Shame - Minister for Justice backs O'Dea

Raiser

Mods - Please resist your usual instinct to lock this citing other threads mentioning Willie O'Dea, its a Politics Forum, not the Message Board equivalent of a Clown Car - Sincere thanks


I think that this Political act of suicide deserves its own space due to the fact that we are in the thoroughly unique and very sad situation where we are the only Country on Earth where the the Minister for Justice feels that it is acceptable to support, condone and champion the an act which has widely been described across the printed and broadcasr Media as an instance of perjury in our High Court.

I think that Dermot Ahern has ably demonstrated that his current position as Minister for Justice is untenable and should step down without delay.

Dermot Ahern wrote:

Fine Gael are returning to type. They’ve always tried to get the dirt on people. It is despicable, to be honest

Dermot Ahern wrote:

Where was George Lee last week? You jettisoned him. We have a bit more loyalty!

walshb

And Michael Martin on this morning saying how Willie is a Minister possessing the highest integrity:rolleyes: You couldn't make it up...

jmayo

walshb wrote: »

And Michael Martin on this morning saying how Willie is a Minister possessing the highest integrity:rolleyes: You couldn't make it up...

and pual gogarty admitted he thought wht o'dea dfid was unethical but he will still support him.

For anyone that thinks lenihan is anything different than your standard ffer sleveen who couldn't give a sh** about what anyone thinks, watch or listen to his defence of willie o'dea.
This is the man that some ffers and non ffers are holding up as some shingin light for the future. :rolleyes:

What makes it even worse for him and that git dermot ahern is that they are officers of the court.
lenihan is a senior counsel and his wife is a ciruit court judge.
ahern is a solicitor.
In case anyone thinks o'dea doesn't know the law, he is a barrister who has lectured both in UCD and UL.

Why should the drug dealers and murderers in Limerick give a sh** about the courts when the guy they elect to represent them in parliament doesn't either ?

tbh

I don't really care about him "forgetting" he said it. I care A LOT about the fact that he thought it was ok to say in the first place. He was a big man talking to a journo, sniggering behind his hands and spreading his crap. Let him stand over the comments now, they were good enough to say then, why not now?

shambles, tbh.

Liam Byrne

Ahern is comparing George Lee to Willie O'Dea ?

Don't think I've ever seen "quitting in frustration" listed as illegal.

As for "returning to type" and "trying to get dirt on people", I'd prefer FG's "type" any day, and you don't really have to "try" to get dirt on FF......they give you loads of it along the way all by themselves through their incompetence and self-interest.

jmayo

tbh wrote: »

I don't really care about him "forgetting" he said it. I care A LOT about the fact that he thought it was ok to say in the first place. He was a big man talking to a journo, sniggering behind his hands and spreading his crap. Let him stand over the comments now, they were good enough to say then, why not now?

shambles, tbh.

He nearly did it agian in the Dáil yesterday when he raised the fact Quinlivan's brother shot his way out of Brixton jail.
What had to do with his false claims or his lie to the high court ?

Then he claimed Arthur Morgan denied a possible paedophile Liam Adams was a member of SF.

He is nothing but a vile sh** spreading little rat who has absolutely no ethics or morals.

IrishTonyO

The tape of the interview with Willie O'Dea is going to be played on Lunchtime on Newstalk with Eamon Keane.

tbh

Raiser wrote: »

I think that this Political act of suicide deserves its own space due to the fact that we are in the thoroughly unique and very sad situation where we are the only Country on Earth where the the Minister for Justice feels that it is acceptable to support, condone and champion the act of perjury in our High Court.

.

I don't think he was convicted of perjury was he? you might want to edit that.

IrishTonyO

tbh wrote: »

I don't think he was convicted of perjury was he? you might want to edit that.

not yet but who knows

tbh

IrishTonyO wrote: »

not yet but who knows

I think the case is finished.
Perjury "is the willful act of swearing a false oath or affirmation to tell the truth"

It's been accepted by all sides that it wasn't wilful. There's enough rope to hang him without making stuff up.

IrishTonyO

tbh wrote: »

I think the case is finished.
Perjury "is the willful act of swearing a false oath or affirmation to tell the truth"

It's been accepted by all sides that it wasn't wilful. There's enough rope to hang him without making stuff up.

There was a private settlement approved by the courts regarding defamation. Nothing regarding perjury has been dealt with.

jmayo

Dáil suspended because Opposition (Kenny Hayes, Ó Caoláin) kept asking for o'dea to correct his claim yesterday that Gardaá had provided him with confidential information when they claim they haven't.

Kenny asked if the Tanaiste thought that her colleagues actions were unethical, Yes or NO ?
She waffled and refused to answer.

Mort ironic thing of the day was Ceann Chomhairle complaining to Kenny his actions were lowering the standards of the house. :rolleyes:

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin rasied another interesting point about o'dea tellking canvassers in Limerick to spread the defamatory remarks about Quinlivan.

Raiser

tbh wrote: »

I think the case is finished.
Perjury "is the willful act of swearing a false oath or affirmation to tell the truth"

It's been accepted by all sides that it wasn't wilful. There's enough rope to hang him without making stuff up.

Sorry?

Wasn't wilful?

Says who?

HA?

- You're confusing Willie O'Dea's choice of a defence strategy with actual real life and past events......

Willie O'Dea sang the song and danced the little shuffling steps right up until the point where a recording was produced and then suddenly had to pay his way out as quietly as possible last December 2008.

- I'd love to see Willie O'Dea argue the semantics of Perjury on the basis of his sworn affidavits and the legal and logical chicanery he is currently asking us to swallow in order to extricate himself from this laughable mess.

Regardless, as of today there are 1,700 Google hits for "Willie O'Dea" Perjury, a growing number of Newspaper articles citing Perjury and multiple other references using the term to imply that sworn evidence was submitted in a manner contrary to legal ethics.

tbh

Raiser wrote: »

Sorry?

Wasn't wilful?

Says who?

HA?

says the court, O'Dea, and Maurice Quinlivan

Willie O'Dea sang the song and danced the little shuffling steps right up until the point where a recording was produced and then suddenly had to pay his way out as quietly as possible last December 2008.

I don't argue that. But it's ironic that you're telling - telling mind, not asking! - the mods to leave this thread open, when the one thing that will get it closed is you making the claim that he committed perjury. He's not been convicted of that, therefore you can't say it.

but that's just the facts - you rant on dude. you rant on.

Raiser

jmayo wrote: »

Most ironic thing of the day was Ceann Chomhairle complaining to Kenny his actions were lowering the standards of the house. :rolleyes:

When this matter was first raised the Ceann Comhairle, in my opinion, did a fine job of hushing it up and smothering all debate on the subject.....

- May as well have said "Ah now sit down and shut up, I've a nice cushy job and a smashing little wooden Hammer and aren't we all going to be richer soon?"

tbh wrote: »

says the court, O'Dea, and Maurice Quinlivan

Not speaking about this case at all; But is it not commonplace for The Court to be in a sense bypassed in certain proceedings where arrangements are made for the two parties to meet and one Party suddenly agrees to admit their wrongdoing, pay costs and walk away tip-toe away as quietly as possible in the hope of escaping a Media Circus/Public condemnation?????

jmayo wrote: »

I don't argue that. But it's ironic that you're telling - telling mind, not asking! - the mods to leave this thread open, when the one thing that will get it closed is you making the claim that he committed perjury. He's not been convicted of that, therefore you can't say it.

but that's just the facts - you rant on dude. you rant on.

Post title and subject line edited in the interests of avoiding censure on the topic.

walshb

tbh wrote: »

I think the case is finished.
Perjury "is the willful act of swearing a false oath or affirmation to tell the truth"

It's been accepted by all sides that it wasn't wilful. There's enough rope to hang him without making stuff up.

So, do you think that he genuinely made a mistake here? I cannot believe that folks are using this as a get out clause. Mistake my arse. And even using it as a mistake, then that doesn't mean he should be free. Plenty of people make/made mistakes in life and still have/had to pay.

What is to stop any perjurer using this as the excuse?

This case should not be finished, and if we have the will and the backbone to do what is right, this man will be ousted from his position. Although, we may have the will and backbone, but they ****ing don't.

walshb

tbh wrote: »

says the court, O'Dea, and Maurice Quinlivan



I don't argue that. But it's ironic that you're telling - telling mind, not asking! - the mods to leave this thread open, when the one thing that will get it closed is you making the claim that he committed perjury. He's not been convicted of that, therefore you can't say it.

but that's just the facts - you rant on dude. you rant on.

The court and Maurice settled the defamation case, that is all. They did not settle the "small" matter of lying under oath. These are distinctly separate issues.

O'Dea is clear regarding damages and payments to Maurice for defamation; he is NOT clear and should not be clear regarding his lying under oath to a High Court.

tbh

walshb wrote: »

So, do you think that he genuinely made a mistake here?

Personally, I find it hard to believe he genuinely forgot. But it's not up to me, it's up to the courts, and they have made their decision. To my mind, saying he didn't say it is the minor issue here. The major issue is the fact that he said it in the first place.

tbh

walshb wrote: »

The court and Maurice settled the defamation case, that is all. They did not settle the "small" matter of lying under oath. These are distinctly separate issues.

O'Dea is clear regarding damages and payments to Maurice for defamation; he is NOT clear and should not be clear regarding his lying under oath to a High Court.

point remains, he hasn't been convicted of perjury.

IrishTonyO

tbh wrote: »

point remains, he hasn't been convicted of perjury.

He hasn't been investigated regarding perjury yet

tbh

IrishTonyO wrote: »

He hasn't been investigated regarding perjury yet

exactly. So you cant call him a perjurer.

IrishTonyO

tbh wrote: »

exactly. So you cant call him a perjurer.

I didn't

tbh

IrishTonyO wrote: »

I didn't

OP did and then op edited. Although I don't think it's been "widely" reported as perjury, for a very good reason. They specifically would NOT call it perjury for the reasons I've been talking about.

I'd like to see some sources for that claim.

IrishTonyO

tbh wrote: »

OP did and then op edited. cool.

but Enda Kenny has

"Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny has accused the Government of 'harbouring a perjurer' on its benches"

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0218/odeaw.html

tbh

IrishTonyO wrote: »

but Enda Kenny has

"Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny has accused the Government of 'harbouring a perjurer' on its benches"

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0218/odeaw.html

cool, thanks.

Raiser

I think Willie O'Dea shot himself in the foot here......



From a Limerick Perspective there is widespread disgust over what has been widely perceived as an invitation for all and sundry to come forth and make a mockery of our Court System

- There's one iconic image in Limerick and beyond of what happens when Criminals learn to abuse our Courts, and go on to enjoy the advantages of getting away with Murder.

Personally speaking, Liam Keane and Willie O'Dea aren't too far apart in my eyes.....

walshb

tbh wrote: »

point remains, he hasn't been convicted of perjury.

I am not arguing that he has; I am simply saying that the matter should not be done and dusted, as many are saying. He needs to be investigated now on the issue concerning his giving false information to a court on a sworn affidavit The DPP and Gardai should be looking into this (false info), and deciding if they can bring this issue to court.

The defamation case is the one that is done and dusted.

Scofflaw

Raiser wrote: »

Mods - Please resist your usual instinct to lock this citing other threads mentioning Willie O'Dea, its a Politics Forum, not the Message Board equivalent of a Clown Car - Sincere thanks

Actually, a Clown Car would work the other way round. However, this thread appears to be about something that has no legal standing, and can't really go anywhere without committing libel...and all the "people say" and "well, it's there in Google" don't seem to me to really change that.

If people feel that they can hold this thread without committing libel, PM me - but I don't want to have to keep watching this thread just in case.

moderately,
Scofflaw