Irish Should be compulsory?? WHAT YOU THINK?

I.Am.A.Panda · 26-03-2010 9:29pm

[QUOTE= Mayoegian ]

People are always saying 'I hate Irish', 'It shouldn't be made compulsary' etc. However, if you gave students have the chance to drop English or Maths-believe me, they'd take it. People tend to pick on Irish because it's that bit harder than those subjects, and they see no real point in studying it.

The Irish language is a huge part of both our cultural and historical heritage and if it was to be made optional, so many people would drop it that it would soon die out. Making it optional won't stop some people hating Irish-the same course would still be there. It's the curriculum that needs to be revised, and a larger emphasis placed on speaking and understanding it.

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam!
[/QUOTE]

Firstly, why should English and Maths be compulsory when you are fluent at English, and know basic Maths to get through life. The level of Maths it is taken to at the leaving cert level is ridiculous.

Secondly, Irish Dancing, Music, amongst other things, are part of our culture. Should they be compulsory in schools.

Tír gan ceol agus rince, tír gan anam??

AllInOne · 26-03-2010 9:37pm

This time last year I would have said that Irish was a total waste of time and that there was no point in teaching it. However, last year I was in honours, and this year I'm in pass. And alas, I can finally understand what is going on and I love speaking in Irish! My phrasing may be simple but Irish is finally enjoyable for me! The pressure put on honours Irish students, and students all up along the secondary cycle is ridiculous. Irish should not be based on poetry and sceals, there is too much emphasis on that malarky, instead , Irish should be totally orally based, atleast at first. We need to get the basics down before we move on to anything else.

I.Am.A.Panda · 27-03-2010 1:45am

AllInOne wrote: »

This time last year I would have said that Irish was a total waste of time and that there was no point in teaching it. However, last year I was in honours, and this year I'm in pass. And alas, I can finally understand what is going on and I love speaking in Irish! My phrasing may be simple but Irish is finally enjoyable for me! The pressure put on honours Irish students, and students all up along the secondary cycle is ridiculous. Irish should not be based on poetry and sceals, there is too much emphasis on that malarky, instead , Irish should be totally orally based, atleast at first. We need to get the basics down before we move on to anything else.

The problem with this is that is it extremely difficult to examine a language completely orally on the same level, as well as learning it orally. A language can't be learned orally via a 40 minute class 5-6 times a week. Besides, you would need to sit an hour minimum for the same examination effect, time which examiners don't have.

grrrrrrrrrr · 30-03-2010 12:30pm

I.Am.A.Panda wrote: »

Firstly, why should English and Maths be compulsory when you are fluent at English, and know basic Maths to get through life. The level of Maths it is taken to at the leaving cert level is ridiculous.

Secondly, Irish Dancing, Music, amongst other things, are part of our culture. Should they be compulsory in schools.

Tír gan ceol agus rince, tír gan anam??

Go off and do foundation maths and English so....
See how you get on in college not being able to express your view or elaborate on points!

ironclaw · 30-03-2010 8:21pm

Firstly, why should English and Maths be compulsory when you are fluent at English, and know basic Maths to get through life. The level of Maths it is taken to at the leaving cert level is ridiculous.

English, 508,000,000 speakers. Irish, it cannot be more than 4 million approx, and of those 4 million or so, how many speak it every day? Yes, the English curriculum has its problems, but you actually have a chance of getting an A in it. And at the end of the day, points are what you need. Not to be able to converse in Irish.

And on the maths point, if people actually knew the wonders of maths they would appreciate it. I hated it at secondary, but now in University its a huge subject within my course. There are aspects that you may never appreciate but they impact your daily life.

Secondly, Irish Dancing, Music, amongst other things, are part of our culture. Should they be compulsory in schools.

No, because frankly they are useless. Riverdance was amazing, Trad is very cool but on a world stage? Nope. Nothing. Nada. If you pose it that would, should other forms of culture be mandatory? The Gaelgor's of this country would be up in arms if Arabic, Indian or African dancing was imposed on our children.

Tír gan ceol agus rince, tír gan anam??

We have a name. We have music. And frankly, Ireland moved on many years ago from statements like that.

30-03-2010 8:48pm

no, cos i support ieland and celtic are good doesn;t mean i should peek irish cos im dyslctic

cypharius · 30-03-2010 8:49pm

Deleted User wrote: »

no, cos i support ieland and celtic are good doesn;t mean i should peek irish cos im dyslctic

People like you enforce the misconception that dyslexic people are stupid.

30-03-2010 8:53pm

people like u r gay

randylonghorn · 30-03-2010 9:02pm

cypharius wrote: »

People like you enforce the misconception that dyslexic people are stupid.

No, they reinforce the misconception that internet users can't recognise a troll when they see one.

Deleted User wrote: »

people like u r gay

Nah, he's not gay, Paddy, it's those tight leather shorts you're wearing and the way you keep brushing up against him, sure with all the stress of the LC and study you can't blame him for being tempted!! Banned from LC for a month for obvious trolling and attempting to undermine the sexual morality of the users.

Zephyr91 · 30-03-2010 9:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

people like u r gay

Ooof! He got you there. Wait wait wait...better comeback...So's your face!! *swish* You walked into that one.

Anyway, I think it should be compulsory, but the course should by changed. None of that poets/prose crap, and more of learning how to speak the language!

randylonghorn · 30-03-2010 9:26pm

Zephyr91 wrote: »

Ooof! He got you there. Wait wait wait...better comeback...So's your face!! *swish* You walked into that one.

Oh, don't you start swishing as well, or I'll end up with all the wimmen in this forum to myself ...

Oh, wait ... on second thoughts, as you were!! >_>

cypharius · 30-03-2010 9:33pm

Back to the topic, I have an alternative which I can't find anywhere on this thread(But I'm sure it's here allready).

Keep it compulsery, but not an exam subject, to take the exam students can take it as an extra class and then take the exam, I think it being an exam subject puts too much presure on students not good at languages.

Or even still, they keep it manditory, but stop havingit as a requirement for courses in 3rd level that don't have anything to do with Irish/Languages. How the hell is knowing some poems in a dying language gonna help somebody in Medecine, or Programming, or Engineering, or Psychology, etc.

grrrrrrrrrr · 04-04-2010 3:35pm

cypharius wrote: »

Back to the topic, I have an alternative which I can't find anywhere on this thread(But I'm sure it's here allready).

Keep it compulsery, but not an exam subject, to take the exam students can take it as an extra class and then take the exam, I think it being an exam subject puts too much presure on students not good at languages.

Or even still, they keep it manditory, but stop havingit as a requirement for courses in 3rd level that don't have anything to do with Irish/Languages. How the hell is knowing some poems in a dying language gonna help somebody in Medecine, or Programming, or Engineering, or Psychology, etc.

Eh I already expressed my opinion but I'll just reply to say that I've better things to do in school than spend two or three classes a week learning that subject even with your proposed non-compulsary idea

fuzzel · 05-04-2010 5:48pm

Mayoegian wrote: »

However, 'couldn't care less' is the attitude some students who do Irish take, and interestingly it is these same students that are calling for Irish to be made optional.

Are you honestly surprised that it's not the straight A students who love Irish who are calling for it to be made optional?

Mayoegian · 05-04-2010 5:58pm

fuzzel wrote: »

Are you honestly surprised that it's not the straight A students who love Irish who are calling for it to be made optional?

Could you please elaborate on that point, you aren't explaining yourself very well:)

fuzzel · 05-04-2010 6:02pm

I didn't think it needed to be explained.
In any subject it's the weaker students/ the uninterested students who dislike the subject. I like maths, I got 94% in my mock, so I have no problem with maths being compulsory.
You said that it ws interesting that it was the students with a "couldn't care less attitude" to Irish who want it to made optional. I was merely pointing out that it's common sense that in any compulsory subject a student with a couldn't care less attitude will not want it to be compulsory.
And they're probably right to be honest.

Mayoegian · 05-04-2010 6:11pm

fuzzel wrote: »

I didn't think it needed to be explained.

Re-read your post and you'll see why it's difficult to understand.

fuzzel wrote: »

In any subject it's the weaker students/ the uninterested students who dislike the subject.

It is very unfair to suggest that students who are weak at a subject don't have any interest in it. I know girls who are very interested in certain subjects in my school, but simply don't have the fluency need to excel in the subject.

fuzzel wrote: »

I like maths, I got 94% in my mock, so I have no problem with maths being compulsory.

Good for you, but we're talking about Irish here!

fuzzel wrote: »

You said that it ws interesting that it was the students with a "couldn't care less attitude" to Irish who want it to made optional. I was merely pointing out that it's common sense that in any compulsory subject a student with a couldn't care less attitude will not want it to be compulsory.
And they're probably right to be honest.

You have succeeded in making the exact same point as I was making-people with a 'couldn't care less' attitude in a compulsory subject, will obviously not want it compulsory. They don't care about the attributes the subject may have e.g. historical roots, cultural roots, they simply don't want to work at it because they don't like it.

fuzzel · 05-04-2010 6:33pm

Mayoegian wrote: »

It is very unfair to suggest that students who are weak at a subject don't have any interest in it. I know girls who are very interested in certain subjects in my school, but simply don't have the fluency need to excel in the subject.

I wasn't suggesting that atall. I was infact thinking in entirely the opposite direction, students who have no interest in a subject are generally weak at it.

Good for you, but we're talking about Irish here!

The example is valid as it's another compulsory subject. Especially as it's possibly even more widely disliked than Irish.

You have succeeded in making the exact same point as I was making-people with a 'couldn't care less' attitude in a compulsory subject, will obviously not want it compulsory. They don't care about the attributes the subject may have e.g. historical roots, cultural roots, they simply don't want to work at it because they don't like it.

No, you've unfortunatly missed my point again. I was essentially saying that you were stating the obvious, and then acting as if it made a case for Irish being cumpulsory.

I reread my first post,by the way, and I still don't think it was that hard to understand, just perhaps a slightly more obscure point that I considered it.

RandolphEsq · 05-04-2010 6:42pm

Mayoegian wrote: »

You have succeeded in making the exact same point as I was making-people with a 'couldn't care less' attitude in a compulsory subject, will obviously not want it compulsory. They don't care about the attributes the subject may have e.g. historical roots, cultural roots, they simply don't want to work at it because they don't like it.

This.

Is exactly why the subject is so boring in school. It does not know whether it is a language or a culture study! It should be divided into 2 separate subjects;
- Irish language (learning to speak the language; good)
- Irish Cultural Studies (all the literature, culture and crap; boring)

Both subjects of course are optional but it would fix the problem of Irish being a boring, useless, snobby waste of time in school

fuzzel · 05-04-2010 6:46pm

RandolphEsq wrote: »

This.

Is exactly why the subject is so boring in school. It does not know whether it is a language or a culture study! It should be divided into 2 separate subjects;
- Irish language (learning to speak the language; good)
- Irish Cultural Studies (all the literature, culture and crap; boring)

Both subjects of course are optional but it would fix the problem of Irish being a boring, useless, snobby waste of time in school

I like that idea actually. If might have taken Irish language if it had been an option.

ps3man · 05-04-2010 6:46pm

The main reason people want to see Irish made optional is the fact that once the leaving cert is over, what can you do with Irish? They have a point to be honest. Then again I went to an Irish Primary school, doing the Lc this year and would think it a crying shame if it was made optional.

Mike 1972 · 05-04-2010 6:59pm

Elessar wrote: »

I don't know a single person who hated Irish that now watches TG4 .

Unless they like cowboy films ?

RandolphEsq · 06-04-2010 3:14pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Unless they like cowboy films ?

Or French bewbies!

Fad · 06-04-2010 7:13pm

fuzzel wrote: »

Are you honestly surprised that it's not the straight A students who love Irish who are calling for it to be made optional?

Not all people who love the language are straight A students......

Mini Driver · 06-04-2010 7:23pm

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

English- so important for conversing and communticating!
IRISH- well eh, em, err......... (if its not complusary then you prob wont need it for primary teaching)

And it could be just that im annoyed that on top of many extremely important topics in other subjects ive to learn pages about poetry that seems to be completely pointless!!

Opinions?

How do you see learning English poetry any less useless in everyday life than Irish poetry? I dont agree that English as thought in school is of any real benefit in conversing and communicating.

I do completely agree with you that learning poetry in Irish and the way that the course is thought is putting almost everyone off the Irish language.

The Gaeltacht was fantastic for developing my Irish and it was great craic too. They should just re-design the Irish course based around actually using and stimulating the use of the language on the same principles of the Gaeltacht, e.g. why not conduct PE and other classes like computers in Irish where everyone just speaks in Irish etc??.

Id hate to see it die and to be honest its well useful when travelling around the world world and trying to let your mates know about some dodgy characters/hot women on the trains

Fad · 06-04-2010 7:41pm

Mini Driver wrote: »

The Gaeltacht was fantastic for developing my Irish and it was great craic too. They should just re-design the Irish course based around actually using and stimulating the use of the language on the same principles of the Gaeltacht, e.g. why not conduct PE and other classes like computers in Irish where everyone just speaks in Irish etc??.

Id hate to see it die and to be honest its well useful when travelling around the world world and trying to let your mates know about some dodgy characters/hot women on the trains

I know what you're getting at here, but this bit? NONONONONONONO, computers are taught badly enough as it is, no sense confusing people.

Travalling point is excellent! I was in a little stall in a market in Vietnam, kinda trapped in my the stall owner, and me and my friend could talk about the crap stuff that was trying to be sold to us was "Tá an geansaí sin fíor shíte, nach bhfuil?" obviously you need someone who has some ability with you, but meh!

Mike 1972 · 06-04-2010 9:31pm

Fad wrote: »

Not all people who love the language are straight A students......

In fairness I dont see why their sexual orientation should matter

Fad · 06-04-2010 10:33pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

In fairness I dont see why their sexual orientation should matter

Now that you mention it, I've never heard a gay man speak Irish.......

(Obviously this has serious implications)

RandolphEsq · 07-04-2010 12:56am

Fad wrote: »

Now that you mention it, I've never heard a gay man speak Irish.......

(Obviously this has serious implications)

2nd tme today I get to use this link;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gay,_lesbian_or_bisexual_people

Might find a few steers there
Cathal O'Searcaigh

Fad · 07-04-2010 1:13am

RandolphEsq wrote: »

2nd tme today I get to use this link;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gay,_lesbian_or_bisexual_people

Might find a few steers there
Cathal O'Searcaigh

I was, shall we say, extracting the urine.......I have heard several gay men speak the language.

O'Searcaigh is an oddball anyway!

Irish Should be compulsory?? WHAT YOU THINK?

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