Pikeman Statues

FensterDJ

After seeing one in Tralee a few years ago and then another in Wexford over the weekend, I've become quite fascinated with 1798, Pikeman, Croppy boy statues and memorials

The Tralee one is wild and untamed and ready for action





The Wexford one has more of a disciplined and triumphant air about him



a quick google bring up a less impressive one in Longford - although he does have a great look of steely determination




Anymore statues or Memorials to Pikemen around the country?

Someone told me there was one at the entrance to the Druids Glen golf club, but i haven't been able to find a pic of it

Judgement Day

Epitaph of 1798: a photographic record of 1798 memorials on the island of Ieland and beyond. By John Cullen.
This book should be available at your local library and is a mine of useful information and pics of numerous 1798 memorials around the country. It is fairly exhaustive but misses some - especially Loyalists memorials - but I would highly recommend. Hard to buy a copy anywhere - at least I can't find one!

Seanchai

I have three or four photos of the monument to Páid Ó Donnchú, the blacksmith from Curragha in Meath during the 1798 insurrection, after whom the ballad was written by Patrick Archer in the 1820s.

How do I put them up here as images rather than as links to my Photobucket page?

donaghs

I thought Pikemen statues were normally related to some local 1798 activity, like in Wexford, Wicklow, and parts of Connacht. The Tralee one is interesting as Munster, and Kerry in particular were conspicuously quiet during this time. I've only read about minor incidents in Clare and Clonakilty, Cork.

The (mostly Catholic) North Cork Militia also played a leading role in quelling the rebellion.

I suspect that the Tralee statue was symbolic of mainstream Catholic Ireland's acceptance of the once radical-seeming 1798 rebellion. The 1898 centennary was a key date for this. The song "Boolavogue" was also composed that year, giving an impression of the Catholic Church leading the people's fight for freedom - rather than an individual who went against the grain of the pro-British establishment clergy.

Tarzan007

donaghs wrote: »

I thought Pikemen statues were normally related to some local 1798 activity, like in Wexford, Wicklow, and parts of Connacht. The Tralee one is interesting as Munster, and Kerry in particular were conspicuously quiet during this time. I've only read about minor incidents in Clare and Clonakilty, Cork.

The (mostly Catholic) North Cork Militia also played a leading role in quelling the rebellion.

I suspect that the Tralee statue was symbolic of mainstream Catholic Ireland's acceptance of the once radical-seeming 1798 rebellion. The 1898 centennary was a key date for this. The song "Boolavogue" was also composed that year, giving an impression of the Catholic Church leading the people's fight for freedom - rather than an individual who went against the grain of the pro-British establishment clergy.

" The (mostly Catholic) North Cork Militia also played a leading role in quelling the rebellion. " No they were not mostly Catholic, they were mostly Protestants from north Cork desended form an earlier plantation. Parts of Munster were planted in the 1580's to various levels of success, mostly with people form the south west of England. The rich pasture lands of County Cork been one area.

The North Cork Militia were extremely vindictive, much more so than even the general British army, and carried out some of the worst pillaging and destruction in the south east of Ireland in 1798. However they got their just rewards at the Battle of Oulart Hill where they were virtually wiped out by the rebels with only four of their regiment left alive as they fled the battle field.

But you are completely right about the Catholic Church giving an impression of leading the people's fight for freedom in the centenary in 1898. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Fiacre8

The initial question seems to have been lost here. I can confirm that there is a statue of a pikeman outside Druids Glen Clubhouse near the first tee.
I will endeavour to photograph it for you the next time I am there.

I have also heard a rumour of

"The Pikeman of Pimlico"

- I
have no idea if there are any such statues in the city of Dublin, I doubt it.

donaghs

Enniscorty (the town is right beside a battle site Vinegar Hill) has a statue of one, with Father Murphy beside him pointing.

lebowski11

I'm not 100% sure of the numbers, but by some accounts a significant number of Gaelic speaking Irishmen from N. Cork fought against the insurgents at the battle of Oulart Hill. Sources tell of the Gaelic militia men asking to attack in barefeet as the were unsed to military footwear.

Judgement Day

lebowski11 wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure of the numbers, but by some accounts a significant number of Gaelic speaking Irishmen from N. Cork fought against the insurgents at the battle of Oulart Hill. Sources tell of the Gaelic militia men asking to attack in barefeet as the were unsed to military footwear.

I have ready a good many accounts of the battle of Oulart Hill and never heard that one before, where did you find that reference?

FensterDJ

thanks for the info guys, the Pikeman of Pimlico is an intriuging idea - wasn't one of the leaders of the 1798 rebellion, who's name escapes me but he was an Earl or a lord or some member of the aristocracy, caught by the police in that area of the city, a few weeks before things kicked off?

donaghs

I heard that story too, i.e. that some of the captured Cork Catholic militia men pleaded with the rebels in Irish, which the Wexford men no longer understood. I'd have to go looking for a source. Could just be a historical old wives tale.

Lord Edward Fitzgerald? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Edward_FitzGerald

Exile 1798

Fenster,

There's a set of pikemen statues in Co. Wexford, just off the N25.

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/11014937.jpg (great photo, to big to post here)

lebowski11

Hi Judgement Day. I found it referenced in "A History of Ireland in 250 Episodes", by Jonathan Bardon. He refernces 2 authors for the account, neither of whom I have heard of before. Zimmerman and Pakenham are their names. I believe the Zimmerman book that Bardon refers to is called 'Songs of the Irish Rebillion'. Hope that helps. As a matter of interest could I ask where you sourced some of the acounts? The 1798 rebellion holds great interest for me.

FensterDJ

Exile 1798 wrote: »

Fenster,

There's a set of pikemen statues in Co. Wexford, just off the N25.

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/11014937.jpg (great photo, to big to post here)

thanks They're cool, very modern, touch of the Rown Gillespie about them

lebowski11

This one is in Thurles. It was unveiled in 1900.

Fiacre8

that photo from Exile is fantastic

Judgement Day

Ah yes the famous battle of Thurles! There are a lot of 1798 monuments in strange places. It's amazing the Brits were able to win given the sheer number of places that 'appear' to have been in revolt.

Fiacre8

donaghs

I think the Ballinamuck one was the 3rd photo posted originally, but from a different angle.

Doing some more research on this, I think there were two key events for the emergence of the Pikemen statues. The first was the 1898 Centenary, which in which the wider mainstream Catholic/Nationalist Ireland embraced and celebrated 1798.

The 2nd was the Local Government act in late 19thc which basically moved local govt power from the landlord class to elected local councils. The electoral franchise still had restrictions, but there were enough voters for the Irish Parliamentary Party to take over lots of councils. Once in power, they were able to assert their Nationalist credentials by putting up statues, and renaming streets after the like of O'Connell & Parnell.

FensterDJ

lebowski11 wrote: »

This one is in Thurles. It was unveiled in 1900.

interesting one, a lot of the same features but no pike? what's he got there, some sort of flag or banner?

is this still in place? can't seem to find a more up to date photo

Judgement Day

lebowski11 wrote: »

Hi Judgement Day. I found it referenced in "A History of Ireland in 250 Episodes", by Jonathan Bardon. He refernces 2 authors for the account, neither of whom I have heard of before. Zimmerman and Pakenham are their names. I believe the Zimmerman book that Bardon refers to is called 'Songs of the Irish Rebillion'. Hope that helps. As a matter of interest could I ask where you sourced some of the acounts? The 1798 rebellion holds great interest for me.

Sorry - only spotted your post this morning. There's a great deal of material published on 1798 and you need to read a lot of it to get a true picture of what actually went on. The biased Musgrave account is a massive contemporary work which after years in the wilderness is enjoying a rehabilitation amongst many historians. Should be at your local library and a copy of the 1995 reprint can sometimes be found on abebooks.com - worth buying for the maps alone.

Memoirs of the different rebellions in Ireland from the arrival of the English: also, a particular detail of that which broke out the 23d of May, 1798, with the history of the conspiracy which preceded it By Sir Musgrave Richard ……Fairly biased contemporary account but full of facts and figures AND names of many of the dead.
A History of the Rise, Progress, and Suppression of the Rebellion in the County of Wexford, in the Year 1798. To which is annexed the author's acccount of his captivity, and merciful deliverance by George Taylor…Another fairly biased contemporary account but nonetheless worth a read.
The People's Rising: Wexford, 1798 by Gahan, Daniel…Superb recent work on the subject.
Rebellion! Ireland in 1798 by Gahan, Daniel …Another essential book.
Rebellions: Memoir, Memory and 1798 by Dunne, Tom….Excellent recent book.
Weather and warfare a climatic history of the 1798 rebellion by Tyrell, John….Another recent work which explores an interesting aspect of the rebellion.
Protestant women's narratives of the Irish rebellion of 1798 edited by Beatty, John……Contemporary loyalist accounts…very good.
Ireland 1798 the battles by Kavanagh, Art…..Useful guide.
Memoirs of Miles Byrne by Byrne, Miles (1780-1862)…… An interesting nationalist account by one who was there. Published posthumously many years after the events so, in my opinion, factually full of errors caused by memory loss.
There are several other important works by Hay, Maxwell and Thomas Cloney but I can’t recommend as I have yet to read them myself.

FensterDJ

Jdgement, Have you read "The Year of Liberty" by Thomas Packenham?

if you have what are your thoughts on his account, it's mostly culled from British records, so I suppose it's not very objective

Judgement Day

FensterDJ - I have had Pakenham's book on the bookcase for years but still haven't got to it yet - I don't get much time to read anymore, except on the bus, and it's not exactly pocket size. As you say it is largely culled from official sources. I really like the contemporary accounts best, gruesome and all as some are, and you won't beat Musgrave's book. I have three direct ancestors listed amongst the dead in Musgrave's book so it brings it all closer to home for me.

lebowski11

Judgement Day wrote: »

Sorry - only spotted your post this morning. There's a great deal of material published on 1798 and you need to read a lot of it to get a true picture of what actually went on. The biased Musgrave account is a massive contemporary work which after years in the wilderness is enjoying a rehabilitation amongst many historians. Should be at your local library and a copy of the 1995 reprint can sometimes be found on abebooks.com - worth buying for the maps alone.

Memoirs of the different rebellions in Ireland from the arrival of the English: also, a particular detail of that which broke out the 23d of May, 1798, with the history of the conspiracy which preceded it By Sir Musgrave Richard ……Fairly biased contemporary account but full of facts and figures AND names of many of the dead.
A History of the Rise, Progress, and Suppression of the Rebellion in the County of Wexford, in the Year 1798. To which is annexed the author's acccount of his captivity, and merciful deliverance by George Taylor…Another fairly biased contemporary account but nonetheless worth a read.
The People's Rising: Wexford, 1798 by Gahan, Daniel…Superb recent work on the subject.
Rebellion! Ireland in 1798 by Gahan, Daniel …Another essential book.
Rebellions: Memoir, Memory and 1798 by Dunne, Tom….Excellent recent book.
Weather and warfare a climatic history of the 1798 rebellion by Tyrell, John….Another recent work which explores an interesting aspect of the rebellion.
Protestant women's narratives of the Irish rebellion of 1798 edited by Beatty, John……Contemporary loyalist accounts…very good.
Ireland 1798 the battles by Kavanagh, Art…..Useful guide.
Memoirs of Miles Byrne by Byrne, Miles (1780-1862)…… An interesting nationalist account by one who was there. Published posthumously many years after the events so, in my opinion, factually full of errors caused by memory loss.
There are several other important works by Hay, Maxwell and Thomas Cloney but I can’t recommend as I have yet to read them myself.

Thanks...Thats more than I could have asked for. I've read Gahan's books on 1798 and I agree, they are very good. 'Rebellion,Ireland in 1798 almost reads like a novel, I couldn't put it down until I had it finished. I'll try to get my hands on the Musgrave book you recommended, thanks again.

Judgement Day

lebowski11 -There are plenty of copies on www.abebooks.com tonight but DON'T buy the modern 2009/10 editions - they are nasty, poor quality print-on-demand rubbish. The one you want is by Round Tower Books, Indiana, USA - a high quality production and excellent value at €58 plus p+p. See below.


Bookseller Photo
Memoirs of the Different Rebellions in Ireland from the Arrival of the English: Also, a Particular Detail of That Which Broke Out the 23d of May, 1798; with the History of the Conspiracy Which Preceded It (ISBN: 096439250X / 0-9643925-0-X)
Musgrave, Sir Richard; Myers, Steven W.; McKnight, Delores E.
Bookseller: Book Dispensary (Vaughan, ON, Canada)
[URL="javascript:openNewWindow('/servlet/FrameBase?content=%2Fservlet%2FViewSellerRatingsHelp',500, 550,'yes');"]Bookseller Rating:[/URL] [URL="javascript:openNewWindow('/servlet/FrameBase?content=%2Fservlet%2FViewSellerRatingsHelp',500, 550,'yes');"][/URL]

Quantity Available: 1
Book Description: Round Tower Books, Fort Wayne, Indiana, U.S.A., 1995. Hard Cover. Book Condition: As New. Dust Jacket Condition: As New. AS NEW hardcover in AS NEW dust jacket, no marks in text; tight, bright and clean. Bookseller Inventory # 043063 - $80.00

meathstevie

There's one on the Oldtown Road in Ballyboughal, North County Dublin.

Judgement Day

Although not a 1798 statue, this fascinating piece of 1798 history from the Battle of New Ross (5/6/1798) was sold on eBay a few days ago for £735.08 - it started at £20.00 and I would say the seller got a shock at the final price! Hopefully it stayed in the country. If you click on the link you should be able to print off a copy of the letter - despite its poor condition it's a real rare bird.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190368374929&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

brianthebard

lebowski11 wrote: »

Hi Judgement Day. I found it referenced in "A History of Ireland in 250 Episodes", by Jonathan Bardon. He refernces 2 authors for the account, neither of whom I have heard of before. Zimmerman and Pakenham are their names.

I've never heard of Zimmerman but Pakenham is good, at least if its the one who's known for his work on the Boer war. There's a 1798 monument on high street in Sligo, not a pikeman but a symbolist version of Eire, its quite nice. There's also one out in Collooney 5-10 miles from Sligo, there was a battle there.
I think there are some monuments in Castlebar too, another battlefield iirc.

forgingfool

It's funny how all these statues play tribute to the Pikemen but none are erected to the men who started the uprising and paid a heave price, the Blacksmiths. They forged the pikes and where hung from the doorways of their forges as a result. In the forge where I was apprenticed we had the Decree that was issued after the uprising, stating that the penalty for a smith found making any pike like implaments was to be hung from their doorways without trial until dead.

A few year ago I submitted a proposal for a percent for art scheme in Enniscorthy. My design was for a piece of sculpture that would in part commemorate these brave and skilful men. My proposal was rejected on the grounds that they already had a sculpture commemorating the Pikemen.

FensterDJ

the Druids Glen Pike Man, without a doubt the worst one I've seen, looks a bit like the tinman in the Wizard of Oz crossed with a shop mannequin, no plinth either,

FensterDJ

forgingfool wrote: »

It's funny how all these statues play tribute to the Pikemen but none are erected to the men who started the uprising and paid a heave price, the Blacksmiths. They forged the pikes and where hung from the doorways of their forges as a result. In the forge where I was apprenticed we had the Decree that was issued after the uprising, stating that the penalty for a smith found making any pike like implaments was to be hung from their doorways without trial until dead.

A few year ago I submitted a proposal for a percent for art scheme in Enniscorthy. My design was for a piece of sculpture that would in part commemorate these brave and skilful men. My proposal was rejected on the grounds that they already had a sculpture commemorating the Pikemen.

That would seem like a great idea, you shouldn't let it drop just with one rejection, (although I doubt any council has money for statues at the moment)