average recession wedding gift??

Tim Robbins

RoverJames wrote: »

I reckon most of the folks posting here have gotten wads of cash off Mummy and Daddy or the in laws but obviously they won't admit that.

Yeah the reactions are a bit strange. Anyone I know with a celtic tiger mortgage is freaked out and anyone I know who has a nice house with no mortgage seems to be on a completely different buzz.

Most of the stupid presents we got were from such people - nice big houses very little mortgage. It's not the lack of them giving me money it's the complete waste of money they engaged in. If they buy expensive glasses that no-one uses - it's just a complete the money would be better off going to a charity.

It would be very strange if I didn't have a preference in the presents we got. My preference is based on practicalities and my responsibilities as a parent.

I was surprised to hear whoopsadaisydoodles say they had a massive mortgage.But there you go. What about a pension? Do you have one of them? give us an example of a money worry you have had in your life in the last two years?

Tim Robbins

RoverJames wrote: »

As someone else said traditionally it's meant to be a bit of a helping hand to start ye off. I reckon most of the folks posting here have gotten wads of cash off Mummkeey and Daddy or the in laws but obviously they won't admit that.

I was chatting to my Mum about this. Yeah traditionally it is about a gift to help you off. but we already have a toaster, glasses, plates and we're lucky enough to even have wooden floors. The best help anyone could give us to help us off is money.

Simple as.

Tim Robbins

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Biologically yes but I / we wanted to be married first. Are we not allowed to have that opinion?

Absolutely, I agree with it also.

An it's an apartment not a house.

Same as myself then

Because if you don't mind me saying you sound like you are just wum'ing.

I have no idea what that means

Everyone has a preference in what presents they get. Some prefer materials things, some prefer holidays, some prefer money, some prefer nothing at all and give the money to charity.

Of course everyone has a preference, I have never said otherwise, but to talk about "stupid" presents that people probably put alot of thought into. Is, in my opinion, disgusting. I would be (and was) grateful for any and all presents I received on my wedding day.

We preferred money because of our personal circumstances.

I understand and agree that money is a great gift to receive. Absolutely. I just wouldn't talk about the "material" gifts that I received as if they were rubbish.

I don't know what your personal circumstances are?

Why do you need to? It makes no difference to how I feel about greed/appreciation of my friends/family

Are you in negative equity?

Yes, my apartment is worth about 150k less than I paid for it.

Do you have good job security?

Some people have been let go from my job. Last Tuesday we were told we were taking a pay cut. My husband took a huge paycut at the beginning of the year. His whole team were made redundant, thankfully he is one of two that were kept - for now. Again, what difference does this make?

Can you afford health insurance for your kids?

Irrelevant. But yes, I make sure I can afford it.

It's a regular thing for people to give someone money as a present.

It certainly is. I never said it wasn't. I don't think there is anything whatsoever wrong with giving cash. Infact, I've never given anything except cash as a wedding gift. And I go to alot of weddings.

Maybe you don't really have money problems or never have and can't empathise with that concept.

As you said you don't know my personal circumstances, I'm not going to go into my personal details in a wedding thread but I can tell you this much, there is no way on earth I would be getting married unless I could afford to do it the way I wanted without relying on gift to cover costs.

Tim Robbins

Deleted User wrote: »

I have no idea what that means
[/QUOTE
WUM-= Wind up Merchant.

Of course everyone has a preference, I have never said otherwise, but to talk about "stupid" presents that people probably put alot of thought into. Is, in my opinion, disgusting. I would be (and was) grateful for any and all presents I received on my wedding day.

They were stupid, they put no thought into them. They just thought about what they'd like? Even thought their lifes, needs and taste are very different.

Even a modicum of thought would have realise we don't have the shelf space in the apartment and hence such presents are useless.

I understand and agree that money is a great gift to receive. Absolutely. I just wouldn't talk about the "material" gifts that I received as if they were rubbish.

Well you cannot dispute they are useless. They are of no use to anyone.

Why do you need to? It makes no difference to how I feel about greed/appreciation of my friends/family

Of course it does. If you don't have a mortgage, have rich folks, a big bucks job, a big inheritance on the way some day from your folks, your frames of references are completely different.

Some people have been let go from my job. Last Tuesday we were told we were taking a pay cut. My husband took a huge paycut at the beginning of the year. His whole team were made redundant, thankfully he is one of two that were kept - for now. Again, what difference does this make?

My wife took a 100% pay cut as her job went. I was very lucky to hang onto my job last year.

So it looks like our frames of references are different.

Irrelevant. But yes, I make sure I can afford it.

Of course it's relevant. If you couldn't afford it your interpretation of money would be different.

It certainly is. I never said it wasn't. I don't think there is anything whatsoever wrong with giving cash. Infact, I've never given anything except cash as a wedding gift. And I go to alot of weddings.

Well then you're contradicting yourself.

As you said you don't know my personal circumstances, I'm not going to go into my personal details in a wedding thread but I can tell you this much, there is no way on earth I would be getting married unless I could afford to do it the way I wanted without relying on gift to cover costs.

We didn't rely on gifts to cover costs. I just much more greatly appreciated presents that had a very good use than ones that had no use at all. This is a rational stance to take and in my case, the best use was money and the useless presents were fancy glasses and bowls.

If you're loaded or you don't have similar financial pressures, your best use, no use spectrum will be different to mine. And it was no co-incidence the better friends, the ones that were more in tune with my life gave the best presents and the ones that are a bit aloof and in the clouds gave the most useless ones.

And the scabs gave nothing at all:-)

Now if anyone wants to give me some money - PM me!

I can't really be arsed quoting you again.

I spent the whole of 2008 out of work as the company I was in went under. I started in my current job in Jan 09. Prior to that, soon after my wedding, I was very very sick, I was out of work for a long time. So, you know, everyone goes through sh*tty times.

I have no idea how you think I was contradicting myself. I never once in this or any other thread said that money was not a great gift to give/receive. I did say (in another thread) that it should not be expected. And I think in this one that it should not be relied on to pay for the wedding.

I will say it again for clarification, there is nothing wrong with giving/receiving even hoping for cash as wedding gifts. But a wedding should be a wonderful joyous occasion where friends and family are invited to share in the biggest day of your lives. If all you are interested in is what presents they bring then you're doing it wrong.

Toots

I think there is a difference between 'expecting' and 'relying' on cash gifts for a wedding. Obviously you can expect to receive some cash gifts, either from people who know that's what you want, or people who simply can't think of anything else to get you. That's grand, and I personally wouldn't hold it against someone, but I think whatever you get you should be grateful for. Relying on cash gifts at the moment is complete lunacy right now, it's an extremely risky strategy and you could well find yourself with a considerable shortfall at the end of it.

And before anyone asks, I have a 'celtic tiger mortgage', in negative equity of about €200k, am on a pretty paltry salary, my Fiancé who is the main earner has been told that he will probably be laid off before the year is out(he was already put on temporary layoff for a few months last year), and because of the nature of his work, he might not be entitled to any redundancy payoff, so I am by no means in a comfortable position financially.

WaltKowalski

Tim Robbins wrote: »

The average person who got a cetlic tiger morgage is down between 50 and 200k. You accept that is a lot of money?
As do we all.

Well I'd give more if I don't have to spend 150 to stay in an hotel or 500 to go on stag.
It's simple stuff really.

I didn't buy an overpriced house in the last few years - thankfully.

If I didn't have enough money to attend a wedding and give the gift I want to give, then I wouldn't bother with hen/stag. I'll drive home rather than pay to stay in a hotel.

Considering all the judgement - I just want to add that I'm engaged to be married.
My ring cost €175 and I love it. We're having 32 guests - close friends and family only - as that's all we can afford to pay for. I'll be grateful for any gift we get.

I've been to 10 weddings in the last 2 and half years. Gave cash gifts to all. And all couples would have a lot more money than me!
I had to buy a new dress just before one which meant that I didn't have the money to buy any drink the whole day long. I still left all the cash in the card rather than taking some out and spending it on a few drinks for myself.

Unless the couple getting married is super wealthy - then without a doubt cash is the best present to give.

I give prizebonds to newborns, cash for communion, confirmation, birthdays, 21sts, 30ths.

Cash is king!

Tim Robbins

Deleted User wrote: »

I have no idea how you think I was contradicting myself.

Because you are giving out to people who like to receive money but at the sametime you go out of your way to give money to people

I did say (in another thread) that it should not be expected.

And who said they 'Expected' it?

I think you really need to thnk about your arguments here. You sound very confused and misunderstanding of people who thought money was a great present and things they have no use for were useless.

And I think in this one that it should not be relied on to pay for the wedding.

Well I never said that.

I will say it again for clarification, there is nothing wrong with giving/receiving even hoping for cash as wedding gifts.

Good I don't know what your problem with me is.

But a wedding should be a wonderful joyous occasion where friends and family are invited to share in the biggest day of your lives. If all you are interested in is what presents they bring then you're doing it wrong.

Now this is really ridiculous. Who said that that's all they are really interested in? You are completely misunderstanding, misrepresenting people.

Maybe you should read people posts more closely and if you are not sure ask a question because your understanding of me is quite frankly ridiculous.

Tim Robbins

Toots* wrote: »

I think there is a difference between 'expecting' and 'relying' on cash gifts for a wedding.

There is also a difference between both of them thinking money is a great present and something that is useless is useless. It doesn't fit into either the "relying" or "expecting" box you've dumbed this down to.

Because you are giving out to people who like to receive money but at the sametime you go out of your way to give money to people

Do me a favour and quote where I "gave out to people who like to receive money". Thanks.

And who said they 'Expected' it?

Eh, they did, in that particular thread

I think you really need to thnk about your arguments here. You sound very confused and misunderstanding of people who thought money was a great present and things they have no use for were useless.

There is no confusion. People should be grateful for all gifts they receive. If they're so bad and useless. Sell them. But don't bitch about the people who gave them to you.

Well I never said that.

Did I say you did? nooo, I didn't. Read the OP. This thread isn't about you.

Good I don't know what your problem with me is.

My only problem with people like you is how you speak about your friends and family who went to the trouble of giving you presents. I think it's disgusting

Now this is really ridiculous. Who said that that's all they are really interested in? You are completely misunderstanding, misrepresenting people.

It's the impression you give. I assure you that I am not the only one who thinks it

Maybe you should read people posts more closely and if you are not sure ask a question because your understanding of me is quite frankly ridiculous.

Like your understanding of me was that I had no money worries :rolleyes:
Read my posts and find where I gave out to anyone, where I said money was a bad gift.

Goodnight. I really hope that in time, you learn to appreciate people and be grateful for the things you have

And OP, I hope you have a lovely wedding, I urge you not to rely on gifts to pay for your meal as you may end up disappointed and in debt as a result. I understand times are tough but it will take the good out of your day if you are worrying about paying for it.

amdublin

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Do you have a morgage or a big bucks job?

I have a big bucks mortgage and a pretty average job

RoverJames wrote: »

Probably got a helping hand off the folks, or if not a free house or something.

Nope. I just saved for my house deposit. And then we saved for our wedding.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Oh come one! People giving you expensive glasses when you have two shelves in your apartment is a little bit silly. My mother's sisters had they cop on not to give us anything stupid and very kindly and thoughtfully gave us money which we could do whatever we wanted to with.

I'm honest to god lost on what to reply to this.

RoverJames wrote: »

The folks in this thread Tim reckon that expecting any monetary gift for your wedding is not on and makes you an awful sort of person. As someone else said traditionally it's meant to be a bit of a helping hand to start ye off. I reckon most of the folks posting here have gotten wads of cash off Mummy and Daddy or the in laws but obviously they won't admit that.

Re the "expecting" : Eh, yes you've pretty much made my point there.

Re "wads of cash from Mummy & Daddy" : Nope, I just saved the money up for the wedding.

OP - best of luck for your wedding. IMO you should not rely on presents to pay for your wedding.

Goodbye all!

Tim Robbins

Deleted User wrote: »

Do me a favour and quote where I "gave out to people who like to receive money". Thanks.

Eh - you suggested I shouldn't even have got married ffs and accused me for blaming my guests for losing my apartment.

There is no confusion. People should be grateful for all gifts they receive. If they're so bad and useless. Sell them. But don't bitch about the people who gave them to you.

Why should someone be grateful for something useless? That's completely irrational.

My only problem with people like you is how you speak about your friends and family who went to the trouble of giving you presents. I think it's disgusting

Well I think it's completely irrational to pretend to be happy with something that is useless and a complete waste of money. I can see the point in pretending to them I am happy because I don't hurt their feelings but why should I pretend to you, billybigunz, Toots or the OP. That's ridiculous.

Like your understanding of me was that I had no money worries :rolleyes:
Read my posts and find where I gave out to anyone, where I said money was a bad gift.

Goodnight. I really hope that in time, you learn to appreciate people and be grateful for the things you have

No I hate everything I have, I am never grateful for anything.

And OP, I hope you have a lovely wedding, I urge you not to rely on gifts to pay for your meal as you may end up disappointed and in debt as a result. I understand times are tough but it will take the good out of your day if you are worrying about paying for it.

I think everyone would agree with that and I don't think you need to point it out the OP because it's friggin obvious.

Tim Robbins

amdublin wrote: »

I'm honest to god lost on what to reply to this.

Do you accept the reality that expensive glasses are completely useless to me?

Or do you expect me to throw out my normal dunnes stores glasses and drink out of silly expensive designer glasses?

amdublin

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Do you accept the reality that expensive glasses are completely useless to me?

Or do you expect me to throw out my normal dunnes stores glasses and drink out of silly expensive designer glasses?

How about you forget the present and think about the person and how they were there to celebrate your big day with you?

Or are they "silly" and "useless" too?

Toots

Tim Robbins wrote: »

There is also a difference between both of them thinking money is a great present and something that is useless is useless. It doesn't fit into either the "relying" or "expecting" box you've dumbed this down to.

I'm not dumbing it down, and I never even mentioned usefulness of presents. My point was that while you could 'expect' to get a certain amount of cash gifts, it's foolhardy to 'rely' on it as it could backfire on you entirely. I also said you should be grateful for whatever gifts you receive, which is true, regardless of whether or not you find it useful.

If the non-cash gifts were so useless, why don't you sell them? It would free up some space and would generate a bit of cash. Or if you can't sell them, why not give them to a charity shop? If you really don't want them, then what's the point in keeping them? I'm not saying this in a sarcastic way, it's a genuine suggestion. A cousin of mine did this a few years ago, she got a load of stuff when she got married and about a year later realised that she didn't need or want half of it, so she loaded up the car and brought it all down to a local car boot sale. Anything she didn't sell, she gave to the local charity shop. She benefited by clearing out the things she didn't need or want, and made a bit of cash on it, and the charity shop benefited from the donation also.

Tim Robbins

amdublin wrote: »

How about you forget the present and think about the person and how they were there to celebrate your big day with you?

Or are they "silly" and "useless" too?

If you can't answer a simple question what's the point in discussing :rolleyes:

Tim Robbins

Toots* wrote: »

I'm not dumbing it down, and I never even mentioned usefulness of presents. My point was that while you could 'expect' to get a certain amount of cash gifts, it's foolhardy to 'rely' on it as it could backfire on you entirely.

I agree it's foolhardy to 'rely' on it as it could backfire on you entirely,

I also said you should be grateful for whatever gifts you receive, which is true, regardless of whether or not you find it useful.

Disagree. Why should one be grateful for something that is useless and thoughtless? That completely demeans the point of being grateful for something that is useful and thoughtful ffs.

If the non-cash gifts were so useless, why don't you sell them? It would free up some space and would generate a bit of cash. Or if you can't sell them, why not give them to a charity shop? If you really don't want them, then what's the point in keeping them?

We did that with some of the gifts already. We don't have any of them in our apartment because we have no room for any of the crap.

Toots

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Disagree. Why should one be grateful for something that is useless and thoughtless? That completely demeans the point of being grateful for something that is useful and thoughtful ffs.

Not trying to be argumentative here, but how do you know they were totally thoughtless? Some people aren't great at buying presents, but they might have put a lot of effort into picking out a gift. Not saying this is what happened in your case, but it could happen that someone would put a lot of time and though into picking something they think is a lovely present for someone, but it just might not be to their taste/ they might have it already etc.

whatdoicare

I see everyone here on both sides of the argument have very valid points-
the general consensus is: don't expect anything and be pleasantly surprised with what you get.

For the OP:
I generally give what myself and partner reckon we cost the couple: usually around 150 Euros- Couples give plenty of notice of weddings and we take the time to put aside a little each week, a fiver here and there for them.
If I'm really close to them, I'll buy something from the wedding bill ie: the cake.

The one point I do want to make though is for those giving gifts:
No matter how much love and thought went into it, unless you're 110% (impossible, I know) sure that what you're giving is what the couple needs and wants then you're just pushing your own ego onto them ie:
"I want the couple to always remember me and only me forever more as an individual out of 50/100/150/200 whatever guests who attended said wedding and I don't care what they need or think really- so long as my gift is displayed in their home, so I can see it, when I visit, however frequent or rare that might be."
I see it as a totally selfish act, if they really did know the couple then they would give what is needed and would already know what it is they needed.

In our family those who will be remembered fondly will be those, who without mine or my OHs knowledge, paid for pieces of our wedding. (ie: they bought the cake, my dress, the photo album, cake topper) They helped us make our day extra special and every single photo will have those relations' gifts stamped all over them.
The relatives who buy us crystal, toasters, cutlery or whatever will be the ones who we will remember as the ones who didn't bother to get to know us enough to know that that was not an appropriate gift.

Sorry about the essay or if I come across as mean or that but that's just how it is.

Tim Robbins

Toots* wrote: »

Not trying to be argumentative here, but how do you know they were totally thoughtless?

Because what they got us has absolutely nothing to do with our tastes, needs, reflection of where we're at in life etc? They also know I hate flashy stuff and general buy simple things or ethical based things.

And I don't think it's that difficult to figure something like you don't have much space in an apartment out.

Tim Robbins

whatdoicare wrote: »

The relatives who buy us crystal, toasters, cutlery or whatever will be the ones who we will remember as the ones who didn't bother to get to know us enough to know that that was not an appropriate gift.

And what's your opinion of young people who buy such useless presents?
You'd think they'd have more cop on.

CathyMoran

The obsession with money on this thread is scary...the presence of the guests should be enough and if you do not have the money then have a smaller wedding or elope.

For the record, yes my parents did pay for the wedding and honeymoon but it cost less than 5k in total, my brother paid for my wig, we had 15 guests...we would have saved up and paid for all of it ourselves but as the bride it looked highly unlikely at the time that I would be alive in 6 months time, let alone over 3 years later.

Sorry about the rant but a wedding should be about the start of married life, not about a money making scheme. OP, my advice is to not expect money, but if you do get it be greatful.

Tim Robbins

CathyMoran wrote: »

Sorry about the rant but a wedding should be about the start of married life, not about a money making scheme. OP, my advice is to not expect money, but if you do get it be greatful.

I don't think anyone looks at it as a money making scheme and I seriously doubt anyone makes any money from their wedding as the things cost so much. What people are saying is that they prefer money as a present than waterford crystal, for pretty obvious reasons. This simple expression of preference (and gratitude to mates who have the cop to give money) seems to be getting misconstrued that people have money on the brain. Yes, it's a bit sad that people prefer money, me included but this is a reflection of times we live in and the lack of imagination and thought that goes into cr*p and useless presents such as crystal bowls.

We're in a recession and it's affecting some a hell of a lot more than others Cathy. It can be difficult to understand other peoples finacial pressures. Some people may have lost 150K on their gaf, but they may have good job security. Others may have lost 200K on their gaf have no job security but have rich folks. There are so many parameters that determine your finacial situation it's logically unlikely that people are the same.

So it can be tricky understanding someone else's frames of references. That's what I think is sad - that some people think they can understand everyone else's frames of references and then judge them objectively.

Tim Robbins

I was just wondering if we could leave the misunderstandings about "expectation", "appreciating" and thinking waterford crystal is a load of crap, what is actually wrong with expecting money?

I mean, people use wedding lists with gifts on it. By doing this, they are publically declaring that if you are going to give them a gift they expect it to be from their list.

What makes those people any better or worse than people who expect money?

I don't expect money but I can't see how I have the right to tell other people what is morally right to expect or not expect. What gives you the notion that you know what's right and what's morally wrong to know what other people should expect? Is it the bible? Is it some killer philosophical argument from Kant?

I am perplexed about where you get your moral highground from on this
issue.

If you look at stags and hens, the costs are usually split up and everyone pays their way. But if some poor couple were do something similar for their wedding, people here would get on their high horses and scold them for it. I would have no problem with someone telling me exactly what it costs for me to attend their wedding and giving me the option to pay for it or not attend. That's what happens on stags and it works pretty well.

If there's all this magical mysticism and morals rules for the wedding why not be consistent and apply them for your hen and your stag where thankfully a bit of finacial rationality is prevailing over your mystic moral notions about present etiquette.

CathyMoran

We did not have a wedding list, personally I am not a fan of those and again we just wanted to be married...we did not have a stag or a hen as again my husband and I are not into those things. I fully understand that we are probably unique in that regard...we just wanted to be officially joined. I accept that my life experiences may have been more unusual than most for someone who is only 35 now and it has made my views different but for me money would never have been even a minute factor in a wedding...I think that it devalues the whole thing.

Tim Robbins

CathyMoran wrote: »

We did not have a wedding list, personally I am not a fan of those and again we just wanted to be married...we did not have a stag or a hen as again my husband and I are not into those things. I fully understand that we are probably unique in that regard...we just wanted to be officially joined. I accept that my life experiences may have been more unusual than most for someone who is only 35 now and it has made my views different but for me money would never have been even a minute factor in a wedding...I think that it devalues the whole thing.

Ok you are not a fan of hens and stags or wedding lists, where there is an expectation that people pay their way or buy such and such a present, but you don't scold people who are fans of such things.

However, you are not just "not a fan" of people who "expect" money for a wedding present, you scold them. Do you not see the inconsistency?

Because I clearly pointed this inconsistency out but I don't think you get it.

You also didn't answer my question where you get the right to morally judge people on their expectations? I believe I don't have that right. I am wondering what makes you think you have it?

CathyMoran

I just believe that a marriage should be about love...again, money cheapens things.

Tim Robbins

CathyMoran wrote: »

I just believe that a marriage should be about love...again, money cheapens things.

But no-one is talking about a marriage, we are talking about a wedding.

Could you please answer the specific questions?

Specific question 1: repeated twice now.

Ok you are not a fan of hens and stags or wedding lists, where there is an expectation that people pay their way or buy such and such a present, but you don't scold people who are fans of such things.

However, you are not just "not a fan" of people who "expect" money for a wedding present, you scold them. Do you not see the inconsistency?

Specific question 2: Repeated twice now

You also didn't answer my question where you get the right to morally judge people on their expectations? I believe I don't have that right. I am wondering what makes you think you have it?

Tim Robbins

Holy smuck. Prompt them to answer specific questions and they all grab their coats.

Here's another point I'd put to you:

Everyone has some sort of expectation for their wedding / hen / stag.

You may not expect any presents at all but you probably expect people to wear reasonable clothes and not turn up in tracksuits. The inescapable fact is everyone has their own expectations. It's human nature to just think your's are normal and valid and someone else's who has different expectations are invalid.

There's a number of people in this thread who seem to think they have the moral highground to invalidate other people expectations but can't give one logical reason for it.

Even it you try something like: "A wedding should only be about love", well you could apply that to refute any expectation. Someone turns up in a tracksuit - well don't get grumpy because your Wedding is supposed to be about love and how does someone wearing a tracksuit make your love any less.

I really think some people really haven't thought this through. It's usually the case with puritans who preach their morality they forget a bit of self examination and that's where their arguments fall apart. Unless you're a buddhist monk you have some sense of expectation from other people about your wedding that has nothing to do with how much you love your partner and you're declaration of lifelong commitment to each other.

CathyMoran

Sorry, I could not and still can not see your points or what you want me to address as I have been perfectly blunt. I will state again that I disagree with people expecting money for their wedding...have a smaller wedding if needs be.

We had an aunt who just turned up for the mass and was not done up...who cares, was just thrilled that she was there.

I had just got through 3 months of very intense chemo, my chances of surviving were less than 8%...I really only care/cared about my husband...the only reason that we did not elope is that I was too ill and I wanted my dad to walk me down the ille...

whatdoicare

Tim Robbins wrote: »

And what's your opinion of young people who buy such useless presents?
You'd think they'd have more cop on.

Relatives does not equal older people...I'm talking about everyone who does this who's related to or knows me and my OH.:)

Bottom line: if you have no idea what the couples house looks like or what their tastes are, getting them random gifts- no matter how hard you shopped to get them or how much love is behind it- is just gonna be a hit and miss situation.
Cash is always the way to go in situations like that.

whatdoicare

CathyMoran wrote: »

I just believe that a marriage should be about love...again, money cheapens things.

I'd love to see you pull that line on a hotel! That would be wicked cool!

Marriage is indeed all about love but Weddings are all about celebrating it with food, music and merriment...none of that is free and relatives, friends etc do like to give something to the couple as a thank you for all the good food and music etc.. so it's unavoidable that the couple will end up with some crazy gifts, some lovely gifts and money.

I'd like to avoid the crazy gifts though....:)

Tim Robbins

CathyMoran wrote: »

Sorry, I could not and still can not see your points or what you want me to address as I have been perfectly blunt. I will state again that I disagree with people expecting money for their wedding...have a smaller wedding if needs be.

We had an aunt who just turned up for the mass and was not done up...who cares, was just thrilled that she was there.

I had just got through 3 months of very intense chemo, my chances of surviving were less than 8%...I really only care/cared about my husband...the only reason that we did not elope is that I was too ill and I wanted my dad to walk me down the ille...

While I sympathise with your medical situation you're not addressing any of the questions or points I put to you :rolleyes:

You have a right to your opinion but when you ignore others it comes across as if your own opinion is unquestionable or just not very well thought out.

I have tried really hard by re-posting what you've ignored but you still ignore them. That's ignorant to expect someone to listen to you when you clearly won't listen to them.

Kooli

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Holy smuck. Prompt them to answer specific questions and they all grab their coats.

Here's another point I'd put to you:

Everyone has some sort of expectation for their wedding / hen / stag.

You may not expect any presents at all but you probably expect people to wear reasonable clothes and not turn up in tracksuits. The inescapable fact is everyone has their own expectations. It's human nature to just think your's are normal and valid and someone else's who has different expectations are invalid.

There's a number of people in this thread who seem to think they have the moral highground to invalidate other people expectations but can't give one logical reason for it.

Even it you try something like: "A wedding should only be about love", well you could apply that to refute any expectation. Someone turns up in a tracksuit - well don't get grumpy because your Wedding is supposed to be about love and how does someone wearing a tracksuit make your love any less.

I really think some people really haven't thought this through. It's usually the case with puritans who preach their morality they forget a bit of self examination and that's where their arguments fall apart. Unless you're a buddhist monk you have some sense of expectation from other people about your wedding that has nothing to do with how much you love your partner and you're declaration of lifelong commitment to each other.

Am I missing the parts where someone said that others who held any expectations about their wedding were in the wrong? I know some have said that expecting money is wrong, but I think most people who said that meant it in the sense of 'Expecting money to the extent that you will be disappointed with other gifts or be in debt afterwards is wrong' rather than 'To hold the thought in your mind that you might get cash as gifts is wrong'

And you can't compare it to a hen or a stag. A hen or a stag is an event put on BY the friends FOR the bride/groom, so of course they pay. A wedding is put on by the couple for their friends, so their friends should not have to pay.

And by the way, in case you're wondering, i'm also of the opinion that I will be delighted if I get cash at my wedding, but I'll also be delighted with vouchers or other gifts. I'd be surprised if anyone gave me nothing, but I wouldn't bitch about it. I'm throwing a party for everyone I love to watch me get married, I'm not gonna bitch about them afterwards for not giving me good enough 'stuff'.

Kooli

Tim Robbins wrote: »

But no-one is talking about a marriage, we are talking about a wedding.


Specific question 1: repeated twice now.

Ok you are not a fan of hens and stags or wedding lists, where there is an expectation that people pay their way or buy such and such a present, but you don't scold people who are fans of such things.

However, you are not just "not a fan" of people who "expect" money for a wedding present, you scold them. Do you not see the inconsistency?

?

I don't actually see an inconsistency here. Are you saying that if you don't like something personally, you should either always scold others who do like it, or never scold others who do like it, and that you should live by this rule across all circumstances and situations??

Teddy Chips

Myself and my gfriend are both on the dole at the moment. We have been invited to a wedding of a cousin of mine in April. The thing is we are really tight for cash at the moment and can't really afford a cash gift. At the same time we would be too embarrassed to turn up with no gift. Would it be rude to wrap up a few DVD's we don't like, they are all in perfect order, say 10?

Tim Robbins

Kooli wrote: »

And you can't compare it to a hen or a stag. A hen or a stag is an event put on BY the friends FOR the bride/groom, so of course they pay. A wedding is put on by the couple for their friends, so their friends should not have to pay.

Who puts it on has nothing to do with it. Say you organise your own stag an you'd love to have your mates there, by your logic you should pay for it and you should not expect your mates to.

Do you see how illogical your position is?

Tim Robbins

Kooli wrote: »

I don't actually see an inconsistency here. Are you saying that if you don't like something personally, you should either always scold others who do like it, or never scold others who do like it, and that you should live by this rule across all circumstances and situations??

No I am saying you should put your moral judgements on other people expectations unless you can give a logical reason which is somewhat consistent and not arbitary.

It's quite simple why do I have to keep repeating a simple argument which no-one has dealt with?

whatdoicare

Teddy Chips wrote: »

Myself and my gfriend are both on the dole at the moment. We have been invited to a wedding of a cousin of mine in April. The thing is we are really tight for cash at the moment and can't really afford a cash gift. At the same time we would be too embarrassed to turn up with no gift. Would it be rude to wrap up a few DVD's we don't like, they are all in perfect order, say 10?

A better idea would be to explain yr situation and to offer yr sevices to help get jobs done such as making sure reception is going to plan or that suits get collected or if you've the knack, offer to take photos of the day in a story book style and put on a dvd...anything but regifting rubbish you don't want.

Diddler1977

Teddy Chips wrote: »

Myself and my gfriend are both on the dole at the moment. We have been invited to a wedding of a cousin of mine in April. The thing is we are really tight for cash at the moment and can't really afford a cash gift. At the same time we would be too embarrassed to turn up with no gift. Would it be rude to wrap up a few DVD's we don't like, they are all in perfect order, say 10?

Maybe you could do something like picking up the B&G from the airport after the honeymoon in lieu of a present.

I am sure your cousin will be delighted to see you at the wedding whether you bring a present or not.

Most Bride & Grooms invite guests because they want them to celebrate their special day with them.

Your cousin is hardly inviting you purely to get a present from you.

A nice card with a special inscription is perfect!

Kooli

Tim Robbins wrote: »

No I am saying you should put your moral judgements on other people expectations unless you can give a logical reason which is somewhat consistent and not arbitary.

It's quite simple why do I have to keep repeating a simple argument which no-one has dealt with?

You can keep repeating it but it doesn't mean people have to agree with you!

Why is it inconsistent to judge two different situations differently? They're different!

tatli_lokma

Tim obviously has never heard of the general rule of good manners which is to be grateful for whatever you get and bear in mind its the thought that counts!

In all honesty, yes it is true, some peoples 'thoughts' are very misplaced and they buy what THEY think is a nice present rather than what they know you would like. But hey, thats life. If you didn't like the present, don't keep it, and GET OVER IT!!!! the day you are talking about is your wedding day, the day you make a committment to the person you love -not the day you have just to get loads of presents!

You pointed out several times that you are in a way offended by the lack of thought people put into the gift, how it showed a lack of knowledge or understanding of you as a person - in that case, why did you invite them? If they are not that close then they cannot be expected to know your personal taste, in which case they are hardly to be so badly berated for chosing wrongly.

Now that the day is over, and you have seen the value they place on a gift for you, can I ask, do you think less of them for having bought a useless present? Are the people who gave you more money towards your mortgage considered to be better friends? are the ones who gave less no longer as appreciated?

Tim, sorry but your attitude comes across like a spoiled child who didn't get what he wanted from Santa - right people bought crap presents, they wasted THEIR money, not yours, you had no use for the presents. Boo hoo, get over it. Its not the end of the world - if you were not expecting or relying (or whatever you care to call it) cash then you would not still be so hung up on it!

I find your attitude and your approach in general distasteful and rude.

Personally, cash was our preferred gift, but not particularly because we had financial worries or to pay for the wedding - if we were in that situation we would not have had a wedding and just have had a ceremony in the registry office. Any cash gifts we got we used to buy things we wanted and needed - in that way its still like the person gave us a gift in a way. Family offered money in the form of helping to pay for some things for the day such as my sis paid towards the DJ, my dad paid for the toast. Again, this was not expected, as we could have paid for it ourselves, but was very welcome. And by no means did a rich mammy and daddy fork out, before anyone lays that at me. We had a small wedding within our means.

I do accept that as is the way of human nature, we have all got a present we thought was crap, or a complete waste of money and we wish they had just given cash - we've ALL done that, so I don't wish to present myself as holier than thou. But I'm not still going on about it months later! All that happened is that they wasted their money, it didn't personally offend me so terribly that months later I am on a forum being blatanely rude about it!

Personally, the things I remember most about my wedding, are how wonderfully happy I was, and how lovely it was to have people I loved there. I don't look back on it and label each guest according to the 'usefulness' of their gift.

(one thought for a possible present......a short course of ettiquette lessons - for those people really who need to learn some manners! )

Kooli

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Who puts it on has nothing to do with it. Say you organise your own stag an you'd love to have your mates there, by your logic you should pay for it and you should not expect your mates to.

Do you see how illogical your position is?

Nope. My position is not illogical. The change you made in my position, thereby making it a new position about a different situation, is illogical. But that's not really anything to do with me!

My understanding of the hen and stag is that it is organised by your friends as a send-off. That's why I see it as different. And therefore my position with regards to difference between the wedding and hen/stag is consistent and logical, just how you like it!

You can introduce hypotheticals about stags or hens organised by the bride and groom themselves if you like, thereby introducing a new question.

If you had a 40th birthday party, would you split the cost of putting it on and give a bill to your friends, or expect cash gifts? I doubt it. But if you want to be perfectly consistent you probably should!

Kooli

Cincikchick wrote: »

Tim obviously has never heard of the general rule of good manners which is to be grateful for whatever you get and bear in mind its the thought that counts!

In all honesty, yes it is true, some peoples 'thoughts' are very misplaced and they buy what THEY think is a nice present rather than what they know you would like. But hey, thats life. If you didn't like the present, don't keep it, and GET OVER IT!!!! the day you are talking about is your wedding day, the day you make a committment to the person you love -not the day you have just to get loads of presents!

You pointed out several times that you are in a way offended by the lack of thought people put into the gift, how it showed a lack of knowledge or understanding of you as a person - in that case, why did you invite them? If they are not that close then they cannot be expected to know your personal taste, in which case they are hardly to be so badly berated for chosing wrongly.

Now that the day is over, and you have seen the value they place on a gift for you, can I ask, do you think less of them for having bought a useless present? Are the people who gave you more money towards your mortgage considered to be better friends? are the ones who gave less no longer as appreciated?

Tim, sorry but your attitude comes across like a spoiled child who didn't get what he wanted from Santa - right people bought crap presents, they wasted THEIR money, not yours, you had no use for the presents. Boo hoo, get over it. Its not the end of the world - if you were not expecting or relying (or whatever you care to call it) cash then you would not still be so hung up on it!

I find your attitude and your approach in general distasteful and rude.

Personally, cash was our preferred gift, but not particularly because we had financial worries or to pay for the wedding - if we were in that situation we would not have had a wedding and just have had a ceremony in the registry office. Any cash gifts we got we used to buy things we wanted and needed - in that way its still like the person gave us a gift in a way. Family offered money in the form of helping to pay for some things for the day such as my sis paid towards the DJ, my dad paid for the toast. Again, this was not expected, as we could have paid for it ourselves, but was very welcome. And by no means did a rich mammy and daddy fork out, before anyone lays that at me. We had a small wedding within our means.

I do accept that as is the way of human nature, we have all got a present we thought was crap, or a complete waste of money and we wish they had just given cash - we've ALL done that, so I don't wish to present myself as holier than thou. But I'm not still going on about it months later! All that happened is that they wasted their money, it didn't personally offend me so terribly that months later I am on a forum being blatanely rude about it!

Personally, the things I remember most about my wedding, are how wonderfully happy I was, and how lovely it was to have people I loved there. I don't look back on it and label each guest according to the 'usefulness' of their gift.

(one thought for a possible present......a short course of ettiquette lessons - for those people really who need to learn some manners! )

What he/she said!

But I'm sure Tim will just get back to you with questions/accusations about your logical inconsistencies and ignore everything else you've said...

Teddy Chips

Diddler1977 wrote: »

Maybe you could do something like picking up the B&G from the airport after the honeymoon in lieu of a present.

I am sure your cousin will be delighted to see you at the wedding whether you bring a present or not.

Most Bride & Grooms invite guests because they want them to celebrate their special day with them.

Your cousin is hardly inviting you purely to get a present from you.

A nice card with a special inscription is perfect!

Thank you for your kind words, I'll say a prayer for you. I have been having images of going through a panic attack at the wedding when people find out we didn't bring a gift.

tatli_lokma

Teddy Chips wrote: »

Thank you for your kind words, I'll say a prayer for you. I have been having images of going through a panic attack at the wedding when people find out we didn't bring a gift.

oh please don't be in a panic. If your cousins are decent people they will appreciate the circumstances you are in and will think no less of you for it.
One of my good friends recently lost her job and is having a tough time. In lieu of a present she gave me so much help for the wedding and for that I am truly grateful - more so than if she had given me €1000! What she did to show me how much me and my wedding meant to her, was worth far more than any monetary gift. Putting yourself out for the couple and helping them in a practical way will be remembered far longer than any gift (useless or otherwise!).

The couple may well feel like they don't want to impose on you, but be insistant that you want to help - as others said, collect them from the honeymoon, offer to bring and fetch, maybe volunteer to take care of the awkward auntie on the day (THAT will be much appreciated and probably a job no one else wants!).

If the couple care about you and you about them, then they will genuinely prefer that you are there empty handed then not at all. Some may disagree with this sentiment and accuse me and the others of being a pollyanna, but it is honestly the truth as far as I am concerned.

A good friend whom I think a lot of didn't come to our wedding - she made her excuses and still gave us €100. I later found out that the reason for her not coming was because her husband had just found out he was to be let go and her hours had been cut. I honestly wish she had kept the €100 and used it to attend and have a few drinks and share our day. Even now when I think what that gift of €100 actually cost us, I feel so disappointed. Her €100 cost us her presence - I would have preferred her presence than the money, and that is the truth.

Teddy Chips

Teddy Chips wrote: »

Thank you for your kind words, I'll say a prayer for you. I have been having images of going through a panic attack at the wedding when people find out we didn't bring a gift.

As folks have said, nothing at all to worry about, a nice message in the card and happy out. Be sure to enjoy the day

tinkerbell

Cincikchick wrote: »

Tim obviously has never heard of the general rule of good manners which is to be grateful for whatever you get and bear in mind its the thought that counts!

In all honesty, yes it is true, some peoples 'thoughts' are very misplaced and they buy what THEY think is a nice present rather than what they know you would like. But hey, thats life. If you didn't like the present, don't keep it, and GET OVER IT!!!! the day you are talking about is your wedding day, the day you make a committment to the person you love -not the day you have just to get loads of presents!

You pointed out several times that you are in a way offended by the lack of thought people put into the gift, how it showed a lack of knowledge or understanding of you as a person - in that case, why did you invite them? If they are not that close then they cannot be expected to know your personal taste, in which case they are hardly to be so badly berated for chosing wrongly.

Now that the day is over, and you have seen the value they place on a gift for you, can I ask, do you think less of them for having bought a useless present? Are the people who gave you more money towards your mortgage considered to be better friends? are the ones who gave less no longer as appreciated?

Tim, sorry but your attitude comes across like a spoiled child who didn't get what he wanted from Santa - right people bought crap presents, they wasted THEIR money, not yours, you had no use for the presents. Boo hoo, get over it. Its not the end of the world - if you were not expecting or relying (or whatever you care to call it) cash then you would not still be so hung up on it!

I find your attitude and your approach in general distasteful and rude.

Personally, cash was our preferred gift, but not particularly because we had financial worries or to pay for the wedding - if we were in that situation we would not have had a wedding and just have had a ceremony in the registry office. Any cash gifts we got we used to buy things we wanted and needed - in that way its still like the person gave us a gift in a way. Family offered money in the form of helping to pay for some things for the day such as my sis paid towards the DJ, my dad paid for the toast. Again, this was not expected, as we could have paid for it ourselves, but was very welcome. And by no means did a rich mammy and daddy fork out, before anyone lays that at me. We had a small wedding within our means.

I do accept that as is the way of human nature, we have all got a present we thought was crap, or a complete waste of money and we wish they had just given cash - we've ALL done that, so I don't wish to present myself as holier than thou. But I'm not still going on about it months later! All that happened is that they wasted their money, it didn't personally offend me so terribly that months later I am on a forum being blatanely rude about it!

Personally, the things I remember most about my wedding, are how wonderfully happy I was, and how lovely it was to have people I loved there. I don't look back on it and label each guest according to the 'usefulness' of their gift.

(one thought for a possible present......a short course of ettiquette lessons - for those people really who need to learn some manners! )

Well said, I couldn't have put it better myself.

This whole thread has given me a headache, all this arguing and crap, it's ridiculous. Wedding does not equal entitlement of presents, be they cash or gifts. So what if you got presents that you have no use for? You shouldn't have been expecting them in the first place. Some people aren't good at picking out presents. Some people like to give cash at weddings, others give presents.

If you have no use for presents you got, then sell them on ebay, I'm sure you'd make some money on the presents.

And to the poster (Tim Robbins was it??) who says about putting cash presents towards the mortgage, then if it's that important for you, then you should've not spent €10k-€15k or whatever the amount was on your wedding and put that towards your mortgage instead. It is very easy to have a wedding on a budget, you do not need to spend a five figure sum to get a "budget" wedding.

When I get married, I will not expect any gifts whatsoever. If somebody gives me a present, well that'll be nice but I wouldn't be disappointed either. I intend to save up and pay for the day without having to rely on handouts from parents / parents-in-law. I would be budgeting assuming that no presents would be received so that I wouldn't be relying on cash gifts to pay for any part of it, like some couples do.

The bottom line is, if you choose to have a big day, do so within your budget and stop moaning about getting crap presents. You should be thankful with what you got, no matter how crap it is, be glad that your friends showed up to your wedding.

dresstoimpress

Can I throw the cat among the pigeons here.....
I work part time in a shop that sells typical wedding gifts, crystal, silver, dinnerware ect. And the ammount of people I have served who bought a CRAPPY box of 40e crystal glasses as a couple going to a whole wedding because of the recession.. blah... blah.... Only later in the conversation to mention their new outfits, the fact that they are staying in the hotel, drinking for the whole weekend and so on.
Drives me mad, people being so selfish!! :mad::mad::mad:
I've been on a budget going to a wedding and spent the day on the dry and drove home, gave the couple my drinking money as their present. A wedding is about celebrating the couple getting married not scabbing a free meal and bottle of wine!!:mad::mad:
Sorry for the rant!!
Just so many people with plenty of money using the downturn as a chance to be tight....

iguana

Ok, I know the original post refers specifically to the recession and as such I expect the economy to be discussed, however demands and accusations about the financial situations of other posters are out of line and I will be handing out bans to any posters who continue down that route. Equally I don't want to see anymore snide comments when people do answer, or passive aggressive assumptions about brief periods of inactivity on the thread.

Also if posters are having serious financial problems which are not related to their weddings or marriages, I suggest taking those issues to the relevant forums such as Biz: Personal, Accommodation and Property, The Property Pin's A&E section or AskAboutMoney. I sympathise with anyone who is having financial problems of any kind, but it's not a stick to beat other posters with.