papers a fair bit and cant recall any mandates or whatever on the matter

Mayoegian

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

well surely it would make it easier for irish companies to communicate with forgein companies?

Whats that sayin about the lanuage of the buyer is the lanuage you should use!!


Why irish?

That's complete nonsense! You do realise that foreign companies have english-speaking employees as well, don't you? How else would the communicate with England, the US etc.? My friend goes to school over in England, and they only learn one language, excluding English, and that's French. The last time I checked, I was doing French too! Your point is invalid.

grrrrrrrrrr

Mayoegian wrote: »

That's complete nonsense! You do realise that foreign companies have english-speaking employees as well, don't you? How else would the communicate with England, the US etc.? My friend goes to school over in England, and they only learn one language, excluding English, and that's French. The last time I checked, I was doing French too! Your point is invalid.

right so let me be the question asker so:


WHY KEEP IRISH ON??

how can it help with the overall betterment of the country?!?!?!!

Mayoegian

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

I just havent heard any FG politician with strong views on this topic!
I read the papers a fair bit and cant recall any mandates or whatever on the matter

Really? You mustn't be reading very much so. Enda Kenny, although he is an Irish teacher, has stated on numerous occasions that if he gets into government with Fine Gael, he will make Irish optional. He has re-itterated this on several occasions, even giving a full interview on it in 2005.

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

right so let me be the question asker so:


WHY KEEP IRISH ON??

how can it help with the overall betterment of the country?!?!?!!

Irish has a significant cultural and historical base in this country. The language itself can be tracked as a written source as far back as the 4th Century. It is a huge part of our heritage, and something we should keep a constant hold of.

Do you actually know the numbers of Irish students who go to Gaeltachtaí and Irish colleges annually? 26,000 students. 46 colleges nationwide accommodate these students. Can you imagine the mass unemployment that would occur if Irish was made optional? These colleges would on the mostpart close down. The revenue created by the colleges and influx of students every Summer, which has benefited local communities would be next to nothing. These communities are in already peripheral areas, and they are only kept alive by the money created locally. There would be a spiral decline of basic services. It would be in effect, disastrous.

You say the language has no purpose, and some say many people don't even care about it. Explain this: 800,000 people daily tune into TG4, and up to 15% of people listen to RnaG. Doesn't seem too unpopular now. TG4 employs up to 400 people directly and indirectly. The media has a huge stronghold on the Irish language. As well as this, 60,000 people speak Irish every day.

Irish is not an unknown language internationally either. In North America, Australia and many parts of Britain, there are Irish language groups, where Irish thrives. The language is far from dead.

Irish is a part of our identity, whether you acknowledge that or not. It has been regarded as an official language of the E.U. since 2005. It has a base for improvements in Secondary School, and I agree that a reform is needed. However, Spurious has already stated it is in the process of being reformed and this is continuing. The fact remains, that if we make Irish optional, an overwhelming majority of students will drop it. Even if they like the Irish language, they will more than likely play 'the points game' and give the extra time to an easier subject. The language would be dead.

annieee

If a student dislikes Irish and does badly in Irish for approx 10 years up until Jnr Cert I cannot see how forcing them to do another 2 years can be of any benifit to them or the language.

Elessar

Mayoegian wrote: »

Irish is a part of our identity, whether you acknowledge that or not. It has been regarded as an official language of the E.U. since 2005. It has a base for improvements in Secondary School, and I agree that a reform is needed. However, Spurious has already stated it is in the process of being reformed and this is continuing. The fact remains, that if we make Irish optional, an overwhelming majority of students will drop it. Even if they like the Irish language, they will more than likely play 'the points game' and give the extra time to an easier subject. The language would be dead.

This is a terrible argument. The language would never be dead. Just look at the figures you quoted yourself on TG4 and RnaG. Lots of people still like it. Most of these people would be people who would have chosen it in school given the option - I don't know a single person who hated Irish that now watches TG4 or listens to Irish radio or does anything remotely Irish related. Clearly, on a national level, there will always be an interest in the Irish language.

So why force kids to learn it? The "language would be dead" argument is mute. Even if it wasn't, that is no reason to force it on the JC and LC syllabus for everyone. It has no purpose outside those few who need it for college, or those who genuinely want to learn it. Traditionalism cannot be used as brute force argument.

annieee

Mayoegian wrote: »

Irish has a significant cultural and historical base in this country. The language itself can be tracked as a written source as far back as the 4th Century. It is a huge part of our heritage, and something we should keep a constant hold of.

Being honest I could care less. I find it disrespectful when people say 'our heritage' as I assume it means you and your smuggly like minded friends and in fact precludes me from ownership of whatever it means to be Irish.

If you like the language good. I do not. I would prefer science and technology classes in it's place. I would prefer children to taught how to code simple computer languages. I would prefer children to be taught ho to operate media technologies and use them for creative purporses. Irish has no bearing on my adult working/social life. I think schools should not be engaged in the process of feeding people doctrine. Give children the facts and prepare them for the world they are going to be entering.

If you believe strongly in Irish you can opt to pursue it to LC or you can pay for outside tuition but you should not be allowed to limit my areas of excellence based on your idea of what is 'our heritage'.