Would Eamonn Gilmore Sell Aer Lingus to Ryan Air to get into Government

CDfm

Thats the question. If the Labour Party really wanted to endear itself to foreign and domestic industry what would be better than a grand gesture.Eamonn Gilmore seems very keen on Ryanair so what is the motive.

New Labours Gordon Brown and Tony Blair sold Rover to a British Consortium to "keep the carmaker British". for British business and kept Honda from buying it and securing its future.

JFK reputedbly did a deal with Mafia controlled unions.

Roman Emperors held Gladiatorial Games.

So if Eamonn Gilmore was put to the test would he sell Aer Lingus to Michael O'Leary appear business friendly. What else would he need to do -cuts , curb unions.

Welease

CDfm wrote: »

New Labours Gordon Brown and Tony Blair sold Rover to a British Consortium to "keep the carmaker British". for British business and kept Honda from buying it and securing its future.

Didn't Rover get sold to BMW (German), then to Ford (US) then to Tata (Indian)?

Edit - and i don't think Rover have any cars in production anymore..

CDfm

Welease wrote: »

Didn't Rover get sold to BMW (German), then to Ford (US) then to Tata (Indian)?

Edit - and i don't think Rover have any cars in production anymore..

The manufacturing facilities passed to a consortium called Phoenix who had a franchise to use the rover marque as MG Rover. But it was a high profile action to secure jobs and cosy up to business.

The question is will Eamonn Gilmore do the same and is Aer Lingus the high profile deal to do it with.

Eamonn Gilmore really has gone in on the attack on Michael O'Leary's side so it is not inconcieveable. I reckon its highly probable.

Welease

CDfm wrote: »

The manufacturing facilities passed to a consortium called Phoenix who had a franchise to use the rover marque as MG Rover. But it was a high profile action to secure jobs and cosy up to business.

The question is will Eamonn Gilmore do the same and is Aer Lingus the high profile deal to do it with.

Eamonn Gilmore really has gone in on the attack on Michael O'Leary's side so it is not inconcieveable. I reckon its highly probable.

??? but how can he sell Aer Lingus to get INTO government... he has no control over it..

P. Breathnach

CDfm wrote: »

... Eamonn Gilmore really has gone in on the attack on Michael O'Leary's side so it is not inconcieveable. I reckon its highly probable.

I haven't paid close attention to what Gilmore has been saying, but I would guess that he is going against the government rather than supporting Ryanair.

CDfm

Welease wrote: »

??? but how can he sell Aer Lingus to get INTO government... he has no control over it..

Ireland is fairly center dressed to the left politically.

By making a grand gesture and supporting Irelands most high profile business man he proves his credibility. He does not have to do anything just lend his support to prove his commitment to business.

New Labour did this by embrassing free market economics called the "Third Way" to woo middle class voters. Getting O Leary on side would be reminiscent of New Labour and their business alliances.

Incidentally, the price Michael O'Leary wants to pay for the building is 1993 prices and those hangars were built with the best of everything.

That said Aer Lingus is a plc and not under state control - how can the Government direct that -that why they about directors.

A cool stunt IMHO.

CDfm

Welease wrote: »

??? but how can he sell Aer Lingus to get INTO government... he has no control over it..

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I haven't paid close attention to what Gilmore has been saying, but I would guess that he is going against the government rather than supporting Ryanair.

Who owns Aer Lingus? Of course, he can influence it for votes.

The concept is getting votes to get in government and at what price.

So by supporting that he would be going for middle class votes. A successful politician is one who is elected and what he is doing is becoming electable.

Currently he is proposing taking one companies property not controled by the government and giving it to another who is in direct competition with the first at less than market value.

He is supporting this. How close to O'Leary must he get.

mike65

Is there the remotest suggestion Gilmore is thinking of making this Labour party policy?

Dob74

CDfm wrote: »

Thats the question. If the Labour Party really wanted to endear itself to foreign and domestic industry what would be better than a grand gesture.Eamonn Gilmore seems very keen on Ryanair so what is the motive.

New Labours Gordon Brown and Tony Blair sold Rover to a British Consortium to "keep the carmaker British". for British business and kept Honda from buying it and securing its future.

JFK reputedbly did a deal with Mafia controlled unions.

Roman Emperors held Gladiatorial Games.

So if Eamonn Gilmore was put to the test would he sell Aer Lingus to Michael O'Leary appear business friendly. What else would he need to do -cuts , curb unions.

Why would Labour being in favour of selling the government share of AL to Ryanair impress anyone?
The only thing it would do is set up a monoply, the same as Aer lingus had in the bad old days.
When Michael O'leary leaves Ryan Air what gaurautee is there that they will pursue the same Low fare business model they operate now.

The Unions dont have much power in this country, what have they done about the pay cuts?

CDfm

mike65 wrote: »

Is there the remotest suggestion Gilmore is thinking of making this Labour party policy?

You tell me but he does seem to be cosying up to the idea of alligning himself with business.

Dob74 wrote: »

Why would Labour being in favour of selling the government share of AL to Ryanair impress anyone?

To get elected

The Unions dont have much power in this country, what have they done about the pay cuts?

What alternative did the have but accept them. They were hardly harsh cuts given the payscale system.

They the Labour Party do have close links to the unions - but what price power?

Are we seeing a shift to the Third Way - after the Ryan Air Support in the Dail 2010 might see a party conference in Knock.

Head The Wall

Dob74 wrote: »

The Unions dont have much power in this country, what have they done about the pay cuts?

Laughable suggestion really, Why don't we have an efficient well run public sector. It's nothing to do with staff hiding behind unions and looking for money when the location of their water cooler gets moved

jimmycrackcorm

Dob74 wrote: »

Why would Labour being in favour of selling the government share of AL to Ryanair impress anyone?
The only thing it would do is set up a monoply, the same as Aer lingus had in the bad old days.
When Michael O'leary leaves Ryan Air what gaurautee is there that they will pursue the same Low fare business model they operate now.

+1 - surely Gilmore realises that like their credit card charge policy, the first thing Ryanair would do is hike up flight fares.

CDfm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

+1 - surely Gilmore realises that like their credit card charge policy, the first thing Ryanair would do is hike up flight fares.

Thats avoiding the question which is what would he do to get in to power. It looks like Michael O'Leary and RyanAir may be a stepping stone.

Look at the open support he is giving them.

CityCentreMan

Much as I agree with the suggestions made by CDfm, unfortunately Eamonn Gilmore is unlikely to participate in or assist with the sale of Aer Lingus to Ryanair.

His recent percieved support for Ryanair is a rare moment of sanity whereby he finally grasped the difficulties faced in this country by entrepreneurs trying to develop successful businesses and to create jobs in the face of stiff opposition from bureaucrats in the state, semi state & formerly state sectors.

As a small regional airline with an inflexible & costly workforce mostly drawn from the semi-state sector, the likelihood is that Aer Lingus Workers, Directors & the Government will work in concert, lemming like, to ensure the premature demise of Aer Lingus and the loss of jobs that this will involve.

Whilst I hope that Eamonn Gilmore would try to save the jobs of the workers in Aer Lingus by encouraging the only sensible option (Sale to Ryanair) I think it is extremely unlikely that he will do so.

Eventually, when the inevitable happens, Ryanair is likely to cherry pick the assets of Aer Lingus at knockdown prices from a liquidator / reciever. The staff will be able to re-apply for their old jobs and Ryanair will grow from strength to strength.

I hope that I am wrong!

ardmacha

Why don't we have an efficient well run public sector. It's nothing to do with staff hiding behind unions

Good point, Head the Wall. It is to do with the idiots that that are elected by the Irish people to run the public sector.

jasonwaters

Gilmore would sell his soul to get into office, he's nothing more than a populist windbag

CDfm

OK -since he became leader what has he done in that respect any u-turns.

What will he compromise on?

jmayo

CDfm wrote: »

Thats the question. If the Labour Party really wanted to endear itself to foreign and domestic industry what would be better than a grand gesture.Eamonn Gilmore seems very keen on Ryanair so what is the motive.

New Labours Gordon Brown and Tony Blair sold Rover to a British Consortium to "keep the carmaker British". for British business and kept Honda from buying it and securing its future.

JFK reputedbly did a deal with Mafia controlled unions.

Roman Emperors held Gladiatorial Games.

So if Eamonn Gilmore was put to the test would he sell Aer Lingus to Michael O'Leary appear business friendly. What else would he need to do -cuts , curb unions.

If you are going to use examples please check the facts and timelines first. :rolleyes:
Thatcher, remember her, wanted Honda to take over Rover and they aonly wanted a partial stake in it.
Honda did not want total ownership and wanted it to keep British stake.
Thatcher organisaed sale of Rover to British Aerospace.

British Aerospace flogged it to BMW.
BMW sold the Rover and related MG car activities of the Rover Group to the Phoenix Consortium, who established the MG Rover Group at Longbridge. BMW retained ownership of the Rover marque, allowing MG Rover to use it under licence.
In April 2005, Rover branded cars ceased to be produced when the MG Rover Group became insolvent.
Land Rover had become a separate entity.
BMW sold the Rover marque to Ford in 2006.

Ford reached agreement with Tata Motors of India to include the Rover marque as part of the sale of their Jaguar Land Rover operations in 2008.

Where Blair ocmes in is that in 2005 it was revealed that he had intervened to support the proposed alliance between MG Rover and the Chinese consortium SAIC.
So if anything he was trying to flog off Rover Group to whatever sucker was willing to take it.

Welease wrote: »

Didn't Rover get sold to BMW (German), then to Ford (US) then to Tata (Indian)?

Edit - and i don't think Rover have any cars in production anymore..

No they don't, but the rights to manufacture some of their models were purchased by SIAC of China.
Somehow I don't think these models include such notables as the Metro, the Marina, the Allegro. :rolleyes:

CDfm

jmayo wrote: »

If you are going to use examples please check the facts and timelines first. :rolleyes:
Thatcher, remember her, wanted Honda to take over Rover and they aonly wanted a partial stake in it.
Honda did not want total ownership and wanted it to keep British stake.
Thatcher organisaed sale of Rover to British Aerospace.

I dont mean this to be about Thatcher or Blair or whoever. Its about Eamonn Gilmore and what he would do.

Now the Rover deal is a lot more complex but I used it to make a point on political and industrial issues.

The question still is what would Eamonn Gilmore do???

meditraitor

jasonwaters wrote: »

Gilmore would sell his soul to get into office, he's nothing more than a populist windbag

Gilmore could be in office right now if as you put it "Gilmore would sell his soul " It would have been very easy for labour to enter into a FF coalition Government last time out. FF have coveted Labour support for 20 years now and they still havent taken a drink from that poisin chalice.

In short, what your saying is nonsense and the 30 seconds it took to type those 70 odd key strokes was as big a waste of time as Ive seen

On the topic of selling the government shares in Aer Lingus to RA, I dont think he would and I really dont see how that would effect his popularity. Its a loaded question and has no relevence in current political matters. Bigger fish and all that

CDfm

meditraitor wrote: »

Gilmore could be in office right now if as you put it "Gilmore would sell his soul " It would have been very easy for labour to enter into a FF coalition Government last time out. FF have coveted Labour support for 20 years now and they still havent taken a drink from that poisin chalice.

In short, what your saying is nonsense and the 30 seconds it took to type those 70 odd key strokes was as big a waste of time as Ive seen

Eamonn Gilmore was not the leader of the Labour Party for the past twenty years or at the last election.

So what has his stance been to back up that assertion??

jmayo

CDfm wrote: »

I dont mean this to be about Thatcher or Blair or whoever. Its about Eamonn Gilmore and what he would do.

Now the Rover deal is a lot more complex but I used it to make a point on political and industrial issues.

The question still is what would Eamonn Gilmore do???

Fair enough I just get a bit picky sometimes about inacurracies. :cool:
Back to what you are asking about Gilmore sell the state's stake in Aer Lingus?
I am not sure
There would be huge pressure from unions not to relinguish control of Aer Lingus to Ryan Air and especially O'Leary.
Also it would have to be run by EU commissioner.

meditraitor

CDfm wrote: »

Eamonn Gilmore was not the leader of the Labour Party for the past twenty years or at the last election.

So what has his stance been to back up that assertion??

I should have been more consise in my reply, Gimore is the labour leader and no Labour leader needs power enough to engage with FF or be part of a coalition. What he posted was pure nonsense and to even consider it would show a distinct lack of common sense.

Gilmore comes from the Worker party-DL into labour, his ideals are not the same as FF/FG political business model. He has ideals and is not stupid enough to sacrifice them for a brief stint in government.

He is less of a politician in the current model, thats why he has the best leader rating of the lot.... People beleive him

CDfm

jmayo wrote: »

Fair enough I just get a bit picky sometimes about inacurracies. :cool:

thats ok - I find a lot of it very familiar territory to Blair going into power and his links with British Media Barons and New Labour Loveys

Back to what you are asking about Gilmore sell the state's stake in Aer Lingus?
I am not sure
There would be huge pressure from unions not to relinguish control of Aer Lingus to Ryan Air and especially O'Leary.
Also it would have to be run by EU commissioner.

He has backed the government on the cuts effectively in the public service -different dog same hair (as has Enda).

EU Commission was fine when we as a country had lots of money but will Aer Lingus be there in 2 years time.

Now he has given Coughlan a bad time on things outside her control. She would not be my choice of Minister for Enterprise.

So what would he do and is he spinning?

SkepticOne

I don't think it would buy him too many votes. He might even feel it is the right thing to do, but when people then complain about RyanAir as they inevitably will and currently do, Gilmore will be seen as being responsible for eliminating the alternative.

I don't want to come across as cynical here but I do think these would be the overriding considerations particularly in Ireland.

CDfm

SkepticOne wrote: »

I don't think it would buy him too many votes.

But would it buy enough votes

He might even feel it is the right thing to do, but when people then complain about RyanAir as they inevitably will and currently do,
.

But if you are in power -you are in power.

SkepticOne

CDfm wrote: »

But if you are in power -you are in power.

I take your point however he would still need to consider the effect once he's in power.

CDfm

SkepticOne wrote: »

I take your point however he would still need to consider the effect once he's in power.

A politician is sucessful if he achieves power- Labour have been out of power for 20 years.

There are not a lot of people here able to quantify Mr Gilmores ambition.

What price has his ambition.

CDfm

meditraitor wrote: »

I should have been more consise in my reply, Gimore is the labour leader and no Labour leader needs power enough to engage with FF or be part of a coalition. What he posted was pure nonsense and to even consider it would show a distinct lack of common sense.

Gilmore comes from the Worker party-DL into labour, his ideals are not the same as FF/FG political business model. He has ideals and is not stupid enough to sacrifice them for a brief stint in government.

He is less of a politician in the current model, thats why he has the best leader rating of the lot.... People beleive him

Lets forget his origan for a minite - now this is not a pick on Eamonn Gilmore but what particular skills or attributes would he bring to government.

For that matter the FF/PD/Greens follow similar economic policies.

So what are his skills and what policies has he that are different and can they be impliment.

What differentiates him from Enda or Brian?

meditraitor

CDfm wrote: »

What differentiates him from Enda or Brian?

Honesty and integrity;

CDfm

meditraitor wrote: »

Honesty and integrity;

Policy wise

I am sure if a politician came to us as a country and said lads right here is the deal I want 1 billion euro , a fresh faced hot woman (or man) for my bed and Aras an Uachterain to live in and no questions about my financial dealings and payable after 12 months and I will have the countries finances sorted and everyone working like they were during the tiger era, people would agree.

So the question I am asking is what skillset does he have - as he can be very honest and leave us in a worse mess than we are in now. Honesty does not mean he is capable of government.

Some people say his close affiliation with the unions would be a huge drawbackto him,