UEFA Champions League - Last 16

SDTimeout

What about last season also RE Drogba. Wasn't he on the verge of being sold by chelsea ?

CHD

SDTimeout wrote: »

What about last season also RE Drogba. Wasn't he on the verge of being sold by chelsea ?

Scolari didnt like him, he moaned, was injured alot. Standard stuff.

Jazzy

drogba (premier league)

07 - 08
appearances: 19
goals: 8

08 - 09
appearances: 24
goals: 5

09 - 10
appearances: 22
goals: 19


Ibra (spanish/italian league)

07 - 08
appearances: 26
goals: 17

08 - 09
appearances: 35
goals: 25

09 - 10
appearances: 19
goals: 12





so, would the idiots who were blabbering about just how much better drogba is stand up please? ive already said that yeah, i think drogba is maybe that bit better but with stats like these there is absolutely no possible way that you can say "drogba is in a different league to ibra as a player" unless of course you are unrealistic and make stuff up in your head, or... thick. simple as


oh hang on, ppl are going to convince themselves with a big gulf in the standard of the leagues... ok so.
Hull, wolves, fulham, bolton, wigan are some of the teams hes scored against this season. its not like they are in a different class to seira teams. ibra has scored against madrid, athletico, deportivo this season. (and yes, i know drogba has put 4 past arsenal too ) but you see the point im making here? there is no gulf between the 2 players as some people like to think. thats make believe

CHD

eZe^ wrote: »

Ibrahimovic;

Ajax, played there for 4 seasons, won 2 league titles.

Juventus, played there for 2 seasons, won 2 league titles.

Inter, played there for 3 seasons, won 3 league titles.

That's all before he signed for Barca. Guess it was him fluking all those years too.

Capello has gone on record and said that Ibrahimovic is the best striker in the world, and can go on to be as good as Van Basten. So there's one world class manager who disagrees.

Still think he is overrated. He has achieved alot and does a good job but he is not world class and there is a good few better strikers in Europe.

flahavaj

CHD wrote: »

Scolari didnt like him, he moaned, was injured alot. Standard stuff.

I think this is where we need to use the "when he's in the mood" line. Gobsmacked it hasn't been used yet.:pac:

dreamers75

Jazzy wrote: »

so, would the idiots who were blabbering about just how much better drogba is stand up please? ive already said that yeah, i think drogba is maybe that bit better but with stats like these there is absolutely no possible way that you can say "drogba is in a different league to ibra as a player" unless of course you are unrealistic and make stuff up in your head, or... thick. simple as

or they actually notice a player is on the pitch?

"**** ibra scored when did he come on" a common question among football fans.

Not a Drogba fan myself but he suits a style of play, Ibra is a massive luxury they type you play beside your number 9, barca should have signed a proper number 9.

CHD

flahavaj wrote: »

I think this is where we need to use the "when he's in the mood" line. Gobsmacked it hasn't been used yet.:pac:

I don't agree with that. He can still do it when not in the mood. When his manager isn't telling him he is the best ever he plays badly.

flahavaj

Jazzy wrote: »

drogba (premier league)

07 - 08
appearances: 19
goals: 8

08 - 09
appearances: 24
goals: 5

09 - 10
appearances: 22
goals: 19


Ibra (spanish/italian league)

07 - 08
appearances: 26
goals: 17

08 - 09
appearances: 35
goals: 25

09 - 10
appearances: 19
goals: 12





so, would the idiots who were blabbering about just how much better drogba is stand up please? ive already said that yeah, i think drogba is maybe that bit better but with stats like these there is absolutely no possible way that you can say "drogba is in a different league to ibra as a player" unless of course you are unrealistic and make stuff up in your head, or... thick. simple as

Got any stats on goals scored in the knock out stage of the CL?

flahavaj

CHD wrote: »

I don't agree with that. He can still do it when not in the mood. When his manager isn't telling him he is the best ever he plays badly.

Arra I'm only joking, just always seemed to get said by someone when Drogba is being discussed.:pac:

SDTimeout

Personally Ibra was a great signing for Barca. If you compare him to RVP in a way that in the 4-3-3 the two wingers bomb forward and he sits back around the edge of the box. Where when attacking he drops and the two spread and he can distribute. That's why Ibra is so good for barca at least that's where i'd use him any la liga fanatics please correct me if im wrong.

greendom

They are both fantastic players, I don't think there's any doubt of that.

Their relative records in Europe are quite interesting

Ibra has 20 goals in 72 appearances

Drogba 37 in 68.

Think Didier has a bit more sang-froid than Zlatan

Jazzy

flahavaj wrote: »

Got any stats on goals scored in the knock out stage of the CL?

haha, i imagine f-all. hmm, 1 tonight? cant think of any others. but tell me, if berba had those sort of stats in the league for utd, would you want him dropped in the CL? its to do with how your team plays and their consistency. working as a unit and winning matches. you dont drop simply because one competition you might have poor stats on one of your 11 players

dreamers75

SDTimeout wrote: »

Personally Ibra was a great signing for Barca. If you compare him to RVP in a way that in the 4-3-3 the two wingers bomb forward and he sits back around the edge of the box. Where when attacking he drops and the two spread and he can distribute. That's why Ibra is so good for barca at least that's where i'd use him any la liga fanatics please correct me if im wrong.

Why compare him to a "dutch" Wing forward ? he was signed as a number 9.

Barca play a system that is bascially 451 without the ball, 253 with the ball. They play wide players on their opposite foot so when the fullback overlaps the player with the ball has 2 options. The middle is a workhorse and 2 technically gifted playmakers.

Their perfect goal is a about 67 passes culminating in a wide player receiving the ball on his wrong foot cutting inside and squaring it to the number 9 to sidefoot home. Sadly Ibra tends to drift out left and Messi has scored an awful of goals on his lonesome. he cuts out the number 9 that Eto was and tries to magic up a goal.

cson

dreamers75 wrote: »

Why compare him to a "dutch" Wing forward ?

When did RVP start playing Gaelic Football? Have the Dubs signed him up?

dreamers75

cson wrote: »

When did RVP start playing Gaelic Football? Have the Dubs signed him up?

lol

RVP is a wing forward, go watch some dutch football and try understand the position.

SDTimeout

Why is dutch in " " marks.... you musn't like them

Why don't you watch some english football and see RVP has changed his role to the center striker position of a 4 3 3 or 4 5 1 in Europe.

cson

dreamers75 wrote: »

lol

RVP is a wing forward, go watch some dutch football and try understand the position.

Go watch some Dutch football? I thought RVP played for Arsenal before the Dubs signed him up.

FYI; he plays as the focal point of attack for both Arsenal and the Netherlands.

dreamers75

SDTimeout wrote: »

Why is dutch in " " marks.... you musn't like them

Why don't you watch some english football and see RVP has changed his role to the center striker position of a 4 3 3 or 4 5 1 in Europe.

hheeheh funny post.

cson wrote: »

Go watch some Dutch football? I thought RVP played for Arsenal before the Dubs signed him up.

FYI; he plays as the focal point of attack for both Arsenal and the Netherlands.

Huntelaar/RVN (cmon RVN) will the focal point of the dutch team in the WC with RVP (if fit) and Babel/Kuyt playing alongside them. His natural position is LWF he is perfect for it.

Dutch play a number 9 system oddly barca play it too but the dutch subsitute the playmakers for ballwinners. pretty much ended their hopes of winning 08 and 06.

SDTimeout

dreamers75 wrote: »

hheeheh funny post.



Huntelaar/RVN (cmon RVN) will the focal point of the dutch team in the WC with RVP (if fit) and Babel/Kuyt playing alongside them. His natural position is LWF he is perfect for it.

Dutch play a number 9 system oddly barca play it too but the dutch subsitute the playmakers for ballwinners. pretty much ended their hopes of winning 08 and 06.

Please don't undermine me, i think you're wrong so i'm challenging you on the point. RVP has not played as a wing based striker for a long time. Yes he DID ala goal against blackburn arsenal fans will remember. But maybe if you watched some "english" football you would see until his injury and for alot of last season when fit Robin Van Persie plays down the middle now as he has changed his game. As for the WC i think you're wrong again Huntelaar nor RVN have given any reason as to why they should be picked in the CF ( Focal point ) of the dutch attacking line
Hunt has 15 apps and 5 goals.
RVN not even included in the squad to face united states
and what would babel be in your team for. Merit ?

Also regarding your point about barca signing him as a number 9. That may have been his previous position but any club is allowed to mould or change a player into their system. Donnovan as a winger , Babel as a winger , Theirry Henry as a striker , Arshavin as a midfield linkman as opposed to playing off a high striker.

cson

Thank you for that insight on tactics Bert van Marwijk. You might tell Arsene Wenger his natural position is LWF, whatever that means. Y'know, might as well have him playing in his best position and all that. :rolleyes:

flahavaj

Jazzy wrote: »

haha, i imagine f-all. hmm, 1 tonight? cant think of any others. but tell me, if berba had those sort of stats in the league for utd, would you want him dropped in the CL? its to do with how your team plays and their consistency. working as a unit and winning matches. you dont drop simply because one competition you might have poor stats on one of your 11 players

No one's saying Ibra should be dropped.

But if Berba had those league stats in the league and those CL stats I'd be asking serious questions as to why he was constantly failing on the big stage.

Cantona would be a far more apt example, unreal in the domestic game but always underperformed in Europe. Quite rightly thats a black mark against his name when comparing his career as a footballer to others who have done the business on such a stage.

SDTimeout

cson wrote: »

Thank you for that insight on tactics Bert van Marwijk. You might tell Arsene Wenger his natural position is LWF, whatever that means. Y'know, might as well have him playing in his best position and all that. :rolleyes:

By his logic i think diaby is a LCMFW - Left Center Midfield Winger

God knows what Arshavin is

LCAMRSTCFGOD ?

cson

flahavaj wrote: »

No one's saying Ibra should be dropped.

But if Berba had those league stats in the league and those CL stats I'd be asking serious questions as to why he was constantly failing on the big stage.

Cantona would be a far more apt example, unreal in the domestic game but always underperformed in Europe. Quite rightly thats a black mark against his name when comparing his career as a footballer to others who have done the business on such a stage.

As a defence to him; he has played the majority of those games for Italian teams who were on a serious decline from their previous perch. He arguably wouldn't have had the same calibre of player around him at Juve/Inter as Berbatov does at United.

He has no excuses now with Barcelona though.

As an aside; Hleb sticking it to his former club tonight. Top performance.

dreamers75

cson wrote: »

Thank you for that insight on tactics Bert van Marwijk. You might tell Arsene Wenger his natural position is LWF, whatever that means. Y'know, might as well have him playing in his best position and all that. :rolleyes:

No problem whenever you figure out what an LWF is and have an insightful reply please reply. I await your tactical insight with baited breath.

SDTimeout wrote: »

Please don't undermine me, i think you're wrong so i'm challenging you on the point. RVP has not played as a wing based striker for a long time. Yes he DID ala goal against blackburn arsenal fans will remember. But maybe if you watched some "english" football you would see until his injury and for alot of last season when fit Robin Van Persie plays down the middle now as he has changed his game. As for the WC i think you're wrong again Huntelaar nor RVN have given any reason as to why they should be picked in the CF ( Focal point ) of the dutch attacking line
Hunt has 15 apps and 5 goals.
RVN not even included in the squad to face united states
and what would babel be in your team for. Merit ?

Also regarding your point about barca signing him as a number 9. That may have been his previous position but any club is allowed to mould or change a player into their system. Donnovan as a winger , Babel as a winger , Theirry Henry as a striker , Arshavin as a midfield linkman as opposed to playing off a high striker.

No chance RVP will be the focal point of any attack, hes a winger that doesnt defend the actual position is LWF (dont tell cson ) he is perfect for it. And he will play there for Holland assuming he is fit.

JPA

dreamers75 wrote: »

No problem whenever you figure out what an LWF is and have an insightful reply please reply. I await your tactical insight with baited breath.




No chance RVP will be the focal point of any attack, hes a winger that doesnt defend the actual position is LWF (dont tell cson ) he is perfect for it. And he will play there for Holland assuming he is fit.

Just to chime in, RVP doesn't play as a LWF anymore and won't play there for Holland either if fit. Robben and Kuyt will likely be the support.

cson

dreamers75 wrote: »

No problem whenever you figure out what an LWF is and have an insightful reply please reply. I await your tactical insight with baited breath.




No chance RVP will be the focal point of any attack, hes a winger that doesnt defend the actual position is LWF (dont tell cson ) he is perfect for it. And he will play there for Holland assuming he is fit.

This LWF **** again.

Ok, read this carefully; Football Manager is not the same as real life.

kryogen

why are people arguing about whether there is a position called LWF?

there is, there is also RWF, not exactly used too much in the EPL though

Barca use it now, Henry is a LWF type player for example but the modern game is so fluid and players move around so much they are just easier to be called defence, midfield, forward

the arguements on here sometimes are just bizarre

(i have had a couple to drink, and if i have the wrong end of the stick i am happy to plough ahead with it anyway)

eZe^

cson wrote: »

As an aside; Hleb sticking it to his former club tonight. Top performance.

He still is a Barcelona player mate, it's just a loan deal. Still too afraid to shoot, and still wears toddlers size socks. Haha. He did play well though.

kryogen

after glancing through this thread a few points come to mind

I am a massive fan of Drogba, but to say he is on another level to Ibra is just ridiculous, its ok to not like Ibra or not see what every manager who has signed him and continue to play him sees, but he is the definition of world class and just like so many things in football no amount of goals, great performances or shockers will change anyones mind

Another thing, when the **** did goals in the KO stage of the champions league define a players credentials? amusing as it is it can be torn apart if necessary

he has played in declining Italian teams for the last few years and he has often had to be provider rather then finisher


how many goals does Rooney have in the KO stages of the Champions League? is he worth his place in the team anyway?

Ibra is another player who just divides people, i would hope that people critisizing him actually watch him more then a couple of times a year and listening to sky bull**** before forming an opinion

he has set records this season for Barca in La Liga and has been in good form up till January, he is showing signs of returning to proper form now

Frisbee

dreamers75 wrote: »

No chance RVP will be the focal point of any attack,

Except for every game he played for Arsenal this year where he scored 7 goals in 11 appearances.

Last year Robin and Adebayor led the line together, except when we went to a defensive 4-5-1 (away games in Europe for example) where RVP was dropped for Ade. which is reasonable enough as Adebayor is bigger, stronger and more capable of holding the ball up and not having it come back on top of us constantly.

This year since we've switched to the 4-3-3 RVP was, up until his injury, the focal point of the Arsenal attack and was scoring goals at a rate that would currently have him up there with Rooney and Drogba for PL top scorer. RVP is the complete forward, he offers you reasonable amounts of pace and strength, good height and has a howitzer of a left peg.

To play him out on the left wing and have either RVN or Huntelaar, one who is over the hill, more injury prone than RVP and had to move clubs in January to get a game and the other who can't get a game for an aging Milan side and couldn't get a game for his previous club either is ridiculous.

kryogen

RVN season stats


Games Started: 0
Sub Apps: 5
Goals: 3
Assists: 1

Not that bad really, worth a place in most squads tbh, if it wasnt a WC year hed still be at Real

2 sub apps for them, 1 goal, 1 assist

3 sub apps for Hamburg 2 goals (2 in 2 in the league)

im sure they are happy

Dont be at yourself

Completely futile discussion, comparing which player is better. Nobody will be convinced by anything other than their own judgement.

Anyway, was amazed by Stuttgart last night. They looked excellent going forward, and completely walked through Barca's midfield and defence. The Barca players were shellshocked during the first half. Cacau could have had a hat-trick.

In the end, Stuttgart paid dearly for not taking their chances, and they've got an almost impossible task ahead of them in the return leg.

kryogen

just shows how no matter how good a team is at ball retention and passing, if you get amongst them and give them no time to think you will have success, Stuttgart really did the first poart well, but they have paid for not capitalising

deisedevil

Frisbee wrote: »

To play him out on the left wing and have either RVN or Huntelaar, one who is over the hill, more injury prone than RVP and had to move clubs in January to get a game and the other who can't get a game for an aging Milan side and couldn't get a game for his previous club either is ridiculous.

RVN aint over the hill yet, he's a goal machine and if he can stay injury free for a while he'll still bang in the goals.

Was just gonna post his stats but can see Kryogen already has.

redout

CHD

Need to fix that redout

redout

CHD wrote: »

Need to fix that redout

Dunno what happened.

The picture looks normal on my computer but the upload went bogey!

Bodhisopha

Honda has a great engine.

eZe^

Be interesting to see if Sevilla can get through this tie unscathed. They're a better team, but I think they'd be better pitted up against the likes of Chelsea/ United than a CSKA Moscow/ Olympiacos. 2nd best so far.

redout

That little asian bloke aint half bad

CHD

eZe^ wrote: »

Be interesting to see if Sevilla can get through this tie unscathed. They're a better team, but I think they'd be better pitted up against the likes of Chelsea/ United than a CSKA Moscow/ Olympiacos. 2nd best so far.

You think Sevilla are better off facing a team that was the better team -v- CSKA in the group stages?

Necronomicon

Is Fabiano injured?

greendom

kryogen wrote: »

why are people arguing about whether there is a position called LWF?

there is, there is also RWF, not exactly used too much in the EPL though

Barca use it now, Henry is a LWF type player for example but the modern game is so fluid and players move around so much they are just easier to be called defence, midfield, forward

the arguements on here sometimes are just bizarre

(i have had a couple to drink, and if i have the wrong end of the stick i am happy to plough ahead with it anyway)

What's the difference between a LWF and an RWF and a left and right winger I would use the latter 2, the 2 former sound like they come from someone talking about soccer rather than football

eZe^

CHD wrote: »

You think Sevilla are better off facing a team that was the better team -v- CSKA in the group stages?

Mhmmm, Sevilla love being underdogs and springing surprise results against the big guns in football. I'd fancy their chances more against someone like Chelsea than I would a 2nd tier team like Lyon. Didn't think it'd be that surprising, Munster loved being underdogs back in the day too.

Bodhisopha

greendom wrote: »

What's the difference between a LWF and an RWF and a left and right winger I would use the latter 2, the 2 former sound like they come from someone talking about soccer rather than football

LWF and RWF are usually part of an attacking trio.

deisedevil

greendom wrote: »

What's the difference between a LWF and an RWF and a left and right winger I would use the latter 2, the 2 former sound like they come from someone talking about soccer rather than football

Google lwf + rwf, seems like abbreviations that are used on Pro Evo.

CHD

eZe^ wrote: »

Mhmmm, Sevilla love being underdogs and springing surprise results against the big guns in football. I'd fancy their chances more against someone like Chelsea than I would a 2nd tier team like Lyon. Didn't think it'd be that surprising, Munster loved being underdogs back in the day too.

MIght like being underdogs but they are getting knocked out by Chelsea and United 9/10. They go the perfect draw imo.

eZe^

What a vital goal for Sevilla! Navas really HAS to start for Spain if he has truly gotten over his homesickness. Such a good winger to have. Him and Mata will give Spain width at the WC.


Btw, anyone get pissed off at the commentator giving out about Navas' acute homesickness. Saying he should just get over it and get on with his job, as if he was just being a drama queen. He used to get horrible panic attacks, it was a psychological disorder, it's not as if he just loves his mothers paella too much ffs....

CHD wrote: »

MIght like being underdogs but they are getting knocked out by Chelsea and United 9/10. They go the perfect draw imo.

Disagree, they are the kind of team who thorougly outplay and beat Real Madrid/ Barca one week, and then go get battered at Valladolid the next. They relish being underdogs, and could definitely knock out Chelsea or Man United if they played to their potential.

deisedevil

eZe^ wrote: »

They relish being underdogs, and could definitely knock out Chelsea or Man United if they played to their potential.

But what if United or Chelsea play to their potential?

dreamers75

eZe^ wrote: »

Disagree, they are the kind of team who thorougly outplay and beat Real Madrid/ Barca one week, and then go get battered at Valladolid the next.

+1