Dunphy:Rooney the best player since Pele

Mr.Nice Guy

Bodhisopha wrote: »

10) China 2002

Pele Prediction: China will qualify for the next round from their 2002 World Cup group.

Outcome: China finish bottom of Group C with no wins, no draws, no points, no goals, as well as -9 in their goal-difference column.

9) Spain 1998

Pele Prediction: Spain are favourites for the 1998 World Cup in France.

Outcome: Spain humiliatingly dumped out in the first round after losing to Nigeria, and drawing with Paraguay.



8) Colombia To Live American Dream
Pele Prediction: Colombia will win the 1994 World Cup in the USA.

Outcome: Colombia exit the competition in the first round, finishing bottom of their group. Their defender Andres Escobar is also tragically shot dead by an angry fan after Colombia return home.

7) Argentina, France & World Cup 2002

Pele Prediction: Argentina & France will both reach the final.

Outcome: Both countries eliminated in the first round, France without even scoring a goal.

6) Escape To Victory

Pele Prediction: During the famous film starring Sylvester Stallone and Michael Caine, Allies star Pele is brutally fouled in the first half by the Nazi opponents. The injured Brazilian claims there is no way he can continue and is carried off. The Allies are 4-0 down, and a recovery is deemed impossible.

Outcome: Pele returns in the second half and inspires his team to an improbable comeback, even scoring a stunning bicycle kick. Even in fiction, Pele's predictions go wrong.

5) Ronaldo Is Finished

Pele Prediction: Ronaldo will never play football again, and his career is over, following a serious injury for Milan in February 2008.

Outcome: Ronaldo returns in March 2009 for Corinthians, scoring 10 goals in his first 14 games to win the Campeonato Paulista. Rumoured to be on the verge of a national team recall.


4) Nii Lamptey – ‘The New Pele’

Pele Prediction: After starring in the 1991 Under-17 World Cup, which also featured Alessandro Del Piero, Pele proclaims Ghana youngster Lamptey as his successor, ‘The New Pele’.

Outcome: What happens next goes down in football infamy. Lamptey spectacularly fails to fulfil his talent, believing himself that he was cursed by dark forces. The midfielder shifts around clubs such as PSV, Aston Villa, Coventry, Venezia and Ankaragucu, without success, and endures tragedy in his personal life, as two of his children die.

3) Nicky Barmby - Up There With Zidane, Maldini & Ronaldo

Pele Prediction: Nicky Barmby will become a world class star.

Outcome: Nicky Barmby becomes nothing more than an average player, winning 23 England caps, and never even appearing in a World Cup.


2) Africa Will Rule

Pele Prediction: An African nation will win the World Cup before the year 2000.

Outcome: It is now 2009, and an African country has still yet to get past the quarter-final.

1) Brazil & World Cup 2002

Pele Prediction: Brazil won’t even get past the group stages.

Outcome: Brazil win the World Cup.

Maybe in all these instances Pele was being sarcastic.

m@cc@

A lot of what Pele says just doesn't stand up, except when it comes to Viagra.

MisterAnarchy

I remember Pele having a show on Eurosport for the World Cup in the US .
It was only a few minutes long but it was hilarious.
His analysis of Ireland was essentially that "Ireland they boot the ball" and that Steve Staunton was the main weapon hoofing long balls up the pitch.
It was so funny.

Johner

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think that's unfair as Bergkamp was naturally gifted whereas I'm not sure the same can be said of the above great players. Not to the same extent anyway. His control of a ball was unbelievable. He was like a magician. I'm not sure if I've seen anyone in my lifetime come close to that so I'd include him on that basis.

Pele incidentally named Bergkamp and Keane on his list of the greatest ever players so the man himself rates them highly.

El Hadji Diouf is in that list. :pac:

raven136

Sorry to try and simplify the argument but when talking about centre forwards like rooney surely who cares if he works hard or tracks back,his jobs is to score bucket loads of goals.
Who would you put your money on in a major final to score the winner,Ronaldo,Torres,Villa or Rooney.Based on anything we have seen throughout their careers the others are better scorers and more clinical than Rooney.
This is taking nothing away from him,he has been terrific this season but he has only scores 4 league goals more than Drogba who played in the africa cup of nations.

aidan24326

m@cc@ wrote: »

My issue with him (Ronaldinho) is that for 2 or 3 years, yes he was untouchable and the stuff he did with a ball, amazing. But since then, he has shown he has no love for the game and has been reduced to a performing seal.

Ah come on now, for a 'performing seal' he was pretty decent against United the other night. He may not be at the level of 3 or 4 years ago but he still has that bit of magic in his boots, he can do things with the ball that probably only Messi would even attempt.

m@cc@ wrote: »

Pele's opinions vary according to what country he is speaking in at the time.

For such a great player his opinions on the game are so often wide of the mark, but in fairness, the fact he has all these ambassadorial roles (FIFA, UN, UNESCO) means he's probaly a bit restricted in giving his real honest opinion at times.

Still, including El Hadj Diouf in his list of the world's great players puts Dunphy in the shade for sheer wrongness.

Dunphy has always had a hard-on for Rooney though, even when Rooney was off-form Dunphy was still singing his praises. He is playing great stuff this season for sure but to suggest he's the best player since Pele is a wild exaggeration even by Eamo's standards. He's clearly forgotten about Cruyff, Platini, Maradona, Van Basten, Baggio, Romario, Stoichkov, Brazilian Ronaldo, Zidane etc

Xavi6

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Maybe in all these instances Pele was being sarcastic.

I'm gonna make quoting long posts a bannable offence. Think of us phone posters!

Reganio 2

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm gonna make quoting long posts a bannable offence. Think of us phone posters!

Especially to say something as stupid as that.

Guy:Incognito

I hav'nt read through the thread so dont know whats been said.

Rooney is a fantastic player and at the moment is the best around at what he's doing. IMO he's the most important player in Utd's team, I've thought and said that for a couple of years now.

I just dont agree with blanket statements of "best player in the world". I'm being pedantic, but he's not a better goalkeeper than VDS or a better defender than Vidic.

m@cc@

Stekelly wrote: »

I just dont agree with blanket statements of "best player in the world". I'm being pedantic, but he's not a better goalkeeper than VDS or a better defender than Vidic.

Yes you are. By that rational, you could never give anyone an award for anything if someone else did one aspect the practice better.

TheDoc

Hes flavour of the month ( season). Theres always a new " best player in the world " " best player ever".

Rooney is having a good season. A player is judged of their greatness after they have retired and hung up their boots. Not whilst they are still playing.

This is what, his first season knockin in over 20 plus, for a striker, thats a poor return, but of course he was played out of position, so we will forgive him. Lets see if he can keep scoring 20+ goals over the next few years.

He is without doubt on fire at the moment, and probably the most efficent performing striker at present.

But if you were to pick 5 players to play up front, currently still in the game, and they were to perform at their best. Would you quickly pick Rooney over

Thierry Henry.
Ibrahimovic
Samuel Eto
Fernando torres
David Villa

?

I dont think it would be that straight forward.

A good player, who constantly lets himself down with his scumbag behaviour. But he wont be judged properly until he nets a few more 20+ goal season. With him, he could end up nutting someone on the field and get a lengthy ban : /

Ush1

So at the end of the day it's all subjective and everyone moves the goal posts to suit their point of view. Best player in the world is who YOU think it is, nothing can be "proven".

Le King

TheDoc wrote: »

Hes flavour of the month ( season). Theres always a new " best player in the world " " best player ever".

Rooney is having a good season. A player is judged of their greatness after they have retired and hung up their boots. Not whilst they are still playing.

This is what, his first season knockin in over 20 plus, for a striker, thats a poor return, but of course he was played out of position, so we will forgive him. Lets see if he can keep scoring 20+ goals over the next few years.

He is without doubt on fire at the moment, and probably the most efficent performing striker at present.

But if you were to pick 5 players to play up front, currently still in the game, and they were to perform at their best. Would you quickly pick Rooney over

Thierry Henry.
Ibrahimovic
Samuel Eto
Fernando torres
David Villa

?

I dont think it would be that straight forward.

A good player, who constantly lets himself down with his scumbag behaviour. But he wont be judged properly until he nets a few more 20+ goal season. With him, he could end up nutting someone on the field and get a lengthy ban : /

Firstly, this is Rooney's 3rd season scoring 20 goals.


Secondly, Eto'o is not even the best striker at Inter. Never mind best in the world. You flaw your argument by including Henry and there is a severe lack of Diego Miltio, Dzeko, Di Natale (on current form) etc.

Rooney would be top of your top 5, for me, at the moment.

My Top 5 strikers in the world at the moment would be:

Rooney, Ibra, Villa, Milito and Torres/Drogba.

As for the scumbag comments, well, if you actually watched Rooney over the last few years, which you clearly haven't, you would of noticed he's matured a lot.

Guy:Incognito

m@cc@ wrote: »

Yes you are. By that rational, you could never give anyone an award for anything if someone else did one aspect the practice better.

What it should be is thigns like "Best goalkeeper, Best Defender, Best Midfielder"

There cant be one blanket best player in the world.

TheDoc wrote: »

Rooney is having a good season. A player is judged of their greatness after they have retired and hung up their boots. Not whilst they are still playing.

This is what, his first season knockin in over 20 plus, for a striker, thats a poor return, but of course he was played out of position, so we will forgive him. Lets see if he can keep scoring 20+ goals over the next few years.

: /

Rooney isnt all about goals. His overall contribution to Utd is huge. It's a mark of his ability though that this season Utd need to replace C.Ronaldo's goals from the last couple of years so Rooney just steps up and does it.

He has been just as important over the last few years, just in different ways.

SDTimeout

Osu wrote: »

As for the scumbag comments, well, if you actually watched Rooney over the last few years, which you clearly haven't, you would of noticed he's matured a lot.

didn't rooney kick someone in the head in the ac milan game or did i misinterpet that

Dublin_Gunner

Stekelly wrote: »

Rooney isnt all about goals. His overall contribution to Utd is huge. It's a mark of his ability though that this season Utd need to replace C.Ronaldo's goals from the last couple of years so Rooney just steps up and does it.

He has been just as important over the last few years, just in different ways.

I agree with you there. Rooney's work rate at United has been exceptional. He never stops, for 90 minutes he's still going. Great atribute to have. Couple that work rate with pace, skill, deadly finishing, excellent passing ability and strength and you have a cocktail for a footballer who really excels above most others.

He's defo in the top 5/10 attacking players currently. (I say 5/10 as its sort of difficult to really say who's better than who IMO)

Liam O

SDTimeout wrote: »

didn't rooney kick someone in the head in the ac milan game or did i misinterpet that

yeah, lined him up, waited for the opportunity and booted the guy right in the face. You didn't misinterpret it at all...

magma69

It's just Dunphy being Dunphy. Make a bold statement to get people talking and hey presto, it worked!

You cannot really compare players until their careers have ended. There is not doubting Rooney is the full package though. People only seem to judge him on goals which is unfair. He's footballing intelligence is top notch (probably to cancel out his lack of intelligence in every other department :P)
He has vision, awareness, strength, great first touch, can tackle, fantastic work rate, good in the air. You can play him anywhere on the pitch and he will do the business. He is a huge asset to United.

Sir Gallagher

Anyway he's clearly not the best player since Pele and nowhere near and that as a great man once said is a fact.

meditraitor

He's not even the greatest Liverpool player since Pele, let alone the world

Spiritoftheseventies

meditraitor wrote: »

He's not even the greatest Liverpool player since Pele, let alone the world

Liam O

meditraitor wrote: »

He's not even the greatest Liverpool player since Pele, let alone the world

i agree

Guy:Incognito

meditraitor wrote: »

He's not even the greatest Liverpool player since Pele, let alone the world

I agree, I always felt Pele's career took a nosedive during his time at Liverpool. English game did'nt suit him.Rooney has settled in even less, and Rafa should move him on.

pwd

havent seen him play since he left man u, but based on stats, Ronaldo seems to be doing pretty well without Rooney to "do all the spade work for him" - 17 goals in 18 appearances for Real.

meditraitor

Stekelly wrote: »

I agree, I always felt Pele's career took a nosedive during his time at Liverpool. England game did'nt suit him.Rooney has settled in even less, and Rafa should move him on.

Did I say FC and I was pointing to the fact that he is not even the best player to come out of his small town since pele played soccer let alone be the best player in the world since pele

You knew that but being a

Jazzy

him, messi, ronaldo, xavi & ibrahimovic are the 5 best players in the world atm (imo). villa, torres, eto'o and..... john terry wouldnt be far behind either. its very hard to differenciate who is better when the skill level is that high so i suppose my 'top 5' would just be my favorite out of that bunch

keane2097

Drogba being left out of everybody's top 5s has me on major tilt...

Sir Gallagher

keane2097 wrote: »

Drogba being left out of everybody's top 5s has me on major tilt...

Goes to show how ridiculous these arguements are.

Irishcrx

You ask any Utd fan when Ronaldo was at utd if they wanted Ronaldo or Rooney, it'd be Rooney ten times over. He has far more heart to give to the team and I do feel he took a second role to Ronaldo for a few seasons, this season he has really stepped up to the plate as a centre forward. Him and Ronaldo play two differant types of game, one looks to create space , use his power and bring team members into play, Ronaldo looks for Ronaldo always has always will.

Anyone who has watched him at madrid this season will know that even though he has scored a few, he has been inconsistent and hasn't yet showed the great form he has at Utd. I don't think that Madrid team is gelling very well either, to many players who want to do the fantastic IMO.

Sir Gallagher

Irishcrx wrote: »

You ask any Utd fan when Ronaldo was at utd if they wanted Ronaldo or Rooney, it'd be Rooney ten times over. He has far more heart to give to the team and I do feel he took a second role to Ronaldo for a few seasons, this season he has really stepped up to the plate as a centre forward. Him and Ronaldo play two differant types of game, one looks to create space , use his power and bring team members into play, Ronaldo looks for Ronaldo always has always will.

Anyone who has watched him at madrid this season will know that even though he has scored a few, he has been inconsistent and hasn't yet showed the great form he has at Utd. I don't think that Madrid team is gelling very well either, to many players who want to do the fantastic IMO.

The United Rooney Madrid Ronaldo saga is like a metaphor for one of the greatest love stories ever told!

rossie1977

rooney better than maradona

deisedevil

When Rooney retires we'll know how great he was. Until then I'll enjoy every minute of it and mourn when he's gone.

nullzero

Rooney's still quite young so we've still to see what he's going to do in his career. At his age he's still not at what would be considered his "peak", so it's going to be interesting to watch him over the years he's playing. I'd put money on him still being at the top level challenging for and winning trophies long after Ronaldo goes and has a nervous breakdown/drugs binge/sex change etc...:pac:

SlickRic

nullzero wrote: »

I'd put money on him still being at the top level challenging for and winning trophies long after Ronaldo goes and has a nervous breakdown/drugs binge/sex change etc...:pac:

i know your post is slightly tongue-in-cheek, but for all Ronaldo's personality faults, he's as driven as anyone.

we'll be enjoying them both for many many years to come.

nullzero

SlickRic wrote: »

i know your post is slightly tongue-in-cheek, but for all Ronaldo's personality faults, he's as driven as anyone.

we'll be enjoying them both for many many years to come.

What ever gave you that idea?
And slightly?

deisedevil

SlickRic wrote: »

i know your post is slightly tongue-in-cheek, but for all Ronaldo's personality faults, he's as driven as anyone.

we'll be enjoying them both for many many years to come.

Your spot on. Can't fault either of them for their ambition and drive. You won't see Ronaldo being anything other than a clean living model professional. Ronaldo is so single minded in wanting to be one of the greatest players ever, that's all he cares about and will never be devoted to one club, he's devoted to himself but while you have him it's not a bad thing because he will never go out on the pitch not caring about his performance, he'll always look to have an amazing game.

Rooney is devoted to Man Utd and while he wants to do well in his own right he wants the club to do well also.

Spiritoftheseventies

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Has anybody mentioned Dalglish yet?

glad you brought him up. A legend if ever there was one. My all time hero. A phenomenal player.

Guy:Incognito

pwd wrote: »

havent seen him play since he left man u, but based on stats, Ronaldo seems to be doing pretty well without Rooney to "do all the spade work for him" - 17 goals in 18 appearances for Real.

Real Madrid arent just Casillas then a big gap to Ronaldo playign on his own.

Guy:Incognito

keane2097 wrote: »

Drogba being left out of everybody's top 5s has me on major tilt...

He's 32 next month, who knew who he was before the last 5 years?

By the time Rooney is 32 IMO he'll have nearly 15 years of constant world class football behind him.

Although I dont buy the Ibrahimovic love myself and never really liked Eto'o.

davyjose

Stekelly wrote: »

Although I dont buy teh Ibrahimovic love myself

Boggles the mind, tbh.

Any list that puts Ibra ahead of Drogba is laughable.

JPA

Stekelly wrote: »

He's 3 next month, who knew who he was before the last 5 years?

By teh time Rooney is 32 IMO he'll have nearly 15 years of constant world class football behind him.

Although I dont buy teh Ibrahimovic love myself and never really liked Eto'o.

Imagine drogba at 10? :eek:

MisterAnarchy

Irishcrx wrote: »

You ask any Utd fan when Ronaldo was at utd if they wanted Ronaldo or Rooney, it'd be Rooney ten times over.

Steady on now,I dont know about that.
10 times over is a bit of an exaggeration.
Most Utd fans I know including myself would be evenly split over who was a more valuable player.
Ronaldo didnt win World Player of the year for nothing.
He was a hugely influential player for Utd and contributed hugely to Utd's success over the last 3 years .
Just because he has left the club doesnt mean Utd fans should begrudge him his achievement.

Bodhisopha

Most United fans would have said they'd rather Rooney because it was pretty obvious Ronaldo wanted to play for Real. Which is fair enough but let's not kid ourselves into thinking it was down to ability or the impact either player could make.

kryogen

Rooney was always more important to the team but Ronny was always the better individual, everyone actually knows this

both exceptionally gifted players especially when you considered their ages

whats this thread about again? top 5 strikers in the world now or something?

keane2097

Stekelly wrote: »

He's 32 next month, who knew who he was before the last 5 years?

Mourinho?

Is this a trick question or something.

It's been a toss-up between Drogba and Rooney for best striker in the league this year. People putting Rooney close to the top of the list and not mentioning Drogba are just wrong.

davyjose

keane2097 wrote: »

It's been a toss-up between Drogba and Rooney for best striker in the league this year. People putting Rooney close to the top of the list and not mentioning Drogba are just wrong.

Rooney: 21 goals
Drogba: 17 goals

Drogba doesn't take the penos, but he doesn't create the way Rooney does, he doesn't track-back, all in all he doesn't do as much as Rooney does. I think rooney has this season (so far) by a bit more than a toss-up.

keane2097

davyjose wrote: »

Rooney: 21 goals
Drogba: 17 goals

Drogba doesn't take the penos, but he doesn't create the way Rooney does, he doesn't track-back, all in all he doesn't do as much as Rooney does. I think rooney has this season (so far) by a bit more than a toss-up.

Drogba was away for the bones of a month at the ACON

Mitch Connor

keane2097 wrote: »

Drogba was away for the bones of a month at the ACON

Rooney missed a few games through injury didn't he - probably as many as Drogba missed for the ACoN.

SlickRic

Rooney > Drogba so far this season.

they're both as vital as each other to their teams.

Drogba's still slightly more clinical IMO, stronger, and a better target man - a proper number 9.

Rooney's better in every other area of play.

dyl10

kryogen wrote: »

Rooney was always more important to the team but Ronny was always the better individual, everyone actually knows this

Well then I guess you have to ask yourself what is the determinant of the "best" player.
For me, it's the player who has the biggest positive impact on a team. That is, the player whos presence in the team plays the biggest role in that team's success.
Alternatively, you could rate footballing skill and talent, which for me, is another things all together.

On the Rooney V Drogba debate, I think Rooney is better but Drogba really is a great player.