Irish Should be compulsory?? WHAT YOU THINK?

grrrrrrrrrr

Mayoegian wrote: »

To be honest, no it wouldn't. Are you seriously suggesting that learning a foreign language would expand our economy? France and Germany have a strong economy because they have a more better-planned government than we have, and a large and skilled population. We don't. Please give me a full explanation on how our economy would improve if we had another foreign language.

Im not saying it would make us a super power or anything but it would have to help?? like what benefit is there is learning irish?!?!

Oh we can keep a lanuage alive. its like dating a girl in a coma, you dont really want to leave her cause she could be dead anyday but its pointless going out with her cause your not getting anything out of it!! its pointless!!!

Mayoegian

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Im not saying it would make us a super power or anything but it would have to help?? like what benefit is there is learning irish?!?!

Oh we can keep a lanuage alive. its like dating a girl in a coma, you dont really want to leave her cause she could be dead anyday but its pointless going out with her cause your not getting anything out of it!! its pointless!!!

Ok, in what way-please explain.

grrrrrrrrrr

Mayoegian wrote: »

Ok, in what way-please explain.

well surely it would make it easier for irish companies to communicate with forgein companies?

Whats that sayin about the lanuage of the buyer is the lanuage you should use!!


Why irish?

grrrrrrrrrr

Mayoegian wrote: »

FG don't seem to have too many ideas on what matter? It wasn't clear from your post!

I just havent heard any FG politician with strong views on this topic!
I read the papers a fair bit and cant recall any mandates or whatever on the matter

Mayoegian

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

well surely it would make it easier for irish companies to communicate with forgein companies?

Whats that sayin about the lanuage of the buyer is the lanuage you should use!!


Why irish?

That's complete nonsense! You do realise that foreign companies have english-speaking employees as well, don't you? How else would the communicate with England, the US etc.? My friend goes to school over in England, and they only learn one language, excluding English, and that's French. The last time I checked, I was doing French too! Your point is invalid.

grrrrrrrrrr

Mayoegian wrote: »

That's complete nonsense! You do realise that foreign companies have english-speaking employees as well, don't you? How else would the communicate with England, the US etc.? My friend goes to school over in England, and they only learn one language, excluding English, and that's French. The last time I checked, I was doing French too! Your point is invalid.

right so let me be the question asker so:


WHY KEEP IRISH ON??

how can it help with the overall betterment of the country?!?!?!!

Mayoegian

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

I just havent heard any FG politician with strong views on this topic!
I read the papers a fair bit and cant recall any mandates or whatever on the matter

Really? You mustn't be reading very much so. Enda Kenny, although he is an Irish teacher, has stated on numerous occasions that if he gets into government with Fine Gael, he will make Irish optional. He has re-itterated this on several occasions, even giving a full interview on it in 2005.

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

right so let me be the question asker so:


WHY KEEP IRISH ON??

how can it help with the overall betterment of the country?!?!?!!

Irish has a significant cultural and historical base in this country. The language itself can be tracked as a written source as far back as the 4th Century. It is a huge part of our heritage, and something we should keep a constant hold of.

Do you actually know the numbers of Irish students who go to Gaeltachtaí and Irish colleges annually? 26,000 students. 46 colleges nationwide accommodate these students. Can you imagine the mass unemployment that would occur if Irish was made optional? These colleges would on the mostpart close down. The revenue created by the colleges and influx of students every Summer, which has benefited local communities would be next to nothing. These communities are in already peripheral areas, and they are only kept alive by the money created locally. There would be a spiral decline of basic services. It would be in effect, disastrous.

You say the language has no purpose, and some say many people don't even care about it. Explain this: 800,000 people daily tune into TG4, and up to 15% of people listen to RnaG. Doesn't seem too unpopular now. TG4 employs up to 400 people directly and indirectly. The media has a huge stronghold on the Irish language. As well as this, 60,000 people speak Irish every day.

Irish is not an unknown language internationally either. In North America, Australia and many parts of Britain, there are Irish language groups, where Irish thrives. The language is far from dead.

Irish is a part of our identity, whether you acknowledge that or not. It has been regarded as an official language of the E.U. since 2005. It has a base for improvements in Secondary School, and I agree that a reform is needed. However, Spurious has already stated it is in the process of being reformed and this is continuing. The fact remains, that if we make Irish optional, an overwhelming majority of students will drop it. Even if they like the Irish language, they will more than likely play 'the points game' and give the extra time to an easier subject. The language would be dead.

annieee

If a student dislikes Irish and does badly in Irish for approx 10 years up until Jnr Cert I cannot see how forcing them to do another 2 years can be of any benifit to them or the language.

Elessar

Mayoegian wrote: »

Irish is a part of our identity, whether you acknowledge that or not. It has been regarded as an official language of the E.U. since 2005. It has a base for improvements in Secondary School, and I agree that a reform is needed. However, Spurious has already stated it is in the process of being reformed and this is continuing. The fact remains, that if we make Irish optional, an overwhelming majority of students will drop it. Even if they like the Irish language, they will more than likely play 'the points game' and give the extra time to an easier subject. The language would be dead.

This is a terrible argument. The language would never be dead. Just look at the figures you quoted yourself on TG4 and RnaG. Lots of people still like it. Most of these people would be people who would have chosen it in school given the option - I don't know a single person who hated Irish that now watches TG4 or listens to Irish radio or does anything remotely Irish related. Clearly, on a national level, there will always be an interest in the Irish language.

So why force kids to learn it? The "language would be dead" argument is mute. Even if it wasn't, that is no reason to force it on the JC and LC syllabus for everyone. It has no purpose outside those few who need it for college, or those who genuinely want to learn it. Traditionalism cannot be used as brute force argument.

annieee

Mayoegian wrote: »

Irish has a significant cultural and historical base in this country. The language itself can be tracked as a written source as far back as the 4th Century. It is a huge part of our heritage, and something we should keep a constant hold of.

Being honest I could care less. I find it disrespectful when people say 'our heritage' as I assume it means you and your smuggly like minded friends and in fact precludes me from ownership of whatever it means to be Irish.

If you like the language good. I do not. I would prefer science and technology classes in it's place. I would prefer children to taught how to code simple computer languages. I would prefer children to be taught ho to operate media technologies and use them for creative purporses. Irish has no bearing on my adult working/social life. I think schools should not be engaged in the process of feeding people doctrine. Give children the facts and prepare them for the world they are going to be entering.

If you believe strongly in Irish you can opt to pursue it to LC or you can pay for outside tuition but you should not be allowed to limit my areas of excellence based on your idea of what is 'our heritage'.

Mayoegian

annieee wrote: »

Being honest I could care less. I find it disrespectful when people say 'our heritage' as I assume it means you and your smuggly like minded friends and in fact precludes me from ownership of whatever it means to be Irish.

My smuggly minded friends? Resorting to childish taunts like that undermines your argument.

annieee wrote: »

If you like the language good. I do not. I would prefer science and technology classes in it's place. I would prefer children to taught how to code simple computer languages. I would prefer children to be taught ho to operate media technologies and use them for creative purporses. Irish has no bearing on my adult working/social life. I think schools should not be engaged in the process of feeding people doctrine. Give children the facts and prepare them for the world they are going to be entering.

What's stopping them from doing technology etc.? And as for 'giving children facts', you could use that same 'logic' for English.

annieee wrote: »

If you believe strongly in Irish you can opt to pursue it to LC or you can pay for outside tuition but you should not be allowed to limit my areas of excellence based on your idea of what is 'our heritage'.

It's not simply an idea of heritage. FACT: It is our heritage. Like it or loathe it, the Irish language is part of Ireland's heritage, regardless of whether people have a liking for it or not.

Evan93

You say the language has no purpose, and some say many people don't even care about it. Explain this: 800,000 people daily tune into TG4, and up to 15% of people listen to RnaG. Doesn't seem too unpopular now. TG4 employs up to 400 people directly and indirectly. The media has a huge stronghold on the Irish language. As well as this, 60,000 people speak Irish every day.

Firstly, Where is you source?

Secondly, These people who tune into TG4 or RnaG do it out of their own free will. The do not do this because they are forced to do it. Why do we, us students, have to be forced to learn a dead language. That's what it is, a dead language, if it was not dead then why is there so much opposition to it? You say 60,000 people speak it on a daily basis,that's roughly 1.2% of the population,of the Irish population who speak Irish everyday.
Ask yourself is 1.2% a big figure? No it isn't, it is miniscule.

There is no sense in forcefully teaching Irish. However, there is sense in making it optional.

Oh no, but people (you for example), will simply not have this. You will come out with all your national heritage nonsense and say Irish is a nessecity. I'm sorry to tell you it isn't. People should be given a choice. We are not given this choice and never will be given this choice beacsue of the small 1.2% of people who take pride in our heritage.

Get with the times, its now the twenty first century. We need to stop embracing our old traditions and open our eyes. Open our eyes so we can see that Irish is unessential and therefore we should be given a choice.

Mayoegian

Evan93 wrote: »

Firstly, Where is you source?

800,000 people tuning into TG4: http://www.tg4.ie/bearla/corp/culr.asp

14% of people tuning into Irish Radio daily:

http://www.tg4.ie/bearla/corp/culr.asp(p.13)

60,000 Irish speakers:

http://www.cso.ie/Census/census2006results/volume_9/volume_9_irish_language_entire_volume.pdf[/QUOTE]

Evan93 wrote: »

Secondly, These people who tune into TG4 or RnaG do it out of their own free will. The do not do this because they are forced to do it. Why do we, us students, have to be forced to learn a dead language. That's what it is, a dead language, if it was not dead then why is there so much opposition to it? You say 60,000 people speak it on a daily basis,that's roughly 1.2% of the population,of the Irish population who speak Irish everyday.
Ask yourself is 1.2% a big figure? No it isn't, it is miniscule.

There is no sense in forcefully teaching Irish. However, there is sense in making it optional.

Oh no, but people (you for example), will simply not have this. You will come out with all your national heritage nonsense and say Irish is a nessecity. I'm sorry to tell you it isn't. People should be given a choice. We are not given this choice and never will be given this choice beacsue of the small 1.2% of people who take pride in our heritage.

Get with the times, its now the twenty first century. We need to stop embracing our old traditions and open our eyes. Open our eyes so we can see that Irish is unessential and therefore we should be given a choice.

I can guarantee you that there is a much higher percentage that take pride in our Heritage than that figure. There are people out there who love the language but don't/can't speak it.


You say that Irish is a dead language-please explain the reason why 800,000 people tune into TG4 daily. It's because the language is becoming more popular. Far from dead-but it would die out if Irish was made optional. However, there is absolutely no chance of Irish becoming optional in the foreseeable future.

gemxpink

annieee wrote: »

If a student dislikes Irish and does badly in Irish for approx 10 years up until Jnr Cert I cannot see how forcing them to do another 2 years can be of any benifit to them or the language.

I did really badly up until JC... now I love it.

Evan93

You say that Irish is a dead language-please explain the reason why 800,000 people tune into TG4 daily. It's because the language is becoming more popular. Far from dead-but it would die out if Irish was made optional. However, there is absolutely no chance of Irish becoming optional in the foreseeable future.

If TG4 is pro Irish, then why is there English shows on it?


Why will it not become optional, why not? There is no logical reason for it not to become optional. Although logic is rare in the government.

redout

Pretty sure Irish is mandatory for the legal profession.

The Kings Inn give all applicants two aural/oral exams in Irish aswell as two written exams I think.

grrrrrrrrrr

To correct what i said earlier to some extent about FG not having much views on the irish matter, Enda Kenny did say he would abolise it being complusary 5 years ago!!

wouldnt say he's done a whole pile since but i wouldnt be a fan anyway

gemxpink

Evan93 wrote: »

If TG4 is pro Irish, then why is there English shows on it?


Why will it not become optional, why not? There is no logical reason for it not to become optional. Although logic is rare in the government.

Have you actually thought about their marketing plan? If you want to encourage something you have to reach out. They are reaching out to the English speaking group in a bid to encourage them to become more comfortable with the station and feel as though they may actually enjoy watching TG4 regardless of whether or not they understand every word. Also, the pure cost of translating each show is immense. The people living in the Gaeltacht ares may also enjoy watching one of their favourite TV shows in English too.

If we leave Irish to become optional it will show that we are failing our culture, failing everything that every Irish person in the past had fought for; independence, our own identity, our own culture. Irish is a huge part of our culture, like it or lump it. Irish will never be compulsory and I am glad. If it does happen to become compulsory in a few years then I think it will be a sad sad time for Ireland.

Mayoegian

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

To correct what i said earlier to some extent about FG not having much views on the irish matter, Enda Kenny did say he would abolise it being complusary 5 years ago!!

wouldnt say he's done a whole pile since but i wouldnt be a fan anyway

Thank you for reading my post.

As for him 'not doing a whole pile since'-you do realise that Enda Kenny and Fine Gael are not in Government? They don't have a huge say. He has re-itterated his view on the matter several times.

ps3man

The route of the problem is not the teaching in secondary school's, okay it is to blame for a small amount of problems, but in my opinion its the standard that the language is thought at primary level is the main problem, Im in Leaving Cert Higher Level Irish now simply because I went to an Irish Primary school, when I started the second level Irish it was like a flashback to stuff we did in 1st/2nd class yet people who went to local national schools struggled, if Irish was thought better at primary level, the original poster probably would not have struggled at Irish the way he/she is now, reforming the second level course is not the way forward, primary level teaching of it has to be reformed, the only thing people coming out of english speaking primary schools seems to be , an bhfuil cead agam dul go dti an leithreais?

Evan93

If we leave Irish to become optional it will show that we are failing our culture, failing everything that every Irish person in the past had fought for; independence, our own identity, our own culture. Irish is a huge part of our culture, like it or lump it. Irish will never be compulsory and I am glad. If it does happen to become compulsory in a few years then I think it will be a sad sad time for Ireland.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Culture does not matter to the student who is putting endless hours into regurgitating words of a foreign language to them. This is what is wrong with the people of Ireland, we live in the past. We cherish our traditions. Traditions such as our language. We have to realise that Irish is not beneficial to the student who is going to study Physics or English or Maths. Irish is only beneficial to those who will study Irish. Come 5th year a student should know whether he/she will possibly pursue a career in Irish. Also a student can do it for pleasure and that is perfectly fine. What about the student who does not want to do it? , Which will be the majority of students. They are now forced to do something they do not like and will never need. In Scotland, you can study Scottish Gaelic at one's discretion, it is not forced upon a student, they are given a choice.

It is just stupid at this stage that we are still forced into learning (well, regurgitating) Irish because a small number of people see it beneficial.

chughes

The bottom line as far as I'm concerned is that while there is compulsion, there will be those that protest against it being compulsary.
As I said in an earlier post, I'm in favour of it being optional. I really don't understand why those that want it to remain compulsary wish to keep it so. If there is enough people who wish to learn Irish and use it regularly, then it won't die. Scots Gaelic and Welsh haven't died out and they are not compulsary in those countries. For those not interested in the language, compulsion only fosters resentment.

Cathal93

Look who cares that Irish is our native language? What we should be proud that we're learning how to speak a dead language, dont see how this is helpful in our "knowledge based economy" that our government is promoting.

I have 5 classes of irish a week, 40 mins, so thats 200 mins a week
Dont know about anyone else, but in 6th year I could def use an extra 200 mins in maths, english, german and accounting.

It should be optional. And as for needing it for primary teaching? I have since forever wanted to be a primary teacher, get really good results in everything bar irish. Had to drop back to pass irish cause I was failing. So that's my dream gone....

LordSutch

Irish Should be complusory?? WHAT YOU THINK?

I answered 'YES' but not to the above :cool:

The Title of this Thread V the Poll heading might be confusing to some ?

grrrrrrrrrr

Camelot wrote: »

Irish Should be complusory?? WHAT YOU THINK?

I answered 'YES' but not to the above :cool:

The Title of this Thread V the Poll heading might be confusing to some ?

im the OP. i wud change it but i doont mind that people pick "yes". ha...

dont think i can change it nyway

grrrrrrrrrr

Cathal93 wrote: »

Look who cares that Irish is our native language? What we should be proud that we're learning how to speak a dead language, dont see how this is helpful in our "knowledge based economy" that our government is promoting.

I have 5 classes of irish a week, 40 mins, so thats 200 mins a week
Dont know about anyone else, but in 6th year I could def use an extra 200 mins in maths, english, german and accounting.

It should be optional. And as for needing it for primary teaching? I have since forever wanted to be a primary teacher, get really good results in everything bar irish. Had to drop back to pass irish cause I was failing. So that's my dream gone....

Here here!!

grrrrrrrrrr

guess i cant really send this to batt with only 70 votes

highlydebased

Keep it by all means, just overhaul it. Get rid of all this Stair na Gaeilge and the horrendous amount of Pro's and Poetry. The course should be more similar to that of foreign languages which are much more student friendly and what not.

Having done Irish for 14 years I can hardly string together a sentence, says alot for it really.

grrrrrrrrrr

Neon-Circles wrote: »

Keep it by all means, just overhaul it. Get rid of all this Stair na Gaeilge and the horrendous amount of Pro's and Poetry. The course should be more similar to that of foreign languages which are much more student friendly and what not.

Having done Irish for 14 years I can hardly string together a sentence, says alot for it really.

im not for keeping it but it would need a radicle reformation like that to give ppl ny confidence in it!!
although i dono how radicle that wud be!!

JennyBean1

Hey

I think Irish is really hard however i think it more the way its taught in school makes it soo boring that everyone loses interest!!

So thats why they thought lets give them more time for the exam to make up for it which clearly doesnt!!!

They lately have changed the course too for Orals to be 40% and no more Stair le gealge!!!

I find that rediculously unfair to the people who have to trawl through the reams of stuff for the leaving cert for the next two years!!

So i believe make it voluntary or make the course more interesting!!!:D
xxxx