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Irish Should be compulsory?? WHAT YOU THINK?

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    #32
    DaveyDave
    Registered Users Posts: 6,243 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    I think people should be given the choice on if they want to do it or not.

    Personally, I couldn't give a damn that it's our native language when I don't speak it and I have no use for it.

    My time would be better spent doing something else, like Technology. I could easily get a high grade in higher level technology, which isn't taught at my school, yet I struggle to get a pass in ordinary Irish.


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    #33
    Ash_M
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭Ash_M


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I can see your point, but at the end of the day you are agreeing with a system that takes away a persons right to choose their own education, a system that forces one to learn a language that is already brain dead.

    Why should the Government force one to learn any language ? All subjects should be optional. Especially useless ones like Irish.


    Woot: 1,111th post !

    grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Yes but could you not do this if it was an optional subject??

    I'm forced to do English and Maths too, but there's a lot less complaints about that. And I know that they have their every day applications, but I actually use Gaeilge more than I'm asked to differentiate something or other, or for my views on Hamlet's internal struggle.

    Congrats on the 1,111 :P


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    #34
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    Ash_M wrote: »
    I read in Irish, and there are more people than you'd think who speak it pretty regularly. It's not in the best shape, but it's not a dead language.


    Yes but its not needed for life in general? Just a point. like let people go to the gaeltacht in the summer and do a course outside school if they want.... and have the OPTION of doing it in school


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    #35
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Yes but could you not do this if it was an optional subject??
    Certainly, If Ieish were an optional subject then only those interested in the language would do it. Those that are doing it would pick up alot of Irish, as the course demands.

    The rest of us, who choose not to learn this "teanga marbh" would be quite content with learning a few "foclóir" of the old "Idirlíon". Everyone would be happy.

    You will learn however grrrrrrrrrr that there are those in this world who would like to force their own belifes and culture onto others and will seek the law of the state to do so.


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    #36
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    Ash_M wrote: »
    I'm forced to do English and Maths too, but there's a lot less complaints about that. And I know that they have their every day applications, but I actually use Gaeilge more than I'm asked to differentiate something or other, or for my views on Hamlet's internal struggle.


    But its not about Hmlets struggle, its about being able to comprehen!!
    As for differentiation, there are topics on EVERY course that you may not use in your life!


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    #37
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Ash_M wrote: »
    I'm forced to do English and Maths too, but there's a lot less complaints about that. And I know that they have their every day applications, but I actually use Gaeilge more than I'm asked to differentiate something or other, or for my views on Hamlet's internal struggle.

    Congrats on the 1,111 :P
    Your case is not the case for every student in the country however, Ash. While you may have an everyday use of this language and indeed a love of it you must understand that there are those who do not. That is why I put to you a very simple question:

    Why must a person who has no use nor love of the Irish language learn it ?


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    #38
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You will learn however grrrrrrrrrr that there are those in this world who would like to force their own belifes and culture onto others and will seek the law of the state to do so.

    Just for your last point there i do concur and would like to draw your attention to the woman last week who brought the dept to court to ban the teaching of english in gaelscoileanna!! she won as far as i know but the schools must teach english to the kids at the parents request!!

    it was in one of the sunday papers recently but i cant find a link for it!!


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    #39
    Ash_M
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭Ash_M


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Your case is not the case for every student in the country however, Ash. While you may have an everyday use of this language and indeed a love of it you must understand that there are thos who do not. That is why I put to you a very simple question:

    Why must a person who has no use nor love of the Irish language learn it ?

    I understand that point, and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't mind too much if no subject was compulsory, it's just the never ending argument over it regarding Irish. The one thing I would say, is that if I hadn't been made do it up to JC, I'd probably have chosen not to, but now I'm thankful that I did because I just went and learnt the language itself.


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    #40
    Lawliet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,761 ✭✭✭Lawliet


    Even if Irish were made optional, plenty of people would still have to do it, if only to meet third level entry requirements.


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    #41
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Why must a person who has no use nor love of the Irish language learn it ?

    i agree but im sure that people will continue to use maths and english as another example of this!

    but im more on your side


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    #42
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    Lawliet wrote: »
    Even if Irish were made optional, plenty of people would still have to do it, if only to meet third level entry requirements.


    im sure it'd be a fraction of what is doing it today. only 6 of the 40 or so doing honours in my school are going for primary teaching!!

    That leaves 80 that dont need it!!


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    #43
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Ash_M wrote: »
    I understand that point, and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't mind too much if no subject was compulsory, it's just the never ending argument over it regarding Irish. The one thing I would say, is that if I hadn't been made do it up to JC, I'd probably have chosen not to, but now I'm thankful that I did because I just went and learnt the language itself.
    If the subject was optional you would still have the choice to learn it, it just wouldn't be forced on you.


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    #44
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Lawliet wrote: »
    Even if Irish were made optional, plenty of people would still have to do it, if only to meet third level entry requirements.
    No they wouldn't, Universities would be forced to drop the requirement due to the lack of numbers if Irish is dropped.

    Why must one learn Irish to enroll in a mathamatics course ?


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    #45
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    Ash_M wrote: »
    The one thing I would say, is that if I hadn't been made do it up to JC, I'd probably have chosen not to, but now I'm thankful that I did because I just went and learnt the language itself.

    you could say that if you didnt keep on business or french for jc you wouldnt have done them for LC but thats the risk you take when your are choosing subjects!!

    as in you dont expect every subject to be complusary till junior cert just so you can decide that you dont think its pointless.

    ok a conveluted point but try to understand me!!


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    #46
    Ash_M
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭Ash_M


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    If the subject was optional you would still have the choice to learn it, it just wouldn't be forced on you.

    What I mean is that I wouldn't have bothered if I hadn't had to do it, but I'm glad I did,


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    #47
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    No they wouldn't, Universities would be forced to drop the requirement due to the lack of numbers if Irish is dropped.

    Why must one learn Irish to enroll in a mathamatics course ?


    Here Here


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    #48
    Lawliet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,761 ✭✭✭Lawliet


    grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »
    im sure it'd be a fraction of what is doing it today. only 6 of the 40 or so doing honours in my school are going for primary teaching!!

    That leaves 80 that dont need it!!
    You're forgetting about NUIs they require Irish as well as a third language. And then there's collages that accept Irish instead of a foreign language like French or German.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    No they wouldn't, Universities would be forced to drop the requirement due to the lack of numbers if Irish is dropped.
    Wishful thinking but I doubt the majority of people would risk dropping Irish if it meant they might not be able to apply to their dream collage. I'd image most would keep Irish on to keep their options open.


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    #49
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Ash_M wrote: »
    What I mean is that I wouldn't have bothered if I hadn't had to do it, but I'm glad I did,
    That may be your case, but why do you think Irish must be mandatory for the 99% of people who don't like it ?


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    #50
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    Just set up a poll there! its 100% for its optioniliasation!! well there is only one vote! ha


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    #51
    Ash_M
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭Ash_M


    Reforming it would be fantastic.


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    #52
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Lawliet wrote: »
    Wishful thinking but I doubt the majority of people would risk dropping Irish if it meant they might not be able to apply to their dream collage. I'd image most would keep Irish on to keep their options open.
    Only the NUI's require a pass in Irish, however once the majority of people have dropped Irish, which they will, the NUI's will be forced to cut the requirement or lose out on students.


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    #53
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    Lawliet wrote: »
    You're forgetting about NUIs they require Irish as well as a third language. And then there's collages that accept Irish instead of a foreign language like French or German.


    Wishful thinking but I doubt the majority of people would risk dropping Irish if it meant they might not be able to apply to their dream collage. I'd image most would keep Irish on to keep their options open.


    in fairness i dont think this would be the case! try explain to your employer why your employer why you chose a pointless subject over one which may add to you career!!

    And im sure if the NUI's wanted to stay open they'd revoke this irish needed rule!!


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    #54
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    5 votes, 60:40, thats the majority of the crountry spoken for!! haha!

    Will i e mail this link to Batt o keefe??


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    #55
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »
    5 votes, 60:40, thats the majority of the crountry spoken for!! haha!

    Will i e mail this link to Batt o keefe??
    Yes, please do.


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    #56
    Lawliet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,761 ✭✭✭Lawliet


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Only the NUI's require a pass in Irish, however once the majority of people have dropped Irish, which they will, the NUI's will be forced to cut the requirement or lose out on students.
    Or more likely, students will think ahead and check whether their course/ collage needs Irish and if it does they'll keep it on. Sure plenty of students will drop Irish, but that'll just free up places for the students who didn't drop Irish.

    Besides even if Irish isn't technically compulsory, schools can still require their students to do it.
    grrrrrrrrrr wrote:
    in fairness i dont think this would be the case! try explain to your employer why your employer why you chose a pointless subject over one which may add to you career!!
    Sorry, what?
    And im sure if the NUI's wanted to stay open they'd revoke this irish needed rule!!
    Yeah...I really can't see the NUIs closing die to lack of demand any time soon.


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    #57
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    Lawliet wrote: »
    Or more likely, students will think ahead and check whether their course/ collage needs Irish and if it does they'll keep it on. Sure plenty of students will drop Irish, but that'll just free up places for the students who didn't drop Irish.

    Besides even if Irish isn't technically compulsory, schools can still require their students to do it.


    Sorry, what?


    Yeah...I really can't see the NUIs closing die to lack of demand any time soon.

    if you did pick irish as an option it would mean you didnt do physics or geography etc! in your interview if an employer asked you why did you chose irish over another more benefiticial subject what would be your reply?


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    #58
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Yes, please do.


    If a few more people vote then i will send it on to batt and see if i get a reply! just for the fun of it!! haha!

    Will need a few more numbers tho!!


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    #59
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »
    If a few more people vote then i will send it on to batt and see if i get a reply! just for the fun of it!! haha!

    Will need a few more numbers tho!!
    If you wait for a few days you'll get a realistic result, although tbh, I don't think you'll get a response from his Lordship himself rather a reply from one of the underlings.


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    #60
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    If you wait for a few days you'll get a realistic result, although tbh, I don't think you'll get a response from his Lordship himself rather a reply from one of the underlings.


    Id nearly have more respect in one of his underlings... have met him before and i wouldnt vote for him really like.

    he's prob rather dizzy too with all his U-turns, snow closures, college fees etc!! although i know im just being harsh!!

    but in fairness to hanafin she seemed to be more of a mininster for the students!!

    Anyway off point! more people comment and vote and ill e mail him say on friday or so and we'll see how it goes!!


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    #61
    Lawliet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,761 ✭✭✭Lawliet


    grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »
    if you did pick irish as an option it would mean you didnt do physics or geography etc! in your interview if an employer asked you why did you chose irish over another more benefiticial subject what would be your reply?
    Simple, I'd just say that in order to get on to my course I was required to have Irish. But it seems unlikely that an employer would be asking someone about their leaving cert subject choices, provided they have the relevant qualifications for the job.


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