HAND CONDITIONING

corkma

Discuss

Jason McCabe

I would say it leads to some serious issues in old age. Arthiritis being a major one.

Where possible outside of competition it is better to hit with the palm or open hand IMO. Far too easy to break bones in the hand.

Khannie

What is hand conditioning?

Jason McCabe

I presumed he was talking about punching board to deaded the nerve endings in the hand

Or the old practice of punching hot sand

Khannie

Sounds like a recipe for pain in later life to me.

arybvtcw0eolkf

corkma wrote: »

Discuss

A picture says a thousend words.



:pac:

mark.leonard

If I could go back in time and talk sense into 17 year old me, one of the many things I would change, apart from not scoring a certain someone who may or may not have been going with a mate of mine, would be to never have done destruction (board breaking) in Taekwondo. I have quite a solid set of knuckles from it, but it makes no difference to me in competition, and the relevance to any street fighting is dubious at best, if my hand was going to break before I conditioned my knuckles it will still break now after years of it.

What I also have because of it is -
all the shields on my knuckles are broken
grossly oversized knuckles in the forefist, which killed my Hand Modelling career dead in its tracks,
and a fast track for arthritis in the hands, which may potentially derail any attempt at taking Gold in the "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 7" Masters Division.
and lastly - currently I can't play on Hard on Guitar Hero for any length of time as the track for my tendon on the knuckle of my little finger has broken down so much that the knuckle locks out half way though the second solo in "Human" by the Killers, so I have to assume the the degradation in my manual dexterity will continue until my grand children will wind up doing all my knitting for me.

In short, back when people knew less than we do now, being able to break stuff with your hand was a good idea, because they largely DIED before arthritis set in. These days it makes no sense whatsoever.

Avoid hand conditioning, avoid it good.

Jason McCabe

Another point.

I remember years ago when I was about 9 and had seen Enter the Dragon I of course went to the local Karate club. Ready to kick some ass.

There was an instuctor called Karate Joe. He was a tough MOFO, real old school. I remember him making me sit in the lotus position and then standing on my knees to "stretch" me out.

I walked like John Wayne for weeks after and did not go back.


So I don't agree with conditioing, nor do I agree with ur legs being ripped apart to improve ur kicks

Niall Keane

So I don't agree with conditioing

depends on the conditioning?

For example we do 2 minute handstands on our fists to strengthen them and the wrists mainly I guess, so you can mix different punches without relying on wraps, and Tai Chi Chuan is known to help prevent arthritis.

Tim_Murphy

Niall Keane wrote: »

Tai Chi Chuan is known to help prevent arthritis.

Hi Niall,

Just out of interest, what sources do you have for this?

Boston

Jason McCabe wrote: »

Another point.

I remember years ago when I was about 9 and had seen Enter the Dragon I of course went to the local Karate club. Ready to kick some ass.

There was an instuctor called Karate Joe. He was a tough MOFO, real old school. I remember him making me sit in the lotus position and then standing on my knees to "stretch" me out.

I walked like John Wayne for weeks after and did not go back.


So I don't agree with conditioing, nor do I agree with ur legs being ripped apart to improve ur kicks

Well, all muscle growth is as a result of ripping apart old existing muscle. I'm not saying what yer man did was a good idea. Just that, thats part of being an athlete at any level.

Niall Keane wrote: »

depends on the conditioning?

For example we do 2 minute handstands on our fists to strengthen them and the wrists mainly I guess, so you can mix different punches without relying on wraps, and Tai Chi Chuan is known to help prevent arthritis.

Massive difference between the damage done through impact and that what youd discribe. You could do handstands with your fists are you life and not do the same amouth of damage to them one serious strike to a solid surface will.

Doug Cartel

Boston wrote: »

Well, all muscle growth is as a result of ripping apart old existing muscle. I'm not saying what yer man did was a good idea. Just that, thats part of being an athlete at any level.

I'm probably being pedantic here, but the extent you can stretch is controlled more by your nervous system than the physical length of your muscles.

Massive difference between the damage done through impact and that what youd discribe. You could do handstands with your fists are you life and not do the same amouth of damage to them one serious strike to a solid surface will.

I would imagine that it strengthens the bones through Wolff's law, which AFAIK, applies to load bearing stress on the bones, not impact stress. I'm not so sure that doing the hand-stands on your fists is any better than regular handstands though.

Boston

Doug Cartel wrote: »

I'm probably being pedantic here, but the extent you can stretch is controlled more by your nervous system than the physical length of your muscles.



I would imagine that it strengthens the bones through Wolff's law, which AFAIK, applies to load bearing stress on the bones, not impact stress. I'm not so sure that doing the hand-stands on your fists is any better than regular handstands though.

Yes, were as impact conditioning is all about creating fractures which are then filled in with more bond.

Niall Keane

Massive difference between the damage done through impact and that what youd discribe. You could do handstands with your fists are you life and not do the same amouth of damage to them one serious strike to a solid surface will.

that's my point, conditioning persay is not bad it depends on what type of conditioning?

Niall Keane

Originally Posted by Niall Keane
Tai Chi Chuan is known to help prevent arthritis.

Hi Niall,

Just out of interest, what sources do you have for this?

Point taken and apologies Tim, there seem to be a number of studies of questionable quality all over google, it's not an area that holds particular interest to me currently, but to answer your questions on my sources: "They" have told me on many occasions, via persistant spam that turns up on my email account from previously unknown "Fellow Tai Chi Practitioners" it should be mentioned however that "They" also have a habit of telling me what I do isn't Tai Chi and that "They" have a habit of wearing multicolours, smoking splifs, and escaping reality as often as possible. (I think "They" have infact taken up residence offshore only returning to reality infrequently and under duress?)
Once again apologies, I only meant to offer an alternative "gentler" method of conditioning the hands that wouldn't result in deformity.

Dave Joyce

The problem with a lot of systems is that they just jump in and start hitting boards etc. In Chinese systems, if you want to go through hand conditioning there are a serious of levels to go through (and you strictly adhere to the amount of time that should be spent on each level) which MUST done in conjunction with using Chinese herbs to aid healing after each session.

I can't remember the full details but you start with fine soft sand, then progress onto courser sand, then move onto light gravel and basically you end up with iron filllings which are heated. It takes constant practise and can take a long time and the last few levels (of 12 I think) will render you impotent, which I suppose is why there were so many monks in those days.

Just out of interest, what sources do you have for this?

I'd say its a waste of time even linking this but I know of relatives that used some of the suggestions from the book and it certainly relived their pain and my sister who is a qualified acupuncturist found the Taiji balls were excellant for arthritis

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing/books/qigong/arthritis_relief

Tim_Murphy

Niall Keane wrote: »

Point taken and apologies Tim, there seem to be a number of studies of questionable quality all over google, it's not an area that holds particular interest to me currently, but to answer your questions on my sources: "They" have told me on many occasions, via persistant spam that turns up on my email account from previously unknown "Fellow Tai Chi Practitioners" it should be mentioned however that "They" also have a habit of telling me what I do isn't Tai Chi and that "They" have a habit of wearing multicolours, smoking splifs, and escaping reality as often as possible. (I think "They" have infact taken up residence offshore only returning to reality infrequently and under duress?)
Once again apologies, I only meant to offer an alternative "gentler" method of conditioning the hands that wouldn't result in deformity.

Thanks for the reply Niall. In this case I'll take the claim with a pinch of salt.

I'd say its a waste of time even linking this but I know of relatives that used some of the suggestions from the book and it certainly relived their pain and my sister who is a qualified acupuncturist found the Taiji balls were excellant for arthritis

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing/books...thritis_relief

Thanks for the link. It would be interesting to see if there was any proper studies done to show the effectiveness or otherwise of this stuff on arthritis.

Haven't broken any boards in years so hopefully I won't ever have to worry about it!

Niall Keane

"They" tell me that you sholud avoid salt Tim!

Tim_Murphy

Niall Keane wrote: »

"They" tell me that you sholud avoid salt Tim!

LOL, sounds like they know what they are talking about!

Boston

Niall Keane wrote: »

that's my point, conditioning persay is not bad it depends on what type of conditioning?

Yea, I agree with you.

smlballjunkie

I do Conditioning on both hands and arms and shins, have done for the past 8 years, my Sifu has been doing same for 30 years and obviously my SiGung for a lot longer than that, with no discernible ill effects.
We do not do it to break boards or anything else, it is part of our style of Kung Fu, however if I do conditioning on my hands or arms for 15 minutes, I then also use Dit Da Jow or Chinese Healing Medicine for the same length of time.
Whatever you may think of Chinese Medicine, I certainly have no issue with it.
I believe it is important to start conditioning very easily and at a slow pace and build up over time, deliberately breaking bones, knuckles etc is totally different to building up hardness over time.