starting a suckler herd

tismesoitis

wel lads just readin the thread "starting a dairy farm". we are wel on our way in the exact opposite direction about 3 yrs ago sold out d milking herd with a view to getting into sucklers. at this stage we have between 50 and 60 cows with calves at foot aiming to get to over 100 in 3 yrs time. first of all we don't know ourselves since gettin out of milk not if it was 20 euro per litre would we go back. in my opinion at the moment the whole beef job looks to be the sector with the brightest future. i know some of u wil think we were mad for gettin out of milk but would like to hear some opinions on this move. we are selling calves as weanlings pushin them hard from day one. so far we think we wil b able to make as much out of it as milking with less time commitments. let us know what u think.

pakalasa

Well a lot of the skills of dairying carry over to suckling anyway, looking after cows and all that.
What kind of cows do you have?
Are you using a bull or AI?
Do you find them hard to get back in calf compared to the dairy cows?

tismesoitis

100% ai DIY bb on everything after 1st calf edj fhz sfl and byu. cows are all 1st cross lim and sim off holstein or british friesian. All heifers served to lim REQ and tanko last year using fl22 and ion this year. we lucky the place is well set up as far as handling facilities and paddocks. conception running at about 75% to first service but never used as many cidrs in all my life at least their working,most cows will calve again within a year of the last calf theres always a few exceptions. what kinda system u doin and most importantly am i joking meself or IS there a few quid to be made when its done right???

mossfort

tismesoitis wrote: »

100% ai DIY bb on everything after 1st calf edj fhz sfl and byu. cows are all 1st cross lim and sim off holstein or british friesian. All heifers served to lim REQ and tanko last year using fl22 and ion this year. we lucky the place is well set up as far as handling facilities and paddocks. conception running at about 75% to first service but never used as many cidrs in all my life at least their working,most cows will calve again within a year of the last calf theres always a few exceptions. what kinda system u doin and most importantly am i joking meself or IS there a few quid to be made when its done right???

do you find the 1st cross cows off the holstien and bf to be a bit plain .are they producing u grade calves?
do you keep any of the heifer calves as replacements?

tismesoitis

ye some abit plain but floods of milk and maybe not all lim calves u grade but definatly all blues u and better! we keepin all lim heifers for the next few years to push up numbers.

pakalasa

I am using all AI myself also. Started suckling 3 years ago. Only 15 cows and I work off-farm, so tend to go with easy calving AI bulls.
Interested to learn how you find the CIDRs, What does the cost work out at?
Can they be used to bring on heat after calving or are they only good for bringing forward cows already cycling (ie synhronisation)?

The 2 biggest problems I have are keeping milk in the replacement heifers (all my cows are very beefy) and getting them back in calf.
Wonder if CIDRs woudl help me with that.:)

leg wax

i got out of dairying as well and would not go back for any money, no work with sucklers compared to milking. a low cost dairy set up with 1000-1200 gallon cows is no better of than suckler herd producing for export market, but suckler herd wins hands down when farmer pays himself for every hour he works because their is very little work as most dairy farmers who turn into suckling have good facilitys

tismesoitis

yea we find cidrs a very important tool in gettin them back incalf. as soon as a cow is 8 weeks calved we lob i one,works prob 70 or 80% of the time and conception there after is sound. there's always the odd bitch that just won't come round... vet handled one a while back sez her ovaries are inactive and needs time,shes just a 1st calver so we,l b patient but if she plays up again next year she'l get gate!!! cost of them is about €10 each but we use them twice no bother and a shot of estrumate is about €7 so roughly €12 well pays for itself. Have to say LegWax is spot on with everything he sez there!!! could'nt agree more. to be honest kinda feel sorry for them guys in d other thread who are gettin into cows. They don't know what they gettin themselves into!!!!!!!! By the way legwax sounds like you aimin at export market....what bulls u usin????

lifelover2006

what is a Cidrs. what does it do. how much it cost etc

leg wax

i like to try many different blue bulls, edj great muscle but they dont grow ,ovo big calves with growth,ezn some great calves but straws 25€ ,s526 small when born but fill out on the meal before sale, byu at the price of 8€ great stock best value,have a blonde heifer due now to sfl interested to see what she will have shes not that big in size,have put s659 and fhz in some cows over the winter. i will use byu a lot more of the time in the future. what do you use tismesoitis

pakalasa

CIDR - it's a drug delivery device that's inserted into a cow and then removed after 7 days. It helps bring on heat.

Here's the video -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBqwcyeuRKM

tismesoitis

this year we have calves on the ground by edj and jok and sri. agree with u on edj over all good but bit of a mixed bag. jok so far the best blue we have used unfortunatly can't b got any more(i hear pedigree breeders were payin €50 per straw when he was scarce. sri better bulls than heifers but slightly better than edj. cows in calf and being served to edj sfl fhz and byu. bought sfl for repeats got 40 for €8 each and got 15 free!!! leaves them very cheap just hopes hes good still have about 40 straws in tank...Did u hear any reports????? fhz and byu are new to me great to hear byu given good calves ,how'd u find him for calving??

leg wax

the bulls are big, we had the biggest calf ever born alive on this farm last oct, and the good thing is he is still growing he will be 500kgs+ in oct all going well, i have about 75% heifer calves this year,hope the french dont flood the market with females this year.

jfh

Hi tismesoitis, you get the Cidr's cheaper than me, i paid 14 euros, you mentioned you use them twice. i didn't realise they could be used twice. how long can you keep them after first using them? thanks

F.D

leg wax wrote: »

i got out of dairying as well and would not go back for any money, no work with sucklers compared to milking. a low cost dairy set up with 1000-1200 gallon cows is no better of than suckler herd producing for export market, but suckler herd wins hands down when farmer pays himself for every hour he works because their is very little work as most dairy farmers who turn into suckling have good facilitys

Hi Lex Wax do you mind me asking what scale you were in miliking at
No of cows, size of parlour, how long was milking taken etc. before you changed to sucklers

tismesoitis

wel jfh we remove them then wash them off let them dry and then store them in a paper bag. longest we've left them was only about 6 or 8 weeks and worked ok.

leg wax

70,000 quota 40 cows , only 35 acres around parlour, milked 7 cows at a time, could not expand if i wanted to with land base, but suckling different have 80 cows at moment and growing.

jfh

tismesoitis,very useful info, will try that myself, thanks.put a Prid in last week, vet advised leave it in 12 days. you're crossing blues with Lim, sounds good, do you have a preference for the breed of dam, any opinions on salers, lot of talk about them

F.D

Thanks Leg wax, just wondering if you had room to expand would you have stayed in milk, i know the drudgery of milking was a reason also, another thing how do you find the sucklers to handle when you do have to, i know you have the facilitys but i know a few neighbours and relations of mine have, maybe not got the best of set ups but the animals seem highly strung and hard to get in for dosing, testing etc, maybe its down to the breed or the farmer. it was always one think that turned me off them been honest

leg wax

no as soon as quotas were going i was out the door and i could sell the milk quota, i still held on to 100 gallons and dont talk about the trouble that has caused[ my milk manger a pain in the] when it comes to filling it every year. i have mostly blonde cows and they are quite dosile, but and a big but no 190 a black blonde cross out of a pied, wow when she has a calf stay away, she came in the back window of the tractor 2 years ago when i was trying to get her out of the shed with the tractor her stupid calf would not follow her out and went in under the tractor so i could not turn or move, some smell in the cab that day and it was not cow **** i can tell you.

Indubitable

I think you were right to get out of dairy. Milk prices are so low its shocking. The suckling trade isn't much better in my opinion and looking at recent figures, I think sheep is the farming sector with the brightest future.

Indubitable

leg wax wrote: »

no as soon as quotas were going i was out the door and i could sell the milk quota, i still held on to 100 gallons and dont talk about the trouble that has caused[ my milk manger a pain in the] when it comes to filling it every year. i have mostly blonde cows and they are quite dosile, but and a big but no 190 a black blonde cross out of a pied, wow when she has a calf stay away, she came in the back window of the tractor 2 years ago when i was trying to get her out of the shed with the tractor her stupid calf would not follow her out and went in under the tractor so i could not turn or move, some smell in the cab that day and it was not cow **** i can tell you.

I agree with you when you say blonde cattle are quite docile and they are in very high demand for export to the italian market. The crosses make great cows, nicely shaped calves and easy calving.

John_F

kingofthe3rdyrs wrote: »

I think you were right to get out of dairy. Milk prices are so low its shocking. The suckling trade isn't much better in my opinion and looking at recent figures, I think sheep is the farming sector with the brightest future.

think back to 2006/7... poor sheep prices, poor beef prices and good milk prices, its all cycles,,,, supply and demand

Indubitable

The beef sector seems to be controlled by the factories at the moment

tismesoitis

jfh wrote: »

tismesoitis,very useful info, will try that myself, thanks.put a Prid in last week, vet advised leave it in 12 days. you're crossing blues with Lim, sounds good, do you have a preference for the breed of dam, any opinions on salers, lot of talk about them

preferance would be towards simmental but we breed most of our replacements out of heifers so easy calving limo is the way we go. does anyone know where i can get my hands on an easy calving simmental with good maternal traits?????? yea jfh a lot of talk about saler most of what i hear is not good very wild but calve easy. lim have a very bad reputation but i think at this stage its mostly reputation now, its a long time since we had a crazy one but if and when we do she'l get one way ticket. whats your preferance of dam??

Indubitable

tismesoitis wrote: »

preferance would be towards simmental but we breed most of our replacements out of heifers so easy calving limo is the way we go. does anyone know where i can get my hands on an easy calving simmental with good maternal traits?????? yea jfh a lot of talk about saler most of what i hear is not good very wild but calve easy. lim have a very bad reputation but i think at this stage its mostly reputation now, its a long time since we had a crazy one but if and when we do she'l get one way ticket. whats your preferance of dam??

Buy simmental cattle that are sired from AI bulls that have a high score for daughters calving and maternal traits or alternatively breed some cows with an easy calving simmental with maternal traits.

Calving shouldn't be too much of an issue (unless you have purebred BB or culard charolais) as long as good measures pre-calving are taken. when my uncle had belgian blue cattle and a charolais bull, it was hard calving but he put the cows on straw just over a fortnight before they calve and problems weren't very common, he never needed a calf taken out the side