30 DC fast-charging points will be located on motorways by end 2011

tech69

I still totally agree with tech2. I do need to contribute more. Tech2 is a legend

dynamick

Victor wrote: »

I'm not convinced about conventionally-sized electric cars - they do nothing to prevent congestion and mostly swop one pollution for another.

There are some advantages:

• Lower CO2 emissions
• Electric cars capable of running on renewable energy
• The CO2 and other pollutants caused by generating electricity for these cars is released far from population centres, so there is less damage to human health.
• Electric cars reduce noise pollution in cities.

And there are environmental disadvantages:

• Pollutants and resource use from production of batteries
• Silent vehicles endanger pedestrians

Road congestion is a form of road pricing (you pay with time rather than money) and is sadly necessary for public transport to be attractive. Solving congestion is the fake aim of public transport projects but in reality we need congestion or road pricing to make public transport succeed.

Tech3

SpongeBob posted up a map of the fast charging points over on C&T.




Knowing that that an electric car needs to be charged just over 150km then why have the NRA/ESB located these on longer distance locations instead of the commuter routes where they would be more beneficial. From what I see it is a poor selection. Here is some that should be included:

Galway

• Tuam

Limerick

• Ennis
• Newcastle West

Cork

• Mallow

And now it has been revealed that you will have to pay to rent the battery for the year all for the cost of a mere €1,200

MOTORISTS who want to 'go green' by buying an electric car will have to pay €1,200 a year to rent the battery.

French motoring giant Renault admitted yesterday that the battery would not be included in the price of four electric vehicles (EVs) which will go on sale from next year.

Link

Sponge Bob

That muppet Eamon Ryan rolled up every announcement made since last year, including his own, and reannounced the lot again.

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/ELECTRIC+CARS+A+REALITY+FOR+IRELAND.htm

Never once mentioned the €1200 a year battery rental the slimy green toad. He is even worse than Demspey, that fella

dynamick

Indo wrote:

MOTORISTS who want to 'go green' by buying an electric car will have to pay €1,200 a year to rent the battery.

This is just one manufacturer's policy for one model: the Nissan Leaf. Other companies sell the batteries with the car. From what I can see, the cheapest electric car will now cost 6500 euro new.

Chris_5339762

Who drew that map . The M17/18 service station that got refused by ABP is still shown.

Sponge Bob

The ESB, the charger is in Galway itself at the substation in Ballybrit ...not at the MSA.

Roryhy

Nuttzz

I give these charging stations 3 weeks before the first one is vandalised.

Thats going to be a big problem i think, you get to a charge point and some fecker has wrecked it, or driven off still attached ala F1 drivers leaving a pit stop with the hose attached

serfboard

Nuttzz wrote: »

I give these charging stations 3 weeks before the first one is vandalised.

Well, they said that about DublinBikes too and AFAIK that hasn't happened.

Nuttzz wrote: »

Thats going to be a big problem i think, you get to a charge point and some fecker has wrecked it

There's an unmanned diesel station not too far from where I live, and no fecker has wrecked it. It's very useful for re-filling any time, 24/7. It only takes cards so there's no cash around.

Nuttzz wrote: »

or driven off still attached ala F1 drivers leaving a pit stop with the hose attached

Well, people could drive off from their own houses too with the leads attached :eek:

I think this would be solved by having something in the car that doesn't allow this to happen.

Nuttzz

We'll have to wait & see

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/free-bikes-scheme-is-hit-by-vandals--after-just-one-day-1885887.html

serfboard

Indeed. Although I'd rather take a more recent users viewpoint, than a journalists one written just one day after it went into operation.

Nuttzz

2 park benches were burn it in a local park here over the weekend, theres enough numbskulls out there, its going to be down to location really, I cant see the petrol stations going for it, but the points based in the stations would probably be the safest location

Any idea on the number of points that will be available at each location? I'd would be a bit of a bummer if you were on the road to cork from dublin and needed a charge on the way down but had to wait for up to 30 mins while the cars in front where charged, could add an extra hour on to a trip.

Tech3

Recent article on the charging points which will be introduced this year:

THE ESB promises to increase the number of public on-street electric car charging posts 10-fold in the first quarter of 2011, as they prepare to roll-out infrastructure which will allow for the introduction of mass-produced electric vehicles to the State.

There are currently 25 public and 30 domestic charging points in place, but this will increase to 250 public and 300 domestic charging units by the end of March. This is set to increase to 1,500 on-street and 2,000 domestic charging units by the end of the year. This is according to Paul Mulvaney, the managing director of ESB’s ecars.

The coming weeks will also see the introduction of the first fast-charging units, which are likely to be placed at service stations on main routes. By the end of 2011, there will be 40 such fast-charging units in place. “We are testing various equipment at the moment, with a view to going to tender at the end of January to purchase 1,500 points or 750 dual-headed posts and we have started to install domestic ones already,” says Mulvaney.

The ESB have signed a number of agreements with car firms in order to ensure that there will be an adequate supply of electric cars for customers, but with that in place there is now more work needed to ensure that everything works properly.

“Our part of the job now is to install the infrastructure and also design all the market systems so that when people are charging their cars that a single access card will be able to access any of the different charge points with the idea being that you buy some credit – maybe €20 or €30 – you have a card and swipe the card at the charge point and your account will be debited by whatever amount it used.”

The average cost to charge a family-sized electric vehicle is likely to be around €2 when charged at home on a night rate, while charging on the street will cost about twice as much during the day. In the second phase, users will be able to use the on-street facilities and be billed by whoever their electric provider is.

“Any supplier can supply electricity to any driver, it is not an ESB system – it is an electricity supply system,” adds Mulvaney. On-street electricity is currently free of charge at the public charge points and this will remain that way until the ESB have all of their IT systems developed. “Our target is to have the IT systems in place by the middle of 2011.”

While the placing of 1,500 public charging points by the end of the year might seem excessive, Mulvaney explains that this infrastructure is designed to be capable of handing increased sales of electric cars. “Our target by the end of quarter four is to have the whole system up and running. We plan to have 2,000 electric cars by the end of 2011 and 6,000 electric cars by the end of 2012 and the same infrastructure will probably be enough until about 2016 although we will continue to develop the IT systems.”

With customers of the Nissan Leaf likely to be taking delivery of their cars in the first week of March, we won’t have to wait long to see if the ESB can deliver on their promises

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2011/0112/1224287319422.html

GizAGoOfYerGee

Nuttzz wrote: »

you get to a charge point and some fecker has wrecked it, or driven off still attached ala F1 drivers leaving a pit stop with the hose attached

The EV won't go into gear if it's still attached to the charge point.

dynamick

Sponge Bob wrote: »

That muppet Eamon Ryan rolled up every announcement made since last year, including his own, and reannounced the lot again.

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/ELECTRIC+CARS+A+REALITY+FOR+IRELAND.htm

Never once mentioned the €1200 a year battery rental the slimy green toad. He is even worse than Demspey, that fella

Nissan has decided to sell the battery with the car rather than lease it.

The reva doesn't qualify for the ev grant because it is technically a quadricycle.

ei.sdraob

The only charging point I know of in Galway (woodquay) always has one of the residents (rather nice) car parked on the spot. always.
Good luck using that point so...

KevR

ei.sdraob wrote: »

The only charging point I know of in Galway (woodquay) always has one of the residents (rather nice) car parked on the spot. always.
Good luck using that point so...

Noticed that as well, it would be funny if it wasn't true!

dynamick

ei.sdraob wrote: »

The only charging point I know of in Galway (woodquay) always has one of the residents (rather nice) car parked on the spot. always.
Good luck using that point so...

This is a problem because there is no legislation to provide for parking spaces marked out for vehicle charging.

The next two years is a field trial of electric vehicles in Ireland whose aim is to uncover this kind of problem.

GizAGoOfYerGee

ei.sdraob wrote: »

The only charging point I know of in Galway (woodquay) always has one of the residents (rather nice) car parked on the spot. always.
Good luck using that point so...

These EV charging points will be useless once/if EVs take off.

We will need EV car parks, each space with passive charging points - no plugging in cables, no swiping cards. The EV points will check your car's credit account and charge accordingly.

As technology improves, it will take a few seconds to recharge a battery, and EVs will have 10-fold milage on any petrol engine.

20 years, maybe?

The technolgy should have been here a long time ago but for the feckin oil companies!

Aidan1

Never once mentioned the €1200 a year battery rental the slimy green toad

Incorrect. Nissan will sell you the whole lot. Renault are working on a lease model , but their first car won't be here until 2012. I gather they're talking about a rate of less than €80 per month for the battery, which is a lot less than €1200, but the car itself will cost less than the diesel one, so the overall cost of ownership will be similar. Basically they're trying to avoid 'sticker shock', which is fine, consumers will be able to make up their own minds.

Looking at the rest of the market, volumes of cars sold are likely to be very low until 2013 at the earliest. There will be a limited number of manufacturers in the space until then, and the technology is evolving very quickly (Infiniti will be bringing a version of the LEAF to market in 2012 with 250km range - all down to a new battery). By end 2013, it looks like Toyota, Nissan, Ford, VAG, BMW (or a subset thereof), Mercedes, Peugeot, Citroen, Renault, Mitsubishi, SAAB (if they're still around) will all have full BEVs available (Every manufacturer will be in the hybrid game by then). It'll be the second half of the decade before there are real mass volume sales.

dynamick

what is incorrect?

Aidan1

Nothing. Now that I fixed it.:eek:

Chris_5339762

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Electric vehicles wont be popular enough until you can get the same milage out of a charge as you do out of a tank of petrol, and the recharge process takes the same length of time as filling your car with petrol.

dynamick

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Electric vehicles wont be popular enough until you can get the same milage out of a charge as you do out of a tank of petrol, and the recharge process takes the same length of time as filling your car with petrol.

I think even half the range of a petrol car will do: say 250km.

The recharge process would be OK if it was 15 minutes and if it was done in a petrol station (would this be safe?) as you could get a coffee. Youonly need enough to get home and recharge for the night.

The price is still a big factor: the total cost of ownership includes fuel costs and service charges which are lower for an EV but this is a difficult sell.

Pete_Cavan

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Electric vehicles wont be popular enough until you can get the same milage out of a charge as you do out of a tank of petrol, and the recharge process takes the same length of time as filling your car with petrol.

I too am sceptical about electric vehicles. I posted the following in a thread in another forum. I didnt get much of a response but the infrastructure forum seems to be frequented by more intelligent people so would be interested to see what you guys think. NOTE: I am not saying electric cars will never work and I am just asking the question, but would this be a better option for this country economically?

I very much doubt electric cars will catch on any time soon. Battery technology has developed very slowly and batteries use rare earth metals which have a limited supply and are becoming very expensive because China has most of the planets reserves of these and wants to keep them for her own production. Also energy supplies are becoming a worry for most countries and unless nuclear fusion is cracked soon I dont think the world would be able to produce enough electricity to power everything it is all ready powering plus emerging economies plus all the energy that would be needed to run all the electric cars. Certainly Ireland would not be able to produce enough energy to power her economy if all the cars here also relied on the national grid.

Despite all the advances in technology that have been seen in the past 150 years, all modern cars still use the basic principle of the internal combustion engine, first developed in the mid 1800's, to propel them. Why has this, fairly simple technology, survived so long in the face of huge scientific breakthroughs? Answer: because it is the best. I believe the next generation of cars will continue to use this principle, but will be powered by biofuels. This should certainly be the case for Ireland and we should get ahead of the pack now, even if the rest of the world doesnt follow.

Ireland has a long tradition of agriculture and we continue to rank among the top countries in the world in terms of agriculture. It makes sense for us to exploit this and grow our own fuel. We could be self-sufficient in this respect. It does not need to take land from food production because the bio-crops could be genetically modified to grow anywhere we cant grow food (people dont like eating GM foods but your car wont mind). We also spent a lot on farm subsidies, growing fuel would see unproductive farms become productive and they would not have to rely on subsidies, saving the government a fortune. Electric cars would be produced oversees where manufacturing costs are lower and it is likely we would have to import some of the electricity needed because we would not be able to produce enough ourselves.

It would be a lot cheaper to set up than electric cars, we have all the petrol stations, pumps, etc. in place already, just fill the tanks with bio-diesel instead of normal diesel. The infrastructure for electric cars would cost a fortune, we would have to build many new power stations in order to produce the energy as well as a network of high capacity power lines covering the entire country. I have no idea how much extra electrictiy we would need but when you think of all the cars on our roads and imagine all of these charging at the mains, Im sure you would easily double our energy demand.

Even if the rest of the world goes down the electric car route, this island could use biofuels with no ill effects on our economy. Irish hauliers could use electric vehicles for travelling overseas and we just need to have charge points at service stations for them. This would also accommodate hauliers driving from the continent as well as tourists coming here. This would be possible because with only HGVs and a few tourist cars recharging their batteries it is not putting a huge strain on our energy production. Most of these would charge up at night to avail of cheap energy when demand is low meaning we dont need to increase energy production capacity.

We could create many jobs in the agriculture sector growing the crops, technical jobs processing the crop into fuel, as well as jobs in distributing and selling the final product. If everyone else was using electric cars it may be even better for us because then we could produce the engines for the cars here as we would have no rivals (just buy in chassis etc. for electric cars from abroad and install Irish made engines). This gives us an entirely new indigenous industry in a sector where we are already strong and we would not have to fear competition from abroad.

Energy costs are going to continue to rise and the added pressure of powering every car on the planet would push the costs up further. Even if the cost per driving 1km in an electric car is less than driving 1km in a biofuel car, it would still be a better option for this country because all the money would be staying in the country. The fuel is produced here with no reliance on imports and everyone employed producing the fuel spends there money here so more money circulating in our economy, not leaving the country. If needed the government could charge 0% tax on Irish produced biodiesel to make it cheaper. It would be worth it because it would be employing many thousands of people and all the money is staying in the country so they will receive more tax indirectly than by direct taxes on a product produced abroad.

ei.sdraob

Genetically engineered biocrops :eek: unfortunately @PC the greens want Ireland to be GM free

p.s: good post, agree

Carawaystick

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

As technology improves, it will take a few seconds to recharge a battery, and EVs will have 10-fold milage on any petrol engine.

I doubt there will be any method available to transfer the amount of electrical energy to a battery in `a few seconds' ever.

A tank of petrol (35MJ per litre, 50 l) has 1.75e9 Joules. Assuming an electric car can use a fifth the energy that's 350e6 joules, or 90+ kWh


Say an electric car uses 5kW(which is a low number), for 5 hours range that's 25kWh, or 1500kW-Min. To charge that in 1 minute would need, for a battery has a hundred volts fully charged, would need 1.5kA flowing, which is a ludicrous amount of current to be dealing with.

Roryhy

I would think swapping your depleted battery for a fully charged one is a more realistic idea, this could be done relatively quickly anyway. I didn't think of this, i came across plans not so long ago for an automated battery change system.

dynamick

Carawaystick wrote: »

Say an electric car uses 5kW(which is a low number), for 5 hours range that's 25kWh, or 1500kW-Min. To charge that in 1 minute would need, for a battery has a hundred volts fully charged, would need 1.5kA flowing, which is a ludicrous amount of current to be dealing with.

Could you charge each cell in parallel? Ech cell would have its own contact in the charging connector. That would divide the current between n cells.

There is a battery swapping project for electric taxis in Tokyo. Takes 60 seconds to swap a battery

http://www.betterplace.com/tokyo-electric-taxi-project-summary?awesm=btrp.lc_fVl&utm_content=awesm-site&utm_medium=btrp.lc-copypaste&utm_source=betterplace.com