The vehicle finance trap

meep

All

Bought a second-hand car a few years ago from an established, reputable (SIMI), multi-agency dealership.

Going to sell now, it has emerged that there is finance outstanding on the vehicle. (<- didn't check at time, hands up, stupid mistake, don't need to be rebuked for that and will never make same mistake again!).

Spoke to bank who finance is with who say there's a significant amount due on the vehicle, they have a repossession order on it and have asked me to 'make them an offer' to clear the finance and release vehicle for sale.

I'm incensed. It looks like I'm going to end up paying off a loan that some thief took out and failed to repay while fraudulently trading the vehicle in to a dealership.

Apart from the legality of the situation, how can this be fair?

In the UK, they have consumer legislation for this exact case (purchase a vehicle from an individual or garage and when it's later found out that finance is outstanding, the finance house can only pursue the garage or the person who took out the finance originally).

Why can't we have similar common sense laws here? How lazy are this bank and how cheeky are they asking me to 'make an offer' which they couch in terms of doing me a favour!

Aggghhhhh!

P.

Cabaal

How much is outstanding?.....depending on the value of the car and how much is outstanding it may not be worth paying thje outstanding amount.

Perhaps look around the market and look at what the car is going for, odds are they'll take any offer thats anyway decent as they know themselfs they'll have a hard time selling it at auction for any decent price.

meep

The outstanding amount is around the same as an offer I've received (i.e the market value)

godtabh

Would you not just sell it?

Now does this work legally? Who owns the car?

amerden

meep wrote: »

All

Bought a second-hand car a few years ago from an established, reputable (SIMI), multi-agency dealership.

P.

Would suggest that you contact the selling dealer that you purchased the car from and inform them of the situation, you may find that THEY did not settle the finance on the vehicle when they purchased or took in vehicle in as a part exchange (often happens), if they refuse to settle then I would threaten them with legal action as they sold a vehicle to you which was not free of title. I would also contact the SIMI and inform them of the situation and what you intend to do if the outstanding finance is not settled by the their member.

meep

godtabh wrote: »

Would you not just sell it?

Now does this work legally? Who owns the car?

Nobody in their right mind would buy it! (I actually have it a deal done and the buyer is VERY patient, waiting for me to resolve this issue.)

The bank informs me that THEY own the car, legally! It's a HP agreement with someone else.

com1

Yeah, I'd be going after the dealer you bought the car from with a very big stick

meep

amerden wrote: »

Would suggest that you contact the selling dealer that you purchased the car from and inform them of the situation, you may find that THEY did not settle the finance on the vehicle when they purchased or took in vehicle in as a part exchange (often happens), if they refuse to settle then I would threaten them with legal action as they sold a vehicle to you which was not free of title. I would also contact the SIMI and inform them of the situation and what you intend to do if the outstanding finance is not settled by the their member.

Ah! The Rub. That would of course be my course of action. Unfortunately, the dealership has subsequently gone out of business (in receivership at moment).

SIMI are useless, washing their hands saying if garage is closed, they are no longer members and so they can't do anything.

Mr Digger

Wow sorry for your trouble, a solicitor might point you in the right direction, I'm havin exactly the same problem except the garage is still in business- well until the court date..:rolleyes: You might argue the toss with SIMI as at the time of purchase they were a member and, of course, thats why you bought from them in the 1st place as they were governed by their code of ethics.. laughable, I know your pain m8.. its probably the most frustrating thing to deal with..

meep

Mr Digger wrote: »

Wow sorry for your trouble, a solicitor might point you in the right direction, I'm havin exactly the same problem except the garage is still in business- well until the court date..:rolleyes: You might argue the toss with SIMI as at the time of purchase they were a member and, of course, thats why you bought from them in the 1st place as they were governed by their code of ethics.. laughable, I know your pain m8.. its probably the most frustrating thing to deal with..

My solicitor is ruminating on it now. I've never sued anyone in my life but I'm so infuriated by this I want to sue everyone - except there's no-one to sue!! (unless maybe the liquidator of the dealership but that would likely be pointless as there's probably no cash there in any case).

Can I ask how long the legal process is taking for you and if you have to keep the vehicle pending the outcome?

godtabh

That's some response from SIMI!

shergar22

godtabh wrote: »

That's some response from SIMI!

Why not go down the Joe Duffy / Liveline route? The negative publicity might shame SIMI into ponying up?

meep

I don't think the SIMI have any liability here, do they?

If the dealership was still active, I would lodge a complaint and pursue it that way before going down legal route. However SIMI would only be mediation etc. I don't see how they would have any financial liability?

Really, my irk here is at the legal loopholes that allow this kind of situation to arise. There is absolutely no protection for me at all!

Mr Digger

meep wrote: »

My solicitor is ruminating on it now. I've never sued anyone in my life but I'm so infuriated by this I want to sue everyone - except there's no-one to sue!! (unless maybe the liquidator of the dealership but that would likely be pointless as there's probably no cash there in any case).

Can I ask how long the legal process is taking for you and if you have to keep the vehicle pending the outcome?

Its been ongoing for a month now, we are applying for a circuit court date on Tuesday, one point you may not have considered. If you are driving this vehicle fully comp insured and anything happens to it, the cheque will go straight to the bank that financed it originally, you won't see a penny, you are paying insurance to protect the bankks interests, laughable..I have parked mine up and hired another, I'm suing for this cost as well.. I dream of the things I want to do to the shower of to**ers..
End of the day they sold you something that did not belong to them, talk to the gards as well..

DonnieBrasco

this is fuccked up.

the motor tax office or dept finance should be responsible for administration/regulation of this stuff.

Mr Digger

DonnieBrasco wrote: »

this is fuccked up.

the motor tax office or dept finance should be responsible for administration/regulation of this stuff.

In Ireland...!! U are right tho, totally fccked up...

ejmaztec

Quite a few years ago, I bought a s/h car from a Ford dealership, and after I taxed it I got a letter from AIB Financing and Leasing, notifying me that the car that I'd just taxed belonged to them.

After involving a solicitor, the Ford dealership ended up paying off the outstanding finance, so my problem went away. The previous "owner" had traded the car in, bought a car on finance, then left the country never to be seen again. The dealer didn't do an HPI check.

In the OP's case, the thing that seems to be missing from his scenario, is that the finance company hadn't contacted him in the same way that AIB F&L contacted me. I don't know what the procedure was for the finance company to keep tabs on their assets, but it must be worth looking into.

Also, if the car was purchased more than 6 years ago, wouldn't any action by the finance company be statute-barred, if during that time there was no contact from the finance company? How long ago was it purchased?

meep

ejmaztec wrote: »

Also, if the car was purchased more than 6 years ago, wouldn't any action by the finance company be statute-barred, if during that time there was no contact from the finance company? How long ago was it purchased?

It's an 06 reg., purchased by me sept. 08

ejmaztec

meep wrote: »

It's an 06 reg., purchased by me sept. 08

Oh bugger:(

I imagined that "a few years" was a lot more time than 18 months.

wildefalcon

That's Ireland!

You exist purely to be scalped by the Banks.

The only time you have a choise is when you vote: but you are given a choice between two identical parties, both financed by ..................the banks.

WildeFalcon.

ilovelamp2000

meep wrote: »

Going to sell now, it has emerged that there is finance outstanding on the vehicle. (<- didn't check at time, hands up, stupid mistake, don't need to be rebuked for that and will never make same mistake again!).

That's probably going to leave without any remedy here.

slavetothegrind

You would think it would be simple to have the government registration body in Shannon to check the reg for outstanding finance and the like whilst registering change of ownership.
Would be nothing to them and would save a lot of hassle!!!!
The service should be free on line like a vrt calculator, input the reg and read the result!

That's my naieve thought for today:rolleyes:

Pythia

wildefalcon wrote: »

That's Ireland!

You exist purely to be scalped by the Banks.

The Bank haven't done anything wrong here, they are owed money that they are entitled to.

Hudson121

I took a truck from a finance agency; they funded me 90% of the truck amount. I found them in Google search and then I approached them. The rate of interest was not very high. The formalities very not confusing and it did not take a very long time. So I suggest everyone out there to finance your vehicle by some agency it definitely was a great help for me.

kbell

Pythia wrote: »

The Bank haven't done anything wrong here, they are owed money that they are entitled to.

By the person/ company that took out the finance.
Why aren't they going after them?

whippet

kbell wrote: »

By the person/ company that took out the finance.
Why aren't they going after them?

They probably can't go after the person who took out the finance as either they have disappeared or if it's the case of the dealer they have no money.

Therefore they have to recover 'their' asset that secured the finance ... Regardless of whoever the keeper at the moment is.

Think about it ... I could get my brother to finance a car just before he emigrates and then he sells it to me for €1 and never pays a penny yo the bank. Do you think I would be entitled to keep the car?

slimjimmc

kbell wrote: »

By the person/ company that took out the finance.
Why aren't they going after them?

The vehicle is legally owned by the bank until the loan is paid off, they're entitled to their property back or settlement of the loan. That's why they're going after the person who is in possession of the car now.

kippy

slimjimmc wrote: »

The vehicle is legally owned by the bank until the loan is paid off, they're entitled to their property back or settlement of the loan. That's why they're going after the person who is in possession of the car now.

And rightly so, however it is a tad unfair on the OP
The bank own the car, the car was never the original owners and following that the dealerships to sell.
The OP is in a bad situation by the sound of it and the complication is the fact that the dealership has gone under. Otherwise it would be fairly straightforward as I believe consumer law would protect you from the mistake of the dealer.
The OP has been caught up in this, having already parted with X euros for the car to a dealer who plainly missed out on the most basic of checks and sold the care with some form of negligence.
The fact that the bank want another X euros to "release" the car makes it a lose lose situation for the OP.
Essentially I see the issue here between the bank and the dealership. You have paid the dealership for the car. The bank SHOULD deal with the receivers of the dealership as far as I am concerned (NOT A LEGAL OPINION) and failing that SIMI. The dealership, are ultimately negligent in this situation - the OP has acted in good faith in their transaction with a regulated organisation, an organisation that has failed badly yet the OP is going to end up out of pocket here no matter what happens.


What are the time scales involved here? It is very strange that you hadnt been contacted about it before.

dilallio

Really sorry to hear this story.

There is one other potential avenue you could persue.

If the bank who held the finance agreement were aware of the issue from when you purchased the car, but ignored it until now, they effectively removed any recourse you had to get your money back from the dealership.

A previous poster who was in the same boat has said that when they taxed the car, the finance company informed them that they owned the car.

If you could find out if the bank knew about this but didn't tell you, then you would have a much stronger case against the bank.

Head The Wall

First thing I would do is cancel the insurance, it's not your property so you are not responsible for it. Secondly remove all parts that you can make a buck off, alloys, stereo, exhaust (cat) seats, lights etc and get some of your money back and abandon it somewhere.

The finance company have no ties to you and it is essentially their property so the condition it is in is their problem, you didn't sign anything with them stating you would keep it to a certain standard etc. so they don't know what condition it was in when you bought it or what condition it's in now. I don't see how legally you would be responsible to hand it back in a certain condition when their contract is with their original customer.

These guys really need to learn how to look after their property and this may teach them a lesson. There has obviously been no finance paid on it for nearly 2.5 years so why haven't they looked for it since then

dudara

Closing this zombie thread

dudara