Nct Fail On Emissions?

emjv1

Hi People, Have no experience posting, just failed nct on emissions with a 97 seat ibiza 1lt, 66,000 on clock. Engine Temp: 90oC High Idle(2830rpm) Lambda: 1.05 (should be between 0.97 and 1.03) CO: 0.77% (above 0.30% fail) HC: 403ppm (above 200ppm fail) Low Idle passed but i have no idea what any of this means and tester wasn't exactly bothered explaining the problem. Anybody had this problem and ideas how to fix with as little expense as possible it would be much appreciated.

pa990

try running the car with a mix of 30% e85, available from maxol

I'm listening

emjv1 wrote: »

Hi People, Have no experience posting, just failed nct on emissions with a 97 seat ibiza 1lt, 66,000 on clock. Engine Temp: 90oC High Idle(2830rpm) Lambda: 1.05 (should be between 0.97 and 1.03) CO: 0.77% (above 30% fail) HC: 403ppm (above 200ppm fail) Low Idle passed but i have no idea what any of this means and tester wasn't exactly bothered explaining the problem. Anybody had this problem and ideas how to fix with as little expense as possible it would be much appreciated.

My car failed on emissions two years ago also, brought it to a Garage and it was sorted for around €70, for this years NCT I bought a type of engine treatment fluid that you mix with the fuel and the car had no problems with emissions this year.

emjv1

Will any old garage do or do they need special equipment? Also the e85 would i just throw a bottle in on top of petrol in tank?

zilog_jones

E85 is 85% ethanol fuel, you get it at the pumps not in a bottle.

itarumaa

HC: 403ppm this value is shockingly bad result, it means that car is running quite rich, because it is not burning the petrol properly.

What is cause for this, hard to say. Have you checked the basic things like sparkplugs or air filter.

I do not think that E85 would help, since the values are quite over the top.

For instance my s40 Volvo (98,2l petrol) had HC 17ppm in similar test.

duffman13

Try get some Dipetane! My car was well out, the father in law gave me a bottle of green stuff called dipetane and hey presto! Make sure ya get the engine nice and warm going in though

I'm listening

duffman13 wrote: »

Try get some Dipetane! My car was well out, the father in law gave me a bottle of green stuff called dipetane and hey presto! Make sure ya get the engine nice and warm going in though

Ya, that's the stuff I got too. Around €14 for a litre bottle. Works for Diesel and petrol

Ush1

itarumaa wrote: »

HC: 403ppm this value is shockingly bad result, it means that car is running quite rich, because it is not burning the petrol properly.

What is cause for this, hard to say. Have you checked the basic things like sparkplugs or air filter.

I do not think that E85 would help, since the values are quite over the top.

For instance my s40 Volvo (98,2l petrol) had HC 17ppm in similar test.

Yep, I recently changed my air filter, done NCT today and was 10ppm at high idle.

emjv1

Ush1 wrote: »

Yep, I recently changed my air filter, done NCT today and was 10ppm at high idle.

Couldnt find dipetane, bought wynns clean burn emissions reducer recommended for nct will this help?
Had no idea what to check or change so would i be able to get and change air filter by myself?

zilog_jones

Air filter is relatively easy to replace, but it sounds like you have a pretty serious emissions problem there. When was the car last serviced?

I'm listening

emjv1 wrote: »

Couldnt find dipetane, bought wynns clean burn emissions reducer recommended for nct will this help?
Had no idea what to check or change so would i be able to get and change air filter by myself?

If I was you, I'd look around at garages for a quote and get the problem sorted properly for around €60-€80. Not a big thing to do.
After that then, buy Dipetane, best out there at the moment I think and use it now and again when filling your car.
For every tenner of petrol you put in you use X amount of the bottle (explained on it), don't use too much as excessive use can be damaging.
Basically buy a bottle use it up over the year and emissions should be grand, it also reduces fuel consumption

emjv1

I'm listening wrote: »

If I was you, I'd look around at garages for a quote and get the problem sorted properly for around €60-€80. Not a big thing to do.
After that then, buy Dipetane, best out there at the moment I think and use it now and again when filling your car.
For every tenner of petrol you put in you use X amount of the bottle (explained on it), don't use too much as excessive use can be damaging.
Basically buy a bottle use it up over the year and emissions should be grand, it also reduces fuel consumption

Where do you buy Dipetane? Thats not a bad price to get it fixed, i just wanted to sound like i knew what the problem was before going as they tend to jack up the price where i'm concerned :P No service history with car, recently bought cheap so could do with a service i'm sure just threw it through the test because it was booked before i bought the car.

zilog_jones

It could cost anything to fix depending on the source of the problem. I'm listening could have had a completely different fault.

As itarumaa said you should start with the simple things like plugs and the air filter. Dirty old oil doesn't help things either.

I'm listening

Yeah Zilog is right, very broad area.
I'm just going on my experience and that of a relative who also failed NCT due to emissions.
Yours might not necessarily be the same.

Hopefully doesn't cost ya that much.

emjv1

I'm listening wrote: »

Yeah Zilog is right, very broad area.
I'm just going on my experience and that of a relative who also failed NCT due to emissions.
Yours might not necessarily be the same.

Hopefully doesn't cost ya that much.

Ok so replace plugs,filter and use dipetane. Will a garage check the emissions before i re test it?

itarumaa

I would change oil and filter as well, specially if oil looks really black. Many of those tasks (air filter, spark plugs) you can do them by yourself, it should not be too hard.

Then I would just drive the car so it would hot enough, use that dipetane and hope for the best:)

emjv1

I'm listening wrote: »

Yeah Zilog is right, very broad area.
I'm just going on my experience and that of a relative who also failed NCT due to emissions.
Yours might not necessarily be the same.

Hopefully doesn't cost ya that much.

Been to 4 different garages and they all contradict each other as to the cause of emissions. One said dipetane wouldnt help, emissions too high. other said a change of filters,oil etc would not make any difference at all. One tried to change the converter without even looking at car and all this has left me more confused than before, god i hate mechanics!

kodak

Similar problem with a friends car except a lot worse,

Idle was CO 2.6 %, meant to below 0.5% or 0.3%
High rev was Co 4.6%, meant to be below 0.5% or 0.3% can't remember

The other ppm was way high too like around 350ppm

Lamda was .83 (too low) 0.97-1.03

99 Ford Fiesta

Any ideas?

biko

Besides using Dipetane/whatnot to add to the fuel it could be worth taking it to a garage and let them have a look. Failing emissions could be a collection of small things; filters, dirty plugs etcetera but also be something more serious that should be addressed rather than the small things. A mechanic would be able to tell you.

You can do all the small things and then have emissions tested again. Galway Car Service have an emissions tester. I haven't been there so can't vouch for work.

emjv1

Magnus wrote: »

Besides using Dipetane/whatnot to add to the fuel it could be worth taking it to a garage and let them have a look. Failing emissions could be a collection of small things; filters, dirty plugs etcetera but also be something more serious that should be addressed rather than the small things. A mechanic would be able to tell you.

You can do all the small things and then have emissions tested again. Galway Car Service have an emissions tester. I haven't been there so can't vouch for work.

The car just had its re-test this morning and everything is worse!!

BEFORE: High Idle(2830rpm) AFTER: High Idle(2820rpm)
Lambda: 1.05 Lambda: 1.07
CO: 0.77% CO: 0.83%
HC: 403ppm HC: 479ppm

Cannot understand how it's so bad. Car has been serviced last week and a broken centre box repaired. Also ran Dipetane through it for the last few days and gave it a really good run to the centre. Has anyone any more ideas of what could cause this in the space of a week? The Nct man said it's running rich and misfiring but that means nothing to me

BrianD3

Not surprising TBH, servicing a car rarely fixes an emissions problem. Also i'm dubious about Dipetaine and other "mechanic in a bottle" quick fixes.

The car needs to be brought to a good mechanic with a gas analyser and good diagnostic skills. The fact that your car has lambda of 1.07 (slightly lean condition) but high CO and HC would probably give an experienced person a good clue straightaway.

You might have a google and find some technical info for yourself eg this page
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3828/is_200509/ai_n15353762/

biko

Does the car smoke a lot? White/blue?
High HC can mean that engine oil is being pushed up past the pistons and will cause the petrol to not ignite properly in the combustion chamber.
High HC = unburned petrol goes out the exhaust.
Make absolutely sure your oil level is at the min mark on the dipstick.

But then would affect low idle more....

mullingar

Your Oxygen Sensor may be gone.

These measure the %oxygen in the exhaust as the % of Oxygen has a direct link with the HC emmissions as the ECU increases/decreases the air/fuel mixture until the oxygen output is correct.

If the sensor is faulty, emissions will be way off.

Edit:
New DIRECT FIT sensor for €34 + postage
http://cgi.ebay.ie/NEW-Direct-fit-Oxygen-Lambda-Sensor-SEAT-IBIZA-mk2-1-0_W0QQitemZ250526316578QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3a54883822

emjv1

mullingar wrote: »

Your Oxygen Sensor may be gone.

These measure the %oxygen in the exhaust as the % of Oxygen has a direct link with the HC emmissions as the ECU increases/decreases the air/fuel mixture until the oxygen output is correct.

If the sensor is faulty, emissions will be way off.

Edit:
New DIRECT FIT sensor for €34 + postage
http://cgi.ebay.ie/NEW-Direct-fit-Oxygen-Lambda-Sensor-SEAT-IBIZA-mk2-1-0_W0QQitemZ250526316578QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3a54883822

Thanks for replys lads,car with mechanic, hopefully will know more soon, thanks for the link, will local garage fit a new sensor if i bought it myself though assuming thats the problem?

emjv1

emjv1 wrote: »

Thanks for replys lads,car with mechanic, hopefully will know more soon, thanks for the link, will local garage fit a new sensor if i bought it myself though assuming thats the problem?

Mechanic says the cat is fecked so have to fork out for a new one and it still might not fix the problem has to be retested before 19th or it goes in for full test again so i hope it fixes the emissions :mad:
Also he said the HC's were not helped considering the gob****e at AdvancePitstop overfilled the oil ffs!!

mullingar

Cats can be big money and would be the last thing I would change.

First check air filter then check colour / condition of spark plug. And replace if damaged or worn

retest car.

If it fails then change oxygen sensor as result indicates rich mixture

Retest car ( yes is e30 but cheaper than a cat)

failing that replace cat

retest

BrianD3

Cats can be big money and would be the last thing I would change.

First check air filter then check colour / condition of spark plug. And replace if damaged or worn

retest car.

If it fails then change oxygen sensor as result indicates rich mixture

Retest car ( yes is e30 but cheaper than a cat)

failing that replace cat

retest

Would it not be a better idea to try to find someone who actually knows how to diagnose a car instead of using the "replace parts and see what happens" method. It sounds like the OPs mechanic is using this bolt on diagnostics method - he'll replace the cat - but doesn't know if it's going to work. I wonder does he even have a gas analyser or is he just hoping for the best when the car goes in for its NCT. Maybe he's a "Fred in a Shed" type operation.

The OP has already wasted his time with Dipetaine and changing the air filter. It was entirely predictable that Dipetaine would be useless for a car with such high emissions. Yet he was still advised to use it.

emjv1

BrianD3 wrote: »

Would it not be a better idea to try to find someone who actually knows how to diagnose a car instead of using the "replace parts and see what happens" method. It sounds like the OPs mechanic is using this bolt on diagnostics method - he'll replace the cat - but doesn't know if it's going to work. I wonder does he even have a gas analyser or is he just hoping for the best when the car goes in for its NCT. Maybe he's a "Fred in a Shed" type operation.

The OP has already wasted his time with Dipetaine and changing the air filter. It was entirely predictable that Dipetaine would be useless for a car with such high emissions. Yet he was still advised to use it.

I was told by someone on here to use dipetane and the car just had service last week so plugs, oil , filters etc have been changed already.Mechanic has gas analyser, was shown results after he done them himself and he's someone i know so i'm not worried about a 'fred in a shed' scenario His results were actually worse than Nct centre as he says his equipment is far more thorough than theirs?. I asked him about the lambda being changed and he said that it's not going to fix the issue and i'd have to spend money on a cat after that anyway.

samih

New cat won't fix the lambda value. *That* will be waste of money. Take it somewhere that knows what they are doing.

emjv1

samih wrote: »

New cat won't fix the lambda value. *That* will be waste of money. Take it somewhere that knows what they are doing.

Should have mentioned he also found a hole in the exhaust tract which i believe can cause the lambda values i got.