Irish Should be compulsory?? WHAT YOU THINK?

Ash_M

I'd be very surprised if someone asked why you did a certain subject in an interview. The primary reasons people do subjects are that they're needed for a course or future career, or that they play to their strengths and will get them the points. In an interview you've most likely gotten past all that and have your qualifications.

Iwasfrozen

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Id nearly have more respect in one of his underlings... have met him before and i wouldnt vote for him really like.

he's prob rather dizzy too with all his U-turns, snow closures, college fees etc!! although i know im just being harsh!!

I also met him during the offical opening of our school extension, tbh I didn't like him one bit and he wasn't very charasmatic.

I'm old enough to vote now but no way in hell would I vote for him, especially after he tried to introduce third level fees.

Elessar

No it shouldn't. There is no reason other than patriotism that it is compulsory. It is a meaningless language in this world and, specifically, in this country. It has no general purpose and should never be forced upon any young person.

I can't see a logical reason why it's not optional. Let those who want to learn it learn it, and those who don't, do something else. Something that will be useful that they will be interested in. What's wrong with that? Everyones happy.

Looking back, Irish was the biggest waste of my time as a school student. Thousands of hours spent forcibly learning something I haven't the slightest interest in, can't speak, don't want to speak, have no interest in whatsoever. That time could have been spent doing another subject I had at least a semblance of attraction to. I resent having been forced to learn it.

grrrrrrrrrr

Elessar wrote: »

No it shouldn't. There is no reason other than patriotism that it is compulsory. It is a meaningless language in this world and, specifically, in this country. It has no general purpose and should never be forced upon any young person.

I can't see a logical reason why it's not optional. Let those who want to learn it learn it, and those who don't, do something else. Something that will be useful that they will be interested in. What's wrong with that? Everyones happy.

Looking back, Irish was the biggest waste of my time as a school student. Thousands of hours spent forcibly learning something I haven't the slightest interest in, can't speak, don't want to speak, have no interest in whatsoever. That time could have been spent doing another subject I had at least a semblance of attraction to. I resent having been forced to learn it.

Here here, Was at the gym with three of the lads their and waas telling them about this and they all agreed it should be an option! id hardly say it'd be as radicle iintroducing the HPAT!

There would just be a handful of hippies that would reject it!

Ill ask Batt his opinion on the matter at the end of the week! he'll prob ignore me but ive an aunt working for the dept and ill ask her what she makes of the whole thing.

at the end of the dayirish will be at least made an option in years to come. certainly before our grandkids anyway and hopefully for our kids!!

dambarude

It's been touted before-

I think it should be compulsory to Junior Cert, which should in turn have a compulsory oral. Instead of the unseen poetry and stories and all that which is studied at JC, one fairly easily understood, short novel would probably be better. But the bulk of the marks should be for oral and general language ability. And they need to do something about the "D'fhéach mé amach an fhuinneog agus chonaic mé timpiste" stories that everyone seems to write.

At LC it should probably be optional, or split into two courses- literature and language capability. I don't know how the practicalities of that would work though, i'd say it's unlikely to happen. If it stayed as once subject I think that once again, instead of studying a plethora of different stories and poems, as well as a novel/drama/autobiography/or more shortstories, it should be more confined.

grrrrrrrrrr

dambarude wrote: »

It's been touted before-

I think it should be compulsory to Junior Cert, which should in turn have a compulsory oral. Instead of the unseen poetry and stories and all that which is studied at JC, one fairly easily understood, short novel would probably be better. But the bulk of the marks should be for oral and general language ability. And they need to do something about the "D'fhéach mé amach an fhuinneog agus chonaic mé timpiste" stories that everyone seems to write.

At LC it should probably be optional, or split into two courses- literature and language capability. I don't know how the practicalities of that would work though, i'd say it's unlikely to happen. If it stayed as once subject I think that once again, instead of studying a plethora of different stories and poems, as well as a novel/drama/autobiography/or more shortstories, it should be more confined.

In my opinion, not that anyone asked, there are prob 100s of teachers and dept workers with very good plans, ideas, theories etc on how this could be implemented but they arent speaking out(loud eniugh)

I dono any teacher who likes the current system!

Dont forget to vote...

Geard

Ba chéart naire a bheith oraibh féin!!!! Téanga a throid ar sinsearach fa bhur gcoinne!!!! 800 bhlian!!!!!!!!!!!

Evan93

Elessar wrote: »

No it shouldn't. There is no reason other than patriotism that it is compulsory. It is a meaningless language in this world and, specifically, in this country. It has no general purpose and should never be forced upon any young person.

I can't see a logical reason why it's not optional. Let those who want to learn it learn it, and those who don't, do something else. Something that will be useful that they will be interested in. What's wrong with that? Everyones happy.

Looking back, Irish was the biggest waste of my time as a school student. Thousands of hours spent forcibly learning something I haven't the slightest interest in, can't speak, don't want to speak, have no interest in whatsoever. That time could have been spent doing another subject I had at least a semblance of attraction to. I resent having been forced to learn it.

I completely agree with this. People should have the choice to do it or not. After we leave secondary school we will never use it again except for a small number of people. You may say, oh you might never use history again. What I would say is, you were given the choice to do history,no one else but yourself made that choice and it's your own tough luck if you did not like the subject. We were never ever given the choice to do Irish, it was forced upon us. Poetry and literature were forced upon us,essays and grammer.

The likes of English and Maths are a nessecity. We will need these in our future lives. Maybe not Shakespeare or Wuthering Heights. However, we will need a reasonable grasp of the language as we will be using it everyday. We will not be using Irish. For maths, it develops our aritmithic skills and helps us to think logically.

As we can see, Irish is unessential,irrelevant and a waste of time. It has no purpose to our lives as other subjects have.

Also, I have been learning Irish from about 5 years of age. Over this amount of time it would be expected that I would be fluent. Yes, it didn't take me more than 5 years to speak english fluently. However, I am not fluent in Irish, why is this? Well, now it comes down to the teaching. The teaching is of an older time, not our time. Saying this, I have been learning French for 4 years and my French is drastically better than my Irish.

At the end of the day, it's compulsory and we have to get on with it. Unfair? Yes. Something to get angry over? No.

In my opinion the course will not be changed for a long time. If it is, I hope it takes the French/German approach and not the Literary approach.

spurious

Evan93 wrote: »

In my opinion the course will not be changed for a long time.

Reform of the Irish syllabus is at quite an advanced stage.

grrrrrrrrrr

Evan93 wrote: »

I completely agree with this. People should have the choice to do it or not. After we leave secondary school we will never use it again except for a small number of people. You may say, oh you might never use history again. What I would say is, you were given the choice to do history,no one else but yourself made that choice and it's your own tough luck if you did not like the subject. We were never ever given the choice to do Irish, it was forced upon us. Poetry and literature were forced upon us,essays and grammer.

The likes of English and Maths are a nessecity. We will need these in our future lives. Maybe not Shakespeare or Wuthering Heights. However, we will need a reasonable grasp of the language as we will be using it everyday. We will not be using Irish. For maths, it develops our aritmithic skills and helps us to think logically.


As we can see, Irish is unessential,irrelevant and a waste of time. It has no purpose to our lives as other subjects have.

Also, I have been learning Irish from about 5 years of age. Over this amount of time it would be expected that I would be fluent. Yes, it didn't take me more than 5 years to speak english fluently. However, I am not fluent in Irish, why is this? Well, now it comes down to the teaching. The teaching is of an older time, not our time. Saying this, I have been learning French for 4 years and my French is drastically better than my Irish.

At the end of the day, it's compulsory and we have to get on with it. Unfair? Yes. Something to get angry over? No.

In my opinion the course will not be changed for a long time. If it is, I hope it takes the French/German approach and not the Literary approach.

Must agree really!!

grrrrrrrrrr

spurious wrote: »

Reform of the Irish syllabus is at quite an advanced stage.

Well i'd hardly call adding in a grammar section at JC reforming being at an advanced stage!

Maybe im just being ignorant tho and am not fully aware of what has is changing! but to me it seems like nothing has changed and it is rather annoying!!

Iwasfrozen

spurious wrote: »

Reform of the Irish syllabus is at quite an advanced stage.

The thing is, it shouldn't be reformed. It should be scrapped.

Or at least made optional for those who enjoy wasting their time.

Fad

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Well i'd hardly call adding in a grammar section at JC reforming being at an advanced stage!

Maybe im just being ignorant tho and am not fully aware of what has is changing! but to me it seems like nothing has changed and it is rather annoying!!

You are

In the next 2 or 3 years the oral will worth 40% of the overall mark and I presume the marks going for listening will remain the same. So the actual written paper will be worth a lot less (And chunks of the literature course will probably be removed to allow for more focusing on spoken Irish)

grrrrrrrrrr

Fad wrote: »

You are

In the next 2 or 3 years the oral will worth 40% of the overall mark and I presume the marks going for listening will remain the same. So the actual written paper will be worth a lot less (And chunks of the literature course will probably be removed to allow for more focusing on spoken Irish)

Everyone keeps saying about "tir gan teanga tir gan anam"!

but what about "beatha teanga e a labhairt"!

in french or german it makes sense to have letter writing and reaction essays! they are practicle, but to say "oh make EVERYONE do irish and they wont have to learn off as many stories is a bit of a joke really llike. i can appreciate at least they are doing something but still it really isnt enough.

the gov needs to do what they did with the budget: catch it by the balls, do what they need to do(make it an option) and people will thank them in time to come cause they know its the right thing to do!!

Mayoegian

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Everyone keeps saying about "tir gan teanga tir gan anam"!

but what about "beatha teanga e a labhairt"!

in french or german it makes sense to have letter writing and reaction essays! they are practicle, but to say "oh make EVERYONE do irish and they wont have to learn off as many stories is a bit of a joke really llike. i can appreciate at least they are doing something but still it really isnt enough.

the gov needs to do what they did with the budget: catch it by the balls, do what they need to do(make it an option) and people will thank them in time to come cause they know its the right thing to do!!

That was only mentioned once on this thread-by me:)

Also, only people who don't like the language will be thanking the Government if they make it optional. The amount of people who would drop it would be phenominal-the language would be dead and buried. Even if people do have a liking for Irish and they get the chance to drop it-of course they will! Irish can be a difficult subject to achieve a high grade on-they would take up an easier subject. So this rubbish about 'people who like Irish will keep it on' is nonsense-they will give it up to do an easier subject. The language would be doomed.

spurious

It costs money to do what needs to be done (and not just in Irish), so I don't fancy our chances at the moment.

grrrrrrrrrr

Mayoegian wrote: »

That was only mentioned once on this thread-by me:)

Also, only people who don't like the language will be thanking the Government if they make it optional. The amount of people who would drop it would be phenominal-the language would be dead and buried. Even if people do have a liking for Irish and they get the chance to drop it-of course they will! Irish can be a difficult subject to achieve a high grade on-they would take up an easier subject. So this rubbish about 'people who like Irish will keep it on' is nonsense-they will give it up to do an easier subject. The language would be doomed.

Yes but ive heard that pharse so many times before, as im sure many have. everyone prob has it learned off for aistes anyway!!

but what is the point in irish. just give your reasons in bullet point format with a small explaination. ill do the same later and we'll see which side out weighs the other!!

grrrrrrrrrr

spurious wrote: »

It costs money to do what needs to be done (and not just in Irish), so I don't fancy our chances at the moment.

Ya but even when we had money there was nothing done!! the gov could be spending money on alot worse things than the education of the children, the future!!

spurious

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ya but even when we had money there was nothing done!! the gov could be spending money on alot worse things than the education of the children, the future!!

You're singing my song.
In the 'boom' years special needs classes got bigger, budgets got smaller.
Fair enough I suppose sure the FF developer mates needed the money more I'm sure.

grrrrrrrrrr

spurious wrote: »

You're singing my song.
In the 'boom' years special needs classes got bigger, budgets got smaller.
Fair enough I suppose sure the FF developer mates needed the money more I'm sure.

TBH i wouldnt be too hard on FF. FG dont seem to have too many ideas on the matter!

FF just seem to be trying to keep the issue hush hush and not get into the debate!!

grrrrrrrrrr

gemxpink wrote: »

Um, yes you would. Hypothetically, regardless of whether or not it is compulsory you would still need it if the school you were teaching in offered it.

If Irish is to be optional then English should be too. English can be a pain in the backside a lot of the time, more than Irish.

but english is essential in every part of everyday life!!
Do irish like french or german. you can take it up in 1st year or not....


Amnt i debating with you gemxpink over fees aswel on the other thread?? ha

they could cut out irish to pay for your mocks... sorry bad form

grrrrrrrrrr

gemxpink wrote: »

But poetry isn't! Reform Irish AND English, cut the crap and just make us write essays etc. So much easier.

Haha yeah, looks like its just you and me on kiddo! Nah I love Irish, favourite subject! Cutting out English would be fabulous. I memorized all of Yeats's poetry for the mocks and I can't get it out of my head

Well i like the poetry cause it makes you look at things in dif ways! like the same way with doing Billy Elliot although it can be so annoying, when i watch films now its hard to turn off besides looking at the dif techs used by the director! but i like having that kind of thinking!!


Wasnt someone saying on a dif thread that you were mentioned in a paper for giving out the mock papers?? haha

unknown13

The ciriculam is a bit of joke. They should make the listening worth about 5%, the oral worth about 55% and written about 40%, it makes absolutely no sense that most marks for a language come from a written paper. You are not going to communicate a language by writing it.

grrrrrrrrrr

unknown13 wrote: »

The ciriculam is a bit of joke. They should make the listening worth about 5%, the oral worth about 55% and written about 40%, it makes absolutely no sense that most marks for a language come from a written paper. You are not going to communicate a language by writing it.

here here, but you might communicate french or german but DEF not irish!! you'd hardly speak irish as it is!

grrrrrrrrrr

just thought id let ye know i was watching a report on BBC a while back and they had some interesting facts about the number of school children in dif european countries learning forgein lanuages

germany and france had 100% of school children learning a forgein lanuage (any coincidence that they have the biggest economies??)

England had somewhere in the region of 10 to 15% (i dont have the exact figures but in that ball park!!)

Ireland was just over 20%.

now if you replaced irish with german wouldnt it make alot more sense??

Grindylow

Personally, I don't think it should be made optional.
It remains part of the Irish culture, and will remain so.
Saying that, I do think that the course should be redone.
Nothing that I am learning is relevant to speaking Irish.
When will I need to be able to quote Poetry, Stories, and Plays?
Never.

Junco Partner

keep it compulsory but teach it like french get rid of prose and poetry thats grand in english but we're fluent in that

grrrrrrrrrr

Noel2k9 wrote: »

Personally, I don't think it should be made optional.
It remains part of the Irish culture, and will remain so.
Saying that, I do think that the course should be redone.
Nothing that I am learning is relevant to speaking Irish.
When will I need to be able to quote Poetry, Stories, and Plays?
Never.

keep it compulsory but teach it like french get rid of prose and poetry thats grand in english but we're fluent in that

Why make people do it tho??

Orlaladuck

As far as english goes, it is slightly necessary and it's been dumbed down enough as it is. I swear I've heard someone ask can they use text speak in an exam - how much simpler can we get really. A lot of people struggle with it but then again I'd say Double the figures struggle with irish and maths yet maths is logic whereas irish doesn't teach you anything really vital in everyday life.

I think it should be made optional as well as reformed to focus on the language itself rather than some bloody poetry written in the 5th centuary whinging about the english. The stair na gaeilge should be kept as big a pain it is though but I hate how the texts give tiny bullet points then you're expected to write 3/4 of a page from this?! Reform it someone please!

Mayoegian

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

TBH i wouldnt be too hard on FF. FG dont seem to have too many ideas on the matter!

FF just seem to be trying to keep the issue hush hush and not get into the debate!!

FG don't seem to have too many ideas on what matter? It wasn't clear from your post!

unknown13 wrote: »

The ciriculam is a bit of joke. They should make the listening worth about 5%, the oral worth about 55% and written about 40%, it makes absolutely no sense that most marks for a language come from a written paper. You are not going to communicate a language by writing it.

While I agree with what you're saying, 5% would not be enough. Aurals are a huge part of understanding the language, and it would merit a higher percentage than that!

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

just thought id let ye know i was watching a report on BBC a while back and they had some interesting facts about the number of school children in dif european countries learning forgein lanuages

germany and france had 100% of school children learning a forgein lanuage (any coincidence that they have the biggest economies??)

England had somewhere in the region of 10 to 15% (i dont have the exact figures but in that ball park!!)

Ireland was just over 20%.

now if you replaced irish with german wouldnt it make alot more sense??

To be honest, no it wouldn't. Are you seriously suggesting that learning a foreign language would expand our economy? France and Germany have a strong economy because they have a more better-planned government than we have, and a large and skilled population. We don't. Please give me a full explanation on how our economy would improve if we had another foreign language.