Pick the bones outta this - one for the historians!

Vintagekits

"Mr. Griffiths visits Sligo"

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=18504

Prizes for spotting the whos, whats, wheres and whens!

Enjoy!!

genie

The Courthouse with bars on the windows?
Definite view of the Town Hall.
View of Castle Street looking towards the Market Cross?
Did I see Michael Collins and de Valera walking into the meeting?
Will need to look at it again!
Great find!

The.Q

Nice one, Vintagekits. Definitely very interesting. Do you know anything about the history of this meeting? Is this the April 1922 meeting, which was proclaimed by Pilkington, who was the divisonal commander of the Anti-treaty forces in Sligo at the time?




I'm looking at this while in work, and for some reason the video isn't working, so I'm going by the stills. These are the places and people, Etc., that I think I can recognise.

• (from 0:05 to 0:51) I wonder what road they're blocking off at the beginning?
• (0:52 - 1:02) People outside a doorway, can't tell where that is.
• (1:03 - 1:48) The lads looking out through the railing are (I think) at the court house.
• (1:49 - 2:00) Next fellas in the truck, outside the town/city hall...
• (2:01 - 2:14) ...then driving off along Quay Street. In the background, 2 fellas looking out a doorway, the sign over their heads could say (I think) something about a School, which could be the Quay Street Marist Brothers School, perhaps?
• (2:15 - 2:24) Now more views of town hall, and ...
• (2:25 - 2:44) ...a couple of likely lads pointing guns out the window of the town hall.
• (2:45 - 2:56) Next, the truck with crowds behind it, seems to be at Market Cross.
• (2:57 - 3:04) Where's that the men in uniforms are passing on their left-hand side, with the large grille-covered windows? I think I can see a chimney stack in the background. I firstly thought this could be Adelaide Street, but the street-scape doesn't look right. Would that be Queens Stores behind the chimney-stack, making this Union Street?
• (3:05 - 3:12) Is that Griffith (?) in the pork-pie hat walking towards the camera, with "Robert E. Grady, coach builders" sign on building behind him. I can't figure out where that is, he seems to be walking up a slight hill, crossing an entrance to somewhere. Most of the others seem to be near Quay Street, so this is probably somewhere in the vicinity. If we knew where Robert E. Grady had his Sligo offices, we'd know where Griffith is. (Robert E Grady was a coach-builder in Dawson St, Dublin, so this is probably only a branch).
• (3:13 - 3:21) Is that Collins walking towards the camera? again the same location as above.
• (3:22 - 3:30) Is that W.T. Cosgrave getting out of the car with the top-hat?
• (3:31 - 3:37) That surely must be Dev in the black hat and coat walking up the steps, probably of the town hall?
• (3:38 - 3:51) Men standing on a platform, what's the flag they're holding? Who's the man with the beard (Pilkington?), talking to the crowd?
• (3:52 - 4:06) Truck blocking the road at Carroll's (Sackville St/O'Connell St?)
• (4:07 - 4:19) Looks to me like looking down O'Connell St from the bottom of Harmony Hill, large crowd outside what is now Vodafone, Carraig Donn and Tobergal Lane. Is this where the men on the platform (above) are standing?
• (4:20 - 4:33) Group of men looking at the camera, can't really tell who or where they are.

All-in-all, a very interesting piece of footage, and well worth studying in greater detail. Well done on finding it.

ddoom

Another bit of trivia, Michael Collins was interned in Sligo Gaol (Jail).

Other notable names to be interred there were Frank Carty (IRA Leader during War for Independence), Michael Davitt (Irish Republican/Member of Parliament and founder of Irish National Land League), and Jack Doyle (Irish Boxer from Cobh).

The.Q

ddoom wrote: »

Another bit of trivia, Michael Collins was interned in Sligo Gaol (Jail).

Other notable names to be interred there were Frank Carty (IRA Leader during War for Independence), Michael Davitt (Irish Republican/Member of Parliament and founder of Irish National Land League), and Jack Doyle (Irish Boxer from Cobh).

Yeah. Look at all the original revisions on the wikipedia page for sligo gaol and you'll see who created and researched that page

ddoom

Not trying to score points, but I back in 1998 published this information to the Internet on a Web site I then ran, many years before Wikipedia was even conceived, as I also did quite a considerable amount of research on the subject of Sligo Gaol and I posted the information here from my own research.

So no need to get tetchy, I was not trying to rain on your parade, fair play that you and Vintagekits have done the research but does not imply that others have not done the same or are as knowledgeable about the subject nor does it imply that you have sole rights to the information.

My own Grandfather was involved in a Prison Break during the War of Independence from the Gaol where they stole a Ladder from Brooks Hanley's and used this to assist prisoners escape.

itac

Cheers for that VintageKits! It was strange to see the oh-so-familiar-layout of certain streets without their facades of today, but kinda nice as well.
My Granddad worked at the courts for many years, so anything to do with them always gets my interest. I think I may be trawling that Pathe site for many months to come, some fascinating stuff on there!
Thanks again:)

CityMan2010

Top post..thanks VK.

Does anyone know of where there may be photos with names of Anti-Treaty Volunteers from 1923? (personal family research).

Michael Farrys Sligo 1921-1923. History. The Aftermath of Revolution - Sligo 1921-23 mentions a family member.

Some great photos in the above, but there is one of a group of Anti-Treaty Volunteers without any names.

Thanks

Vintagekits

ddoom wrote: »

Not trying to score points, but I back in 1998 published this information to the Internet on a Web site I then ran, many years before Wikipedia was even conceived, as I also did quite a considerable amount of research on the subject of Sligo Gaol and I posted the information here from my own research.

So no need to get tetchy, I was not trying to rain on your parade, fair play that you and Vintagekits have done the research but does not imply that others have not done the same or are as knowledgeable about the subject nor does it imply that you have sole rights to the information.

My own Grandfather was involved in a Prison Break during the War of Independence from the Gaol where they stole a Ladder from Brooks Hanley's and used this to assist prisoners escape.

you tryin ta steal my thunder? :cool:



I read about those prison breaks in the Farry book "Aftermath of Revolution".

Its interesting to see that Tubber was heavily anti-Treaty and is still a FF stronghold and Ballymote was heavily pro-Treaty and is still a FG stronghold.

Tribalism has thrived for a long time in these parts!

itac wrote: »

Cheers for that VintageKits! It was strange to see the oh-so-familiar-layout of certain streets without their facades of today, but kinda nice as well.
My Granddad worked at the courts for many years, so anything to do with them always gets my interest. I think I may be trawling that Pathe site for many months to come, some fascinating stuff on there!
Thanks again:)

My own Grandfather kept the courts busy back in the days as well!

The.Q

ddoom wrote: »

Not trying to score points, but I back in 1998 published this information to the Internet on a Web site I then ran, many years before Wikipedia was even conceived, as I also did quite a considerable amount of research on the subject of Sligo Gaol and I posted the information here from my own research.

So no need to get tetchy, I was not trying to rain on your parade, fair play that you and Vintagekits have done the research but does not imply that others have not done the same or are as knowledgeable about the subject nor does it imply that you have sole rights to the information.

My own Grandfather was involved in a Prison Break during the War of Independence from the Gaol where they stole a Ladder from Brooks Hanley's and used this to assist prisoners escape.

Sorry, sorry, sorry, ddoom, I wasn't getting tetchy, maybe I should have put a smiley face at the end of my comment . Actually, it was Vintagekits who did all that spade work on wikipedia, all I did was correct his terrible spelling and grammar .

Without trying to sound condescending, fair play to ye if you've done all that research, it's more then I've done! I didn't mean to imply that you just lifted that from Wikipedia, and if that's how it came across, apologies. For all I know Vintagekits could have lifted his info from your original site (:p) Great story re your grandfather and stealing a ladder from Hanleys (which I presume was in Old Market Street then), when was that?

Stevedore

Everyone's granda were IRA activists, give me a break, most of the IRA emigrated to America after the civil war because their lives were ruined, they were boycotted and sacked from their jobs, as for the ladder story it sounds a bit Killnascully to me, when I ask people of proof of their ancestors involvement they never have any, the odd person refers to the black and tan medal which were handed out many years after the event under dubious circumstances.
Everyone's ancestors were hiding under the bed and trying to get on with their lives, my wife's grandfather was out in 1916, jailed in the War of Independence and the Civil War (18 months in total) was forced to emigrate and never received a medal or pension, like Ernie O'Malley said it's easy to lie on another mans wounds
.

zonEEE

Stevedore wrote: »

Everyone's granda were IRA activists, give me a break, most of the IRA emigrated to America after the civil war because their lives were ruined, they were boycotted and sacked from their jobs, as for the ladder story it sounds a bit Killnascully to me, when I ask people of proof of their ancestors involvement they never have any, the odd person refers to the black and tan medal which were handed out many years after the event under dubious circumstances.
Everyone's ancestors were hiding under the bed and trying to get on with their lives, my wife's grandfather was out in 1916, jailed in the War of Independence and the Civil War (18 months in total) was forced to emigrate and never received a medal or pension, like Ernie O'Malley said it's easy to lie on another mans wounds
.

Meet me at marys of sligo in the morning, ill buy you a medal

ddoom

Okay, My Grandfather did receive the Black & Tan with Comrac. I also have a picture of him with Billy (Liam) Pilkington GOC (General Officer Commanding) of the 3rd Western Division IRA 1921-1923.

Also I have a picture of my Grandfather with Brigadier-General Seamus Devins and four other men with their arms.

Lastly the escape plot using the ladder is told in a book which also names my Grandfather, I have at home, can not remember the name but will post this evening. This book is also now out-of-print.

My Grandfather died young leaving a wife and 7 children, no pension, nothing. His wife only received a pension from his service nearly 40 years after his death.
He also had to emigrate to the US in 1921 and stayed there for a number of years.

So Stevedore, I am in possession of all of the above, so this should be more than enough proof for even someone as cynical as you seem to be.

The.Q

ANyway, getting back to the original post, has anyone any ideas on the following people/places from the newsreel:

1. (from 0:05 to 0:51) I wonder what road they're blocking off at the beginning?
2. (0:52 - 1:02) People outside a doorway, can't tell where that is.
3. (2:57 - 3:04) Where's that the men in uniforms are passing on their left-hand side, with the large grille-covered windows? I think I can see a chimney stack in the background. I firstly thought this could be Adelaide Street, but the street-scape doesn't look right. Would that be Queens Stores behind the chimney-stack, making this Union Street?
4. (3:05 - 3:12) Is that Griffith (?) in the pork-pie hat walking towards the camera, with "Robert E. Grady, coach builders" sign on building behind him. I can't figure out where that is, he seems to be walking up a slight hill, crossing an entrance to somewhere. Most of the others seem to be near Quay Street, so this is probably somewhere in the vicinity. If we knew where Robert E. Grady had his Sligo offices, we'd know where Griffith is. (Robert E Grady was a coach-builder in Dawson St, Dublin, so this is probably only a branch).
5. (3:13 - 3:21) Is that Collins walking towards the camera? again the same location as above.
6. (3:22 - 3:30) Is that W.T. Cosgrave getting out of the car with the top-hat?
7. (3:31 - 3:37) That surely must be Dev in the black hat and coat walking up the steps, probably of the town hall?
8. (3:38 - 3:51) Men standing on a platform, what's the flag they're holding? Who's the man with the beard (Pilkington?), talking to the crowd?
9. (4:20 - 4:33) Group of men looking at the camera, can't really tell who or where they are.

ddoom

The name of the book is "Sworn to be free The complete book of IRA Jainbreaks 1918 - 1921" published by Anvil Books and forwarded by Florence O'Donoghue.