Irish Should be compulsory?? WHAT YOU THINK?

Lawliet

happy_feet wrote: »

Well, oddly enough, it seems to be the people who dont have pride in their culture and heritage are the ones who want it to be optional.
Strange that.

That's a very unfair generalisation to make. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are proud of their culture, who are for making Irish an option: perhaps realising that forcing people to learn Irish will not make them proud of it, but instead breed hatred for the language.
Saying that people who don't want to force Irish down other people's throats are not proud of their culture and heritage is ridiculous.

And frankly -although this a little off topic- I don't think having pride in one's culture and heritage is necessarily a positive thing. But that's another can of worms.

happy_feet

i get your point.
Dont get me wrong im not some crazy culture freak,i just enjoy irish music, dance and culture in general including the language. I just think we ought to be proud to learn a unique, ancient language that sets us apart from other english speaking countries.

Moshimoshi

happy_feet wrote: »

Well, oddly enough, it seems to be the people who dont have pride in their culture and heritage are the ones who want it to be optional.
Strange that.

There is a big difference between having pride in your culture and thinking it is right to that everyone else should feel the same emotions with regard to their culture as you do.

Risteard

happy_feet wrote: »

Well, oddly enough, it seems to be the people who dont have pride in their culture and heritage are the ones who want it to be optional.
Strange that.

I'm sorry, you have no idea who I am. Or many of the other posters. I'm quite proud of my country and heritage. That means I'd like to see our language treated maybe a bit better than having it forced down our throats in a manner which serves no benefit to it.

Chuchoter

Myself, I really like Irish for the most part, but I think making it compulsory serves no-one. It makes half the people despise it and the other half who like it are held back by the people who hate it. I'd like to say its a useful subject..but its just not. The primary teachers can take it but leave everyone else out of it. \not to mention the way its taught is insanely bad.

chughes

happy_feet wrote: »

Its your heritage, its your culture.

While I agree that the Irish language is part of our heritage, I would disagree that it's part of our culture. To me culture is the total way of life of a group of people at a point in time. I think its fair to say the the vast majority of people in Ireland communicate with each other through the medium of English. In order for it to be part of our culture, we would want to take in information in Irish as much as we do in English and that just doesn't happen.
Change the learning focus to conversational and make it optional. Eighty years of the other way clearly hasn't worked.

Bradence93!

I honestly think that the course is crap! don't get me wrong i adore the language:D but like how on earth is a teacher able to fail you simply for not answerng exactly wahat they give!!!!!:mad:
is anybody else not doing an triail for higher irish????

grrrrrrrrrr

I am proud of my country and my heritage and this is why i want to abolish irish! if this country is to grow and be seated amongst the most succesful in the world we dont want our sudents studying a dead pointless lanuage!

Do you think any of our matryrs would want us living in the best and not deeveloping our nations?

Lawliet

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

if this country is to grow and be seated amongst the most succesful in the world we dont want our sudents studying a dead pointless lanuage!

Surely giving our students a cultural education wouldn't prevent the country from becoming successful, now would it? Since strangely knowing a "dead pointless language" is often seen as a mark of being well educated, and being well educated is pretty synonymous with success. So your argument doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Do you think any of our matryrs would want us living in the best and not deeveloping our nations?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say there: our martyrs don't want us living in the best or developing our nation, or they do want us living in the best but don't want us to develop our country?

ps3man

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

I am proud of my country and my heritage and this is why i want to abolish irish! if this country is to grow and be seated amongst the most succesful in the world we dont want our sudents studying a dead pointless lanuage!

Do you think any of our matryrs would want us living in the best and not deeveloping our nations?

Considering our martyrs as you called them with their cultural revival plan, gaa, making irish the primary language, i reckon they did want irish to be the priority, read a history book mate on the topic.

fufureida

I think that everyone posting in this thread had valid points. However majority rules and the polls results show that more ppl dislike the Irish language. Ppl who love Irish and I don't mean to generalise, but in my school the ppl who r mad into Irish are also strong IRA as well as Taliban supporters. Strange.*

If Irish ppl long to become an integral part of the first world i think such a high emphasis on Irish as an LC subject should not exist. Why can't we learn a language that actually bears significance to the future? Or if schools must teach Irish, why can't it simply be more oral orientated?

Mayoegian

fufureida wrote: »

I think that everyone posting in this thread had valid points. However majority rules and the polls results show that more ppl dislike the Irish language. Ppl who love Irish and I don't mean to generalise, but in my school the ppl who r mad into Irish are also strong IRA as well as Taliban supporters. Strange.*

If Irish ppl long to become an integral part of the first world i think such a high emphasis on Irish as an LC subject should not exist. Why can't we learn a language that actually bears significance to the future? Or if schools must teach Irish, why can't it simply be more oral orientated?

And how the heck could you say this applies to the rest of Ireland? That is the worse reply I have ever seen on any thread. Congratulations.

Lawliet

fufureida wrote: »

Ppl who love Irish and I don't mean to generalise, but in my school the ppl who r mad into Irish are also strong IRA as well as Taliban supporters. Strange.*

You don't want to generalise, but then you go on to connect people loving Irish with supporters of violent terrorists? That's incredibility insulting.

ride-the-spiral

Most of the people in my school that are IRA supporters would die for Man Utd. or Celtic and the only word of Irish they know is Tiocfaidh ár lá.

MaighEoAbu

fufureida wrote: »

I think that everyone posting in this thread had valid points. However majority rules and the polls results show that more ppl dislike the Irish language. Ppl who love Irish and I don't mean to generalise, but in my school the ppl who r mad into Irish are also strong IRA as well as Taliban supporters. Strange.*

If Irish ppl long to become an integral part of the first world i think such a high emphasis on Irish as an LC subject should not exist. Why can't we learn a language that actually bears significance to the future? Or if schools must teach Irish, why can't it simply be more oral orientated?

Okay, I think this guy should be banned for the above statement. It's like saying because someone is Pakistani and likes Urdu that they are terrorists.

You have a serious problem there I think.

Also, the title of the thread and poll are messed up so it's invalid. If people look at the thread and decide Irish should remain compulsory ( which the arguments here have far outweighed arguments against ), then they'll pick the opposite choice on the poll.

ride-the-spiral

MaighEoAbu wrote: »

Okay, I think this guy should be banned for the above statement. It's like saying because someone is Pakistani and likes Urdu that they are terrorists.

You have a serious problem there I think.

Also, the title of the thread and poll are messed up so it's invalid. If people look at the thread and decide Irish should remain compulsory ( which the arguments here have far outweighed arguments against ), then they'll pick the opposite choice on the poll.

I must have missed that bit.

Lawliet

ride-the-spiral wrote: »

I must have missed that bit.

I believe MaighEoAbu is slightly biased there. Speaking as someone who's undecided, I haven't found any argument convincing enough to sway me either way.

sweetfarthing

I think that Irish should be compulsory up to the Junior Cert and optional for the Leaving. Here's why:
1. In general Irish is not taught well and this is true for secondary schools in particular imo. If the teaching was good, the majority of people would be fluent by the time of their Junior Cert, after studying the subject for 11 years(!) At present, this is definitely not the case.
2. Irish is not a useful language, at least in an international sense. Why should people be forced to spend valuable study time in preparation for their LC doing Irish, if they will not actually need the language for their future career/enjoyment/travel needs?
3. Imho Irish would become more "chic" and popular if it was optional for the LC. I definitely feel that forcing people to study a subject can make them feel bitter about it. Think of Wales. There, Welsh is compulsory only up to the age of 16. At the moment about 22% of the Welsh population are fully fluent in Welsh and this number is rising.
I don't want the Irish language to "die," I simply don't think it should be forced down people's throats! If Irish is to remain compulsory to LC, I think that retraining of teachers and a syllabus change should be in order:)

Risteard

sweetfarthing wrote: »

I think that Irish should be compulsory up to the Junior Cert and optional for the Leaving. Here's why:
1. In general Irish is not taught well and this is true for secondary schools in particular imo. If the teaching was good, the majority of people would be fluent by the time of their Junior Cert, after studying the subject for 11 years(!) At present, this is definitely not the case.
2. Irish is not a useful language, at least in an international sense. Why should people be forced to spend valuable study time in preparation for their LC doing Irish, if they will not actually need the language for their future career/enjoyment/travel needs?
3. Imho Irish would become more "chic" and popular if it was optional for the LC. I definitely feel that forcing people to study a subject can make them feel bitter about it. Think of Wales. There, Welsh is compulsory only up to the age of 16. At the moment about 22% of the Welsh population are fully fluent in Welsh and this number is rising.
I don't want the Irish language to "die," I simply don't think it should be forced down people's throats! If Irish is to remain compulsory to LC, I think that retraining of teachers and a syllabus change should be in order:)

That's my view as well. Teach it and teach it well to Junior Cert and leave people make up their minds after that.

the bolt

spurious wrote: »

The last conversation I had in Irish was in a Warsaw cafe with a Polish woman who had taught herself with one textbook and the internet.
She had better Irish than I have and made me feel quite ashamed of myself.

quite sad really that it takes someone from another country to bring that point home to us,it allways amazes me when you see second or third generation italians chating in there own lingo yet the vast majority of us irish cant speak our own.

grrrrrrrrrr

sweetfarthing wrote: »

I think that Irish should be compulsory up to the Junior Cert and optional for the Leaving. Here's why:
1. In general Irish is not taught well and this is true for secondary schools in particular imo. If the teaching was good, the majority of people would be fluent by the time of their Junior Cert, after studying the subject for 11 years(!) At present, this is definitely not the case.
2. Irish is not a useful language, at least in an international sense. Why should people be forced to spend valuable study time in preparation for their LC doing Irish, if they will not actually need the language for their future career/enjoyment/travel needs?
3. Imho Irish would become more "chic" and popular if it was optional for the LC. I definitely feel that forcing people to study a subject can make them feel bitter about it. Think of Wales. There, Welsh is compulsory only up to the age of 16. At the moment about 22% of the Welsh population are fully fluent in Welsh and this number is rising.
I don't want the Irish language to "die," I simply don't think it should be forced down people's throats! If Irish is to remain compulsory to LC, I think that retraining of teachers and a syllabus change should be in order:)

It would be a start to get rid of it for thr LC but as you said its a "useless" lanuage so why bother learning it?!?

I can think of 50 things that we'd be bertter off learning!

Mayoegian

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

It would be a start to get rid of it for thr LC but as you said its a "useless" lanuage so why bother learning it?!?

I can think of 50 things that we'd be bertter off learning!

Go on so....

grrrrrrrrrr

Mayoegian wrote: »

Go on so....

I was going to say 100 but i knew id be screwed if someone called my bluff!! you could do one of these if you werent doing Irish!! ok so


Chinese
Japenese
French
Spanish
German
Russian

Agricultural Science
Applied Mathematics
Biology
Chemistry
Physics
Physics and Chemistry
Technology
Engineering
Home Economics, Scientific and Social
Design and Communication Graphics
Construction Studies
Accounting
Agricultural Economics
Business
Economics
Art
Geography
History

Music
Religious Education
Politics and Society (Sociology) to be introduced to the curriculum 2010/2011.
or even add in a PE class
Safer driving class
computers
Safe pass
Swimming course
First aid course
Self defence Class
entrapenure course
LCVP class
portugese



someone else can come up with the rest!! thats about 40.....

Mayoegian

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

I was going to say 100 but i knew id be screwed if someone called my bluff!! you could do one of these if you werent doing Irish!! ok so


Chinese
Japenese
French
Spanish
German
Russian

Agricultural Science
Applied Mathematics
Biology
Chemistry
Physics
Physics and Chemistry
Technology
Engineering
Home Economics, Scientific and Social
Design and Communication Graphics
Construction Studies
Accounting
Agricultural Economics
Business
Economics
Art
Geography
History

Music
Religious Education
Politics and Society (Sociology) to be introduced to the curriculum 2010/2011.
or even add in a PE class
Safer driving class
computers
Safe pass
Swimming course
First aid course
Self defence Class
entrapenure course
LCVP class
portugese



someone else can come up with the rest!! thats about 40.....

All you have done is list(not even fifty) subjects for the LC. You could take this notion as regards THE ENTREPENEUR class. Say if I was doing the entrepeneur class, I could be doing something else worthwhile instead. If I was doing the computers class, I could be doing something else worth my time. If I was doing AM, I could be doing something else worth my time. Your argument is flawed. So's your list-alot of them aren't LC subjects.

ayumi

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

I was going to say 100 but i knew id be screwed if someone called my bluff!! you could do one of these if you werent doing Irish!! ok so


Chinese
Japenese
French
Spanish
German
Russian

Agricultural Science
Applied Mathematics
Biology
Chemistry
Physics
Physics and Chemistry
Technology
Engineering
Home Economics, Scientific and Social
Design and Communication Graphics
Construction Studies
Accounting
Agricultural Economics
Business
Economics
Art
Geography
History

Music
Religious Education
Politics and Society (Sociology) to be introduced to the curriculum 2010/2011.
or even add in a PE class
Safer driving class
computers
Safe pass
Swimming course
First aid course
Self defence Class
entrapenure course
LCVP class
portugese



someone else can come up with the rest!! thats about 40.....

I understand were your coming from,instead of going to irish classes you could do another subject,like me i do economics,bio,chem and could do home ec instead of irish

grrrrrrrrrr

ayumi wrote: »

I understand were your coming from,instead of going to irish classes you could do another subject,like me i do economics,bio,chem and could do home ec instead of irish

EXACTLY! Thanks

cypharius

Here's 50 things better then learning Irish, including some subjects that don't exist(NE), but should... and some that shouldn't but would still be better then Irish.

1-Maths
2-English
3-Physics
4-Chemistry
5-Biology
6-Woodwork
7-Engineering
8-History
9-Geography
10-Economics
11-Accounting
12-Business studies
13-Classical Studies
14-Music
15-Art
16-Applied Maths
17-Politics (NE)
18-Psychology (NE)
19-Japanese
20-Russian
21-Arabic (NE)
22-Computer Science (NE)
23-Mandarin Chinese (NE)
24-German
25-French
26-Spanish
27-Italian
28-Polish (NE... I think)
29-Norwegian (NE)
30-Swedish (NE)
31-Korean (NE)
32-Vietnamese (NE)
33-Portuguese (NE)
34-Bengali (NE)
35-Punjabi (NE)
36-Latin (NE I think)
37-Greek (NE I think)
38-Hindi (NE)
39-Tamil (NE)
40-Marathi (NE)
41-Thai (NE)
42-Hungarian (NE)
43-Zulu (NE)
44-Technical Graphics
45-Law (NE)
46-Anthropology (NE)
47-Further Mathamatics (NE)
48-Sociology (NE)
49-Middle Eastern Politics (NE)
50-Irish Politics (NE)
51-European Politics(NE)
52-US Politics (NE)
53-Russian Politics (NE)
54-African Politics (NE)
55-Far Eastern Politics(NE)

christina_x

its nice to have. For example on our school tour to Italy, we spoke in irish to our friends when we didnt want others to know what we were saying, and that was very useful, but its a pain in the back end to learn when your under enough stress to get your LC

Bottle_of_Smoke

I think it should be optional for leaving cert. I also think EVERY subject should be optional for leaving cert

In wales welsh is optional for A-levels and mcuh more of them make an effort with it and are actively proud of it.

The system in ROI is that Irish is almost clinically dead and forcing people to do it is effectively keeping it hooked up to a life machine.

Irish is also optional in Northern Ireland for A level, I'm in Uni here and a lot more people can speak it fluently than you'd find in the 26 counties.

For the sake of the language I'd like to see it made optional for leaving cert

ddef

what i find funny is that it is the generation that doesnt want to learn irish is being forced to do it. I'm 18 years old, I'm legally an adult, i shouldve have to be forced to learn something i dont want.
not to mention it sounds like a pig being castrated when someone speaks it.