3.06GHz vs. 3.33GHz on 27" imac

cameraophelp

Hi

Any advice on upgrading (or not) the processor on the 27" imac?
Is there any huge advantage in 3.33GHz over 3.06GHz? (Intel core 2 duo)

OR - is quad core just a good bet? (and within that - to upgrade i5 to i7??)

To be used for video editing, dvd authoring, photoshop. . . looking towards after effects too.

Thanks!

Elessar

Very very little. The faster processor might encode video a second or two faster than the other, and that's about it. Not really worth the money imo. Unless you use this for work, your time is money and you have loads of the latter, don't bother.

alexlyons

cameraophelp wrote: »

Hi

Any advice on upgrading (or not) the processor on the 27" imac?
Is there any huge advantage in 3.33GHz over 3.06GHz? (Intel core 2 duo)

OR - is quad core just a good bet? (and within that - to upgrade i5 to i7??)

To be used for video editing, dvd authoring, photoshop. . . looking towards after effects too.

Thanks!

look at it this way, the 3.33 is 8.8% faster technically, which means you'd see at most a 5% increase in speed. The processor at a guess would be about €300 which is 15% of a €2000 machine (i'm pulling figures out of the air here, but they are based on a mild bit of knowledge ) so your paying 15% (ish) for a 5% real time speed upgrade. Madness.

Now if your planning on upgrading a 27" iMac that doesn't have an i5 or i7 in it, you'll be at the planning stages untill you redesign the imac you'll have to get a new motherboard and somehow fit it in to the iMac. I literally just discussed all this over on the building and upgrading forum here but unlike this thread, I was trying to do it. It started of trying to upgrade a G4 to an intel, then my 24" imac and the ending wasn't nice!

I'm no genius on this subject but I do know my fair bit about mac's in general and how processor upgrades etc improve performance. I've had 9 Mac's since april 2007 (very long story) and I'll tell you know, unless the processor is seriously better (were talking a jump from duo to quad at minimum here) its just not worth it at all.

The other issue is heat.

On the other hand, if I've misunderstood your post, I apologise, but at least you may learn something new Bottom line, the 3.33 is not worth it and an i5 or i7 won't fit unless thats what the machine was designed for :mad:

Type 17

You'd be better off spending the extra money on upgrading the RAM (from Crucial, not Apple).
I'm open to correction, but I'd suggest that a 3.06 GHz iMac with 8GB of RAM will probably give better real-world performance than a 3.33 GHz one with 4 GB.

alexlyons

Type 17 wrote: »

3.06 GHz iMac with 8GB of RAM will probably give better real-world performance than a 3.33 GHz one with 4 GB.

very true depending on what app's your using. Photoshop will take as much ram as you'll give it, where as video editing will benefit more from processor upgrades but more ram will always be good also. However as I said earlier, you'd need a pretty substantial increase in order to notice it and for it to be worth it.

cameraophelp

thanks for the advice! more attention to RAM does seem to be the way to go.

what i was wondering there re the i5/i7 question was an aside to the 3.06/3.33 question

i'm wondering if quad core is a great deal better than the duo (and if i went quad core is there a need to upgrade from the base i5 to the i7 . . . . i just didn't explain it very well!)
. . . I'm guessing the same advice applies - in that RAM is a better option rather than upgrading the processor to i7

But is quad core way way better than the duo core?

alexlyons

cameraophelp wrote: »

Hi
Any advice on upgrading (or not) the processor on the 27" imac?
Is there any huge advantage in 3.33GHz over 3.06GHz? (Intel core 2 duo)

Sort of made it sound like you already have the machine. From what I understand you haven't ordered it yet and are wondering which processor would be better?

cameraophelp wrote: »

i'm wondering if quad core is a great deal better than the duo (and if i went quad core is there a need to upgrade from the base i5 to the i7 . . . . i just didn't explain it very well!)

There is a few types of quad core. One is Core 2 Quad, similar to Core 2 Duo. Its the technical worst of the lot while still better that C2D, but it's not on offer so no need to say any more on it. The second and third are i5 and i7 respectively. The main difference from C2D to these two is the jump from two to four cores, and next is the built in ability to automatically over clock the processor if all the cores are not be utilised. E.g if a processor heavy program can only use 2 cores lets say, then the processor will send more power to these two cores, effectively increasing the clock speed. Don't worry, they're designed to do this. So for your use I'd say quad core is a must, it simply makes sense to have the extra power with the video apps and the difference will be incredible. Adobe are re-writing there suite to take advantage of more cores, and if you use final cut then these will easily take advantage of the four cores. The speed improvements will be unreal!
The other difference is between i5 and i7. The i7 can hyper thread, which basically means it has 4 actual cores (the same as the i5) but it can split each of these into two virtual cores, giving you effectively eight virtual cores, basically doubling your processor again, however you won't notice a doubling in speed from a similar i5, but it will be substantial. Going back to my favourite way of analysing if a processor is worth it, the i7 is an extra 10% on the i5 and you're going to see roughly 30% increase i speed over the i5. However the speed boost will only be noticed in programs than can fully utilise multiple cores and hyper threading, and only the high end ones can at the minute, FCP being one.

So all in, Quad core is a must. If you are using programs that support hyper threading (do a bit of research if you're unsure) and you can afford the 10% extra for a 30% potential speed boost, then I'd say go for it.
On the RAM side, whatever machine you get, you'll have 4 slots so I'd say jam the 4 of them with 2GB sticks (make sure you get the right stuff, don't get it from Apple, its easy to install and check back with anyone here including myself if your unsure on the correct type) to give you a solid total of 8GB which will be an incredible machine and be able to handle almost anything you throw at it! The 8GB also means that when the 4GB sticks come down from €200 a pop you can throw a few of them in to give you another boost, or to stay up to speed with new programs.

cameraophelp wrote: »

But is quad core way way better than the duo core?

See the above, albeit long, few paragraphs!

Hope I've covered everything, any questions just ask

There is a slight possibility of minor discrepancies, but all in its sound solid advice. If your concerned, again, just say.

One jealous guy over her...

cameraophelp

Thanks so much!!
That's much clearer than I've heard it explained and I've been looking around for concrete advice quite a bit.
Brilliant. Ridiculously excited now. I currently chug away on a very outdated machine so looking forward to it!!
Thanks again.

cameraophelp

. . . one last thing.
the crucial vs. apple RAM - is there a performance difference or purely a price difference? and is mixing the 2 that come with apple with 2 crucial no problem? and is mixing size among cores no problem?
. . . and to be sure on which is the right one to get (2GB plenty for now) for the quadcore i7 imac - if you know off the top of your head, maybe you could give me the right info.
thanks again - really really grateful for your thoughts!

Type 17

cameraophelp wrote: »

. . . one last thing.
the crucial vs. apple RAM - is there a performance difference or purely a price difference? and is mixing the 2 that come with apple with 2 crucial no problem? and is mixing size among cores no problem?
. . . and to be sure on which is the right one to get (2GB plenty for now) for the quadcore i7 imac - if you know off the top of your head, maybe you could give me the right info.
thanks again - really really grateful for your thoughts!

Mixing brands/sources doesn't usually cause issues - I've never seen a performance difference, although it's possible that there is, if you were measuring in a lab (then again, maybe not even then).
Mixing RAM sizes is not ideal, but any slight decrease in speed from mixing is usually counteracted by the increase in overall RAM available (there may be exceptions for some (especially older) Mac or PC models, and, for example, Mac Pro's need RAM modules installed in pairs on paired slots, so check your machine's details first)
Mixing speeds of RAM modules is not a good idea, so ensure that they are all <whatever the Apple RAM speeds are>.

The Crucial site shows you exactly what type(s) and/or size(s) of RAM fit your computer, and how/where to install it (see caveats above), either by choosing from a list, or by downloading their (safe) scanning tool. Even if you don't get your RAM there, it is a useful way of finding out what your particular machine needs/can take.

alexlyons

cameraophelp wrote: »

Thanks so much!!
That's much clearer than I've heard it explained and I've been looking around for concrete advice quite a bit.
Brilliant. Ridiculously excited now. I currently chug away on a very outdated machine so looking forward to it!!
Thanks again.

no worries, happy to help. Let us know if and when you get it and what its like!

cameraophelp wrote: »

. . . one last thing.
the crucial vs. apple RAM - is there a performance difference or purely a price difference? and is mixing the 2 that come with apple with 2 crucial no problem? and is mixing size among cores no problem?
. . . and to be sure on which is the right one to get (2GB plenty for now) for the quadcore i7 imac - if you know off the top of your head, maybe you could give me the right info.
thanks again - really really grateful for your thoughts!

there is no difference between crucial and apple ram at all. I think apple may have even used Micron Technology ram before (the company that makes the ram that crucial sell). The ram itself is the same and will function the same. I find either komplett.ie or elara.ie are the cheapest places to get it, as I can pick it up at the dublin locations. I have gotten a bit of ram of ebay but unless you really know what you want and who your buying off then I wouldn't suggest it. Mixing the ram that comes with the iMac and stuff from a 3rd party vendor is perfectly fine, as long as you make sure to get the exact ram for your machine. There is a lot of emphasis put on this by everybody which can make it daunting, buts actually not that hard, and again just ask if in doubt.

Not sure what you mean about mixing the sizes amongst cores? If you mean putting a 4Gb in with 2Gb then you're way better to have matching pairs but its not crucial, as Type 17 said, there may be a slight decrease in speed but all the ram will used and therefore should give better performance.

When you say 2Gb is plenty for now, I hope you mean 2GB sticks. Having only 2Gb of ram in an i7 is like having a 5 liter car with a one liter petrol tank. You'll get there, but not as fast as you could if you had a bigger tank that was full. And you'll keep stopping along the way, which would be the same as your mac slowing down when you try to do heavy video work. I would seriously say that you must get at the very very minimum 4GB, preferably 6GB and ideally 8GB as its really not that much in comparison to the machine. Its stupid buying a machine worth that much and not having the ram! Hope I'm wrong on my understanding!

In terms of the ram you need:

Don't buy it unless its got these specs, it may work if it doesn't but it won't be as fast and you're wasting your money

1066Mhz
DDR3 SO-Dimm
PC3-8500 (that's according to crucial but I never go by this as it can be hard to find, all you need is the above stuff)

The iMac you're looking at DOES NOT take PC3200. I'm aware Type 17 didn't say it did as such, just clarifying.

Also, its rarely written as above. It'll be something like:
2GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM
that's for one stick, but they usually come in pairs which would be:
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM (2x2GB)

The ram must look like



and definitely not:

cameraophelp

brilliant spot on - thanks!
yep - i meant 2GB per core!

@alexlyons, type17 & elessar - thanks for all your input on it, really helps to make decisions

alexlyons

cameraophelp wrote: »

yep - i meant 2GB per core!

Just so you know, ram isn't divided up into the number of cores. I have 4GB in a dual core and programs will use the same amount in a 4 core machine with 4GB. Ram doesn't care whether there is 2 or 4 cores! or 8 for that matter...

But the more ram the better, even with 4 cores

Hope it all helped, and do let us know how it goes when you get it!

DualFrontDiscs

Hi,

My tuppence worth.

I bought an iMac 27" i7 w/ 8GB RAM.

My logic for the chipset was: I won't be able to upgrade the processor in the future. This machine is for the next 3- 5 years. Paying the extra money now might extend the life of the machine towards the end and will give me a small incremental benefit right away.

The logic for the RAM was: I will be able to upgrade the RAM in the future. RAM will get cheaper, year on year. Starting with 8GB now is more than enough for me. I'll be able to pick up cheap RAM in the future when I need it.

BTW, it's a beautiful machine. It's not used for anything too intensive, though I run Windows 7 on Parallels Coherence mode along with a couple of Unix machines using virtualbox. It is lovely. Enjoy.