Dan Boyle has no confidence in Willie O'Dea

LostinBlanch

Highly Salami wrote: »

What farce?, Aer Lingus signed a 20 year lease with DAA to use Hangar 6. Micko wants the government to force DAA to break the lease. I'm fairly sure the govt. don't have the authority to do that. If he wants to use a hangar in Dublin airport, why not use hangars 1 to 5? or alternatively the government (via IDA) could lease from the DAA and then sublet to Ryanair (if Micko doesnt want to deal with the DAA directly). Micko is being totally unreasonable.



utter nonsense

This has been covered on a different thread. MOL wants to use Hangar 6 as it is for heavy aircrafy maintenance only. This is the purpose it was built for. Aer Lingus have moved 95 staff there over the new year to operate line maintenance i.e. light maintenance for plane turnaround e.g. changing the oil checking tyre pressure etc etc. This could easily be done in Hangars 4 or 5.

Also on all Ryanair leases with DAA, there is a clause which states that DAA have the right to move leasees to different premises if they need the original premises for their own purposes. O'Leary is calling for publication of the lease for Hangar 6 to show that Aer Lingus could easily move to Hangar 4 or 5 where they were originally.

In the meantime 300 highly specialised and not easily replaced jobs are going a begging while all this posturing is going on.

Apologies for taking this off topic, this wold be better discussed on the Coughlan O'Leary topic.

As for Willie, he's contrite all right, but only for being caught.

LostinBlanch

Also how could any guard ever trust O'Dea if he's acting the way he is?

Disgraceful

walshb

"And on demands for his resignation, Mr O'Dea said his position was always in the hands of the Taoiseach."

It is Cowen who really has to take responsibility here. He is the man allowing O'Dea to remain in his team. As bad as O'Dea is, Cowen is worse; he's the man justifying having this man in his cabinet.

Trotter

I think Willie will go and the government will stand. The Greens will continue to wander along behind their master, and the show will go on.

There is nothing that FF can do that will trigger a Green withdrawal and rid us of this government.

Macha

Trotter wrote: »

There is nothing that FF can do that will trigger a Green withdrawal and rid us of this government.

TBH, I think you might get your wish with this issue.

Highly Salami

LostinBlanch wrote: »

Aer Lingus have moved 95 staff there over the new year.

Definitely not true, the 95 staff came in to Aer Lingus as new employees from SR Technics, the rest of your post is just opinion.

Trotter

taconnol wrote: »

TBH, I think you might get your wish with this issue.

Well in fairness to you, we still need people like yourself who are passionate about green issues. This is what frustrates me so much. Its a disgrace that Green TDs will set the Green movement in general back so many years.

I'd love to see the Greens go, and a FG/Lab/Green government in next time. The only hope of that is for the Greens to go now, and to run new candidates that disown your existing leaders.

mike65

Brian Cowen has just issued a statement giving his full support to the liar.

Mr. Incognito

Speaking on RTÉ radio this morning, Mr Boyle's party colleague Paul Gogarty stressed the senator's comments regarding Mr O'Dea were personal and not the view of the Green Party.

Mr Gogarty said he believed it was ethically wrong for Mr O'Dea to have made a false statement before an interviewer and to have defamed somebody but that this in itself wasn't a reason to step down.

"While he hasn't covered himself in glory a resigning issue hasn't been established as of yet," said Mr Gogarty.

Wow, just wow.

You know I was a registered Green and despite all that has happened was going to give them my support at the next election but if they stand by and let Willie continue in office after he commited libel, slander and perjury without pulling the plug I may never vote Green again.

I've never voted for FF nor would I, FG are awful under Enda and Labour are a joke, they have no policies only attack dogs. I may be forced to vote independent for the rest of my life at this rate.

Seriously- where do you draw the line.

Macha

Trotter wrote: »

Well in fairness to you, we still need people like yourself who are passionate about green issues. This is what frustrates me so much. Its a disgrace that Green TDs will set the Green movement in general back so many years.

The problem is, as I see it, that the Greens will always be a minority. Labour is of course a more natural ally. What's the best way to get the mainstream parties to improve the sustainability of their policies? That seems to be the only way forward as I can see it, given that the Greens will probably be in opposition for a while. And when they get back in - will it really be any different?

I got involved with the Greens to help work towards improving Ireland's environmental track record, not just to have power for the sake of it. At the same time, I'm not going to jump ship and head over to FG/Labour just because they will probably be in power next.

Trotter wrote: »

I'd love to see the Greens go, and a FG/Lab/Green government in next time. The only hope of that is for the Greens to go now, and to run new candidates that disown your existing leaders.

I wouldn't do that. I think Eamon Ryan does an excellent job. But you might be right about leaving government.

Trotter

mike65 wrote: »

Brian Cowen has just issued a statement giving his full support to the liar.

Good.. Now.. Eamon Ryan should sit John Gormley down, tell him the game is up and call it a day. He should make a statement to the nation saying why the Greens are going, and say it is because of the lack of ethics, honesty and lack of any pride in public office by his government partners.

He should then ask the nation to support him in his efforts to rid cute hoorism from politics by supporting Green candidates (He might get a few votes if he goes now).

He should look to take the leadership of the Green party (Gormley's got zero respect, Ryan has a little bit left I think..) and then get on his knees in front of the electorate and run a campaign purely on Green policies and ethical politics. That would include a public statement that a Green party in coallition next time would have a zero tolerance for the kind of FF muck they're up to their neck in..

And then he should say some quiet prayers.. and hope. Even then he might be at nothing. BUT.. I'd support or even join a new party with ethics and environmental policies at its core.. but I'd need to know they wouldnt stay in government like this shower have.

They've got a 2 day window I reckon to save the Green movement in Ireland. It'll take liathróidí on Eamon Ryan's part to make or break it.

anymore

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Wow, just wow.

You know I was a registered Green and despite all that has happened was going to give them my support at the next election but if they stand by and let Willie continue in office after he commited libel, slander and perjury without pulling the plug I may never vote Green again.

I've never voted for FF nor would I, FG are awful under Enda and Labour are a joke, they have no policies only attack dogs. I may be forced to vote independent for the rest of my life at this rate.

Seriously- where do you draw the line.

I sympatise with your position; voting in Irish elections seems to be an exercise in selecting the least worst option !

Liam Byrne

taconnol wrote: »

At this stage I'll have to assume you don't understand the implications of voting against the government on this issue.

Nicely patronising :rolleyes:

The implications are that justice is done.

You don't seem to understand the implications of voting WITH them.

taconnol wrote: »

God, the populist rants and religious references are getting more tiring by the day. You would think Enda Kenny is God at this stage.

Another tried-and-tested FF slur - "populist rant", as if it were an unreasonable comment.

Tell me - why is it "populist" ? Because it reflects most of the population ?

And Kenny/FG kicked out the corrupt TD Lowry when he was found out, so - compared to FF & The Greens yes, he is God.

taconnol wrote: »

How many more times does this have to be explained. The Greens only got 6% of the vote. Why, now, does everyone expect the Greens to have enough power to implement everything they want in government? If it was that important to everyone, why did only 6% vote for the Greens?

No-one's expecting the Greens to implement everything they want!!! What the hell does that have to do with implementing everything the people want, including ethical and competent Government ?

I have no respect for the Greens at this stage; I might have voted for them last time out, but they've proven on at least 3 major occasions that they have no desire to represent me or my views.

taconnol wrote: »

And if it isn't that important to you and you're just complaining about the principle of having to compromise in a coalition government, I suggest you read up on the realities of coalition governments.

You can compromise on LESS IMPORTANT ISSUES all you want. You do not compromise on corruption, incompetence and borderline/illegal activities.

Mr. Incognito

Agree with the above- I'm as staunch Green as it gets but the main reason that the Greens made so much ground in the last election is that they were seen as a new party with core ethical principals.

i.e reform of local government to help combat bribes etc.

This is an ethical issue. The Party has to make a stand. If they stand back and allow a sitting Minister who has committed illegal acts their credibility is gone and the sell out is complete.

There are no agenda's that the Greens could possibly push through in this term that would make up for supporting illegality or even percieved illegality in Government. To the public they are the same thing.

NO-ONE is above the Law or the Office.

anymore

The Irish Times is carrying a report on Boyles interview on Niall Prendvilles radio show this morning :
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0218/breaking36.html
Here is a sample of it :
".
"What concerns me is that we have been seen to support and condone the type of behaviour where people smear each other during election campaigns ....... - that was why I was expressing my discomfort.
"It [expressing his views on Facebook and Twitter] was largely personal but it was done out of concern at the position that the party finds itself so I consider that part of my job as chairman," said Mr Boyle ."

To me it seems to be the typical Dan Boyle effort to get favourable attention drawn to himself with it actually meaning anything at all. Lamentable !

Macha

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You can compromise on LESS IMPORTANT ISSUES all you want. You do not compromise on corruption, incompetence and borderline/illegal activities.

You're completely right. I'm sorry. After participating in these threads this morning, you've all managed to change my mind. Either he goes or Greens should go.

And I was a bit patronising so apologies about that as well.

meditraitor

taconnol wrote: »

You're completely right. I'm sorry. After participating in these threads this morning, you've all managed to change my mind. Either he goes or Greens should go.

And I was a bit patronising so apologies about that as well.

Guys/gals like yourself are the reason I still believe the greens have something to offer.

Trotter

If only the top 6 or 7 in the Green Party could see that they have a chance to save this ship.

Does anyone actually think they will go over this? I still honestly don't, even as things have got 'hairier' all day.

taconnol, Hold onto all that passion for what you believe in.. You'll have a chance to use it if they go now.

FlashGordon1969

Dan Boyle is a poltical joke-what the hell does it matter if he has no confidence given that his party has voted to keep Willie in office?? Why doesn't he resign?I pity the position the Greens are in but their lust for mercs (high emission ones) got the better of them. Being in coalition is always difficult as a smaller party but with FF you not only have to deal with economic quagmires/incompetence but moral black holes as well.

BennyLava

Can the grassroots of the Green party force the issue if necessary, an egm if you will,
surely the time for the members of the Green party to stand up and try to salvage what's left of their party is now.

Gormley and Co. won't have a leg to stand on if you make your voices heard, they had to go to you to pass the revised program for government. Can you not force them to listen to you to save the Green movement

maynooth_rules

BennyLava wrote: »

Can the grassroots of the Green party force the issue if necessary, an egm if you will,
surely the time for the members of the Green party to stand up and try to salvage what's left of their party is now.

Gormley and Co. won't have a leg to stand on if you make your voices heard, they had to go to you to pass the revised program for government. Can you not force them to listen to you to save the Green movement

The higher authorities in the party would just structure the vote to suit them, just like they did at their egm over NAMA. No doubt they would say something like 95% of people present have to vote for us to come out of government for it to happen. Remember 69% of the grassroot greens rejected NAMA in the vote, but they still accepted it

Dempo1

This guy is beyond belief and it amazes me anyone takes him seriously. He is not even capable of getting elected. It was bad enough watching Eamon Whine embarrass himself defending O Dea in the Dail yesterday only to have senator Buffoon make a fool of him. The mind boggles at what is the greens strategy, i just wish they would just stop, appraise the mess they have contributed, take it on the chin, pull out and whilst in the political wilderness take time to figure out what it is they stand for. The Farce on the door steps of the dail after Deidre de burca's departure said it all, they could even agree on a coherent response. And while i am on about poor Deidre, one has to question her motives, again a failed politician sulking because she did not get a nice little earner in Europe. God, when is this country going to return back to some Political sanity.

stakey

Dempo1 wrote: »

when is this country going to return back to some Political sanity.

Has to have had political sanity in the firstplace to do that

Macha

maynooth_rules wrote: »

The higher authorities in the party would just structure the vote to suit them, just like they did at their egm over NAMA. No doubt they would say something like 95% of people present have to vote for us to come out of government for it to happen. Remember 69% of the grassroot greens rejected NAMA in the vote, but they still accepted it

Alright that is not fair. 31% of members voted in favour of a motion calling on the parliamentary party to vote against NAMA legislation in the Dáil. That means 69% opposed the motion.

And the "higher authorities" can't change the voting requirements to 95%, etc.

Trotter

As the hype draws to a close for today (I can feel the tension dropping off).. here's my prediction:

Greens to chat for the weekend, push Cowan and threaten to walk of Willie isnt sacked. Willie walks (or is urged to walk) into the sunset in a JOD like blaze of glory, citing how he has been victimised into walking away, with his martyred head held high. Bev may even go with standing ovation 2.0.

Weeks later, Willie to be given a nice little earner to make up for any loss of wages, and will retain the love of the FF faithful.

The Greens will say.. Look what we did!! , and in a few months time, something else will kick off and we'll be right back here again rubbing our hands at the thought of giving FF the boot.

Its just not going to happen. Those Greens at the top and tied too tight to FF/Ministerial jollies/cars/attention etc. They are going nowhere and we can suck it up. This is just too big to be about policies. If this is about policies, then the Greens are acknowledging that getting policies through is far more important than ethical standards. Either way, theres no way they're walking.

This is a good day for Irish politics and hopefully is the beginning of the end for this corrupt inept government.

The spineless Greens are finally going to stand up for themselves but it won't save them in the next election.

IrishTonyO

Eamon Gilmore on Newstalk at the moment, saying the word around Leinster House is that O'Dea will be gone by this evening.

baalthor

Trotter wrote: »

As the hype draws to a close for today (I can feel the tension dropping off).. here's my prediction:

Greens to chat for the weekend, push Cowan and threaten to walk of Willie isnt sacked. Willie walks (or is urged to walk) into the sunset in a JOD like blaze of glory, citing how he has been victimised into walking away, with his martyred head held high.

I'd say you're right ...
I struggle to think of what would make the Greens pull out.

InisMor

Cowan won't give up O'Dea easily. O'Dea is loyal to the death and Cowan needs that.

Macha

I did hear rumblings that there will be a Green Party statement at 6pm. Don't hold me to it though..

IrishTonyO

taconnol wrote: »

I did hear rumblings that there will be a Green Party statement at 6pm. Don't hold me to it though..

That's what Gilmore said, that O'Dea would be gone at 6 o'clock

Liam Byrne

taconnol wrote: »

Alright that is not fair. 31% of members voted in favour of a motion calling on the parliamentary party to vote against NAMA legislation in the Dáil. That means 69% opposed the motion.

And the "higher authorities" can't change the voting requirements to 95%, etc.

It's perfectly fair, because they phrased it for "two-thirds against" rather than "two-thirds in favour" (or something along those lines) and they had the reverse phrasing for the other motion.

In other words, they used a loophole in the voting requirements to give the issue a better chance of going through.

Changing that didn't require a "change in the voting requirements"; it just required rephrasing the motion.

InisMor

IrishTonyO wrote: »

That's what Gilmore said, that O'Dea would be gone at 6 o'clock

Gilmore is wrong. Again.

Gormley went to Cowan about O'Dea. Cowan told Gormley to shove it.

Now the Green's need to figure how to stay in government.

Now there is some tool (who never got elected) from the Green's who went to the Gardai about O'Dea (who gets nearly 20,000 votes every time) on the radio with Mary Wilson.

IrishTonyO

InisMor wrote: »

Gilmore is wrong. Again.

Gormley went to Cowan about O'Dea. Cowan told Gormley to shove it.

Now the Green's need to figure how to stay in government.

Now there is some tool (who never got elected) from the Green's who went to the Gardai about O'Dea (who gets nearly 20,000 votes every time) on the radio with Mary Wilson.

and you got this inside information from where?

Trotter

Trotter wrote: »

As the hype draws to a close for today (I can feel the tension dropping off)..

I may have been slightly hasty... It seems theres life in the day yet

Willie to be gone sooner than I thought,

or

Greens to have the decision whether to stay or go put in their laps.
Even if this meeting between Gormley and Cowan has happened as mentioned elsewhere, and Cowan has told Gormley to jog on, I still dont see Gormley walking.

Macha

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It's perfectly fair, because they phrased it for "two-thirds against" rather than "two-thirds in favour" (or something along those lines) and they had the reverse phrasing for the other motion.

What's the difference? How does that give it a better chance? At the end of the day 31% voted against NAMA and 69% voted in favour.

Liam Byrne

taconnol wrote: »

What's the difference? How does that give it a better chance? At the end of the day 31% voted against NAMA and 69% voted in favour.

Here's an example :

1) "Are you explicitly in favour of abortion ?"
2) "Are you explicitly against abortion ?"

I know some people who would vote "No" to both.

Another example :

1) "Do you want the death penalty introduced ?"
2) "Do you oppose the introduction of the death penalty ?"

Again, people could vote "No" to both.

In either of the above cases, it's pretty clear that the percentages could vary depending on which question was used.

So

1) Do you support NAMA ?
2) Do you object to NAMA ?

Are actually two completely different questions - it's not simply that one is the negative of the other, because someone could vote "No" to #2 but that would not imply that they would have voted "Yes" to #1.

The bottom line is that 69% did not vote in favour of NAMA. Only 31% were strongly against it, but there's no guarantee that 69% were strongly in favour of it.

stepbar

Dan Boyle has no confidence in Willie O'Dea? I have no confidence in Dan Boyle....

Dannyboy1987

I've No confidence in this government. Nothing will ever change with Willie and co in charge .

Macha

O'Dea gone - from a number of accounts. Fingers crossed!

IrishTonyO

Fianna Fail meeting happening at the moment.....................

InisMor

IrishTonyO wrote: »

and you got this inside information from where?

Because the Green's are spineless.

Why do you think they've run back into another meeting?

Hardly likely to pull out of government are they.

The meeting with Cowan and the visit to the Gardai is not "insider information".

johngalway

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Pat Rabbitte Eamon Gilmore on Newstalk at the moment, saying the word around Leinster House is that O'Dea will be gone by this evening.

................................................................

IrishTonyO

InisMor wrote: »

Gilmore is wrong. Again.

Gormley went to Cowan about O'Dea. Cowan told Gormley to shove it.

so it's your opinion not a statement

taconnol

taconnol wrote: »

O'Dea gone - from a number of accounts. Fingers crossed!

Hopefully the rest of this useless government are soon to follow :mad:

Trotter

If indeed Willie is gone, and it means Greens stay put, I won't be celebrating.
He's hardley going to be replaced by Mother Teresa.


We need an election.

InisMor

Dannyboy1987 wrote: »

I've No confidence in this government. Nothing will ever change with Willie and co in charge .

whereas Enda Kenny as leader would benefit us how exactly???

There is nobody capable of leading this country.

meditraitor

InisMor wrote: »

whereas Enda Kenny as leader would benefit us how exactly???

There is nobody capable of leading this country.

I could lead it better than present incumbants,

For Forks Sake

stepbar wrote: »

Dan Boyle has no confidence in Willie O'Dea? I have no confidence in Dan Boyle....

A clown with no electoral mandate, yet he pops up on every media outlet spouting on as if he was runnng the country

InisMor

InisMor wrote: »

whereas Enda Kenny as leader would benefit us how exactly???

There is nobody capable of leading this country.

At this stage it's Anyone but FF tbh.