How comfortable are people with meat, really?

Tar.Aldarion

Herbal Deity wrote: »

This.

The assumption that meat eaters are not vegetarians because of not doing research or refusing to think about what it is exactly they are eating is extremely flawed. I don't read this forum much, and I'm not one to mock or question vegetarians, but the last few posts in this thread are elitist and belittling. I'm perfectly aware of the bad conditions in which many animals are farmed in, but animal welfare just isn't an ethical concern of mine.

Everybody is not the same as you, most vegetarians I know are so because of what censorsh!t says and I know of a lot of poeple who do care, but can live with teh guilt, they are still uneasy in conversation about it.

Shenshen

Bonito wrote: »

Defensive? I embrace both meat and veg and even them crumb bum meat substitutes :pac: (yet to try bovril and marmite though)

But as I said above, bean burgers and quorn and stuff are pretty nice but they wouldn't substitute my main meat dish. I can't have a dinner without a good consistancy of a volume of meat on the plate.

TBH I have always wondered how people can go off meat just by seeing where it comes from

Everybody will have slightly different reasons.
Knowing where meat comes from never really bothered me, having spent a good deal of my childhood on a farm and seeing animals being killed for food there.
However, what did sway me was the fact the most meat you get these days does not come from animals who were allowed to live as they did on that farm. It comes from animals whose lives are torture from start to finish, for the sake of cheap meat.
I don't mind killing a chicken, but cramming thousands of them into wire cages on massive factory floors, feeding them rubbish mixed with antibiotics, breeding them so they couldn't walk even if they had the space to... I'm sorry, I just can't take that. And I can't be a part in keeping this machinery going, so I opted out of meat.

The idea that you need meat to make a full meal is a little simplistic. If you want meat in order for you to consider it a full meal, that's ok. But over the years, I've found tons of recipes and ideas for meals that go entirely without meat, and without Quorn as well. When served to meat-eaters, most of them even notice that there is no meat.
The way to go is to not try and reproduce a meat dish without meat, but to make a full dish out of other things.

dermothickey

the why of becoming a vegetarian. For me it was simply because I lived with someone who was a vegetarian, she loved her food and shared her enthusiasm for vegetarianism with me. No other reason, she used to cook the most beautiful food and man I enjoyed it. Another friend of mine was a vegetarian and he used to complain about animal cruelty all the time trying to make me feel guilty about eating meat. I never entertained his criticism, as this was his only reason for not eating meat. 1 annoyed me the other inspired me. So I choose to be inspired by the wonderful variety of foods of being a vegetarian entailed. After a few years I started learning about Yoga and doing meditation this led to a deeper understanding for me.

Bonito

Shenshen wrote: »

Everybody will have slightly different reasons.
Knowing where meat comes from never really bothered me, having spent a good deal of my childhood on a farm and seeing animals being killed for food there.
However, what did sway me was the fact the most meat you get these days does not come from animals who were allowed to live as they did on that farm. It comes from animals whose lives are torture from start to finish, for the sake of cheap meat.
I don't mind killing a chicken, but cramming thousands of them into wire cages on massive factory floors, feeding them rubbish mixed with antibiotics, breeding them so they couldn't walk even if they had the space to... I'm sorry, I just can't take that. And I can't be a part in keeping this machinery going, so I opted out of meat.

The idea that you need meat to make a full meal is a little simplistic. If you want meat in order for you to consider it a full meal, that's ok. But over the years, I've found tons of recipes and ideas for meals that go entirely without meat, and without Quorn as well. When served to meat-eaters, most of them even notice that there is no meat.
The way to go is to not try and reproduce a meat dish without meat, but to make a full dish out of other things.

That's all well and good I have nothing against vegetarians or vegens. I don't see it as a reason to treat them lesser or look down on them in any way. Although some people do, that's not me. If someone has their own reasons as to why they don't eat meat I have much respect for them.

I don't necessarily NEED meat to make a full meal and I'd be far from a simplistic person. I just stick to what I know. If I had the offer of a full meal without meat I would more than gladly give it a try and pretty certain I'd enjoy it but, I wouldn't go about making one myself. I like meat so I cook with it. I also have veg with my meat. There's not a whole deal of foods that I dislike so I would be open to try a new dish anytime I had the opportunity.

If I was making the meal I'd include meat to make it a full meal. Only because I wouldn't know a whole lot of vegetarian dishes. I know some but I wouldn't be up to having them all of the time.

Censorsh!t

Shenshen wrote: »

Everybody will have slightly different reasons.
Knowing where meat comes from never really bothered me, having spent a good deal of my childhood on a farm and seeing animals being killed for food there.
However, what did sway me was the fact the most meat you get these days does not come from animals who were allowed to live as they did on that farm. It comes from animals whose lives are torture from start to finish, for the sake of cheap meat.
I don't mind killing a chicken, but cramming thousands of them into wire cages on massive factory floors, feeding them rubbish mixed with antibiotics, breeding them so they couldn't walk even if they had the space to... I'm sorry, I just can't take that. And I can't be a part in keeping this machinery going, so I opted out of meat.
.

This. I dunno if you could even call a lot of today's animal production 'farming'. It's not about animal husbandry anymore, but about money. I really respect farms that treat their animals well. It's unfortunate that they are declining and being replaced by factory farms.

iUseVi

Censorsh!t wrote: »

This. I dunno if you could even call a lot of today's animal production 'farming'. It's not about animal husbandry anymore, but about money. I really respect farms that treat their animals well. It's unfortunate that they are declining and being replaced by factory farms.

I've been back and forth on this issue myself but is Irish farming that bad though? If I go to my local butchers and buy only locally produced meat, how many of the farms this meat comes from are factory ones?

I grew up on a farm, and all the farmers in the area treated their animals quite well I think, I've seen one or two instances of what could be called factory farming, but nothing as bad as what I've seen on youtube. Just maybe they could have had more space. Most Irish farms are pretty decent, no? I'm open to correction though.

Censorsh!t

iUseVi wrote: »

I've been back and forth on this issue myself but is Irish farming that bad though? If I go to my local butchers and buy only locally produced meat, how many of the farms this meat comes from are factory ones?

I grew up on a farm, and all the farmers in the area treated their animals quite well I think, I've seen one or two instances of what could be called factory farming, but nothing as bad as what I've seen on youtube. Just maybe they could have had more space. Most Irish farms are pretty decent, no? I'm open to correction though.

I'm not too certain really. I did Ag science in school and the methods for raising pigs and chickens that we were taught were the factory farming way. But that's just school...so really dunno!

whirlagigwitch

This would perhaps make people less comfortable with eating meat and with certain farming methods, an interesting abstract.

http://bit.ly/bXv1jj

iUseVi

Anyone else have any info on factory farming in Ireland please? Google is drawing a blank on this for me atm.

EDIT: It seems the UK is pretty bad and the USA is absolutely terrible. But the meat is Irish, but not precisely traced to a specific farm, which is why I'm wondering.

kowloon

You're not going to find too much info easily. One of the industries where bad publicity is just that.

Censorsh!t

http://www.ciwf.ie/

This site may have some info.

It mentions just pigs, chickens(both broiler and laying) and veal.

iUseVi

kowloon wrote: »

You're not going to find too much info easily. One of the industries where bad publicity is just that.

Yeah, I'm really not finding much at all. Either is doesn't exist (unlikely) or its just not being publicised. Although I was kind of expecting animal rights groups to post that sort of info....

Thanks for the link Censorsh!t, but still no real figures for Ireland. Has some stuff on fur farming which I didn't know about. I will continue to look for food farming stuff - I'll post back if I find figures that look half reliable.