A4 Vs IS220d Vs Passat

spartacus93

Hey

Just looking for peoples opinions on these 3 cars

08 Passat

07 Lexus IS220d

06 Audi A4 S-Line

It's time for the father to change and we have narrowed it down to these 3, but are open to suggestions. Unfortunately he is limited to buying only off Sheehy Motors so he's not completely free to pick and chose.

He currently drives an Audi A4 1.9TDi 130 Bhp and loves it. He has a new home for this already so it will be a cash deal. No trade in.

His requirements are a 4 door medium sized, rear leg room isn't a big issue anymore, but he would like to be able to carry 4 adults comfortably occasionally.
Has to be diesel with at least high 40s mpg
Has to be reasonably nippy (he's happy with the power in his current Audi, but had a 1.6 passat that he felt was very under powered)

Any thoughts or opinions on the above 3 cars would be great, he hasn't driven the Lexus yet but hopes to do so this weekend.

Thanks

R.O.R

Out of those 3, the Lexus.

The Passat is way overpriced and has the 1.9Tdi. I'm not sure what makes that Audi and S-Line. Those are the crappy wheels from the base model and it doesn't even have sports seats - keep fit windows in the back make that a definite no no for me.

-Corkie-

He is fairly dear for a start. I had the 1.9 passat and its sluggish and noisy. You have to rev it to get it to go. Audi is way overpriced as well. Lexus is nice allrite. Allthough the audi is 140 bhp which will cater for most overtaking situations

mickdw

Lexus all day long for me although 08 would be better for the lower tax. not alot of difference though I think
Anywhere over 20k, I would be looking for 08 only tbh.

Stevie Dakota

Lexus would suit him well by the sounds of it, make sure he takes a 24 hour test drive though, not everyone gets on with the cars gearing and the boot is very small.

JHMEG

The VAG diesels are primitive. The Lexus isn't a quantum leap either. There are better diesels than both of those on the market.

maddness

Lexus. No contest.

bazz26

The rear wind up windows are comical in the Audi, typical "premium" Irish spec so I would avoid.

The 1.9 TDi in the Passat is a non runner for me too.

That leaves the IS220d, engine is a bit unrefined for this class of car and gearing is very odd unless you go for the Sport model, also being a 07 the motor tax is a pain. Spec is good though and probably the best of this bunch.

sundodger5

high 40s mpg is not acheivable in the lexus, not sure about the others. i have an 09 which gives around 8L/100kms average according to the trip.

spids

audi man myself

uncle-mofo

My Father drives an 07 220d, fine car except for the clutch going after 2000 miles which was replaced within 48 hours with the Lexus warranty (not sure if this was my fathers dodgy driving or not). There's very little room in the back, me being 6'4 can't go more than 5 minutes there without my legs going into spasm. Other than that it's a fine car and drives really nice.

spartacus93

R.O.R wrote: »

Out of those 3, the Lexus.

The Passat is way overpriced and has the 1.9Tdi. I'm not sure what makes that Audi and S-Line. Those are the crappy wheels from the base model and it doesn't even have sports seats - keep fit windows in the back make that a definite no no for me.

Thanks for that. Not impressed by any of their A4s really, going up tomorrow for a better look. I think they 105 Bhp in that passat would make it a non runner.

He'd be happier with the Lexus or the A4, but it's hard to ignore the Passat when he would get a 08 for 06 A4 money (ish!)

mickdw wrote: »

Lexus all day long for me although 08 would be better for the lower tax. not alot of difference though I think
Anywhere over 20k, I would be looking for 08 only tbh.

A 08 model has €302 Tax, 07 will be €860 :eek:

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Lexus would suit him well by the sounds of it, make sure he takes a 24 hour test drive though, not everyone gets on with the cars gearing and the boot is very small.

Cheers, wasn't aware of the gears being an issue, thanks for pointing that out.

JHMEG wrote: »

The VAG diesels are primitive. The Lexus isn't a quantum leap either. There are better diesels than both of those on the market.

I know the 1.9 Tdi VAG block has a bad name for itself. Is the 2.0 Tdi much better? Please make a few suggestions of what you think would be better!

bazz26 wrote: »

The rear wind up windows are comical in the Audi, typical "premium" Irish spec so I would avoid.

The 1.9 TDi in the Passat is a non runner for me too.

That leaves the IS220d, engine is a bit unrefined for this class of car and gearing is very odd unless you go for the Sport model, also being a 07 the motor tax is a pain. Spec is good though and probably the best of this bunch.

Yeah, as I said not hugely impressed by their range of A4's, hopefully they'll have a few nice ones tomorrow.

Passat wouldn't be the first choice, but as I said above, it's hard to ignore getting a 08 passat for 06 audi money.

I think the Lexus is the best of the bunch, but maybe we just don't have the best bunch!

sundodger5 wrote: »

high 40s mpg is not acheivable in the lexus, not sure about the others. i have an 09 which gives around 8L/100kms average according to the trip.

Cheers, the official figure is 6.1 L / 100kms which is 45 mpg. He'll have to take it for an extended test drive to see how easy it is to get close to that.

Thanks for all the replies lads, some interesting points to consider.

bazz26

The 1.9 TDi doesn't have a bad reputation, it is just an old engine originating back to the begining of the 1990s. These days it is unrefined, noisy, has a very narrow power band and not particularly quick despite what some of the fans say. On the plus side it is tried and tested technology, doesn't have fancy common rail injectors or dual mass flywheels which fail regularly on modern day diesel engines. Given the choice though I would still pass on it.

If you do not need alot of space would your father consider a Volvo S40 2.0d? The SE spec is pretty decent which includes, climate control, leather seats, cd changer, etc. The 2.0d is a Peugeot/Citroen Hdi unit with 136bhp. For the same prices as those 3 you would probably be looking at a 2008 on the new tax system. Down sides are that rear leg room is a bit tight and access to the boot is narrow being based on the Ford Focus. Volvo parts and servicing are also on the expensive side.

JHMEG

spartacus93 wrote: »

Please make a few suggestions of what you think would be better!

I think the class leaders are BMW (eg 320D) and Honda (eg Accord 2.2). (BMWs had a propensity for blowing turbos tho, dunno if that's still the case)

Speculator

Audi wins hands down!!!!!!!!!!!

Dont know why you have the passat in this catergory?

pburns

JHMEG wrote: »

I think the class leaders are BMW (eg 320D) and Honda (eg Accord 2.2). (BMWs had a propensity for blowing turbos tho, dunno if that's still the case)

+1
You're leaving out the best cars in this sector.

Something like this far better in every way to the cars you mention:
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201004196720965

If you can find a 08 Legacy diesel it might also be worth considering, might be a bit above the budget

JHMEG

Speculator wrote: »

Audi wins hands down!!!!!!!!!!!

The Audi has manual windows and nylon seats. Where else have corners been cut? This was supposed to be a premium brand car.

-Corkie-

That black honda is a fine car. If you were to get the 2.0 tdi passat it would be seriously worth considering, as i said above 1.9 is slow and noisy. The passat has a huge boot and fine leg/head room.

R.O.R

Speculator wrote: »

Audi wins if you want to use your hands to wind the windows down!!!!!!!!!!!

FYP

pburns

R.O.R wrote: »

FYP

Windy-down windows are the least of the Audi's drawbacks...

JHMEG

pburns wrote: »

+1
You're leaving out the best cars in this sector.

Something like this far better in every way to the cars you mention:
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201004196720965

If you can find a 08 Legacy diesel it might also be worth considering, might be a bit above the budget

That Accord is very smart looking.

Subaru diesels I was of the impression turned out to be not as good as everyone had hoped?

R.O.R

pburns wrote: »

Windy-down windows are the least of the Audi's drawbacks...

The 2.0TDi engine is pretty good and it's nice and comfortable to drive. Interior layout isn't bad, but it does need a MFSW and cruise control to bring it even near to the specification of the competition.

I was driving an 06 1.8T quattro last week which would have been a pretty expensive car at the time. Nice wheels and Sports seats were the only upgrades to the standard spec. Didn't even have the on board computer that my wife's Ibiza had in 2003.

Moanin

spartacus93 wrote: »

Hey

Just looking for peoples opinions on these 3 cars

08 Passat

07 Lexus IS220d

06 Audi A4 S-Line

It's time for the father to change and we have narrowed it down to these 3, but are open to suggestions. Unfortunately he is limited to buying only off Sheehy Motors so he's not completely free to pick and chose.

He currently drives an Audi A4 1.9TDi 130 Bhp and loves it. He has a new home for this already so it will be a cash deal. No trade in.

His requirements are a 4 door medium sized, rear leg room isn't a big issue anymore, but he would like to be able to carry 4 adults comfortably occasionally.
Has to be diesel with at least high 40s mpg
Has to be reasonably nippy (he's happy with the power in his current Audi, but had a 1.6 passat that he felt was very under powered)

Any thoughts or opinions on the above 3 cars would be great, he hasn't driven the Lexus yet but hopes to do so this weekend.

Thanks

The power lag from the turbo in the lexus is unbelieveble.I would go for the A4.

Rulmeq

Moanin wrote: »

The power lag from the turbo in the lexus is unbelieveble.I would go for the A4.

But not that A4, that's a poverty spec A4, it's an insult that it has an Sline badge on it.

JJJJNR

The passat would get my vote, the 1.9Tdi is very frugal and is fine for day to day driving. Its a 08 so it has the lower tax and is also highline spec with leather etc which is very rare and will help when it comes to selling on.

No brainer imo

copacetic

Just a note that the IS can be a bit impractical as it can't be spec'd with folding rear seats. So anyone who does a bit of diy or ever wants to carry anything long (flatpack furniture etc) should rule it out straight away.

Ban Ki Moon

The lexus looks really good to me but I've never driven one.

I have an A4 of a much better spec than the one the op has posted and i think the price is way over the top!

Passat is an A4 wannabe

-Corkie-

Ban Ki Moon wrote: »

The lexus looks really good to me but I've never driven one.

I have an A4 of a much better spec than the one the op has posted and i think the price is way over the top!

Passat is an A4 wannabe

I dont agree on that, maybe an a6 wannabe allrite. An a4 is cramped and small. The new passat is way way more spacious. A4 is bog standard too, no rear elecs in a 06 executive class car..

Ban Ki Moon

malcox wrote: »

I dont agree on that, maybe an a6 wannabe allrite. An a4 is cramped and small. The new passat is way way more spacious. A4 is bog standard too, no rear elecs in a 06 executive class car..

I did say that the price of the op's A4 is over the top!

I bought mine for the same price as the op's sample 18 months ago and i have "all mod cons" in mine

teednab-el

My 00 Audi A4 imported from the UK has much more spec than this 06 A4. That 06 A4 is a typical Irish spec model.

-Chris-

I'd go for the Passat.

-The A4 is too low spec compared to the other two, and it's the oldest of the three.

-I'd have a hard time stomaching the road tax on the IS.

-I like the spec on the Passat - leather, heated seats etc. - it's in the new tax bracket and it's probably still in warranty (which may be true of the Lexus too).

Ban Ki Moon

teednab-el wrote: »

My 00 Audi A4 imported from the UK has much more spec than this 06 A4. That 06 A4 is a typical Irish spec model.

+1

Ban Ki Moon

-Chris- wrote: »

I'd go for the Passat.

-The A4 is too low spec compared to the other two, and it's the oldest of the three.

-I'd have a hard time stomaching the road tax on the IS.

-I like the spec on the Passat - leather, heated seats etc. - it's in the new tax bracket and it's probably still in warranty (which may be true of the Lexus too).

Almost the perfect reply except for forgetting that the A4 is the best drive

JHMEG

Ban Ki Moon wrote: »

Almost the perfect reply except for forgetting that the A4 is the best drive

Haven't driven that model A4, but it is FWD and shares a lot with the Passat. I'd say the Lexus takes the honour of best drive. At least you can do dough-nuts in it

Ban Ki Moon

JHMEG wrote: »

Haven't driven that model A4, but it is FWD and shares a lot with the Passat. I'd say the Lexus takes the honour of best drive. At least you can do dough-nuts in it

Id rather carry me granny in it:)

JJJJNR

The A4 is actually very nose heavy due to the engine being mounted ahead of the wheels, only a fanboy could think the A4 is a better car in this instance.

There's plenty of power in the 2.0 Tdi but there are obvious reasons other than the badge that makes the passat the better car here.

pburns

Ban Ki Moon wrote: »

Almost the perfect reply except for forgetting that the A4 is the best drive

Sorry but that's complete b0llix...

JJJJNR wrote: »

The A4 is actually very nose heavy due to the engine being mounted ahead of the wheels, only a fanboy could think the A4 is a better car in this instance.

There's plenty of power in the 2.0 Tdi but there are obvious reasons other than the badge that makes the passat the better car here.

+1

As he's considering the Lexus the OP's dad is obvoiusly not blinkered towards thinking German marques are higher quality. Also, the OP doesn't mention whyit's so vital to deal with Sheehys. Like I said I think an Accord would be the best buy in this segment but if it has to be one of those three the Passat is probably the best all-rounder.

maddness

Almost the perfect reply except for forgetting that the A4 is the best drive[/QUOTE]

You are kidding right?

The A4 chasis could'nt handle a wet week.

eamon234

Avoid the Passat like the plague company I work for bought 50 odd in 2007 had nothing but trouble with them - replaced them all last year with the Avensis ugly and all as it is it's reliable and the spec is far better for the money.
I'd go for the Audi myself though.

catiny

anything but the lexus!!

bazz26

catiny wrote: »

anything but the lexus!!

Wow, that's it settled them.

spartacus93

Thanks for all the replies lads. Had a closer look at a few over the weekend. Have plenty to be thinking about!

bazz26 wrote: »

The 1.9 TDi doesn't have a bad reputation, it is just an old engine originating back to the begining of the 1990s. These days it is unrefined, noisy, has a very narrow power band and not particularly quick despite what some of the fans say. On the plus side it is tried and tested technology, doesn't have fancy common rail injectors or dual mass flywheels which fail regularly on modern day diesel engines. Given the choice though I would still pass on it.

If you do not need alot of space would your father consider a Volvo S40 2.0d? The SE spec is pretty decent which includes, climate control, leather seats, cd changer, etc. The 2.0d is a Peugeot/Citroen Hdi unit with 136bhp. For the same prices as those 3 you would probably be looking at a 2008 on the new tax system. Down sides are that rear leg room is a bit tight and access to the boot is narrow being based on the Ford Focus. Volvo parts and servicing are also on the expensive side.

Thanks Bazz.

They have a 08 S40 for ok money. Nice car, not sure if i'd take one over a Passat to be honest.

JHMEG wrote: »

I think the class leaders are BMW (eg 320D) and Honda (eg Accord 2.2). (BMWs had a propensity for blowing turbos tho, dunno if that's still the case)

Cheers, thanks. Must look into the Accord more.

copacetic wrote: »

Just a note that the IS can be a bit impractical as it can't be spec'd with folding rear seats. So anyone who does a bit of diy or ever wants to carry anything long (flatpack furniture etc) should rule it out straight away.

I did not know that. Not a problem, but it's a bit odd.

malcox wrote: »

I dont agree on that, maybe an a6 wannabe allrite. An a4 is cramped and small. The new passat is way way more spacious. A4 is bog standard too, no rear elecs in a 06 executive class car..

Madness!

-Chris- wrote: »

I'd go for the Passat.

-The A4 is too low spec compared to the other two, and it's the oldest of the three.

-I'd have a hard time stomaching the road tax on the IS.

-I like the spec on the Passat - leather, heated seats etc. - it's in the new tax bracket and it's probably still in warranty (which may be true of the Lexus too).

Cheers Chris, you make a good argument.

pburns wrote: »

Also, the OP doesn't mention whyit's so vital to deal with Sheehys. Like I said I think an Accord would be the best buy in this segment but if it has to be one of those three the Passat is probably the best all-rounder.

That's irrelevant, will only be buying off Sheeys tho (Naas or Carlow). I doesn't have to be one of them 3 by any stretch, but there's a good chance it will be, or something very similar.

catiny wrote: »

anything but the lexus!!

Let me guess, a Range Rover, Discovery, Saab, or an A4?

Scienceless

bazz26 wrote: »

The IS220d engine is a bit unrefined for this class of car and gearing is very odd unless you go for the Sport model

What do you mean by that exactly?

sundodger5

i think he means that first is very short and 6th is useless below 120kmh. at 120kmh you will be doing around 1800rpm the engine is labouring below that.
i find engine ok. bit tail happy when pushing on though.

Fishtits

In fairness, the Lexus is the honest offering here.

VAG have dumped dirty engines on us for years, we have been on average 2 years behind the German market in terms of CO emissions, and even then they were nothing spectacular ...

PPS, are VAG still using a timing belt?

Disclosure: Mrs Fishtits has a 150K Golf tdi with no faults. I hate the damn thing, it has to be the roughest, nose heavy, wallowy machine ever built.

But its never let her down...