Waterford's Representatives in the Dáil - Present and Future

Ri na hEireann

There is a quorum for Constitutional referenda but not for General Elections.

ROCKMAN

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

There is no quorum of the electorate required for a valid poll so a 1% turnout would still be a valid election.

All i can say is WOW , totally shocked



Oh Thanks for the answer

mike65

You can't stop democracy by not voting!

Ri na hEireann

mike65 wrote: »

You can't stop democracy by not voting!

Exactly. The 99% have to take some responsibility for not being arsed to vote or not having an alternative to put forward.

I'd imagine if 99% of the people were boycotting a revolution would probably be on the cards as it would be more a rejection of the system as opposed to the candidates.

Deise Tom

ROCKMAN wrote: »

I want to ask a bit of a mad question [pub debate:D] but I would like to know the answer ..if anyone can answer it


Just say that 99 percentage of the voters decided that none of the candidates where worth voting for and a mass boycott was organised so on election day only a few hundred votes where cast [just candidates families and friends]. Would the candidate with the most votes from these few votes still be elected or could/would the election be void ,
Is there a figure that has to reach, by law , to make an election valid or is always just a winning percentage of votes cast no matter how small the turn out.

If only one person in the whole of Waterford voted, provided they did not spoil their vote, the person that they gave Number 1 to would be elected. As for this thing about people staying away, those that do that have no right to critise any polition from any party when they are elected or not elected as the case may be.

Deise Tom

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

There is no quorum of the electorate required for a valid poll so a 1% turnout would still be a valid election.

Ya, all that is needed is a majotity of the votes to be elected.

Deise Tom

deisemum wrote: »

That would be interesting but I think they have quotas to reach.

only quota needed is a majority of the valid number of people that voted, be it as straight number ones or number ones plus transfers as others are elimanated.

Deise Tom

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

There is a quorum for Constitutional referenda but not for General Elections.

Not disputing you when you say a quorum is needed for a refernda, but i thought it was a simply a case of half the valid vote plus one in a referenda.

Deise Tom

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

Exactly. The 99% have to take some responsibility for not being arsed to vote or not having an alternative to put forward.

I'd imagine if 99% of the people were boycotting a revolution would probably be on the cards as it would be more a rejection of the system as opposed to the candidates.

No it would not be seen as a boycot. All it would be seen as is people were all talk and no action and could not be arsed to get to their polling station. As for talk of a revolution......

Ri na hEireann

Deise Tom wrote: »

Not disputing you when you say a quorum is needed for a refernda, but i thought it was a simply a case of half the valid vote plus one in a referenda.

As per Bunreacht na hÉireann:

Article 47 2. 1° Every proposal, other than a proposal to amend the Constitution, which is submitted by Referendum to the decision of the people shall be held to have been vetoed by the people if a majority of the votes cast at such Referendum shall have been cast against its enactment into law and if the votes so cast against its enactment into law shall have amounted to not less than thirty-three and one-third per cent. of the voters on the register.

It needs 50% + 1 vote to be carried or rejected but the Referendum will be deemed invalid if turnout is below 33.3%

*It's only for rejection. If less then 33.3% turn out and accept the proposal it will be carried

Ri na hEireann

Deise Tom wrote: »

No it would not be seen as a boycot. All it would be seen as is people were all talk and no action and could not be arsed to get to their polling station. As for talk of a revolution......

Well given turnout is generally around 70% it couldn't be seen as anything else.

It would be seen as a rejection of the political institutions.

jayboi

It seems a bit messed up what if you didnt like any of the candidates? lets say that all were basicly the same(which is a very real problem hardly stretch of the immagination) so its your fault for thinking none of the candidates can better our country.

To me it seems the whole system is skewed towards the type of people that are in government at the moment, keeping there type in and keeping the type of people that might be able to create a better system out.


P.S have we 3 threads basicly talking about the same topic
This thread
The future TD thread
Martin Cullen resigns(different i know but same stuff being discussed really)

Ri na hEireann

jayboi wrote: »

It seems a bit messed up what if you didnt like any of the candidates? lets say that all were basicly the same(which is a very real problem hardly stretch of the immagination) so its your fault for thinking none of the candidates can better our country.

To me it seems the whole system is skewed towards the type of people that are in government at the moment, keeping there type in and keeping the type of people that might be able to create a better system out.

There will always be a number of people who don't care for any of the candidates.

Either they don't get involved in the democratic system by exercising their right not to vote. They may also participate by spoiling their vote.

Alternatively they can put their own name before the people if they don't like any of the choices or think they would do better. They may try lobby somebody they think would represent them well to run. If that dissatisfied they could start their own political party with like-minded people.

There's plenty of options. That's the joy of democracy.

ROCKMAN

My boycott idea was just a weird question really but have said that , I was think along the lines of an organised public boycott ,where people didnt vote but still took to the streets and protested outside polling stations etc , It would be not a case of laziness or lack of interest in voting ,it would be clear that the complete opposite was meant .
My view was surely the views of 99 percentage of any local electorate could not be ignored.
But I was wrong seemly .

Deise Tom

ROCKMAN wrote: »

My boycott idea was just a weird question really but have said that , I was think along the lines of an organised public boycott ,where people didnt vote but still took to the streets and protested outside polling stations etc , It would be not a case of laziness or lack of interest in voting ,it would be clear that the complete opposite was meant .
My view was surely the views of 99 percentage of any local electorate could not be ignored.
But I was wrong seemly .

Cant see what taking to the streets will solve for anyone. I know people want FF out and out very fast, but will the crowd that comes in, in there place do any better. History would suggest no, but then again things might change.

Smiley Burnett

spoken like a true Fianna Failer!!!!!! thats exactly what FF said at the last election!! "if you vote for FG and Labour you will get a slump coalition and our economy will be wrecked!" Well Tom, we know who wrecked our economy and destroyed our country, and it wasnt FG and Labour!!!!Fianna Fail are a treacherous bunch of villains and crooks supported by idiots! My cat could do a better job of running the country than them!! I'll choke the first Fianna Fail canvasser that comes looking for my vote!!

P.S. I NOTICE CHARLIE HAUGHEY'S SON-IN-LAW SETTLED WITH THE TAXMAN FOR 1.5 MILLION YESTERDAY!! (and you have the cheek to come on here defending social welfare cuts to the disabled!)

AdMMM

No matter who was running our country, our economy would have been wrecked.

Deise Tom

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

spoken like a true Fianna Failer!!!!!! thats exactly what FF said at the last election!! "if you vote for FG and Labour you will get a slump coalition and our economy will be wrecked!" Well Tom, we know who wrecked our economy and destroyed our country, and it wasnt FG and Labour!!!!Fianna Fail are a treacherous bunch of villains and crooks supported by idiots! My cat could do a better job of running the country than them!! I'll choke the first Fianna Fail canvasser that comes looking for my vote!!

P.S. I NOTICE CHARLIE HAUGHEY'S SON-IN-LAW SETTLED WITH THE TAXMAN FOR 1.5 MILLION YESTERDAY!! (and you have the cheek to come on here defending social welfare cuts to the disabled!)

I am disabled, anyone that knows me will tell you that, you might even know me or know me to see me, and yes the disabled were cut last time out, and to be honest, i did not complain because everyone was cut exept the OAPs who are probabally the best off people in this country. Just over €8 a week was taken from me. That is not a massive drop in income. If i was a smoker i would not get a box of fags for it and if i was a drinker i'm sure that if i was in a pub for a night i would spend more than €8. Everyone has to make sacrifices and disabled people who drink and smoke could make back their €8 quite simply by spending less on drink or smoking. I keep the €8 the government took off me by spending less in the bookies on a saturday.

Please point out to me as well what i said wrong if i talk like a true Fianna Failer as you put it. I simply stated facts in my last post. Check them out if you want.

Smiley Burnett

you didnt state a fact! you gave your opinion about wether or not the "other crowd" would run the country any better! there's a world of difference between fact and opinion!

with regard to your cut of €8---what do you think of NAMA boss, frank daly, receiving a pay increase of 70,000 from the govt???

Tis time the likes of you copped on!!!

Smiley Burnett

Deise Tom wrote: »

I am disabled, anyone that knows me will tell you that, you might even know me or know me to see me, and yes the disabled were cut last time out, and to be honest, i did not complain because everyone was cut exept the OAPs who are probabally the best off people in this country. Just over €8 a week was taken from me. That is not a massive drop in income. If i was a smoker i would not get a box of fags for it and if i was a drinker i'm sure that if i was in a pub for a night i would spend more than €8. Everyone has to make sacrifices and disabled people who drink and smoke could make back their €8 quite simply by spending less on drink or smoking. I keep the €8 the government took off me by spending less in the bookies on a saturday.

Please point out to me as well what i said wrong if i talk like a true Fianna Failer as you put it. I simply stated facts in my last post. Check them out if you want.

jesus wept!!!! "Everyone has to make sacrifices and disabled people who drink and smoke could make back their €8 quite simply by spending less on drink or smoking"

Deise Tom

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

you didnt state a fact! you gave your opinion about wether or not the "other crowd" would run the country any better! there's a world of difference between fact and opinion!

with regard to your cut of €8---what do you think of NAMA boss, frank daly, receiving a pay increase of 70,000 from the govt???

Tis time the likes of you copped on!!!

I know nothing about NAMA nor dont want to.

Deise Tom

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

jesus wept!!!! "Everyone has to make sacrifices and disabled people who drink and smoke could make back their €8 quite simply by spending less on drink or smoking"

Those that give out about there eight euro could yes.

Roanmore

AdMMM wrote: »

No matter who was running our country, our economy would have been wrecked.

Can you please expand on this? Are you saying our present government had nothing to do with the economy over the last 8 years?

Deise Tom

Roanmore wrote: »

Can you please expand on this? Are you saying our present government had nothing to do with the economy over the last 8 years?

The government who played a part in the present economy. There is also other factors.

Smiley Burnett

Deise Tom wrote: »

I know nothing about NAMA nor dont want to.

another classic from deise tom!

AdMMM

Roanmore wrote: »

Can you please expand on this? Are you saying our present government had nothing to do with the economy over the last 8 years?

Most other developed countries are going through the same ordeal. Retrospectively, the recession was an inevitability and no matter which political party was steering the ship at the time, the end result would have pretty much been the same. Ireland is too small a country to be able to stand on its own two feet where economics are concerned and our fates are entwined with the larger countries whose lead we're forced to follow.

Of course, it's obvious that decisions this Government made affected the harshness of the recessions/credit crunch effects on people. They made a lot of blunders along the way but thankfully they did get some things right (such as extensive investment in infrastructure or free college fees), so all is not lost. It's easy for the opposition to retrospectively highlight all these errs' but to suggest that they would have done anything different is somewhat laughable!

Sully

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

another classic from deise tom!

Mod Warning

Cut it out please. Attack the post (with at least a sensible argument) and not the poster. Carry on with your posting trend like it is now, and you will be banned.

Deise Tom

AdMMM wrote: »

Most other developed countries are going through the same ordeal. Retrospectively, the recession was an inevitability and no matter which political party was steering the ship at the time, the end result would have pretty much been the same. Ireland is too small a country to be able to stand on its own two feet where economics are concerned and our fates are entwined with the larger countries whose lead we're forced to follow.

Of course, it's obvious that decisions this Government made affected the harshness of the recessions/credit crunch effects on people. They made a lot of blunders along the way but thankfully they did get some things right (such as extensive investment in infrastructure or free college fees), so all is not lost. It's easy for the opposition to retrospectively highlight all these errs' but to suggest that they would have done anything different is somewhat laughable!

Well said. There is an awful lot of smart arse people in this country who do not want to face up to facts. Too many people blame FF for all that is gone wrong but they are wrong, very wrong. (Just watch who i suspect is a FG councillor come in now and tell me i am talking like a true Fianna Failer or some other smart arse name). Are Fianna Fail responsible for what is happening right throughout the world. If you listen to some the answer would be yes. Since the World Wide recession kicked in, we have seen a change in America, there is going to be elections in the not too distant future in the UK and we are told we will see a change, there is regional elections in France this weekend (I think) and we were told during the week that there will be change.

Nobody in Ireland will tell you that FF are without blame for the state we are in now. But they are only part of it. We have to remember that in the last 13 years or so, without the FF governments we had under Bertie and Brian, we would not have had the amount of good days we had.

Its time politions (local and national) from the opposition stood up and have the balls to admit the truth instead of spounting the same crap the whole time.

deisebob1

Deise Tom wrote: »

Nobody in Ireland will tell you that FF are without blame for the state we are in now. But they are only part of it. We have to remember that in the last 13 years or so, without the FF governments we had under Bertie and Brian, we would not have had the amount of good days we had.QUOTE]

Deise Tom you are undoubtedly a FF man and there is certainly nothing wrong with that, I have voted FF myself up until recently but to say that without FF governments over the last 13 years we wouldnt have had it as good is certainly not true. Any govenment that was in power would have presided over an enormous economic boom which started as early as 1996 when the rainbow government were in power. It is easy to run a country when things are going well, its when things get hard that the men are sorted out from the boys and that in my opinion is what is happening now. Obviously international factors are at play here but Our over reliance on the property sector, fueled by successive FF govenments (some of which I voted for because I thought things were great, why change it now?) coupled by poor regulation in the banking sector is what has us where we are unfortunately.

Could another government have done things differently... I believe they could. Would we have wanted them to at the time... i suspect not!

Smiley Burnett

Deise Tom wrote: »

Well said. There is an awful lot of smart arse people in this country who do not want to face up to facts. Too many people blame FF for all that is gone wrong but they are wrong, very wrong. (Just watch who i suspect is a FG councillor come in now and tell me i am talking like a true Fianna Failer or some other smart arse name). Are Fianna Fail responsible for what is happening right throughout the world. If you listen to some the answer would be yes. Since the World Wide recession kicked in, we have seen a change in America, there is going to be elections in the not too distant future in the UK and we are told we will see a change, there is regional elections in France this weekend (I think) and we were told during the week that there will be change.

Nobody in Ireland will tell you that FF are without blame for the state we are in now. But they are only part of it. We have to remember that in the last 13 years or so, without the FF governments we had under Bertie and Brian, we would not have had the amount of good days we had.

Its time politions (local and national) from the opposition stood up and have the balls to admit the truth instead of spounting the same crap the whole time.

the truth is that Fianna Fail allowed the banks loan money without any restrictions! Now that we are in trouble economically, the chickens are coming home to roost! You stated in an earlier post that you knew nothing about NAMA. well it's about time you found out about the implications of NAMA!! after all you and i will be paying for it for decades to come!! NO POINT BLAMING AN INTERNATIONAL RECESSION FOR THE NONSENSE AND BULL**** THAT WENT ON IN THIS COUNTRY.