First Time Buyer - Apartment

astrofool

seamus wrote: »

Amenities = things you can travel to on foot.

The likes of Belarmine, for example, have nothing within walking distance except country roads and more estates. Aikens village is so enormous, it's a ten minute walk just to get out the estate and than a 20 minute walk to the Luas, at a fast pace!

For a place to have "amenities" it should be possible to walk to a shop, a school and a pub within 15 minutes. *Everything* is within driving distance, so you can't use that to count nearby amenities.

We looked in there and reckoned the place was beautiful, but very poorly located if you had any reason to leave your house.

That's really stretching the meaning of local amenities, there's also parts of Sandyford that are right beside the amenities.

gurramok

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I don't count Sandyford as a good location! Way too far out and lacking in amenities.

There are empty apts across the road from me in the Docklands(Dublin northside & southside) that are dead central for most things!

faceman

OP, heres my 2c:

You need to consider your long term options. Consider that if you buy something, is it something that you are willing to live in long term and will it cater for your needs long term if circumstances had you there? By long term I mean 10/15 years and up.

Would you be able to rent it out or sell it should the need arise? (even if at a loss)

Out of curiousity, why are you going for a one bed? Could you stretch to a 2 bed? Its a better option.

Finally if you can hold off another while and are willing to then go for it. The market wont pick up in the short term and because you are a FTB, you hold all the power. If you are buying as a long term option however, holding out as long as possible to get the best price is probably not as worthwhile as it may sound, when you factor in the payment over the term of the mortgage and the money you are paying on rent.

Above all else, dont be hasty with your decision and best of luck with it!

jleavy

A lot of really interesting statements and comments here.

Being honest, I'm only at the planning stage right now - I dont really have my heart set on any location/place - I based a mortgage quote on the apt in Hyde Sq, D8.

Ideally, yes, of course a 2-bed would be sensible but I know that (at current market values) I would not be able to afford anything decent with secure parking.

Why now?
Well, I was thinking we were near the bottom of this dip - but thats just a gamble really - but also wanted to apply for a mortgage just to see how much i can get (147K miserable squid!) or if I could even get anything.

I figured there was no point looking really for places till I knew my budget - and now I do.

Regarding Sandyford:
I lived on Sandyford Rd Dundrum for 2.5 year and I totally loved it, M50, Luas, shopping centres.... but seriously... the prices out there are never gonna cum near my little hands.

Looking forward to meeting stepbar for a pint - but please stepbar, no mathematician equations.........

AARRRGH

jleavy wrote: »

A lot of really interesting statements and comments here.

Being honest, I'm only at the planning stage right now - I dont really have my heart set on any location/place - I based a mortgage quote on the apt in Hyde Sq, D8.

Ideally, yes, of course a 2-bed would be sensible but I know that (at current market values) I would not be able to afford anything decent with secure parking.

Why now?
Well, I was thinking we were near the bottom of this dip - but thats just a gamble really - but also wanted to apply for a mortgage just to see how much i can get (147K miserable squid!) or if I could even get anything.

I figured there was no point looking really for places till I knew my budget - and now I do.

Regarding Sandyford:
I lived on Sandyford Rd Dundrum for 2.5 year and I totally loved it, M50, Luas, shopping centres.... but seriously... the prices out there are never gonna cum near my little hands.

Looking forward to meeting stepbar for a pint - but please stepbar, no mathematician equations.........

We're not near the bottom.

We're still at the beginning of a slow, painful decline...

You can quote me on that in 5 years!

Idbatterim

How much will each 1% interest rate rise, either through the banks or ECB total? Given we have €66 Billion in mortgage debt? Jleavy, there are affordable homes being offered in Wyckham Point (Beside Dundrum town centre) for E192k for a 1 bed. 172k in Ballinteer & from 132k in Dublin 18. By the way my family home is in Churchtown, I now rent an apartment on the Sandyford Road, the location as you say is second to none. You are on top of Luas, M50, cinema, pubs, nightclubs, Dundrum shopping centre, Nutgrove shopping centre, aldi, lidl, a huge amount of schools, not too far from dublin mountains and coast, etc etc etc. When it comes to renting or buying again nowhere outside of the immediate Dundrum, Churchtown, Ballinteer, Sandyford area, will even come into the equation...

tHE vAGGABOND

You need to consider your long term options. Consider that if you buy something, is it something that you are willing to live in long term and will it cater for your needs long term if circumstances had you there? By long term I mean 10/15 years and up.

this is the key question...

I cant ever drive for medical reasons so I have a nice large apartment in town, and that suits me perfect as I'm walking distance to everything I need to be close to.

That situation may be a nightmare for some of you guys with family's or whatever - but its suits me. So the 'apartment owners are doomed' advice, while relevant to others, is not relevant to me.

You need to examine what your own situation is, and what you think it may be down the road. Dont pay too much heed to the armchair experts. They know next to zero about you or your own situation.

Jean_kelly

seamus wrote: »

jleavy,

You will find people with all sorts of opinions about property and the economy and some with more tempered opinions than others. ARRRRGH for example is the eternal pessimist and you won't find a single post from him over the last five years that doesn't say, "Ireland is fncked forever, pack up and run away". Other people have been saying here that a recovery is "imminent" since September 2008.

So when reading posts here, just bear in mind that everyone is appraising the situation from their own personal point of view. Someone who's in a tough industry or has just lost their job will tell you that everything is fncked and on the brink of collapse. Someone who's just gotten a raise will tell you that the Celtic Tiger is on the way back.

There are a few facts about buying property at the moment that very few people will disagree with:

1. Property prices will not rise by any appreciable amount in the medium-term (5 years).

2. Property prices are likely to continue to drop in the medium-term, especially outside of Dublin, and especially apartments.

3. Mortgage lending is much tighter at the moment, meaning that there are less buyers on the market with less cash to spend. This means that there is less competition for any particular property and it is *extremely* unlikely that you will end up in a bidding war.

4. Plan long-term. Don't even consider buying a property if you can't see yourself living there in ten years time. There's no point in buying somewhere that you'll have to sell in 3 years time at a loss.

Some general tips on house buying/house hunting:

- Get mortgage approval first. There's no point in wasting your time pounding the pavement only to find out that the bank won't give you anything.
- Maximise your budget. Look at places that are 10-25% above your budgeted price.
- Look at houses instead of apartments. We're in the middle of a baby boom which means that family-friendly homes will be given stability from an increased demand in 5 - 10 years time as current apartment owners outgrow their accomodation.
- If the EA starts telling you that a counter-offer is being made to trump yours, then walk away; There are thousands of other properties out there.
- Don't apologise for your offer - offer what you think is a reasonable price for the property, not what the EA tells you it's worth or what it says on myhome.ie. Remember that the seller should be glad that you're interested at all, you shouldn't be thankful for the priviledge of bidding on the house.
- It's a business transaction. Forget the other person and what their circumstances may be. Make your offer and stick by it. If they can't afford to sell to you at that price, they won't.

Can't go wrong with the above, I'd also treat new build / development prices as a guidline - make an offer - The EA may give some speel about recently reduced listing and a host of extras etc. - circumvent their commision orientated position by having 2 / 3 viewings of the property you think ticks all the boxes, get to know the other representatives from the agency, developer - not to sound rascist " but haggle like your in a market in turkey or the eastend" - if they know an approved buyer is walking away because 10k, 15k, or 20k can't be knocked off the advertised price - calls will be made and you will find someone higher up the chain can suddenly accomadate you, a cash offer / strict closing terms would be imposed so don't place yourself between a rock and a hard place - if your offer is accepted - ensure your approval is rock solid.
All normal proceedure applies viz a viz inspection / snagging / due dilagence - and a good solicitor (worth also shopping around for at the moment).
I run a property inspection / snag list company - for new builds and the majority of my customers since mid last year have been forgien nationals - dealing with agents and devlopers like they are buying an apartment at an auction and not the showhome -! - impressive cooperation when 2 freinds buy 2 units in the same devlopment at the same time, even bartering with me to inspect both homes on the same day for discount.

Some links in earlier posts about buying property - askaboutmoney etc. - read all these carefully, learn the basics, keep in mind they are relevant to a few years back so the playing pitch has changed somewhat - but the basic chain - do's and don't remain the same.
Our company would be glad to answer any questions you may have relating to property building / inspection / energy rating etc. - our advice is free and we expect no obligation to use us for your survey requirements - etc. - it is possibly the largest purchase your ever likely to make so advice / research is crucial and can pay dividends when you find your dream home - with all the central local / lifestyle boxes ticked also.
( sorry if I come across like a salesperson, but I'm a firm believer in the value of information & discussion online - the circle of help on these forums has gotten me out of many spots ! )
J. Kelly,
snagmyhome.com:rolleyes:

Caoimhín

About 18 months ago a secretary in my company was determined to buy an apartment in a large town in the south east of the country. She came out with the same argument as some have here, nattering on about having hit "the bottom" and that things couldn't get any worse. I think she must have been listening to the same auld guff from the likes of Tom Parlon and the estate agents.

I did everything i could to convince her otherwise but she simply had her heart set on buying a place, i think she was being pushed by her family too. In the end i offered her a sort of a bet. I promised that if she waited for a year and if the price of the apartment rose in value that i would give her the difference.

Since then the asking price for the apartments in the now half empty block have dropped by €100k. Im not trying to come across as a smartarse, but i do take some comfort in the fact that i saved that girl from a lifetime in debt and negative equity.

I would gladly offer the same thing to any friend of relative today.

jenny765

Caoimhín wrote: »

About 18 months ago a secretary in my company was determined to buy an apartment in a large town in the south east of the country. She came out with the same argument as some have here, nattering on about having hit "the bottom" and that things couldn't get any worse. I think she must have been listening to the same auld guff from the likes of Tom Parlon and the estate agents.

I did everything i could to convince her otherwise but she simply had her heart set on buying a place, i think she was being pushed by her family too. In the end i offered her a sort of a bet. I promised that if she waited for a year and if the price of the apartment rose in value that i would give her the difference.

Since then the asking price for the apartments in the now half empty block have dropped by €100k. Im not trying to come across as a smartarse, but i do take some comfort in the fact that i saved that girl from a lifetime in debt and negative equity.

I would gladly offer the same thing to any friend of relative today.

ok i want to buy the one bed in belarmine, just wondering your thoughts on this...... i need to stick to a budget, and would prefer not to rent anymore. do you think i should buy now and wait, but the longer i wait the older i get and the shorter the term available for the mortgage,
what should i do

gurramok

Wait, they will continue to fall in price. That shorter term is offset by a lower borrowing amount, think about it.

Heaven knows why you would want a 1bed unless its huge, humans need space.

bryaner

AARRRGH wrote: »

Haha you'd be surprised to know I am very optimistic about life!

I'm just a realist about the Irish economy. It is destroyed and will take decades to recover.

You need to forget all the nonsense that was said over the past few years about Ireland being wealthy or rich or successful. It was all a load of bull****. And the current crap in the newspapers about Ireland's debt being under control... more nonsense.

The "bottom" is probably a few years away, as people are still in denial about the economy and are hoping a new bubble will somehow magically reappear. Fortunately, it won't, so we're going to have a slow painful return to an 80's style economy.

I have nothing to gain from saying this stuff. I just can't see there being any other outcome with our current government's strategy of trying to drag out the pain for as long as possible.

No realistic person wants another bubble, just a decent growing economy!
but then again that is unlikely with you being another DOOM and GLOOMER
Keep talking it down and it will stay there

fontanalis

jenny765 wrote: »

ok i want to buy the one bed in belarmine, just wondering your thoughts on this...... i need to stick to a budget, and would prefer not to rent anymore. do you think i should buy now and wait, but the longer i wait the older i get and the shorter the term available for the mortgage,
what should i do

Why a one bed? Don't forget management fees, how much of a deposit have you (the longer you wait the more you save, smaller mortgage)? Can you move to a place with cheaper rent?

fontanalis

bryaner wrote: »

but then again that is unlikely with you being another DOOM and GLOOMER
Keep talking it down and it will stay there

Is it yourself?

bryaner

AARRRGH wrote: »

We're not near the bottom.

We're still at the beginning of a slow, painful decline...

You can quote me on that in 5 years!

Just get measured up for your box now save some time and money I hear funeral directors fees are going up!

bryaner

fontanalis wrote: »

Is it yourself?

Lol very good if only! but really doom and gloom only breeds doom and gloom

fontanalis

bryaner wrote: »

Just get measured up for your box now save some time and money I hear funeral directors fees are going up!

Why do you disagree with him, the country is saddled with debt on a scale never seen before. The 80's may have been bad but there was no debt.

fontanalis

bryaner wrote: »

Lol very good if only! but really doom and gloom only breeds doom and gloom

But realism has to come into it, everyone can sit down and watch Oprah and read The Secret and; but the amount of debt on a national and personal scale has to be taken into account, don't even start on the money squandered, if public services declined during the boom what do you think will happen now?

Arthurdaly

Were all these property experts around 5 years ago? And what were these people encouraging people to do then? I wonder where all these property experts were?

I reckon all the people talking about doom and gloom do not own a property? its pretty obvious they dont and they are sitting on nice little deposit waiting until the market has hit rock bottom and then with their expert knowledge they will buy precisely at the bottom.

As with any investment it is impossible to predict a bottom but all the experts here will advertise the reasons not to but to increase their own opportunties.

I dont own a property btw but I never understood the reasoning behind borrowing a huge amount of money to invest in property? Irish people are so limited in their views on investments. If someone said they were going to borrow 50,000 to invest in commodities they would be called crazy but it was the norm for the average joe binman to have a property porfolio in excesss of 1mil, crazy! Leveraged up and no idea about diversification.

ricman

theres 1 bed houses for sale in dublin city ,see http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?search=1&s[cc_id]=ct1&s[a_id]=ga2&s[mnp]=&s[mxp]=150000&s[bd_no]=&s[searc
under 150k,and there s no service charge for houses.
And you dont have to worry about someone making too much noise on the floor above you.Search DAFT.IE under 150k.

billybigunz

Lol at Bryaner. Talking ouselves into a recession, how quaint.

Have a read of this. The old Ireland is gone. €100,000 is now an awful lot of money when hardly anybody is working in a decent full time job. One bed apartments will be heading towards the 30K price.

http://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/2010/04/economics-6042010-qnhs-figures-of.html

gurramok

Arthurdaly wrote: »

Were all these property experts around 5 years ago? And what were these people encouraging people to do then? I wonder where all these property experts were?

Have you searched this forum on past posts by said posters before spouting out this rant?

D3PO

stepbar wrote: »

(800*12)/5%*100= 192k

What you've just described there is not yield. You've forgot to include expenses such as maintence and insurance etc. 10% of rent is usually a good guideline, however it's acknowledged that it could be more.

Based on that:

((800*12)*0.9)/5%*100= 172,800.



How in ever, the property you've described would have to be some sort of "prime" property, as no one in their right mind would willingly accept a yield of 5%.

dont forget periods of unoccupancy so should really be ((800*11) if your working out the yield

that also assumes rent at advertised price even though we know a lot of people are negotiating rent below the advertised prices so that yield is many miles form 5% im afraid.

billybigunz

Yield calcuations on one beds are distorted by artificially high rates thanks to the rental allowance.

The_Conductor

billybigunz wrote: »

Yield calcuations on one beds are distorted by artificially high rates thanks to the rental allowance.

I have to agree with this. Annecdotally- rents fell by almost identical amounts to the reductions in rent allowance in last years budget. Rent allowance is not even in direct correlation with the floor in rents in particular areas- it is the defacto floor in rents.

ricman

IF you buy an apartment for 140 ,in a years time it,ll prbly be worth 110k.
I reckon it would be cheaper to wait ,rent 4 a year.See what happens when
nama comes in to effect.Theres a large over supply of new 1bed apartments.

Bambi86

What are people's thoughts on rent 2 buy?

The_Conductor

Bambi86 wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on rent 2 buy?

I think its an amazing scheme for developers. It enables them to put together a credible business plan for their lending institutions- with legally binding cashflows that can be predicted for current cashflow and lumpsums down the road.

From the point of view of purchasers- the only way they can sell it to people is by reheating the 'rent-is-dead-money' argument. They 'sweeten' the deal by putting some sort of clause into the lease whereby despite the buyer/renter agreeing a price upfront- there may be some sort of discount if the value of the property falls between the date the agreement is signed, and the date the purchase comes due. This however would normally be tempered by a lack of clarity on what a fair market price entails- as normally there will also be a clause that the property cannot be resold for a certain period of time (or if very cheeky- until the developer has managed to offload his units). The 'rent' aspect of the scheme might be packaged to look like a 'deposit' for a lending institution- so that the buyer is encouraged to try for a 100% mortgage (or more likely- so the banks future valuation of the property and its ensuing impact on the purchasers borrowing capacity- are as close to the sums outlined in the developer's business plan submitted 2-3-4-5 years previous).


The big problem is you are agreeing to pay a price today for an asset that has only god knows what value at a future date. You will note that 'Rent-to-Buy' schemes did not exist in the upward market- as it suited developers to hang onto properties safe in the knowledge they were banking money. Now the only way they can bank their money is by generating a cashflow from the rental income of their assets.

You will note that the developers and the CIF have also petitioned the government and seperately the Department of the Environment to try to ensure that these 'rent-to-buy' properties are considered 'new' from a tax perspective, and a certificate of completion is not generated until the 'sale' date.........

Rent-to-buy is an exercise in psychology- nothing more, nothing less......

SoupyNorman

jleavy wrote: »

Why now?
Well, I was thinking we were near the bottom of this dip - but thats just a gamble really - but also wanted to apply for a mortgage just to see how much i can get (147K miserable squid!) or if I could even get anything.

Not even close. What do I base this on I hear you mutter? Leaving cert Economics is what my assumption is based on, yes there are many figures and equations and very in depth analysis at professional levels trying to predict the 'bottom'. However the simple fact is that Economics is not an exact science, similar to the stock market you cannot predict with 100% certainty what it will do but unlike the stock market changes take longer periods, months and years rather then NOW!!

And this 'NOW!!' trait is the what has people still buying property or indeed looking at least, the impatience of seeking the day the market has 'bottomed' has you reading news articles with the rose tinted glasses on.

While out walking with my girlfriend the other day we reminisced on a period in late 2007 where sought to buy (succumbing to the intense pressure to get on the property ladder before it was too late),a 100% mortgage would have been no problem as we both have solid jobs (shes in the bank) but to our great relief today, our better sense prevailed then and we said that 300k for a 2bed was too much. I have made some bad decisions in my life but that was not one of them. So to this day we continue to rent and we have never been so happy to pay rent, we'd be in a right hole today had we pursued property ownership then.

Whats my point...

Hold back OP, resist this crazy urge to own a property.As the great literary genius Tyler Durden put it "things you own end up owning you".

I do believe the worst is over in terms of steep price drops, the curve has softened slightly but it is still going down....DOWN, again just to be clear DOWN!!!!!!!! Price drops are not going to grind to a standstill overnight. I've commented on this before but the price rises took about 10 years from beginning to peak, a long period....similarly the bottom will take a long time (not 10 years I dont think) but a few years yet.

Renting, although not ideal and restrictive it does afford choice and flexibility. It insulates you from the market and with every passing month strengthens your position and purchasing power in the future. I'll admit that after 3 years I am sick of renting...I want a garden and be able to decorate myself but are my 'wants' worth €xx,xxx in negative equity just because I wanted something!

Renting now = smart choice.

Meself

great sense being spoken on this thread..im one of those people who considered buying last year... i'm so very glad i didn't... will be renting for another year or two and 'observing' the property market..