Porto -v- Arsenal

noodler

I have to agree with Headshot here, Fabianskis' offences tonight were on a different planet to what Almunia did.

Frisbee

Headshot wrote: »

you think so

I watch alot of arsenals games and i think Almunia looks world class compared to Fabianski

im not saying Almunia is good enough but for me, he is miles better than Fabianski

They are both fantastic shot stoppers, no doubt about it.

But decision making and mental strength wise, atm, their very similair.

Last season Almunia was streets ahead, but he's been woeful this season.

amacachi

Des wrote: »

The free kick can be taken at any time after the referee blows for it.

Unless the referee tells them to wait for a second whistle.

What is complicated about that? What can't people understand?

Hope that was in no way directed at me, I'm asking exactly what the Arsenal players could've done within the "laws".
Also there's an element of consternation as when other similar incidents happen an exact opposite decision will happen. So basically no referee is wrong, whatever a referee decides is right and there's no basis to criticise them?


Great seeing who was refereeing tonight, the guy who robbed us and the guy who robbed Chelsea last year?

L'prof

Just saw the foul on Rosicky in the build up to that goal, definite penalty for me! Bad night for us, the ref let too many fouls go against us, Fabianski was awful...I blame him for both goals and genuinely think we should have had a pen!

leninbenjamin

Des wrote: »

Football doesn't have rules.

It has LAWS, and the referees are the judges appointed to interpret the laws.

There are no hard and fast rules in association football at all. None, everything that is decided by the referee during a game are down to his interpretation of those laws.

Ball hits someone's hand, the referee must decide if it was intentional or not, and then apply the law as he sees fit.

Referee's are issued guidelines on how those laws are to be interpreted though. At the very least the referee was obliged to position himself facing both the ball and the goal before that freekick was taken, which he failed to do.

I'll have to read the laws of the game again, but I also believe Dunphy might actually be correct here in when he says the referee was obliged to signal the offence before it was taken. It certainly in the laws of the game somewhere as a referee's obligation.

noodler

Frisbee wrote: »

They are both fantastic shot stoppers, no doubt about it.

Surely, there has to be a little doubt there?

Spiritoftheseventies

Headshot wrote: »

all we need for that video is background music and speed up the above video

How about "put your hands up" for music. Given Dunphy wont shut up about it

Pepe LeFrits

Almunia certainly isn't a fantastic shot stopper.

Fabianski

makl

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Referee's are issued guidelines on how those laws are to be interpreted though. At the very least the referee was obliged to position himself facing both the ball and the goal before that freekick was taken, which he failed to do.

I'll have to read the laws of the game again, but I also believe Dunphy might actually be correct here in when he says the referee was obliged to signal the offence before it was taken. It certainly in the laws of the game somewhere as a referee's obligation.

just seen the itv replay - the ref did signal it, perfectly clearly as he was running up the field.

only issue is he got in sol's way, but campbell wasnt exactly in a position to stop anything anyway

Spiritoftheseventies

Campbell makes his comeback. An inexperienced goal keeper. And yer man Hansen. Recipe for disaster really

Sir Gallagher

Jaysus i thought Ronnie was just bitter towards Liverpool seems as though he hasn't much time for Arsenal either. How are a team allowed to assemble a wall get players back etc. And not do the same when it's in the box?

I suppose it's all down to the ref really, just seems as though the opposition shoupd be given an opportunity to defend a free in a dangerous position.

Spiritoftheseventies

Last time a team took a sneaky free. Ref got abuse from dublin fans for years after this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRSnT7bxKNs

dfx-

makl wrote: »

just seen the itv replay - the ref did signal it, perfectly clearly as he was running up the field.

only issue is he got in sol's way, but campbell wasnt exactly in a position to stop anything anyway

I wonder if RTE will show it..

Mr Alan

you do realise that's a different sport?;)

am i bovvered

Unfortunately I missed the match but just caught the highlights of the goal.
It has to be said that the refereeing decision might have been within the rules but is highly unusual. He has his back to the player when the indirect free kick is taken and the ref is unbstructing the defender IMO the goal should not have been allowed.

Spiritoftheseventies

Mr Alan wrote: »

you do realise that's a different sport?;)

Yes but it was a similiar situation.

makl

dfx- wrote: »

I wonder if RTE will show it..

here we are....! redeemed!

RandolphEsq

dfx- wrote: »

I wonder if RTE will show it..

Just there. That ends that!

Sir Gallagher

Handsupgate '10

leninbenjamin

makl wrote: »

just seen the itv replay - the ref did signal it, perfectly clearly as he was running up the field.

only issue is he got in sol's way, but campbell wasnt exactly in a position to stop anything anyway

computer says no

FIFA's laws of the game wrote:

The referee indicates an indirect free kick by raising his arm above his head. He maintains his arm in that position until the kick has been taken and the ball has touched another player or goes out of play.

He dropped his arms before the kick was taken, so you can see why it would be misinterpreted. He failed in his obligations, kick shouldn't have been allowed.

Sir Gallagher

Ronnie couldn't resist mentioning his secret crush Rafa.

HalloweenJack

I thought all the goals were pretty poor defending.

Obviously, Fabianski was at fault for the first. I can only imagine he tried to push it out for a corner but got his angles all wrong. It didn't look like he made any attempt to catch the ball.

The Arsenal goal was pretty shocking defending too. Campbell was completely unmarked in the six-yard box. Helton and his two defenders were still stuck in their starting positions. It was the third header, iirc. Surely, they would've moved by that stage.

The whole free thing is probably a very strict interpretation of the rules, a bit like that Dutch goal in Euro 2008. I imagine Wenger will have a big rant about that. Also, I imagine Fabianski thought Campbell only swung a foot at the ball but didn't connect to it.

leninbenjamin

HalloweenJack wrote: »

The whole free thing is probably a very strict interpretation of the rules, a bit like that Dutch goal in Euro 2008. I imagine Wenger will have a big rant about that. Also, I imagine Fabianski thought Campbell only swung a foot at the ball but didn't connect to it.

Tbh, being a defender I've found myself in that situation before so I find it very hard to blame Sol. You expect your goalkeeper to signal his intentions in those kind of situations and if he doesn't do that there's a tendency to panic, which is what happened here what with the on rushing attacker. Fabianski is the only person to blame here tbh. He should have signalled Sol to either pass it or leave it, whereas looking at the replays there doesn't seem to have been any kind of communication at all.

Frisbee

Dunphy is getting very passionate about defending Arsenal here isn't he?

Headshot

utd have an ageing team

oh eamo you so crazy

MisterAnarchy

Frisbee wrote: »

Dunphy is getting very passionate about defending Arsenal here isn't he?

For once he is talking alot of sense.
Great debate by the boys.

leninbenjamin

I'm only half watching the conversation on RTÉ... it's quite hard to follow.

tony1kenobi

Frisbee wrote: »

Dunphy is getting very passionate about defending Arsenal here isn't he?

Yea.....it feels a bit lovely doesn't it?

amacachi

Shocked to agree with Dunphy.

Spiritoftheseventies

very interesting debate on. Seems to me Arsenal playing a bit safe. So they are debt free. But tonight you had the situation where you had a centre half coming back after three years, an inexperienced goalkeeper and a half fit striker.
There defence has been a mess for awhile now. Wenger surely could have afforded to splash out during the transfer window.

Mr Alan

Headshot wrote: »

utd have an ageing team

oh eamo you so crazy

At least you's have a team!

OPENROAD

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

very interesting debate on. Seems to me Arsenal playing a bit safe. So they are debt free. But tonight you had the situation where you had a centre half coming back after three years, an inexperienced goalkeeper and a half fit striker.
There defence has been a mess for awhile now. Wenger surely could have afforded to splash out during the transfer window.

Sol had a good game tonight, 2-1 away to Porto is not a bad result, lets see what happens in the second leg

L'prof

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

very interesting debate on. Seems to me Arsenal playing a bit safe. So they are debt free. But tonight you had the situation where you had a centre half coming back after three years, an inexperienced goalkeeper and a half fit striker.
There defence has been a mess for awhile now. Wenger surely could have afforded to splash out during the transfer window.

No point in racking up massive amounts of debt to be fair. I do think there is money for a few signings but, maybe January isn't the best time to do it!

Frisbee

Just as an aside Eamo was wrong when he said we're debt free.

We're in debt to something like the tune of €340M. It's fairly manageable though and all from the stadium move.

Paleface

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

very interesting debate on. Seems to me Arsenal playing a bit safe. So they are debt free. But tonight you had the situation where you had a centre half coming back after three years, an inexperienced goalkeeper and a half fit striker.
There defence has been a mess for awhile now. Wenger surely could have afforded to splash out during the transfer window.

It is an interesting debate alright.

Football has gotten completely out of hand in monetary terms and is effectively living in a bubble. The rest of the world is in sh*te financially. They can't escape forever.

L'prof

Frisbee wrote: »

Just as an aside Eamo was wrong when he said we're debt free.

We're in debt to something like the tune of €340M. It's fairly manageable though and all from the stadium move.

Haha, yeah I noticed that!

Headshot

arsenal do have money

they went for smalling in jan, so there's money there

OPENROAD

Frisbee wrote: »

Just as an aside Eamo was wrong when he said we're debt free.

We're in debt to something like the tune of €340M. It's fairly manageable though and all from the stadium move.

Thought we have an asset to show for it

Spiritoftheseventies

jasonorr wrote: »

No point in racking up massive amounts of debt to be fair. I do think there is money for a few signings but, maybe January isn't the best time to do it!

Not talking about racking up massive debts. But surely it was unwise to put in those two players into such a big game. Bendtner did okay tonight but I wouldn't be overly optimistic about second tie. If Arsenal are debt free spending a bit of money seems to be an option. There must have been a decent centre half around. Campbell did okay but the highlights showed he was struggling and there seemed to be a lack of communication between himself and the goalkeeper for the free that led to the goal

OPENROAD

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Not talking about racking up massive debts. But surely it was unwise to put in those two players into such a big game. Bendtner did okay tonight but I wouldn't be overly optimistic about second tie. If Arsenal are debt free spending a bit of money seems to be an option. There must have been a decent centre half around. Campbell did okay but the highlights showed he was struggling and there seemed to be a lack of communication between himself and the goalkeeper for the free that led to the goal

Blame the keeper imo. Saw enough tonight to suggest we will be ok in the return leg.

leninbenjamin

Frisbee wrote: »

We're in debt to something like the tune of €340M. It's fairly manageable though and all from the stadium move.

It's lower than that. The original loan on the stadium was around the €240m mark, but this is a long term loan with annual repayments of around €17-20m, easily covered by the operating profit of near €50m that Arsenal have accrued since the opening of the Emirates. The loan for the Highbury developments is the worrying aspect, it's a short term loan and it's essentially being renegotiated year on year. But so far terms have been favourable and the interest is being repayed, so it's not the immediate concern of the debt of United or Liverpool is.

The nominal value of the debt isn't important, it's the ability to repay the debt that the determining factor. €1m could take a club the size of United or Arsenal down if they can't pay it off on time.

Anyway, the important part to note about Arsenal's debt is that currently operating profits greatly exceed the repayments. So they aren't in danger of not being able to repay their debt for the immediate time being.

Spiritoftheseventies

OPENROAD wrote: »

Blame the keeper imo. Saw enough tonight to suggest we will be ok in the return leg.

Where are the goals going to come from. Didnt really threaten that much tonight?

Pro. F

That was an entertaining game all round.

Good point from Eamo there on RTE about the ref. It's a poor decision from him getting so involved in getting the ball back and letting the free be taken quickly.

Fabregas complaining about the 'school-boy errors' for the goals in the interview. It must be infuriating for him always knowing that he can't trust the defence.

Arsenal lacked a bit of zing as the game wore on, I would have thought they'd be better off with Fabregas playing deeper and getting involved more. They seemed to tire sharply as well.

I still think they should handle the return leg easy enough.

L'prof

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Not talking about racking up massive debts. But surely it was unwise to put in those two players into such a big game. Bendtner did okay tonight but I wouldn't be overly optimistic about second tie. If Arsenal are debt free spending a bit of money seems to be an option. There must have been a decent centre half around. Campbell did okay but the highlights showed he was struggling and there seemed to be a lack of communication between himself and the goalkeeper for the free that led to the goal

In fairness, both are backup players. Almunia, Gallas, Song and Arshavin all injured since the last game, maybe we should have better backup (and definitely a better first choice keeper) but, you can't account for that!

OPENROAD

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Where are the goals going to come from. Didnt really threaten that much tonight?

Plenty of goalscorers in the team, Cesc, Nasri, Diably, Rosicky.......

Away from home not a bad performance, at The Emirates we will be stronger.

Peyton Manning

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Where are the goals going to come from. Didnt really threaten that much tonight?

I really dont think scoring goals is a problem for Arsenal. Same amount of goals as Chelsea this year, and only 1 less than United.

Spiritoftheseventies

jasonorr wrote: »

In fairness, both are backup players. Almunia, Gallas, Song and Arshavin all injured since the last game, maybe we should have better backup (and definitely a better first choice keeper) but, you can't account for that!

To be fair the game was enjoyable enough but I think if you look at that team now and its not great compared to your title winning teams.
Team lacked a cutting edge tonight.

amacachi

Archimedez wrote: »

I really dont think scoring goals is a problem for Arsenal. Same amount of goals as Chelsea this year, and only 1 less than United.

All despite Van Persie being injured for a lot of the season.

L'prof

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

To be fair the game was enjoyable enough but I think if you look at that team now and its not great compared to your title winning teams.
Team lacked a cutting edge tonight.

If you look at our squad, we're just missing a solid keeper really and a bit more depth. It's the injuries that we can't cope with really!

OPENROAD

Ronnie Whelan :mad: