Portsmouth seek permission to sell players outside Transfer Window

Iago

Story Here: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11674_5957469,00.html

In brief, Portsmouth are in serious trouble and are believed to have asked permission to cash in on some players now rather than the summer.

Thoughts?

Personally I don't think they'll get permission to do so, no matter what way they go about it some clubs would be unfairly disadvantaged as a result not to mention the precedent set for other teams in other leagues.

I wonder could they agree some type of discount price with the players bought but loaned back to them for the duration of the season...

Mitch Connor

they should sell 'em to Russian sides. Window has not closed for them so they could do that. Just need to get Russian sides interested at the right price.

leninbenjamin

Have they even many players left of value? Wilson and Boateng they might get a few bob for but the rest of them like Utaka, Kanu, Diop wont have much resale value when you factor in the hit Portsmouth will have to take because of their inflated wages. Their best players this season have all been loan signings though, which says a lot about the value of their squad.

Anyway, absolutely no chance should Portsmouth be allowed sell them off before the window opens. It sets a ridiculous precedent if they are allowed.

_blank_

They shouldn't be allowed. Now should they be advanced any money.

This is the exact same as the Cork City sitution here in the LoI.

No club should be helped out, over an above the treatment other clubs get.

Should the FA aslo help other clubs in trouble?

Savman

Looks like they're done for.

Frisbee

Mitch Connor wrote: »

they should sell 'em to Russian sides. Window has not closed for them so they could do that. Just need to get Russian sides interested at the right price.

This.

Or agree loan-to-buy deals with a large percentage of the fee coming up front.

The loan window stays open longer afaik?

Mr Alan

the players would have to want to go to Russia too lads.

premierstone

Mr Alan wrote: »

the players would have to want to go to Russia too lads.

Probably looks alot more enticing than Portsmouth at the moment tbh.

Mezcita

They look doomed. There's no way the Premier League would let them sell players outside the transfer window. FIFA would also have to approve it. Not a chance.

Surely any interested clubs would have picked off their players during the transfer window.

Keano

I hate to see any club go under but plain and simple wind them up.

They are not able to continue as a legitimate business. How many avenues are they going to down before they are told it's over.

Savman

Keano A Legend wrote: »

I hate to see any club go under but plain and simple wind them up.

They are not able to continue as a legitimate business. How many avenues are they going to down before they are told it's over.

While that may be true, Pompey falling would probably see a domino effect. A lot of clubs are facing similar situations, are they just gonna wind them all up to leave us with the mega rich?

If a Premiership club is allowed to fold, in this day and age, it's a sad day for football. IMHO, the league and the association have to be held equally as accountable for allowing shady owners to run a club into the ground, they could have intervened at any time while there was still time to save it.

Hard lessons to be learned here, although I do have a fear this will not be the last of it.

All that said, I do not think they should be allowed to do transfers outside of the window, the PL is a competition at the end of the day and this gives them an unfair advantage. I'd much prefer see them get thru to the summer with some kind of assistance to start again in the Championship.

cson

It's not as earth shattering a predicament as I think you make it out to be Savman. At the end of the day each of the clubs are a business and it's highly likely that one of them is going to become/is insolvent (Portsmouth). Happens every day of the week. Just because the product is football doesn't make it any different - they should be liquidated and dissolved if they can't pay the bills. It will have little effect on the league itself imo - witness how the SPL dealt Gretna a couple of years ago; things continued as normal.

I'd be far more concerned about how Wimbledon morphed into the franchise bastard child that is MK Dons. But that's for another thread.

keane2097

Will four clubs come up or just two go down if they go to the wall?

mayordenis

keane2097 wrote: »

Will four clubs come up or just two go down if they go to the wall?

I would assume that 2 will go down only, actually not sure at all.

keane2097

mayordenis wrote: »

I would assume that 2 will go down only, actually not sure at all.

I'd prefer to see four come up...

Mix it up and stuff!

5starpool

Is this up for decision again tomorrow? Fingers crossed for Pompey.

Paleface

Savman wrote: »

While that may be true, Pompey falling would probably see a domino effect. A lot of clubs are facing similar situations, are they just gonna wind them all up to leave us with the mega rich?

If a Premiership club is allowed to fold, in this day and age, it's a sad day for football. IMHO, the league and the association have to be held equally as accountable for allowing shady owners to run a club into the ground, they could have intervened at any time while there was still time to save it.

Hard lessons to be learned here, although I do have a fear this will not be the last of it.

The mega rich clubs are not really rich either though due to the fact that they are all saddled with large debts. If they were forced to pay those debts off without any outside help they would have to sell all their players aswell.

Football as a business in its current state is just not realistic or viable. Clubs that overspend just to achieve instant success are running a huge risk. Pompey did this and are now suffering the consequences.

I think the problem though really lies with the people running the EPL. They are far more interested in selling the league as the best in the world than they are in how the clubs in that league are financed and run. Also the media has bought into the idea that you have to spend big to be successful and this creates pressure from every clubs fan base to spend money they don't actually have to get better players to compete at this level.

No one knows what's going to happen in the future but no business model can expect to survive borrowing vast amounts of money just to keep up with the competition. Yet they are allowed to do so!

Bukman13

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Have they even many players left of value? Wilson and Boateng they might get a few bob for but the rest of them like Utaka, Kanu, Diop wont have much resale value when you factor in the hit Portsmouth will have to take because of their inflated wages. Their best players this season have all been loan signings though, which says a lot about the value of their squad.

I think the value in selling the players lies in the lower wage bill the club would get. It was recently reported that Utaka is on something like 80,000 a week. (Although later he said he was on 1/3 of that).

Selling players such as Utaka would probably generate a low transfer fee, but it could massively reduce future costs if they sold 3/4 players on high wages.

daosulli

Looks like they are gone, just wondering . . will this be the 1st top flight club in any country that has gone belly up????

Bukman13

daosulli wrote: »

Looks like they are gone, just wondering . . will this be the 1st top flight club in any country that has gone belly up????

No same thing happend in Belgium this year in fact.

Mouscron, had financial problems and were kicked out of the league. All results from their matches were scrapped.

Link to the Table: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Belgian_First_Division#League_table

MementoMori

If Portsmouth do go out of existence tomorrow, which I believe is what will happen, only two teams get relegated. It also means that all Portsmouth's results for the year are scrubbed which would change the table a fair bit. It comes under either rule 27 or 29 of the premier league rules, if anyone wants to track it down.

A lot of people seem to think they can go into administration but from my understanding of it, if the court decide the financial plan they submitted isn't good enough they will be wound up and as of tomorrow cease to exist.

Given they are trying desperate gambles like this (and loooking for an advance on the parachute payments for relegation;which was turned down) I really can't see how the plan the submitted can be good enough. I would rate their chances of being in existence next week at somewhere less than 10%.

Irishcrx

Same thing happened to Wimbledon..

cson

Irishcrx wrote: »

Same thing happened to Wimbledon..

Wrong. They were effectively franchised.

fyi;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimbledon_F.C.

SligoBrewer

daosulli wrote: »

Looks like they are gone, just wondering . . will this be the 1st top flight club in any country that has gone belly up????

I can think of half a dozen examples from Ireland alone.

Tusky

If Portsmouth go kaput, all of their results for the season are null and void arent they ? How would that effect the table ?

That_Guy

keane2097 wrote: »

I'd prefer to see four come up...

Mix it up and stuff!

I'll take that right now.

cson

Tusky wrote: »

If Portsmouth go kaput, all of their results for the season are null and void arent they ? How would that effect the table ?

Not a lot; they've beaten no-one up the top bar Liverpool. A shuffling of the mid table mediocrity. Could be a crucial 3 points back for Liverpool though. And Southampton get into the FA Cup again I'd imagine.

Afaik all their matches are awarded as 3-0 wins to everyone else.

mike65

I presume they'd get fined by the League if they fielded reserves as the first team?

Guy:Incognito

cson wrote: »

Not a lot; they've beaten no-one up the top bar Liverpool. .

Score

Bukman13

Tusky wrote: »

If Portsmouth go kaput, all of their results for the season are null and void arent they ? How would that effect the table ?

Apart from Liverpool gaining 3pts on everyone else. United will lose a GD advantage of 8 goals. Also means rooney could lose 4 goals of his tally.

PHB

The problem isn't so much them selling imo, its others buying. Gives an unfair advantage to those clubs buying.

Then again, anything is better than liquididation

cooker3

cson wrote: »

Afaik all their matches are awarded as 3-0 wins to everyone else.

I'd would have thought whoever Portsmouth get just gets a bye.

If they do go under, imagine what the crazy guy with the bell would do. He'd probably be borderline suicidal.

MementoMori

From the premier league rules.

29. If any Club ceases during the Season to be a member of the League, the record of the League Matches in which it has participated that Season shall be expunged from the table and the number of Clubs to be relegated at the end of that Season shall be reduced so as to maintain at 20 (or, if less, as near thereto as may be) the number of Clubs in membership of the League at the beginning of the next Season.

http://www.premierleague.com/staticFiles/7a/20/0,,12306~139386,00.pdf

cson

It's an interesting one from the perspective of the the most lucrative game in football. Might there be one? Or will it just be the top 2 automatic promotion as per usual>

Mitch Connor

cson wrote: »

It's an interesting one from the perspective of the the most lucrative game in football. Might there be one? Or will it just be the top 2 automatic promotion as per usual>

it says teh number of teams relegated would reduced, the number of teams promoted would remain the same.

Kev_ps3

What happins when a team goes bust? Does it cease to exist altogether or does it go to the conference or what?

Mr Alan

ceases to exist altogether. terrible terrible situation. despite it being good news for Liverpool i really really hope it doesn't happen.

Columbia

Bye Pompey.

Good luck to AFC Portsmouth in the Blue Square.

At least I'll never have to look at that idiot John Westwood and his stupid hat again.

edit: every league from League 1 down would have to promote one extra team also, just realised that.

_blank_

cson wrote: »

Not a lot; they've beaten no-one up the top bar Liverpool. A shuffling of the mid table mediocrity. Could be a crucial 3 points back for Liverpool though. And Southampton get into the FA Cup again I'd imagine.

Afaik all their matches are awarded as 3-0 wins to everyone else.

Your last sentence makes no sense.

All their results are expunged, as if they never existed in the first place.

Nobody is awarded a 3-0 win.

Guy:Incognito

Get yourslef one of these http://www.pfcfinancialservices.co.uk/creditcards/ .How can it fail.:)

I like that they have a whole financial section on their site. Bit rich eh?

Xavi6

Bukman13 wrote: »

Apart from Liverpool gaining 3pts on everyone else. United will lose a GD advantage of 8 goals. Also means rooney could lose 4 goals of his tally.

Never mind that, what about the Fantasy Football points?! :eek:

Helix

pompey wont be allowed to go under til the last ball of the season has been kicked

kryogen

They shouldnt be allowed, and i highly doubt they will be

they shouldnt get any special treatment in fact, sad as it is for Pompey fans


i would hope for fairness sake that the decision to liquidate them is left to the end of the season though, why shoudl other clubs, especially mine have to suffer because of it?

Helix

kryogen wrote: »

They shouldnt be allowed, and i highly doubt they will be

they shouldnt get any special treatment in fact, sad as it is for Pompey fans

they wont get special treatment, theyll get the same treatment any premiership club would be afforded. theyll be kept going til the end of the season, then dropped like a hot snot after theyre relegated and become the football leagues problem rather than the premier leagues

MementoMori

Helix wrote: »

pompey wont be allowed to go under til the last ball of the season has been kicked

kryogen wrote: »

They shouldnt be allowed, and i highly doubt they will be

they shouldnt get any special treatment in fact, sad as it is for Pompey fans

i would hope for fairness sake that the decision to liquidate them is left to the end of the season though, why shoudl other clubs, especially mine have to suffer because of it?

Helix wrote: »

they wont get special treatment, theyll get the same treatment any premiership club would be afforded. theyll be kept going til the end of the season, then dropped like a hot snot after theyre relegated and become the football leagues problem rather than the premier leagues

If the court decides that they are to be liquidated which seems pretty likely from everything I've read and heard that will mean they will no longer be in existence. It won't have anything to do with the football authorities but with the legal authorities.

They have a very very slim hope of going into administration but from everything I've read that will only occur if an investor comes in and pays off all their debts, which are somewhere in the region of £50m+ so I think that falls into the extremely unlikely category.

Helix

MementoMori wrote: »

If the court decides that they are to be liquidated which seems pretty likely from everything I've read and heard that will mean they will no longer be in existence. It won't have anything to do with the football authorities but with the legal authorities.

They have a very very slim hope of going into administration but from everything I've read that will only occur if an investor comes in and pays off all their debts, which are somewhere in the region of £50m+ so I think that falls into the extremely unlikely category.

ill honestly be amazed if the premier league havent got a kitty for this kinda thing. pompey have an £8m tax bill is it? thats what theyre up in court for. if theyre not given that money on the basis that the premier league gets it back by virtue of an auction of their players or something along those lines, and a stay of execution for the business til may, ill eat my hat

the heartache itll cause for the PL really isnt worth the few million to tide things over for 3 months

kryogen

if the courts do rule that they must be liquidated then surely they could appeal this decision? not in the hope of winning, more a stay of execution!

hopefully someone will come along and come up with a payment plan to keep the club alive, but with the debts they have and the limited short-medium term prospects i guess its probably a long shot

Helix

cant see anyone buying them tbh

youd get someone for less, without the financial problems

only hope they have is a lifelong fan with bags of cash, or a consortium of people who have some kind of love/association with the club

MementoMori

Helix wrote: »

ill honestly be amazed if the premier league havent got a kitty for this kinda thing. pompey have an £8m tax bill is it? thats what theyre up in court for. if theyre not given that money on the basis that the premier league gets it back by virtue of an auction of their players or something along those lines, and a stay of execution for the business til may, ill eat my hat

the heartache itll cause for the PL really isnt worth the few million to tide things over for 3 months

Sky has a finance/insolvency expert on last week and he was saying that he strongly expected them to be wound up. They have debts of £50m and very little in the way of assets - the courts are simply looking at it as a business issue. The judge last week said she was very concerned about the club continuing to trade and increase it debts.

Given the league turned down Portsmouth's request last week to pay the parachute payments for relegation early, I severely doubt that the league/FA will do anything. They've already had four different owners this season - can you think of any business that would survive just on the basis of that piece of information alone.

Won't really cause that much heartache apart from to Portsmouth fans.

kryogen wrote: »

if the courts do rule that they must be liquidated then surely they could appeal this decision? not in the hope of winning, more a stay of execution!

hopefully someone will come along and come up with a payment plan to keep the club alive, but with the debts they have and the limited short-medium term prospects i guess its probably a long shot

Can't appeal. This could potentially be all over by the end of the day.

The court is looking at their ability to continue to trade as a going concern.
Unless there is a massive influx of cold hard cash they are going to be wound up.

Helix

MementoMori wrote: »

Won't really cause that much heartache apart from to Portsmouth fans.

if united lose the league by 1 goal on goal difference after having their 5-0 turned into a 3-0 therell be absolute murder

Mitch Connor

Being said in the papers this morning that FIFA will reject the request. However, it is also said that Pompey can sell under some 'club in crisis' rule, which would also see them get a 9 point deduction.

If they then also went into administration, and got a 10 point deduction, they would, after 25 games in the season, be on -3 points.