Public opinion on gun ownership.

daveob007

Having studied many of the threads here and listening to the discussions from radio shows regarding handgun ownership it seems that we don't have very much sympathy from the public.
Most of the callers don't associate our guns with gun crime but are indeed worried about the stories coming from the media about school shooting in the us and other mass shooting around the world,and domestic shootings with legally held firearms.
Most people are concerned about kids getting hold of firearms from the home or criminals stealing them and using them in crime.
Top of the worry list are handguns because of the concealment factor.
Rifles and shotguns are rarely mentioned in peoples fear list.
I also noticed that when people phoned in supporting us,they never mentioned the new security requirments and medical background checks that we have to provide,even though they explained our sporting needs very well.
The public really don't want to hear about our success in competition or our safety record but seem to listen to the people like the media who love to sell the fear factor.
So how do we address this and get the point accross??
After all when thenext election comes around it's public opinion the political parties will listen to and not people like our good selves.
I don't expcect the antis to come around to our way ofthinking but at least if we can get them to respect and understand us and remove at least some o their fears it would be something.
any views on this???
Any ideas on this??

rowa

daveob007 wrote: »

Having studied many of the threads here and listening to the discussions from radio shows regarding handgun ownership it seems that we don't have very much sympathy from the public.
Most of the callers don't associate our guns with gun crime but are indeed worried about the stories coming from the media about school shooting in the us and other mass shooting around the world,and domestic shootings with legally held firearms.
Most people are concerned about kids getting hold of firearms from the home or criminals stealing them and using them in crime.
Top of the worry list are handguns because of the concealment factor.
Rifles and shotguns are rarely mentioned in peoples fear list.
I also noticed that when people phoned in supporting us,they never mentioned the new security requirments and medical background checks that we have to provide,even though they explained our sporting needs very well.
The public really don't want to hear about our success in competition or our safety record but seem to listen to the people like the media who love to sell the fear factor.
So how do we address this and get the point accross??
After all when thenext election comes around it's public opinion the political parties will listen to and not people like our good selves.
I don't expcect the antis to come around to our way ofthinking but at least if we can get them to respect and understand us and remove at least some o their fears it would be something.
any views on this???
Any ideas on this??

from what i've heard on radio phone in shows , its normally a load of people who haven't a clue as to what they are talking about ,but over opinionated about it never the less.

These are the people that the stations want because reasoned debate is not exciting enough, depends on the station i suppose , like everything else .

daveob007

there are those people who just don't want to know either,guns=bad
handguns=very bad

Grizzly 45

First off,the old adage in journalism and media whorage is ;if it bleeds it leads. Second ;Good news is NO news!
Bearing these two facts in mind do NOT expect to have a rational and even debate in the Irish media,especially the State media RTE.Which is contrary to them being an independant,unbiased media source as well.But thats another topic.Taking it down to the lowest common denomiator Joe Fluffy and Gasbag Gerry Ryan where the bewilderd of Ireland[I think it must be a daily therepy in our nut houses to let the patients loose to ring up these programmes.Must be difficult hitting the phone numbers in a jacket with no sleeves.Do you use your toes or nose??]express their concerns or politics or whatever about this great little country of ours.You could hardly expect a rational or even hearing or understanding of a complex issue of firearms ownership.Fluffy and Gasbag just pander to the mass of bored housewives and bar stool opinionaries out there.They dont want to hear a contradicting opinion to the current fad of the mob out there.However fortunatly gunownership isnt a big hit in Ireland,what with kiddiefiddling clerics,bungling BIFFO&CO,and a depression looming that will make the 1930s look like boomtimes.

TV is no better.The great stupidifier in the corner of the living room doesnt give much help either.Remember the Swine[Prime]time debacle on gunownership last year???If anyone can call that fair and unbiased is beyond me.Not to mind it has alot to answer for with some BS we have in our gunlaws.EG folding stocks,silencers...on the Telly used by bad guys in films..ergo civil serpent and politican think easily available here in Ireland as we have a "US style gunculture"BAAAADDD,must BBBAAANNN..

In reality,if you actually do ask the public in an unbiased and unsoundbyted way on gunownership here.Most will tell you that they dont know enough about it,and once you tell them how much trouble it is to own a gun here,most are aghast and say who is the Govt kidding on banning liscensed gunowners to be tough on crime??IOW our Govt isnt fooling anyone but themselves that they are winning a crime war.

To get our message across more,we really should take a leaf from the Gay pride movement.[NO !!we dont go all camp luvvies and paint our guns pink...Well whatever turns you on!:D:eek:] But we really should come out of the closet on being gunowners and start being individually more militant in a way about the actual discrimination we do face on things...

IRLConor

Folks, can you please remember this is a public forum?

There are things which were (I hope) posted in jest earlier which if taken out of context would be deeply damaging to the public image of firearms holders.

Please think before you post.

Grizzly 45

Bananaman wrote: »

I did not suggest that we should not have a public presence.
We should and it should be protected.

I despair when I see the contents of the two posts preceeding my last one.

Both of those are on a public forum and could be taken out of context and used by someone to say that is what we
- the shooting community - want to do -
when we under no circumstances want to do either of those things.

Thats a sorry fact of life B'man these days Plenty of public figures will tell you they have been quoted out of context on public statements,and for once i would belive them.There is nothing that can be done about it.either we just shut up and sy nothing here on boards,or we act like normal human beings and talk and deal with out of context statements when they happen,if ever.

Someone who happened to be browing boards to see what the 'shooting community' have to say and find that some 'enthusiasts' want to march on the Dail. That is Lunatic Fringe stuff - not public relations - and in no way reflects what the shooting community want to do - hence I despair

People will take what they want from reading comments here or anywhere else.If they are going to try and make an issue of tounge in cheek comments on a board that not many of the General public know about.
No one would take them seriously .Planning a revoulition on a public chat board???Very Irish I must say.:D:D

Not to mind if the post is coverd in comic symbols [IE pac man or smiley faces]That is generally accepted worldwide on the net as a non serious reply.

"Louie" has a big nose.The cock will crow.Berlin has the package.
Now is that just total meaningless BS or somthing more sinister.go figure.

4gun

just because we own a firearm now we are not allowed show dissatisfaction with the government firearms holders have pbeen publicly targeted by leglislation that is seriously damage the whole body of sports that use firearms,...for what, so they can show the media just how good their policies at tackling gun crime are and thus get reelected( which is the number 1 priorityfor any politician)
My comment about marching with firearms was a sarcastic remark
we are vetted law abiding citizens of what was once called "the free state" we have a right to march and protest and to make our voice heard
think about the long term,

dCorbus

4gun, you are entirely correct that we (as shooters) still retain our right of protest and / objection to this or any other government. But, imagine for a second you were a member of the anti-firearms lobby (god, forbid - but let's suspend reality here for a sec;)) and you, in your persona as the anti, read a post on a public forum advocating that firearms owners marched on the Dail with their "weapons" in hand? You'd quickly ignore the smiley faces and smirks and jump right on that bandwagon.

I don't disagree with you - we should stand up for our collective reputation and standing in society - but the "anti's" will use any potentially inflamatory statements (albeit taken entirely out of context and misquoted) to support their own argument. Let's not be handing them the ammunition (pun intended) they need so easily on a silver platter.:D

To get back to the OP's original points: IMHO the best thing we (again, as shooters in general) can do, is to let it be known what we do, why we do it, and how difficult it is to do what we do.

We should be promoting every good news shooting story - If there isn't any (which I doubt), then we should make some.

The Olympics are the best way to win over peoples "hearts-and-minds" IMHO. Putting aside the occasionally fractious relationship between the various shooting disciplines ("olympic" v's "non-olympic") within our own community (BTW A distinction the general public know little and could care less about;)), the Target Shooting Sports as seen in the winter and summer olympics are in reality the greatest coverage of shooting seen on that great influencer, the TV. Let's harness that in some way?

AFAIK Clay pigeon shooting in the olympics is the one shooting sport which we are currently represented in - Why is that not blown from the rooftops with a fanfare?

Our DFST travels to the CISM games to compete internationally against other sports shooters - Again, no fanfare?

Our ISSF / NTSA target shooters travel overseas to compete - No fanfare?

etc. etc. etc.

No blogs
No twitter
No shooting sports (Ireland) facebook
Most of our shooting sports websites are out-of-date

etc. etc.

And many of us not willing to speak openly about our pastime, sport, hobby to those outside the shooting community?

If we hide in the dark - Is it any wonder the "people" think we're up to no good? (OK - I do appreciate the security issues involved in blabbing about shooting stuff down the pub to all and sundry)

Also, let's work on persuasion - Show we're reasonable and conscientious sports men and women. And use our strong points to bring our sport into a far better light than it is current being viewed. (BTW What people actually believe and what the meedja would have us believe they believe, are very different IMHO - I don't think Joe Public is as "Anti" shooting sports as we would ourselves think).

4gun

was thinking this over a few minutes ago and this occured to me
when we talk of public opionion towards firearms in general we tend to blame both politicans and news media for the way we are potrayed and deamonised, but if you think about it this way, that ever since we were youngsters playing "cowboys and indians" you expected the indian to drop when fired upon, you learned that guns kill
those of us in the shooting community went on to learn that these "weapons" could also be used for sporting purposes and they are not always used in the manner potrayed in movies
the only other time firearms are seen in the public eye is when the army are guarding shipments of cash to and from banks so they again not percieved in a positive light.
we are all angry and frustrated at the attitud towards fireams so we come on here to vent and to gripe and snap at each other
St. Patricks day is coming up soon with a parade in every village, local sports clubs sometimes have a float why not Gun clubs displaying any trophies won by club members for clay or target shooting,
I'm not suggesting that firearms be on display, but maybe other parphernalia of the sport, traps, targets, bench rest etc
just a thought

dCorbus

Now you're thinking! Great ideas, 4gun

You're so right - To lay my cards on the table, I had never shot a rifle, firearm, anything, until very recently (and I mean very recently). Until then my only experience of firearms was as you call it - Movies, Armed Transit, etc.

No one out there in the big wide world knows anything about what we do, because we don't tell them.

Yes, I realise that there are varying opinions on this - Keep the Head Down, etc. etc. etc. - Oh, hmmmmm, let's see....that really worked, didn't it?:rolleyes:

So, the Patricks Day parade idea of yours - Fantastic! GO FOR IT!

4gun

I'm not going to make any apologies for my post earlier I certinly put enough smilies around it to show any sane person that it was a post not to be taken literally or so I thought
I was not advocating revolution in any shape of form
Our country might be in crisis due to political mishandling and greedy bankers, we can't do anything about the bankers( they will always be greedy) but we can do something about the politicans the next time there is a general election, thats when gun clubs could lobby potential T.D's
until then, it will all done through the courts

Grizzly 45

[

dCorbus wrote: »

4gun, you are entirely correct that we (as shooters) still retain our right of protest and / objection to this or any other government. But, imagine for a second you were a member of the anti-firearms lobby (god, forbid - but let's suspend reality here for a sec;)) and you, in your persona as the anti, read a post on a public forum advocating that firearms owners marched on the Dail with their "weapons" in hand? You'd quickly ignore the smiley faces and smirks and jump right on that bandwagon.

You would have to suspend reality quite abit to belive thast anyone would take this seriously...Lets face it who in their "right" mind is going to be planning an armed march or insurrection or whatever on a public board or over throw a the Gov.Thats monitored by the Gardai/DOJ and is known to be such???:rolleyes: FFS!!Somhow they manage to get somone in the media intrested in this conspircy theoy or write a letter to their favourite editor.Do you know where it will end up??In the bin! Along with letters about alien abductions in Ballygobackward,miracle cures for piles from Innerbred island and the sure fire witness of Elvis alive and well with Princess Diana riding Shergar past Looneys pub last night.:eek:
Lads,the papers and media get bombarded daily with this kind of rubbish on a grand scale so any journalist would still have to check it for factual content anyway before going to print or media.
So please let them rant away on crazy theories,with nil evidence .They will only show the world that they are nuttier than a fruit and nut bar by spouting gibberish.

I don't disagree with you - we should stand up for our collective reputation and standing in society - but the "anti's" will use any potentially inflamatory statements (albeit taken entirely out of context and misquoted) to support their own argument. Let's not be handing them the ammunition (pun intended) they need so easily on a silver platter.:D

I would be giving them all the more wilder and crazier stories to spout.In Intelligence circles it is called "chatter",and it only helps confuse your enemy alot of the time which is a good thing.

Also, let's work on persuasion - Show we're reasonable and conscientious sports men and women. And use our strong points to bring our sport into a far better light than it is current being viewed. (BTW What people actually believe and what the meedja would have us believe they believe, are very different IMHO - I don't think Joe Public is as "Anti" shooting sports as we would ourselves think).

Couldnt have said that better.

dCorbus

I'm not going to make any apologies for my post

No need to apologise 4gun IMHO

but you've pointed out in your last post exactly why we need to tread carefully:

I'm not going to make any apologies for my post earlier I certinly put enough smilies around it to show any sane person that it was a post not to be taken literally or so I thought

It's not the sane and rational we have to contend with!:rolleyes::D

we can do something about the politicans the next time there is a general election, thats when gun clubs could lobby potential T.D's

Don't wait til the next election - Start lobbying and persuading now! He who shouts the longest and loudest will be heard over the din of all and sundry trying to get their spoke in come election time. Why wait til election time?

until then, it will all done through the courts

That's only one approach - and that won't gain shooters any good PR IMHO. It'll just be one more set of stories in the media about us crazy gun-toting weapon-lovers :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: wanting to have our bang-bang-toys.

Let them get on with writing mis-informed and badly researched pieces. Let's, in the meantime, take a more positive note and get involved in good PR events such as the St. Patricks Day idea you suggested earlier.

Oh, did any shooting organisation / club organise a charity event recently? The world and its mother are stepping forward to raise funds for the disaster in Haiti - Did we as a community do anything collective to help?

If we did, great - But I didn't hear about it.
If we didn't - Why not?

To be seen as a valued and trusted element of the community and society, we must step forward and act accordingly.

(And before anyone kicks me for suggesting we use raising money for charity as a way to advance our own standing in society.......yes, it's shallow, despicable, self-serving.....but it works!:D)

daveob007

Some great ideas here,why not do something like promoting our olympic hopefuls in the shooting sports.
each club could appoint a pr officer and even the shooting bodies like narspc nargc olympic council of ireland etc etc could do the same.
we do need to sell ourselves as the responsible people that we are because there are plenty out there who will do the opposite.

dCorbus

hi daveob007

There was some chat on this particular very subject before Christmas and some very slight movement was made. Nothing much has yet come from the chat but things may be moving slowly in the right direction.

All the various NGB's have their own PRO's and they are working away (presumably:D) - I know NASPRC have update their website and are looking very long and hard at the PR side of things - so watch that space!:)

our olympic hopefuls in the shooting sports

Unfortunately, there's not too many of them to push forward at this particular time!:o:rolleyes:

olympic council of ireland

Not really qualified to comment on that - but from the little I do know / have heard, I wouldn't be holding my breathe for the IOC to be promoting the shooting sports - but I'll stand to be corrected on that by those far better in the know.

each club could appoint a pr officer

I agree - each club should - it doesn't need PR in capital letters to get good news across to people.

we do need to sell ourselves as the responsible people

We (i.e. All shooters) are the only one's to do it. No-one else is going to do it for us - And why should they?

sharky0922

what can you expect from a country where even fireworks is banned? :rolleyes:

there should be campaign comparing shooting to others sports/activities..
" if you think guns are bad then ban this too.. "
lets ban fishing! since there so many people fishing illegally/drowning!
lets ban hurling! there far to many injures!skydiving! flying..etc. excuse "because something bad can happens.. " it so easy to defeat in fair and fact based discussion.
if we compare shooting to usual activities , then normal people understand us! why theres no ads fighting with this "new system"? and showing how stupid/ignorant some people are (money)

maybe something like that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCnbs67syao
or this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiwN9Ucy2lk

dCorbus

thanks sharky0922

But there's a lot of things banned in Ireland - Target Shooting is not one of them.

Fireworks have nothing to do with Firearms.:D

there should be campaign comparing shooting to others sports/activities..
" if you think guns are bad then ban this too.. "
lets ban fishing! since there so many people fishing illegally/drowning!
lets ban hurling! there far to many injures!skydiving! flying..etc. excuse "because something bad can happens.. "

I agree that we should stand up and be counted as sports men and women - but in a positive way, not in the negative way you suggest.

What use is it to us as shooters to point out other sports safety records? That will not win us any friends - and will assuredly gain us many more enemies.

Our safety record in target shooting is not a news story nor is it the basis for a public relations campaign - It is a fact that cannot be disputed and we should be rightfully proud of it - but you don't see Leinster or Munster rugby (or any other sport that springs to mind for that matter) promoting themselves on the basis of a reduction in injuries or whatever to their players and spectators, do you?:rolleyes:

showing how stupid/ignorant some people are

Again, you'll win no friends and influence nobody by pointing out to them how stupid and ignorant they are. Trust me on that one!;) You can however try to persuade them to examine the error of their ways and (calmly and politely) explain how the "facts" upon which their opinions may be based may in fact not be facts at all.:)

Let's try to think more positively - put out the good news, the positive spin, and not be always looking for and projecting the negative side of the story (Bans, Courts, Why-the-world-doesn't-love-us, etc. :rolleyes:):D

meathstevie

Folks, the gunclub I'm in has a tradition of participating in the town's St Patrick's Day parade. Two years ago we didn't for some obscure insurance reason and practically got a bollocking from the organising comittee. And to say even more, it's nice to get an approving nod from a fairly senior Garda sitting on the reviewing stand. A few of our boys were even carrying an open shotgun and a rifle with bolt removed in the parade and to the best of my knowledge not a single negative comment was made about it.

There's only one way to convince the public of the justification of private firearms ownership and that's showing the people why we as law abiding owners have guns. It doesn't matter whether it's protecting crops and livestock from vermin, putting a bit of self procured meat on the table, participating in skills sports upto an Olympic and world standard level. The bottom line is that the people need to be convinced of our legitimate aims AND that we have ABSOLUTLY no common ground to share with gun toting murderous scum.

dCorbus

Folks, the gunclub I'm in has a tradition of participating in the town's St Patrick's Day parade

Fair play!:)