Competition: Variations on a theme 1 (Kim)

pickarooney

I'm away tae beid. For those in Vancouver, you have until midnight when I'm pulling down the shutters.

Antilles

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm away tae beid. For those in Vancouver, you have until midnight when I'm pulling down the shutters.

Noooo! I saw you online after 00:00 and hoped you'd be putting up all the entries now. D'oh!

pickarooney

OK, time's up and we have 18 entries. Good show people and thanks to all who took the time to participate.

I'm going to unsticky this thread and create a new one just for the stories. I realised last night that a poll would finally be the best way of counting votes as, if it's a tight race then it will be impossible to tell if thanks were added before or after the end of voting. By all means thank posts as well if you feel like it.

Voting will open as soon as all posts are up and will run until 9AM on the 11th, with the winner officially announced on Monday 12th (although the outcome should be obvious once the poll closes).

Any feedback on the stories themselves should be in the new thread. Please give as much feedback to as many stories as you can, positive, negative, neutral, as long as it's in some way constructive.

Any comments or questions on the competition itself should either be posted here or PMed to me if it's urgent.

If, when reading back your own story, you notice something is not right (I think I've got all the late updates and will do my best to preserve basic formatting), pop me a PM and I'll correct it as soon as I can.

Best of luck!

pickarooney

Voting is now OPEN! (although if anyone votes in the next hour, they haven't read all the entries and they're banned!)
Thread is here.

Mr E

Man thats alot to read.....

Thanks for organising this, pickarooney. Looking forward to reading them properly over the next couple of days.

pickarooney

Looking at them all together, it is quite a lot to take in and I'm wondering if the deadline shouldn't be extended....

Mr E

Just mulling it over, I think people should be asked to pick their top 3 or top 5 (rather than tick all of their favourites). Imagine if I ticked every story except story 12, for example. How bad would that person feel?

Just a thought...

Antilles

I think the deadline is fine. Just read them all and have a few that I think stand out above the rest. I'll wait till other people start voting before I add my own comments though!

dawvee

Just finished reading them through as well. There are a few stand-outs, for sure.

I've resorted to jotting down a few notes for a number of the stories, and I'll post some of those in the thread once I've had another look over them.

pickarooney

Mr E wrote: »

Just mulling it over, I think people should be asked to pick their top 3 or top 5 (rather than tick all of their favourites). Imagine if I ticked every story except story 12, for example. How bad would that person feel?

Just a thought...

Pfff, if they feel bad they can write a poem or something

Oryx

Have read through, and agree a few really stand above the rest.

Were a murderous lot though. Kim gets killed quite a bit. Other than that a lot of the stories were remarkably similar, even given the rigid structure, I would have expected more differences in the actual story, but most of us generally did similar things with it. Interesting to see how different the style of the stories are though, because of writing style and clever tweaking.

Memnoch

the deadline is fine, but I agree, we should be limited to ticking 5 stories or something. It's a bit much to be able to vote for every story. Also, would be nice if we could agree to refrain from voting for ourselves, this could be easily added to the rules since no one has voted yet, and it will be obvious if anyone has done so when the names are posted later?

dawvee

I found it funny how many people went with the man in the green jacket being shabby, smelly, repulsive, etc. Though all told most don't paint a very flattering picture of Kim, either. Writers are a surly bunch, apparently. :pac:

Memnoch

Can we vote more than once (not for the same excerpt). For example, vote for a particular excerpt, and leave our reason in a post, then come back later and do the same for another.

Or do we have to compile all our feedback as well as the votes together in a single go?

pickarooney

No, take your time and do it piecemeal. Often you'll change your mind about something as soon as you've posted or a couple of days later.

If you vote for yourself, remember you have to give yourself feedback and the poll is public, so if you can handle the scorn, I've no problem with shameless self-promotion.

I think only 2 people made Kim a man and nobody had him/her as Asian. The majority went with heart attacks and there was quite a lot of death.

I need to read them all through again, particularly the resumbissions and will give feedback to all 18 entries when I vote.

Who's going to be the first to the polling booth?

dr.bollocko

pickarooney wrote: »

No, take your time and do it piecemeal. Often you'll change your mind about something as soon as you've posted or a couple of days later.

If you vote for yourself, remember you have to give yourself feedback and the poll is public, so if you can handle the scorn, I've no problem with shameless self-promotion.

I think only 2 people made Kim a man and nobody had him/her as Asian. The majority went with heart attacks and there was quite a lot of death.

I need to read them all through again, particularly the resumbissions and will give feedback to all 18 entries when I vote.

Who's going to be the first to the polling booth?

AFAIK you can't edit your poll vote once you vote.
So if you only vote for one person initially then you cannot vote again.

Memnoch

dr.bollocko wrote: »

AFAIK you can't edit your poll vote once you vote.
So if you only vote for one person initially then you cannot vote again.

Yeah, that's what I was worried about. I don't think the forum software will allow us to change our vote, so while we can keep adding feedback over time, once you vote that's it. I'm just gonna compile my feedback in open office and then do it all at once, will prolly take me a few days though.

pickarooney

Rats to that Can mods edit people's votes if they request it on thread?
I foresee Ukraine-scale jiggery-pokery...

dr.bollocko

pickarooney wrote: »

Rats to that Can mods edit people's votes if they request it on thread?
I foresee Ukraine-scale jiggery-pokery...

No they cannot.
They can however manipulate poll results (IE change the total awarded to a certain value in the poll) but not individual votes if it's public.

Antilles

pickarooney wrote: »

I think only 2 people made Kim a man and nobody had him/her as Asian. The majority went with heart attacks and there was quite a lot of death.

Hey pickarooney, my main character was an Asian

man! I never specified his race in the text because I didn't think it was relevant, but the characters name (as given at the start) is Jim Kim, as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Kim_%28Star_Trek%29

dawvee

pickarooney wrote: »

I think only 2 people made Kim a man and nobody had him/her as Asian.

There was one on the second page that clearly referred to Kim as Chinese, I think.

pickarooney

Shows how much attention I was paying

davyjose

Lads, telling people what you went for is only going to sway the vote. We can maybe discuss them in more detail after the poll closes.

Mods, if i'm out of line, sorry. But maybe this thread should be locked for just the entries. So far peoples eyes are being drawn to 1, 17, and even 13 & 14. I know mine are. In fact, 13 has been spoilered on me

--amadeus--

After this is over it would be quite nice if the winning author posted about thier story, where the inspiration came from, what (if anything) they were trying to say, etc and allowed us to ask questions

LegacyUser

davyjose wrote: »

Lads, telling people what you went for is only going to sway the vote. We can maybe discuss them in more detail after the poll closes.

Mods, if i'm out of line, sorry. But maybe this thread should be locked for just the entries. So far peoples eyes are being drawn to 1, 17, and even 13 & 14. I know mine are. In fact, 13 has been spoilered on me

I agree with this, I was a definite no on one of those and now I keep looking at it to see what the other person saw in it. I haven't even read some of the others because I'm focusing on those ones. (I'm taking my time before I make a final vote.) I must be highly suggestible. Maybe we could have the comments on another thread so that weak willed people like me can make their own decisions first before commenting on why.

Oryx

davyjose wrote: »

Lads, telling people what you went for is only going to sway the vote. We can maybe discuss them in more detail after the poll closes.

Mods, if i'm out of line, sorry. But maybe this thread should be locked for just the entries. So far peoples eyes are being drawn to 1, 17, and even 13 & 14. I know mine are. In fact, 13 has been spoilered on me

I made sure to read the stories and vote (I noted the numbers as I read)before reading any feedback. From reading, your own decision should be made before you get this far, anyway. Dont ask me to come back in ten days and comment, Ill have lost my train of thought then.

ToasterSparks

Davyjose: If you're going to read the replies before you read the stories, then that's entirely up to you. But most people that wrote stories will look through all the entires and rate them all on their merits. I know no amount of praise for any of the ones I didn't like would 'sway' me to vote for them instead.

I put spoiler tags on my previous post in case people accidentally see it before they read version 13.

As Oryx said, I'm not going to reply in a week's time as I'll have lost my trail of thought and forget the points I wanted to say. I'm assuming people will actually read the stories, instead of reading the comments and picking out the ones that were mentioned. Everyone's tastes are different anyways, so I don't think it will affect the voting.

pickarooney

I've moved any posts which don't involve direct feedback on the stories in here in order to leave the voting thread uncluttered.

I don't see the point of hiding the story feedback away from the stories themselves. If you need to read someone else's opinion to help form your own, so be it. It's unfortunate that inevitably there will be reader fatigue getting toward the end of the list, but there's little that can be done about that and I did draw the posting order randomly so there's a certain luck of the draw in there. On the other hand, you might have forgotten the earlier stories by the time you get to the end...

pickarooney

I got bored at work yesterday and did one myself, then started trying to do a few 'in the style of' versions (Chaucer, Austen, Dan Brown). Not as easy as it appears.

Anyone feel like having a go (hors concours) at, say, a Shakespearean version? A haiku? A limerick?

pickarooney

20 second effort:

A medical student called Kim
Stopped off on her way from the gym
A man in a vest
Went down holding his chest
In the post office, sucks to be him

10 second effort:

In the post office
A man in a green jacket
Dies in front of Kim

Antilles

Mr E wrote:

Pickarooney - put up the next skeleton when you think of a subject .... I loved doing this and I want to write (and read!) more. Some terrific work here by everyone.

davyjose wrote: »

MR.E, I still think the winner should choose the next skeleton

Well, I don't think its going to be me, but I do like the idea of the winner choosing the next topic

Oh, and I assume the other writers are going to be revealed too, once voting is complete?

pickarooney

Sorry for being anally-retentive, but I moved a post here as it had no feedback.

I'd be on for running a new competition in May (after the voting closes there should be time for everyone to ask for and get direct feedback nonanonanonymously). As for the format and content, we can discuss this here.

Memnoch

pickarooney wrote: »

Sorry for being anally-retentive, but I moved a post here as it had no feedback.

I'd be on for running a new competition in May (after the voting closes there should be time for everyone to ask for and get direct feedback nonanonanonymously). As for the format and content, we can discuss this here.

Well, it doesn't need to be a competition, but it would be nice to have something for April, just as a writing exercise to get the oul' creativity flowing.

pickarooney

I won't be around much, if at all, next week and will probably be up the walls with work the week after so feel free to come up with something amongst yourselves.

Just... not one of those I write a line/you write a line things, all right

Oryx

I know weve no winner yet, m'kay... I know this, Im not trying to preempt anything. But cos Ive been working on the Kim variations theme, this other beginning has been stuck in my head, and I want to see what you all think. Its a very bare skeleton, a lot less information than the first one, even. I thought it might get away from the similarity issue we had of too many green jackets and female Kim's who hate smelly men. I just throw it out as I wonder if it might be the type of thing we could use.

Jude sits on a plane, midflight. In Jude's jacket pocket is a piece of paper containing details that will change Jude's life forever. The plane's intercom pings and the captain makes an announcement...

This type of thing could go anywhere, and Id be interested in seeing where writers would take it. Obviously the actual framework we all use might not be this, but you get where Im coming from?

ToasterSparks

Oryx wrote: »

I know weve no winner yet, m'kay... I know this, Im not trying to preempt anything. But cos Ive been working on the Kim variations theme, this other beginning has been stuck in my head, and I want to see what you all think. Its a very bare skeleton, a lot less information than the first one, even. I thought it might get away from the similarity issue we had of too many green jackets and female Kim's who hate smelly men. I just throw it out as I wonder if it might be the type of thing we could use.

Jude sits on a plane, midflight. In Jude's jacket pocket is a piece of paper containing details that will change Jude's life forever. The plane's intercom pings and the captain makes an announcement...

This type of thing could go anywhere, and Id be interested in seeing where writers would take it. Obviously the actual framework we all use might not be this, but you get where Im coming from?

Yeah I agree Oryx.

I think the Kim skeleton was almost a little too constricted, and made things a little repetitive when I read the different versions. Whereas something like your Jude scenario gives an opportunity to branch off in a huge range of directions.

Mr E

I like it. Potential for alot more variety than Kim's story...

Antilles

Oryx wrote: »

I know weve no winner yet, m'kay... I know this, Im not trying to preempt anything. But cos Ive been working on the Kim variations theme, this other beginning has been stuck in my head, and I want to see what you all think. Its a very bare skeleton, a lot less information than the first one, even. I thought it might get away from the similarity issue we had of too many green jackets and female Kim's who hate smelly men. I just throw it out as I wonder if it might be the type of thing we could use.

Jude sits on a plane, midflight. In Jude's jacket pocket is a piece of paper containing details that will change Jude's life forever. The plane's intercom pings and the captain makes an announcement...

This type of thing could go anywhere, and Id be interested in seeing where writers would take it. Obviously the actual framework we all use might not be this, but you get where Im coming from?

I'm not sure if less or more detail would be better, but I'd like to see where we might get with less. The above skeleton has a lot of potential -- I'd almost start working on a story for it straight away

pickarooney

Not much activity in the voting thread. Anyone want to start this new one? I'm only on line for about 10 mins a day this week.

N1njapirate

where do I find the versions to read.. If someone could direct me, rather than me rifling through pages of posts.

cheers..

Oryx

Its stickied at the top of the creative writing forum, should be the first one or two? Says vote here. Cant link as am on mobile.

davyjose

Oryx wrote: »

I know weve no winner yet, m'kay... I know this, Im not trying to preempt anything. But cos Ive been working on the Kim variations theme, this other beginning has been stuck in my head, and I want to see what you all think. Its a very bare skeleton, a lot less information than the first one, even. I thought it might get away from the similarity issue we had of too many green jackets and female Kim's who hate smelly men. I just throw it out as I wonder if it might be the type of thing we could use.

Jude sits on a plane, midflight. In Jude's jacket pocket is a piece of paper containing details that will change Jude's life forever. The plane's intercom pings and the captain makes an announcement...

This type of thing could go anywhere, and Id be interested in seeing where writers would take it. Obviously the actual framework we all use might not be this, but you get where Im coming from?

Will we set a closing date for this, so? End of the month?

(Great idea btw, Oryx)

pickarooney

I'm not sure what the status of this is.
Do we have
a) a defined wordcount
b) end date
c) anyone already working on it
d) submission criteria
e) anything else?

ToasterSparks

How about I suggest some things and people can agree or disagree?


We use Oryx's outline - is this now assumed to be settled?

[a] Shall we say ''no more than 1000 words'' similar to the last word count?
A closing date of 1st May would give us nearly three weeks to submit a story.
[c] I haven't started yet, but I've some ideas in my head, and others seem to have too.
[d/e]
---Was a simple copy/paste the best solution?
---Does anyone thing that attaching a Word document or PDF would be easier to read?
---Should we divide voting into rounds? Maybe 4/5 stories per round and each winner goes onto a final vote? Or would people getting voting fatigue?
---Can we promote the competition or find ways to get more people on Boards to vote?

pickarooney

For d) I meant anonymous or not, PM or forum post etc.

Mr E

a) An upper limit word count is a good idea (+100 if you're really pushed). My Kim story was about 1060 words I think...
b) Nothing wrong with setting an end date. I think 3 weeks is probably enough time.
c) I have started. I've done about 700 words I think.

d) I'm not sure how to manage the competition itself. I skimmed over most entries the day you published them, and read them properly that night. Took about half an hour and I really enjoyed it. As long as you're getting less than 25 or so entries, this should be manageable.

I'd say lay down some ground rules at the very start (i.e. everyone has to vote for their top 5). Some people voted for 1, some 5, some in between. This should lead to a better spread of votes.

For publicising the competition, I'll happily add a link to the new one in my signature, and I'm sure others here will do the same. When the time comes to vote, we can update our sigs accordingly.

Maybe get the Arts CMods to add a cat-wide announcement? (If that's possible)

Pickarooney - you should post to the Arts Moderators forum for some advice. As a moderator of a forum in that category, you should have access.

ToasterSparks

As regards promoting the Short Story Comp, I've set up a Twitter page if anyone is interested:

Irish Writers


There are already a few followers. It's just for anything related to this forum, especially the Short Story competitions.

pickarooney

Seeing as people have started, is 1st May OK with the same rules as last time only you must vote for your top 3, in order?

Mr E

Yup, start a new thread for competition 2. Make it official.

Oryx

a) a defined wordcount
I assume the word count is the same as the last? 1000ish?
b) end date
End of April would make me get my finger out.
c) anyone already working on it
Only throwing together an idea in my head, but getting it on paper is usually a fast affair, the tweaking after that is what takes time.
d) submission criteria
I liked that the last one was anonymous. Because like it or not, if you know a poster well, you might make assumptions and grant leeway that you otherwise might not.
e) anything else?
A lot of the time I access m.boards. So linking to stories uploaded elsewhere wont work for me, the phone browser cant cope. I also think we need to come up with a way of removing reader fatigue. We lost out on votes as I think people couldnt stick with reading so much, the thread itself got viewed loads. All writers who submit stories MUST vote, I think thats important. It was dissappointing that even the winner didnt vote. (Tut tut amadeus ).